NDSEG 2019-2020

[BCHGang]

2 hours ago, thel said:

It's unfortunate that we may never know what these dates mean, since they likely won't tell us. That being said, it's fun to wildly speculate... here's my guess:

1. <= Dec 6th: you submitted the app
2. Dec ~20th: you made it through the initial bureaucracy checks (GPA, completion, etc.), and was sent for review
3. Feb ~20th: your review was one of the "top 30%" as ranked by reviewers, sent to DOD
4. >= April 3: they are filling in the results from DOD as they come in (right now it just seems ARO are back)
5. I would expect that once all of the branches are back is when we will get the email

I think this is the most likely case. I don't want to get my hopes up. I wish this wasn't, but I don't even know anymore ! ? 

[BCHGang]

4 hours ago, cellbiogal said:

It seems the smallest percentage of folks have no update past their initial application, so it would make sense that those are the people most seriously being considered since we know such a small percent of awards are given. Running with this theory, that means people with February 28 and April 3 updates are not currently being considered. But I'm not sure what to make of people like myself who's updates are sprinkled throughout December.

It'd be great if everyone followed up after the awards announcement so we could piece this together, I'm invested in this mystery now lol.

To play Devil's advocate, the majority of people here are pretty high performers. So I'd expect a higher number of applicants here to obtain the fellowship. Given the updates line up with the calendar that Anon found with the NDSEG dates, I think if you had an update with February 28, you've moved on to the secondary selection. If you have an update on April 3rd, it's a bit harder to say. I'm a little surprised that I didn't move past the first stage.

I want to say I had a great personal statement that aligns with the DoD and letters of recommendation. My GRE scores were around or over 90th percentile. I also have a much better Masters' GPA (>3.8) than undergrad GPA (~3.5). And I worked like a dog on my research proposal. I did everything I could to maximize my chances. I guess the competition is really stiff. ?

@justanothergradstudent

Well, it's no surprise. This is the grad cafe. "Where something is always brewing" ! ? 

Edited April 5, 2020 by BCHGang

[BCHGang]

Here's the ranking system I found from a previous year of NDSEG evaluations. Maybe we can correlate this information to an updated application date.

[surface4]

Mine still says it was updated 12/06/19. My GRE quant and verbal were also above 90th %ile, my undergrad GPA was 3.7, and my first-year PhD GPA was 4.0. So I'd be a bit surprised if the date really means I didn't make it past the GPA/GRE screening.

Also, I accidentally submitted the application with an unofficial copy of my grad transcript (without the university seal on it). I called SysPlus in early December letting them know that I could provide them a copy of the official transcript, and they said they'd contact me if they needed it. It would be very frustrating if they had just thrown out my application right away due to the transcript issue, instead of getting back to me about it. But based on the way the NDSEG program has been administered in the past by other contractors, oversights on the contractor's part unfortunately seem possible.

[BCHGang]

1 minute ago, surface4 said:

Mine still says it was updated 12/06/19. My GRE quant and verbal were also above 90th %ile, my undergrad GPA was 3.7, and my first-year PhD GPA was 4.0. So I'd be a bit surprised if the date really means I didn't make it past the GPA/GRE screening.

Also, I accidentally submitted the application with an unofficial copy of my grad transcript (without the university seal on it). I called SysPlus in early December letting them know that I could provide them a copy of the official transcript, and they said they'd contact me if they needed it. It would be very frustrating if they had just thrown out my application right away due to the transcript issue, instead of getting back to me about it. But based on the way the NDSEG program has been administered in the past by other contractors, oversights on the contractor's part unfortunately seem possible.

Like for my transcripts, my undergrad and grad institutions only have the unofficial transcripts, so I printed those out to PDFs and submitted those. Those have the university logo, so I guess that counts as the seal? I was under the impression that an official copy (which is something they directly receive) would only be necessary if you get selected for verification purposes.

[3st3rb]

I don't think the first screening was a GPA/GRE Screening before sending to review. I think it's literally just completion and to have things make sense and for first pass on performance. I put the wrong year of graduation for my Masters and they came back asking me to fix it before they could pass it on and this happened after the deadline. I also had a friend whose app was not accepted (due to a technical error on Sysplus' end) but they also told her about this afterwards. Also, I feel like if it was a GPA/GRE check it would be for really low scores like definitely below 70% and i don't think most of us would fall into that. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by 3st3rb

[3st3rb]

I hope they tell us tomorrow!

Edited April 5, 2020 by 3st3rb

[BCHGang]

18 minutes ago, surface4 said:

Mine still says it was updated 12/06/19. My GRE quant and verbal were also above 90th %ile, my undergrad GPA was 3.7, and my first-year PhD GPA was 4.0. So I'd be a bit surprised if the date really means I didn't make it past the GPA/GRE screening.

Also, I accidentally submitted the application with an unofficial copy of my grad transcript (without the university seal on it). I called SysPlus in early December letting them know that I could provide them a copy of the official transcript, and they said they'd contact me if they needed it. It would be very frustrating if they had just thrown out my application right away due to the transcript issue, instead of getting back to me about it. But based on the way the NDSEG program has been administered in the past by other contractors, oversights on the contractor's part unfortunately seem possible.

Also remember that they said that if your application wasn't complete, they'd let you know? I think if you submitted a transcript without a seal, they'd let you know they want the real thing. Assuming they didn't, I think they'd require it if you got selected, and they are fine with what you gave.

Edited April 5, 2020 by BCHGang

[BCHGang]

16 minutes ago, 3st3rb said:

I don't think the first screening was a GPA/GRE Screening before sending to review. I think it's literally just completion and to have things make sense and for first pass on performance. I put the wrong year of graduation for my Masters and they came back asking me to fix it before they could pass it on and this happened after the deadline. I also had a friend whose app was not accepted (due to a technical error on Sysplus' end) but they also told her about this afterwards. Also, I feel like if it was a GPA/GRE check it would be for really low scores like definitely below 70% and i don't think most of us would fall into that. 

I disagree. Based on the document I found, they judge relative to each student. It's like a curve. Using the point system, they obtain a mean and SD to get a z-score. Based on the z-score, they rank each student and collect the top 30%. Which sucks completely, because the university in my undergrad is known to not grade inflate.

Edited April 5, 2020 by BCHGang

[3st3rb]

12 minutes ago, BCHGang said:

I disagree. Based on the document I found, they judge relative to each student. It's like a curve. Using the point system, they obtain a mean and SD to get a z-score. Based on the z-score, they rank each student and collect the top 30%. Which sucks completely, because the university in my undergrad is known to not grade inflate.

Hmm. Are you sure? Z-scores are typically used to eliminate reviewer bias. I'm a reviewer of applications on a couple of national outreach programs and we use these to make sure that people who randomly get placed with reviewers who mainly give out average scores and rarely give top marks are not shafted compared to those who get reviewers who basically give everyone a gold star. So the means would only be reviewer specific not for  the entirety of the pool. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by 3st3rb

[BCHGang]

4 minutes ago, 3st3rb said:

Hmm. Are you sure? Z-scores are typically used to eliminate reviewer bias. I'm a reviewer of applications on a couple of national outreach programs and we use these to make sure that people who randomly get placed with reviewers who mainly give out average scores and rarely give top marks are not shafted compared to those who get reviewers who basically give everyone a gold star. 

Here are the guidelines I found: https://ndseg.asee.org/2017_NDSEG_Guide_For_Panelists.pdf

[3st3rb]

5 minutes ago, BCHGang said:

Here are the guidelines I found: https://ndseg.asee.org/2017_NDSEG_Guide_For_Panelists.pdf

Right so that's mean based on reviewer not the whole pool. But I think I understood you differently, earlier. I do get that you meant ranking post Z-score now. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by 3st3rb

[BCHGang]

Just now, 3st3rb said:

Right so that's mean based on reviewer not the whole pool. 

Ah, my mistake. I read through the whole document super quick. 

[zamboni_driver]

I received my last update December 20th and would not consider myself a strong applicant

55% percentile GRE scores

3.2 GPA UG

I also accidentally referred to 'NSF' in my written statements instead of NDSEG. Proofread proofread proofread!

[Physicsisphysics]

Interesting nobody who applied to AFOSR had an update past December. As I was saying before, speculation is useless since there's a ton of confounding factors such as the BAA and agency. Let's just sit tight for this week

[SomGuy13]

As someone who applied in parallel with PhD applications, this wait is brutal because the offer I accept may be contingent on whether or not I get this fellowship. Last update is 12/06. Computer and Computational Sciences, ARO. I have previously worked in research at a DoD lab, and have a master's degree with a high GPA, so I was hoping that I might be competitive. 

[BCHGang]

28 minutes ago, Physicsisphysics said:

Interesting nobody who applied to AFOSR had an update past December. As I was saying before, speculation is useless since there's a ton of confounding factors such as the BAA and agency. Let's just sit tight for this week

But it's so tempting to wear my tinfoil hat ! ? 

[whatdothedatesmean]

52 minutes ago, Physicsisphysics said:

Interesting nobody who applied to AFOSR had an update past December. As I was saying before, speculation is useless since there's a ton of confounding factors such as the BAA and agency. Let's just sit tight for this week

As I meant to say before, my BAA was for the AFOSR. Last week my update was 2/28 and now it is 4/03. So AFOSR has definitely updated at least some of them.

[fishandfreckles]

3 hours ago, SomGuy13 said:

As someone who applied in parallel with PhD applications, this wait is brutal because the offer I accept may be contingent on whether or not I get this fellowship. Last update is 12/06. Computer and Computational Sciences, ARO. I have previously worked in research at a DoD lab, and have a master's degree with a high GPA, so I was hoping that I might be competitive. 

I would be surprised if you weren't competitive as well. These things are often a crapshoot and I know of many scientists who were denied and went on to do great things (check twitter: lots of convos about this mostly in regard to nsf but also ndseg), so we all shouldn't be too disappointed if we don't get it, there is still hope for us to be profs or work in industry etc! (Mostly trying to remind myself).

[Momo1111]

Dang, just became good buds with a program manager for ARFL.. if I don't  get it this year then maybe next year I will ^^

[shazad]

8 hours ago, zamboni_driver said:

I received my last update December 20th and would not consider myself a strong applicant

55% percentile GRE scores

3.2 GPA UG

I also accidentally referred to 'NSF' in my written statements instead of NDSEG. Proofread proofread proofread!

F in the chat for the Dec 20th gang.

[thel]

20 minutes ago, Ooshfb said:

nvm

The original comment made me laugh pretty hard, ngl

[BCHGang]

Just now, Ooshfb said:

???

[Momo1111]

what was it? 

[aayd183]

To add another data point, my last update was 12/18 for AFRL applying as an UG with a 3.97 GPA, 165 Q, 161 V, 5.0AW.

 

I know its competitive but it would be a real bummer to get knocked out in the first round. I was feeling pretty confident until I read this thread after I got into every school I applied to including MIT

Edited April 6, 2020 by aayd183