NDSEG 2019-2020

[cellbiogal]

9 minutes ago, Sir Lurks-a-lot said:

Just looked at the worksheet.  If they are using GPA/GRE to select 1st round picks, they must set the bar really high.  

The GPAs and GREs of this group are intense. This makes it a little easier for me to process the possibility of rejection since it's clear we are all dedicated, hard workers who are all deserving of receiving a fellowship but funding dictates that very few awards are given out. 

[imposterimposter]

Honestly I hate this haha. The most depressing thing for me is both my lab mates that have applied for fellowships have won at least one (my advisor won both NSF and NDSEG), and I'm about positive at this point that I am going to be the black sheep. 

[scientistsalarian]

Just now, imposterimposter said:

Honestly I hate this haha. The most depressing thing for me is both my lab mates that have applied for fellowships have won at least one (my advisor won both NSF and NDSEG), and I'm about positive at this point that I am going to be the black sheep. 

I collaborated with 6 other people on our NSF applications. 4 of then got the fellowship and 2 got HM, but I got nothing. I am the black sheep already, and I'm just scrambling for something to un-black-sheepify me...

[alcoholistic]

1 minute ago, imposterimposter said:

Honestly I hate this haha. The most depressing thing for me is both my lab mates that have applied for fellowships have won at least one (my advisor won both NSF and NDSEG), and I'm about positive at this point that I am going to be the black sheep. 

Sometimes I have imposter syndrome for my imposter syndrome. I.e. Imposter syndrome assumes you don't think you're good enough to be in  a group even when you are. But in this case I am not good enough to qualify to have imposter syndrome. My cohort is the first time my advisor's students didn't win GRFP or HM

[Sir Lurks-a-lot]

I am the only one in my lab that applied for anything.  I think this is just going to confirm to the rest of my lab mates that applying is not worth the effort.  Gonna go buy a lottery ticket!  At least the results for that come out on time....

 

[imposterimposter]

Just now, alcoholistic said:

Sometimes I have imposter syndrome for my imposter syndrome. I.e. Imposter syndrome assumes you don't think you're good enough to be in  a group even when you are. But in this case I am not good enough to qualify to have imposter syndrome. My cohort is the first time my advisor's students didn't win GRFP or HM

Oh I feel you. Hence the name haha. I am my advisors first student to not win a fellowship...are you at UCLA? I'm UCSB

[alcoholistic]

Just now, imposterimposter said:

Oh I feel you. Hence the name haha. I am my advisors first student to not win a fellowship...are you at UCLA? I'm UCSB

USC. Big cohort of socal schools here though!

[scientistsalarian]

4 minutes ago, alcoholistic said:

USC. Big cohort of socal schools here though!

I did my undergrad in socal (Harvey Mudd), does that qualify me for the socal gang? #decembergangsocalgang?

[alcoholistic]

Just now, scientistsalarian said:

I did my undergrad in socal (Harvey Mudd), does that qualify me for the socal gang? #decembergangsocalgang?

I think some of us were  thinking about meeting up in vegas next year in December. Add your name to the mailing list!

[GoldenDog]

I think that in general, the way to win NSF is fairly different from winning NDSEG. NSF is much more transparent about their process and they are looking for specific things: broader impacts and  intellectual merit and all that they encompass, diversity in a variety of forms (e.g. geographic), and other items. As a result of their process being more transparent, there are alot more tricks you have to know to totally play defense and prevent yourself from giving the reviewers an excuse for a rejection. 

NDSEG seems more cut and dry. They don't give you feedback, so the process if very opaque. They claim to have some selection criteria, but I don't know how strictly its used. I would be unsurprised if there were quota's and cutoffs based upon GPA and school. In other words, the fellowship is less holistic, which I think is unfortunate and ultimately not the best way of selecting students.  

A big problem with both fellowships is when students' advisors just write the research statement, or the writing is pulled from their Prof's research proposal. At least for NDSEG, this advantage is less unfair since there are just less tricks to be incorporated. 

However, I'm interested to hear how people wrote their applications. I was an NSF winner so maybe I'm just less familiar with this fellowship.

Edited April 17, 2020 by GoldenDog

[3st3rb]

4 minutes ago, GoldenDog said:

I think that in general, the way to win NSF is fairly different from winning NDSEG. NSF is much more transparent about their process and they are looking for specific things: broader impacts and  intellectual merit and all that they encompass, diversity in a variety of forms (e.g. geographic), and other items. As a result of their process being more transparent, there are alot more tricks you have to know to totally play defense and prevent yourself from giving the reviewers an excuse for a rejection. 

NDSEG seems more cut and dry. They don't give you feedback, so the process if very opaque. They claim to have some selection criteria, but I don't know how strictly its used. I would be unsurprised if there were quota's and cutoffs based upon GPA and school. In other words, the fellowship is less holistic, which I think is unfortunate and ultimately not the best way of selecting students.  

However, I'm interested to hear how people wrote their applications. I was an NSF winner so maybe I'm just less familiar with this fellowship.

One way I've heard the outcomes described is that NSF awards the person and NDSEG awards the project. 

 

[thel]

Just now, 3st3rb said:

One way I've heard the outcomes described is that NSF awards the person and NDSEG awards the project. 

 

Similarly, I have heard it described as NSF awards your "potential" while NDSEG awards "accomplishments"

[GoldenDog]

Just now, 3st3rb said:

One way I've heard the outcomes described is that NSF awards the person and NDSEG awards the project. 

 

That also sounds slightly true, but if that was totally the case then GPA/GRE etc would matter relatively little. I don't know how true that is there.

[Sir Lurks-a-lot]

Well, if it rewards your accomplishments then I am definitely out.  I came to the research game pretty late and don't have much in the way of accolades or publications yet.  Ah well!

[scientistsalarian]

11 minutes ago, alcoholistic said:

I think some of us were  thinking about meeting up in vegas next year in December. Add your name to the mailing list!

Haha, I have been amused at your constant attempts to make decembergang a thing. I appreciate the invite, but I'm gonna have to pass. Best of luck though. I hope meeting up works out and everything!

[justanothergradstudent]

deep down in my heart i know we're not going to get the results so why do i insist on checking constantly. How do I abstain 

[DecGangLurker]

1 minute ago, justanothergradstudent said:

deep down in my heart i know we're not going to get the results so why do i insist on checking constantly. How do I abstain 

Anime - One Punch Man is highly recommended for its effective distracting techniques complete with humor, suspense and absurdity.

[OhTheStress]

23 minutes ago, GoldenDog said:

I think that in general, the way to win NSF is fairly different from winning NDSEG. NSF is much more transparent about their process and they are looking for specific things: broader impacts and  intellectual merit and all that they encompass, diversity in a variety of forms (e.g. geographic), and other items. As a result of their process being more transparent, there are alot more tricks you have to know to totally play defense and prevent yourself from giving the reviewers an excuse for a rejection. 

NDSEG seems more cut and dry. They don't give you feedback, so the process if very opaque. They claim to have some selection criteria, but I don't know how strictly its used. I would be unsurprised if there were quota's and cutoffs based upon GPA and school. In other words, the fellowship is less holistic, which I think is unfortunate and ultimately not the best way of selecting students.  

A big problem with both fellowships is when students' advisors just write the research statement, or the writing is pulled from their Prof's research proposal. At least for NDSEG, this advantage is less unfair since there are just less tricks to be incorporated. 

However, I'm interested to hear how people wrote their applications. I was an NSF winner so maybe I'm just less familiar with this fellowship.

One thing I'd be interested to know is what percentage of winners/alts vs rejects had prior DoD connections.  It seems that at least some of us here have already done some work for the DoD in one way or another, and that may or may not be a point in favor.

[GoldenDog]

It's not clear to me if the did connection matters. Is there any reason to believe that it does?

[Momo1111]

dang ONR just cancelled my summer internship. Never working for DoD only DoE from now on ?

[OhTheStress]

1 minute ago, GoldenDog said:

It's not clear to me if the did connection matters. Is there any reason to believe that it does?

No idea, one way or another.  I have no idea what goes on in the selection panels.  That's why I'd like to know after the fallout settles.

[3st3rb]

5 minutes ago, OhTheStress said:

No idea, one way or another.  I have no idea what goes on in the selection panels.  That's why I'd like to know after the fallout settles.

I'd be down to share essays. Though I wouldn't want to just post it here. So maybe a google drive folder people have to ask to join or something.

[GoldenDog]

Just now, 3st3rb said:

I'd be down to share essays. Though I wouldn't want to just post it here. So maybe a google drive folder people have to ask to join or something.

I could be down for that. 

[robertac93]

1 minute ago, 3st3rb said:

I'd be down to share essays. Though I wouldn't want to just post it here. So maybe a google drive folder people have to ask to join or something.

I was thinking of that just this morning actually. I might create a request-able google drive folder for folks to share their personal essay and proposal.

[vpaglioni3]

7 minutes ago, GoldenDog said:

It's not clear to me if the did connection matters. Is there any reason to believe that it does?

I don't think we'll be able to say definitively that a DoD connection helps directly or not. However, there are indirect benefits to having worked in/around the DoD space prior to applying. You get to know the language they use, what they like to see in reports, how to structure your report for maximum impact, etc. Tangential benefits that can maybe get you over the finish line, but won't run the race for you.