safety schools

[Kantattheairport]

6 hours ago, bluwe said:

I suppose it makes sense if yield really matters in the long run. To me, it seems that the only thing that this strategy protects against is having to send more acceptances and field more declined offers, but so what? Everyone knows about the April 15th deadline, so it's not like a student that hasn't heard back from their (remaining) first choice school X is going to accept some other school Y's offer, before X can put an offer in front of them. Unless there's some administrative reason that ad coms are encouraged to filter applications like that, then it seems you can still get this student to go to X so long as that offer is in front of them by the 15th of April, with, seemingly, no long term loss (i.e., the students that are most qualified and fit the best at the program enroll there). I'm not sure what is lost in adopting this strategy, but I do know what is gained: more anxiety for applicants as some of us infer rejection from school(s) we thought we had a relatively good chance at getting into--all the while looking down the road to programs where prospects of admission are much lower. 

I suppose one administrative reason might be just to do with the numbers generated; I assume the admission statistics are sent to some board or committee somewhere that evaluates how 'desirable' or 'prestigious' the department is, partly based on whether admitted grad students turn them down, and maybe this affects funding and such? This is pure speculation from me, but I've heard about this being the case at an undergraduate level, so it's at least plausible that it might be the case at a post/graduate level as well.

[The_Last_Thylacine]

Don't forget about the optional question: "Where else did you apply?" Boy, that was such a hard pass answering that question. 

[Nothingtown]

8 hours ago, The_Last_Thylacine said:

Don't forget about the optional question: "Where else did you apply?" Boy, that was such a hard pass answering that question. 

Oh man I didn't even think about how that would affect their decision. I mean I honestly hadn't heard of schools taking yield into consideration till I read this thread. Iirc the only schools who asked me that are pretty well ranked themselves so I hope it doesn't matter. Pretty much anything makes me nervous at this stage.

[Kantattheairport]

1 hour ago, ringoandme said:

Oh man I didn't even think about how that would affect their decision. I mean I honestly hadn't heard of schools taking yield into consideration till I read this thread. Iirc the only schools who asked me that are pretty well ranked themselves so I hope it doesn't matter. Pretty much anything makes me nervous at this stage.

I mean, the forms typically say explicitly that your answer there will not have any bearing upon the final decision... but yes, as soon as I read @The_Last_Thylacine's post I also went 'Oh no'. ?

[bluwe]

25 minutes ago, Kantattheairport said:

I mean, the forms typically say explicitly that your answer there will not have any bearing upon the final decision... but yes, as soon as I read @The_Last_Thylacine's post I also went 'Oh no'. ?

But this is why it couldn't affect admissions, right? Unless the grad schools give those answers to departments, then I wouldn't put it past ad coms to use that information. I started off giving that information, under the impression that both the information wouldn't affect admissions, and that the information would help grad schools' research in some way. Luckily (I guess), I got super lazy at the last set of applications and stopped giving it. 

[Kantattheairport]

12 minutes ago, bluwe said:

But this is why it couldn't affect admissions, right? Unless the grad schools give those answers to departments, then I wouldn't put it past ad coms to use that information. I started off giving that information, under the impression that both the information wouldn't affect admissions, and that the information would help grad schools' research in some way. Luckily (I guess), I got super lazy at the last set of applications and stopped giving it. 

I also decided to leave it in because I figured it would help some one 'in some way', but alas, I was diligent enough to make sure I filled it out for each school! Haha, tbh I think you're right, the info is probably for the grad school in general rather than the admissions committees in particular. Or hopefully, anyway, at least until after the decisions are out!

[Rose-Colored Beetle]

Really? A crowd of philosophers and not one person says "hur hur, that depends on your definition of safety school"?

[philosophaurus_rex]

1 hour ago, Rose-Colored Beetle said:

Really? A crowd of philosophers and not one person says "hur hur, that depends on your definition of safety school"?

Created an account just to express my appreciation for this. I laughed. 

[Rose-Colored Beetle]

On 2/8/2019 at 12:59 AM, philosophaurus_rex said:

Created an account just to express my appreciation for this. I laughed. 

Welcome to the light, dear lurker!

[kakaz]

Returning to this question after getting a rejection email from Duquesne's program director with him saying that there are only 4 slots for new PhD students—there is probably no such thing as a safety school. Over 100 applicants (my guess) for only 4 slots is almost unthinkable. I knew it was competitive going in but experiencing it firsthand is another beast

[BuffaloBuffalo]

21 minutes ago, kakaz said:

Returning to this question after getting a rejection email from Duquesne's program director with him saying that there are only 4 slots for new PhD students—there is probably no such thing as a safety school. Over 100 applicants (my guess) for only 4 slots is almost unthinkable. I knew it was competitive going in but experiencing it firsthand is another beast

Just got that same email.  I'm local to Duquesne and I met with some professors before applying, so I knew the odds going in, but yeah, it really did reemphasize the difference in the numbers between grad applications and undergrad applications.  When there are that few slots going around, I don't think you can call any application "safe." 

[Nothingtown]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBuffalo said:

Just got that same email.  I'm local to Duquesne and I met with some professors before applying, so I knew the odds going in, but yeah, it really did reemphasize the difference in the numbers between grad applications and undergrad applications.  When there are that few slots going around, I don't think you can call any application "safe." 

Right--I know someone at Duquesne in a different graduate department, and I'd been talking with him as I sent in my application and he kept saying he knew my credentials and I'd get in easy. I guess his department isn't as competitive. Needless to say it was  disappointing to get the rejection email. 

I applied to some smaller schools with spotty placement records as well and I get the feeling they're quite competitive to get into. Nothing's safe. 

[UndergradDad]

Yes that number of applications is common. Many programs have 200 plus applications for 4-6 spots. Some of the programs list their stats like that on their websites.

[Rose-Colored Beetle]

On 2/18/2019 at 1:36 AM, BuffaloBuffalo said:

Just got that same email.  I'm local to Duquesne and I met with some professors before applying, so I knew the odds going in, but yeah, it really did reemphasize the difference in the numbers between grad applications and undergrad applications.  When there are that few slots going around, I don't think you can call any application "safe." 

 

On 2/19/2019 at 12:42 PM, UndergradDad said:

Yes that number of applications is common. Many programs have 200 plus applications for 4-6 spots. Some of the programs list their stats like that on their websites.

I spoke to Selim Berker at a conference, and he told me that even they (Harvard) are thinking of downsizing their next PhD cohort. It will be interesting to see how the future plays out; I wouldn't be surprised if the more sustainable programs turn out to be those where PhD students can be used as cheap ethics teachers for schools that are big on business or healthcare.

[hector549]

If, by "safety schools," we mean schools that are lower-ranked (and less competitive) but still offer a decent fit, then sure, I think that such schools exist. Of course, "less competitive" is a relative term. I've looked at some admissions data (most schools don't post it, but a handful do). If you're comparing the selectivity of, say, Mizzou, which receives about 40 apps, and makes roughly 9 offers, then this is undoubtedly a "safer" school than a school like Notre Dame which receives about 250 apps, and makes 10 or so offers (assuming the fit of the candidate is roughly equivalent at both institutions).

Many schools are between these extremes, though. U. of Illinois-Chicago in 2017 received 68 apps and made 4 offers. That's still pretty selective, and is a school near-ish the bottom of the rankings, so "safety" is not synonymous with "sure thing." Of course, matters are further complicated by the composition of the applicant pool, which as an applicant, is largely unknown.

Edited February 21, 2019 by hector549