t_ruth

I'm not in clinical, but for my field (and specifically for me), the statement of purpose is pretty much *everything.* I want to see that the person is familiar with my work, has interests that align with that work (and other stuff on my website), and has a rough idea of how they might contribute/advance this work. A strong statement of purpose will trump every other aspect of the application.

There are research-based Education Masters (e.g., many in Educational Psychology), but you might be better saving your money (Masters are rarely funded) and instead finding a lab manager position where you will get exposure to education (or adjacent field) research and actually get paid. This would also give you some quick exposure to research so you can decide whether or not a PhD is right for you. If you want to go into teaching and/or administration, a PhD is likely not the best eventual degree for you. You can get a Masters, but it might be better to get a teaching job first (there are some that will fund your Masters while you teach) and then decide whether this field is what you want.

I'm faculty in Ed Psych/Learning Sciences and Ed Research Methods/Statistics, so not exactly a quant psych program, but adjacent. Many Ed Psych programs have very strong quantitative training, so some of the same post-PhD jobs are available to us.

Agree with a lot of this. This degree will be even more marketable if you also hone your data science skills.

Many programs will work with you so that you won't have to duplicate classes; however, those early classes are an opportunity for the program to communicate their norms and to forge a bond between members of the same cohort. Even if some of the content is the same, it likely won't be an exact duplication. Starting over is tough, but even taking the exact same class again would result in more growth, as you would be taking it with different people and as a different/evolved researcher yourself (though again, it is unlikely that anything would be a complete duplication).

As a PI, a writing sample might push an applicant over the top. I would especially want to see something like a GRFP application (two pages) or a conference submission or proceeding (5-10) pages. I would be looking for how the applicant writes (sentence construction, overall paper structure), how familiar are they with research writing conventions, how they situate their work in the literature (what do they cite, how do they weave citations in their writing), and whether they can write about their topic in a way that gets me excited (I agree with SocDevMum that you want to avoid jargon). Also agree w/SocDevMum that most won't spend too much time on your writing sample. Ideally, your personal statement would demonstrate a lot of the things I mentioned above as well.

I posted a reply to this same post in the Education forum, but in case others read it here too: There *are* PhDs in Educational Psychology, Learning Sciences, etc., and they are just as focused on research as PhDs in developmental, cognitive, or other psych fields. In fact, Ed Psych PhDs often have stronger research methods and quantitative methods training than many other psych programs (other than quantitative psychology itself). EdDs are an entirely different thing and are more for those interested in administrative positions. They are more a practical/applied degree than a research degree.

Hi. Research "labs" are common in some education sub-fields. You can see a list of a few faculty/programs who are recruiting here. But, your best bet is to read research articles you are interested in and then see who the authors are. Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.

There are plenty of PhD programs in Educational Psychology and related fields (e.g., Learning Sciences; Learning, Cognition, and Development). EdD degrees are generally for those who want to go into some form of administration. If you want to do research, you will want a PhD. Working as a lab manager for a year will definitely help you prepare for a PhD program in psychology, including educational psychology, but your prior experience will also be valued in education-focused PhD programs.

Depends on specific topic and if the program is designed for part-time or full-time students.

I agree with a lot of what SummoningSquare said about comparing the degree options except the above. Who decides "usefulness"? So many folx who are working in the ed arena without actual classroom experience or exposure are doing things don't actually end up being useful in a real classroom. It's a point of contention that so many people from outside of ed think that they have the solution to educational issues. I see the usefulness of interdisciplinary teams (I work in many myself), but am also frustrated by the hubris of many econ/public policy researchers.

I wouldn't worry at all. You will take those courses during your PhD. The experience you have working on actual evals will be more valuable than courses.

You could browse through the lists on the psych grad wiki. In addition to cog programs, I would look at developmental, ed psych, and learning sciences programs. There are researchers studying numeric processing in all of those programs. I second the suggestion above to look for articles that interest you, but also second the caveat re: the delay for new work. I have work adjacent to this area, so happy to answer specific questions and provide names over DM.

You've gotten some good answers so far. You might want to check out the Psych Grad Wiki to get an idea about specific research matches and funding: http://psychgradsearch.wikidot.com/phd-2022

This might be helpful. (psych grad wiki)

I second SocDevMum's note about working a gap year as a lab manager/paid RA. Often this gets you better experience than a Masters (and doesn't cost anything). Also, what are you interested in studying? You might want to check out Ed Psych/Learning Sciences programs, depending on your area of focus...

A great list! I'm faculty in a LS program and happy to offer individual advice. Feel free to DM me on here if you want some guidance. Good luck with your applications!

I don't see an issue with the field. I see a potential issue with getting an M.Ed. instead of an M.S. (in any field), as the M.Ed. typically does not allow for research opportunities. Can you get involved with research while getting your M.Ed.? That would be ideal.

I'm not sure that a history degree will make you more competitive. If you have research experience (especially with publications or presentations), this already makes you fairly competitive. I'm curious about your topic though--it is *very* specific but also not really framed in the kind of way that would define a program. I know people at a university near you who research the intersection of epidemiology and education, but I believe they focus on science classes. Why social studies? What are the specific questions you are interested in? Are you interested in intervention work? cultural and social processes? specific aspects of social studies learning? Each of these questions would suggest a different type of program (e.g., ed policy, learning sciences, curriculum and instruction). Thus, you might want to look more broadly for programs that could be a good fit. Feel free to PM if you want to talk specifics. Good luck!

How exciting that you are considering a PhD in Education! Some answers below: 1) Are PhDs in education, particularly science education, in demand? What is a PhD in education like? I expect there to be a lot of reading and research. Are there programs renown for education? (I'm assuming places like Harvard, Stanford, Penn [?]) Do you mean "in demand" for post-PhD jobs? Yes. An Ed PhD is one of the most marketable PhDs, as there are many government and industry jobs available to you. The faculty job market is tough, as in any field, but not impossible. Re: what it is like: Yes, there is lots of reading and research. Specifics vary depending on the program and advisor. Re: top programs: You can of course check the "top" Ed PhD program rankings somewhere like US News, but the most important thing is advisor. You want to work with a prolific and well-connected advisor who is a good match. Draw the line first at funded programs in R1s (and some select R2s), then look for the specific advisor. 2) I definitely want to take a gap year or two after undergraduate to figure everything out because I've been changing my mind a lot over this past year. Do you think pursuing teaching at the K-12 level for a year or two is possible? I've heard of programs such as Teach for America, which would do just that. If you will ultimately want a faculty job, it is worth it to take three years to teach. In Curriculum and Instruction programs (where many science ed positions will be), faculty positions often require a minimum of three years K-12 teaching experience. If you are going to take the break, it seems silly to me to do it for two, when pushing past that three-year mark will open up many more positions to you. 3) Is there a forum about people's past stories? I've been trying to find people who had a similar journey as me. You can browse the forum here for stories, but this board isn't as active as some of the others on gradcafe. You may want to start connecting with current graduate students in places you might consider. If you are currently leading a research project, you probably have written a literature review. Who are you citing? Look up those people and their labs and try to connect with students they work with. Good luck! Feel free to PM me w/any specific questions.

They did this one year I believe!

I wouldn't worry about being different than the applicants in those programs. People come to LS programs from all kinds of backgrounds. Similarly, I would not worry about your quant GRE keeping you out of programs. Your verbal and writing are strong. If it was optional, I might have left it off, because it will take you out of the running for many fellowships (and if you had left it off they wouldn't consider it). It seems you don't really have any research experience and this will be the biggest question mark for prospective PIs. It will be important for you to discuss research-like things you've done (did you do any action research when you were teaching?) and to be familiar with the work of your prospective PIs and to have good answers for the types of things you want to study and types of research questions you want to ask. When I interview prospective students, this is the #1 thing I am looking at: their response to the question, "What are some research questions you would like to investigate?" I'm looking to see that their questions are interesting, are a reasonable fit with my work, and are well-structured. This is my area (I'm faculty in LS specializing in ed tech), so feel free to PM with specific questions. Good luck!

For me, I did look at GREs in the past (mostly for very high or very low scores), and definitely give weight to LORs, but the #1 factor for me was and is the personal statement--how does the applicant speak about research? how do they speak about *my* research in particular?

Ugh, just reread my post and I obviously meant "economic" downturn. But the new forum powers won't allow edits

There is generally an increase in applications to higher education in times of academic downturn. There are still some programs accepting applicants if you find there are places you could see yourself and hadn't yet applied. Cost should not be prohibitive--many institutions offer waivers for application fees (mine does). If you are interested in Learning Sciences/Educational Psychology at all, please let me know and I can help.