3dender

In your shoes I would probably go to UW and work my tail off to forge connections in DC and NYC while I was there. You can let career services know from the outset that this is your plan and then stay on them to help you out. It's their job to do so, and in their best long-term interest to get their students what they want. So this would be the best of all worlds: cheapness in the short-term, and you can end up back in a big city pretty easily after two years.

Nevermind, I PMed you.

My thought, given your "vague ideas about. . . career goals," is that you should go with the more generalist program at Berkeley, which will give you broader training across policy areas and set you up better for domestic work (especially in CA, where the Goldman name weighs significantly more than Fletcher). Its broader scope could even reveal a new area of interest to you that you hadn't previously considered. At the same time, even though it will cost more effort than at Fletcher, you should still be able to forge connections abroad, given both your work experience and the quality of faculty/staff at Goldman. All of those points, combined with the significant savings of going to Goldman, makes it a better choice IMO. I would also recommend that you start thinking now, in earnest, about what and where you want to do. What area of policy most fascinates you? What type of work will give your life meaning and fulfillment? These are a couple of the questions that can help distill your true desires.

I think she meant to say a step below HKS?

My (inexpert) impression is that Harris is on the level of HKS and WWS in terms of brand strength. Sanford and Goldman are a step below (though I think the Goldman name isn't as useful on the east coast and I'm skeptical of its strength internationally). Internationally speaking, if that's where you want to work, I think Harris is either alongside or a short step behind HKS/WWS, with Sanford/Goldman on a distinctly lower tier. You may want to ask more knowledgeable people about Sanford's international strength (for instance on the Admitted Students' FB page, or PMing current students on GradCafe who have replied on the Sanford thread in the "Government Affairs" forum). It's a smaller program but as you know from the Open House their network is exceptional, and it is quite possible they have a significant number of alumni working in Europe, including at the organizations you're targeting. Lastly, when considering price, don't forget to factor in cost of living. Chicago will be at least twice as expensive as Durham. You also might consider posting this in the "Government Affairs" forum.

Sounds like you want to go to Wagner. They say you shouldn't take out more debt than one year's salary at the job you'll get out of school. By that standard $60k isn't too much. Go with your gut.

Can you give more details about what you liked about Goldman's event? I wasn't able to attend.

My understanding is that the GSIs at Berkeley cover about 40% of tuition for out-of-state students, so I'm not sure how that works out to most/all tuition. I highly recommend talking to current students or reading through the Goldman thread to get a better idea of the reality of obtaining a GSI. I know that many students are desiring one, so it may be more competitive than this woman is letting on. Here's the Goldman thread.

The most basic consideration would be whether you want experience in DC or not. Do future plans involve DC/east coast? If so, Maryland is the obvious choice. I believe they are having an event in a couple of days, which would be good to attend for more info. I think I've heard that the UCSD program is newer, and that they appear to be putting a lot of resources there. That said, I got a generous offer from Maryland SPP, so they clearly have resources as well.

My guess: it's the one program geared toward mid-career professionals.

I agree that your 2nd concern under Humphries looks like a dealbreaker.

FYI: this thread is from 2010.

That's a good rundown. I'm speaking as someone who has just decided on Sanford (after their wonderful Open House last Friday). Here's some thoughts in list form: -I would say you have underestimated McCourt's reputation -- everyone I've talked to considers it the best of the DC schools. Also, they have agreements with GWU and American which let students take classes between schools. -Would your international status allow you to intern in DC? My understanding is that this is the route a lot of students take in order to get experience, even if they can't get paying jobs. -For SIPA, you really have to consider program fit. All the int'l reputation in the world doesn't, IMO, compensate for a miserable, directionless grad experience. Are you able to attend any Open Houses or virtual events? I would definitely get in touch with current/former students beyond those at gradcafe, in order to either confirm or rebut your impressions here. -I share most of your impressions about Sanford. I can tell you that there was a healthy focus across concentrations at the Open House, with sizable factions interested in Int'l Development and/or Nat'l Security. But you're correct that there are lots of Education and Health folks, which makes sense given Sanford's reputation in these areas. I myself have sort of a niche interest (political reform), but was able to find faculty/courses there that will nurture it. -As far as location, I already live near Durham so I can tell you all about the area if you want to PM me. I'll say here that you shouldn't really consider Durham by itself, but rather as part of the Research Triangle which includes Chapel Hill and Raleigh (it's 20 minutes from each). In that sense there's a lot to do, though it's definitely not as metropolitan as either DC or NYC. But on the other hand, outdoors activities and green space are much more accessible here. -Finally, you didn't mention WHERE you think you want to do your policy work after graduation, and that is one of the most important factors in this decision. Do you want to stay in the States? In DC? Do you plan to move back to your country? If you want to work internationally then SIPA makes a lot of sense, and my impression is that Sanford has the weakest int'l reputation of the three. If you want to stay in the States, however, SIPA is probably the least useful, with Sanford and McCourt probably being on par. Even if you want to stay in DC, Sanford's network there is strong and doesn't lag too far behind McCourt. Of course the latter would give you much more practical experience and connections there. . . Hope this helps!

I'm not in the PhD world at all, but as an outside observer looking at your OP, it certainly seems like you want to go to School 1. I'm a fan of guts.

Also, when you say "all things considered" on cost, does that include housing? That's just surprising that it would be so much more expensive when you factor in cost of living differences between Boston and Providence.

As for rigor, they have a definite academic focus (whereas some programs, especially the DC ones, appear to prefer more fieldwork). You have to take at least 12 credits per semester, classes are during the day, and there's no specific time set aside to get an internship/job for experience (though I heard that some students are nevertheless able to do 10ish hours of this work if they really bust tail). This doesn't bother me but I've spoken with many people who are attracted to some DC programs because they'll be able to take night classes and work at the same time. Beyond the amount of courses necessary, I had a distinct impression that the work was tough and time-consuming (albeit do-able). If you've been talking to current students via FB you have probably heard something similar. As for safety in Durham, I really don't see anything to worry about. I'm not sure where you're coming from, but it's probably on the safer side of the spectrum of small-medium cities. Even 10-15 years ago when it was "rougher," there was really very little to worry about. Since then, gentrification has been rapidly underway. But anywhere you'll go as a Duke student -- campus, downtown, music venues/bars -- is perfectly safe. I've spent a fair amount of time over the last 15 years hanging out in Durham (including less affluent neighborhoods), and I've never felt unsafe.

I suggest posting this in the arts forum, where you may get more knowledgable responses.

It was great! -- the best out of three that I've attended (American and Chicago-Harris being the other two). It was a great combination of high quality faculty/students and laid-back, welcoming vibe, with what feels like will be a lot of personalized attention (due to the smaller program size). Caveat: I was already pretty sure I was going to decide on Sanford, and was just making sure I didn't absolutely hate it upon visiting for Open House. This only took about an hour to figure out, after which I was more concerned with discovering exactly how the program will work for me. In other words, I probably wasn't as critical as other students. One of the cool things about the event was that they had specific Office Hours times set where we could meet with various administrators and faculty. I used this window in an attempt to negotiate my funding (she appeared to be soft-promising about $5k/yr extra to anyone who asked), and to meet with the director of the program, Mac McCorkle, to discuss specific faculty and courses I should seek out in order to supplement my area of interest (political reform). In hindsight it feels really cool that I was able to talk with the very director about our aligned interests -- he had even sought me out earlier to introduce himself when I let another administrator know about my area of interest. Another comment I appreciated during this meeting was that after I confessed to being a little nervous about the MicroEcon pre-req I have to take this summer, he basically told me I didn't need to worry about it -- that "We'll be able to figure that out no matter what" (paraphrase). The other big takeaway from the event that faculty, current students and alumni kept referencing was the outstanding network of Duke alumni, and their tight-knit loyalty to other alumni. I'm sure many of the most prestigious programs have a similar thing going, but it was impressive to hear stories about people getting internships/jobs with basically nothing more than a phone call to a Sanford alum. They even claimed that professionals in DC talk about the "Duke Mafia". And while this network appears to be strongest in DC and the east coast, there were still stories about people getting connected on the west coast as well (I didn't hear anyone ask about internationally). One last anecdote that I at least appreciated, though it may have surprised/bothered others: the Career Development Dean, Donna Dyer, bluntly told west coasters, "If you're coming from California, and you're asking me how helpful the Sanford degree will be in California, why wouldn't you just go to school in California? They have great ones there!" I highly value honesty. In closing, the big takeaways were personalization, network, and rigor. I talked to probably a dozen other admitted students and they all had varying degrees of favorable reactions, with most of them either certain on attending Sanford, or down to a close decision between Sanford and another prestigious program.

From what I understand this is more an issue for PhD candidates, where it is considered better to diversify your institutions. I'm not aware of it mattering at the Master's level, especially when you're talking about such a prestigious degree as Goldman's.

Depends on which program of course. Several, especially in the DC area, have all of their courses at night specifically so that their students can get jobs/internships. Duke-Sanford, on the other hand, has a pretty rigorous courseload not allowing for outside endeavors (from what current/past students have told me). You should be able to find the answers to your questions by researching/contacting the specific programs in which you're interested.

My understanding is that LBJ is already incredibly cheap: by my calculations around $36k tuition total for out-of-state students. I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong.

I would suggest checking over at the Engineering forum, where their already may be discussions underway on the specific programs you are considering: http://forum.thegradcafe.com/forum/32-engineering/

@zling My other schools should be in my signature. My main factors in applying were the quality and location of the programs. I'm different from most applicants in that I'm older and with a family, so it had to be some place we would all like to relocate for a couple of years (my wife's skills are easily transferrable). We currently live in a small town so were excited at the idea of moving to a major city for a couple-few years. I'm in it for more of a generalist degree than you are -- as I mentioned above, I see myself working in the non-profit sector doing policy research and advocacy. I also wasn't sure about the strength of my candidacy after such a long layoff and "merely" being a public school teacher for the last decade or so. So I applied to the major programs -- Berkeley, Chicago, Duke, Columbia -- as sort of a prayer, while being sure to line up some back-ups behind the next tier (I had a list of 3-4 that didn't have apps due until April, just in case I didn't get in anywhere). Happily, it turns out I could have applied to way fewer schools. American was my first acceptance and made an extremely attractive offer along with a terrific recruitment event for their "top prospects" -- they're clearly trying to move up in the rankings and compete with GT and GW as best of DC. I've kept in touch with a couple candidates I met there who both told me that despite getting into way better programs, they haven't liked any of them as much as American when visiting. After that, it was basically going to come down to who gave me the best offer. Chicago, even though much more expensive, was enticing just for its name, until I visited of course. LBJ didn't offer money but was still the cheapest out of any of them -- alas, in the interim my wife and I decided that Austin was a little too similar to the Raleigh-Durham area that we currently live in. Berkeley, Columbia and GW didn't offer me money and declined to negotiate, making the decision on them easy. Duke came in with a generous offer, basically a half-ride, which was less than American, but difference in living costs made it still way cheaper. And finally I got offered a full-ride from Maryland. So it was pretty easy to whittle the acceptances down to American, Duke, and Maryland. Duke is the least appealing location for us, since we already live here, but there's an obvious convenience factor in not having to move with two young children, find schools for them, get a house, etc., all while starting grad school and my wife at a new job. When you combine that with the significant difference in prestige between Duke's degree and the other two programs, it's really kind of a no-brainer. As i write I'm waiting to attend Duke's Open House tomorrow, just to make sure I don't have the same sort of visceral reaction I had to Harris. Assuming I don't, I'll be able to commit shortly (still trying to get them to up their offer after Maryland's full ride!). Because my wife and I still want to move at some point, we've compromised and committed to relocating after I graduate in two years. That was maybe more in depth than you were expecting, but what can I say? Like many, I enjoy talking about myself. I'm not sure how helpful that will be for your own decision, but as a more "mature" applicant I will offer you some unsolicited advice: think long and hard about what you see yourself doing in two years after you graduate, then in five years, then in ten years. If you're set on IR, there are logistical factors like geographical location that make DC more convenient. But being, presumably, less attached than me in other areas of your life, you also don't have to follow the path of least resistance. Ask yourself which city appeals to you more. Try to imagine yourself in each place (and in each season!). Hope that helps, and I wish you luck. Also, as one of the deans told me when I was trying to negotiate more money: as major as this decision is, all of your options are great, and you really can't go too wrong with whatever you choose. Reminding yourself of that may take some of the pressure off of this decision.

@zling I'm not sure if "snobbery" is the right word, because it really wasn't either of the things you mentioned. Maybe arrogance? I had the distinct impression that they were trying to dazzle us with their wealth (e.g. they gave us an impressive swag bag upon entry) and their prestige (name-dropping faculty is normal, but talking constantly about how elite they are compared to other schools, and trying to suck up to us with the same message isn't, IMO). Had they done these things with a flawless event I may not have noticed them, but there was remarkably little thought put into some of the proceedings. The chosen facilities were not big enough for the turnout, and there was literally no comfortable place for us to eat lunch -- most of us had to sit on the floor. They kept bragging about us being "the most students ever" to attend the event which was downright confusing: they were responsible for inviting us all and had to have a rough algorithm for how many would accept, so they knew what the turnout would be when they were organizing it. But they talked it up like it was proof of their greatness, when really it just seems like evidence they're trying to grow their program (e.g., perhaps to better monetize their brand?). So yeah, my chief impression was of them trying to dazzle us but in a rather lazy, even contemptuous, way -- after all, they would have to think pretty little of us naive grad students if they really expected us to be swayed by a fancy water bottle and their legendary name. (This was arguably colored by my first interaction with them, when someone called me about my acceptance/offer, asked where else I had heard from, and immediately told me "Oh, we're way better than them!") I will say that when organizers got out of the way and just let their faculty talk to us, the presentations were damn impressive. Also, I was in a distinct minority of the 300 or so students in attendance, many of whom seemed enraptured if a little confused by the occasionally shoddy accommodations.

Yes it made it easy to eliminate them from my list of acceptances. If their financial offer had clearly beat the others (it was middle of the pack), I probably would have considered it notwithstanding this negative impression, though I still doubt I would have gone there even in that best-case scenario. I want to emphasize that this is a personal impression, and that I know that most Harris alums have loved the program. It's really just a personality clash -- e.g. I'm not as ambitious as most of their students and plan to go into non-profit work, whereas half of their graduates go into the private sector.