2021 Applicants Forum

[FairleyAlfy]

24 minutes ago, spacedumpster said:

I love the rejection wall!! Personally, I just delete them from my Submittable account immediately so it's like it °~*never even happened*~° ?

SAME! It makes my three green accepted submissions look so much better than if they were compared to the 100 rejected I would have on the page ?

[Starbuck420]

1 hour ago, spacedumpster said:

I love the rejection wall!! Personally, I just delete them from my Submittable account immediately so it's like it °~*never even happened*~° ?

lol yes, I do this. 

Also, I'm sure that people are aware of the extremely long odds of getting accepted off the slush pile, but it bears mentioning: it is almost impossible (really, truly) to get an unsolicited submission published at a top journal, so don't let the rejects weigh you down in any way. The top tier university lit mags often have acceptance rates between 0 and 2%, to say nothing of truly public-facing publications like the Threepenny Review or even the NYer. The vast, vast majority of people published in these journals are either established writers, unestablished writers with agents, or people who already have or are getting their MFAs. This is probably not news to people, but, you know, just saying

I can't find it now, but I read this article recently by a former editorial assistant at an unnamed """top""" journal (author is now an editor at Harpers) in which the author talks about how, basically, during his time at this unnamed journal, only 1 unsolicited submission out of hundreds (thousands?) actually made it to publication. And even then, the author says, this one story was only begrudgingly accepted by the senior editors, who it seems did not publish unsolicited submissions, as a rule. Probably a better way of landing a first pub at a top journal is to submit to contests, though these are also becoming increasingly competitive, and the more competitive ones are usually won by established authors and/or people who already have or are getting their MFAs

tldr: Anyway, just a reminder to not beat yourselves up about this one thing. Also a reminder of the -- unfortunately quite immense! -- social/artistic capital an MFA can bestow. At the very least, it familiarizes you with the styles of contemporary literary fiction. At most, it could land you an agent. Either way, a gigantic leg up on the rest of us poor schmucks

[Michelle Zeller]

11 hours ago, spacedumpster said:

Here's my piece in The Molotov Cocktail. As is typically the case years after I write something, I now think it needs some heavy revision and expansion. ? Oh well. People read it as it is, and maybe some of them even liked it! Content Warning: cults, poisoning, drugs. Yeehaw.

https://themolotovcocktail.com/about/archive-vols-1-3/vol-8/vol-8-issue-18/rainbow-fungus-rainbow/

This was such a great start to your story. I've never read anything like it. It is so different from my favorite authors. Can you post the second page too? 

[mrvisser]

11 hours ago, spacedumpster said:

Here's my piece in The Molotov Cocktail. As is typically the case years after I write something, I now think it needs some heavy revision and expansion. ? Oh well. People read it as it is, and maybe some of them even liked it! Content Warning: cults, poisoning, drugs. Yeehaw.

https://themolotovcocktail.com/about/archive-vols-1-3/vol-8/vol-8-issue-18/rainbow-fungus-rainbow/

The other pieces were only in print, not online, but if you really want to read them I can send a PDF.  

As far as money goes, it varies widely. I'm told that bigger publications like The New Yorker and The Atlantic pay pretty well. Some magazines pay by the word, some by the page, some a flat rate for contributors. Smallerer journals generally seem to pay $20-100 for first rights to flash fiction, more for longer works. 

Poetry is not entirely my jive, so I can't really speak to that.

Dig the story! And the uniqueness of your voice, which comes through really well. It's such a different style compared to mine.

I don't have any fiction published yet, just lots and lots of news stories from my days in journalism.

[spacedumpster]

29 minutes ago, Michelle Zeller said:

This was such a great start to your story. I've never read anything like it. It is so different from my favorite authors. Can you post the second page too? 

Haha, that's all there was to it actually! The end. Thanks for reading!

Your desire for a second page might just be the impetus for me to finally build it out a bit more, though. I initially wrote the story for a workshop, and there are some choices I had to make to work within the constraints of the prompt. I think I could improve it with a little more free wheeling.

[spacedumpster]

14 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

Dig the story! And the uniqueness of your voice, which comes through really well. It's such a different style compared to mine.

I don't have any fiction published yet, just lots and lots of news stories from my days in journalism.

Thanks so much for the kind words. That's awesome you were in journalism! My grandfather was a newspaper reporter for many years. I wrote my very first stories on his electric typewriter as a kid. 

My sister completed her undergrad in journalism, and I research like mad whenever I'm working on a story, so I think the bug got us too!

[mrvisser]

Just now, spacedumpster said:

Thanks so much for the kind words. That's awesome you were in journalism! My grandfather was a newspaper reporter for many years. I wrote my very first stories on his electric typewriter as a kid. 

My sister completed her undergrad in journalism, and I research like mad whenever I'm working on a story, so I think the bug got us too!

I got my bachelor's in journalism because I really enjoyed politics, history, and writing, of course. I actually always wanted to do fiction, but I chose to major in journalism because I thought it was unrealistic that I would ever go anywhere in creative writing. This application season will tell whether it's still just a pipedream, but I got so burnt out on reporting after three years of doing it, and I found that having a less stable career and making less money while working on novels and short stories was a worthy tradeoff. I quit journalism about a year ago, and I've been much more fulfilled ever since.

[Michelle Zeller]

52 minutes ago, spacedumpster said:

Haha, that's all there was to it actually! The end. Thanks for reading!

I don't understand. How can a story be just one page? 

[Michelle Zeller]

Also, spacedumpster, can you explain what this means "To her mind, I know I am a vision of the antithesis of this scenario." I am used to easier and less sophisticated kind of stories. 

[Ydrl]

My my my~ y’all are so chatty lately! I’m happy that we’re finding solace in each other.

[pattycat]

19 hours ago, spacedumpster said:

Here's my piece in The Molotov Cocktail. As is typically the case years after I write something, I now think it needs some heavy revision and expansion. ? Oh well. People read it as it is, and maybe some of them even liked it! Content Warning: cults, poisoning, drugs. Yeehaw.

https://themolotovcocktail.com/about/archive-vols-1-3/vol-8/vol-8-issue-18/rainbow-fungus-rainbow/

 

Loved this! Amazing visuals. And your writing has such a great sound to it. 

[spacedumpster]

7 hours ago, Michelle Zeller said:

Also, spacedumpster, can you explain what this means "To her mind, I know I am a vision of the antithesis of this scenario." I am used to easier and less sophisticated kind of stories. 

Re: your question as to how a story can be just a page-- flash fiction is generally categorized as work under 1,000 words. There are even magazines which publish "micro fiction" exclusively, which usually maxes out at just 100 words! 

The meaning conveyed in that sentence is this: the narrator presents as a peaceful and enlightened free spirit, but is in reality the cold, antisocial leader of a death cult. That sentence is kind of clunky to be honest, so I get where your confusion stemmed from.

[spacedumpster]

4 hours ago, pattycat said:

Loved this! Amazing visuals. And your writing has such a great sound to it. 

Ugh, calm down with the praise, y'all! ? The inevitable MFA rejections around the bend are going to hit TOO hard if you keep stroking the ego I have worked so hard to suppress!

Genuinely, though, thank you all for your encouragement based just on this silly little story. I hope I get the chance to read work by each and every one of you at some point. 

[mrvisser]

18 minutes ago, spacedumpster said:

Ugh, calm down with the praise, y'all! ? The inevitable MFA rejections around the bend are going to hit TOO hard if you keep stroking the ego I have worked so hard to suppress!

Genuinely, though, thank you all for your encouragement based just on this silly little story. I hope I get the chance to read work by each and every one of you at some point. 

Haha well, for me at least, writing is a constant fluctuation between being an egotistical asshole and thinking I'm shit. If I get all rejections, I will simultaneously say "yeah, makes sense" and "why didn't those dumb bastards accept me?"

But regardless of admissions decisions you should feel good about the story!

[Michelle Zeller]

16 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

Haha well, for me at least, writing is a constant fluctuation between being an egotistical asshole and thinking I'm shit.

That reminds me of one of my favorite Danielle Steele quotes. “He fluctuated between delusions of grandeur and suspicions of worthlessness, while the rest of man hung out in the middle.” She is by far my favorite author. 

[FairleyAlfy]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:47 AM, spacedumpster said:

Here's my piece in The Molotov Cocktail. As is typically the case years after I write something, I now think it needs some heavy revision and expansion. ? Oh well. People read it as it is, and maybe some of them even liked it! Content Warning: cults, poisoning, drugs. Yeehaw.

https://themolotovcocktail.com/about/archive-vols-1-3/vol-8/vol-8-issue-18/rainbow-fungus-rainbow/

The other pieces were only in print, not online, but if you really want to read them I can send a PDF.  

As far as money goes, it varies widely. I'm told that bigger publications like The New Yorker and The Atlantic pay pretty well. Some magazines pay by the word, some by the page, some a flat rate for contributors. Smallerer journals generally seem to pay $20-100 for first rights to flash fiction, more for longer works. 

Poetry is not entirely my jive, so I can't really speak to that.

I LOVE your writing style. It's descriptive without being overwhelming and slowing down the plot. I am excited to read more from you in the future.

[Michelle Zeller]

13 hours ago, spacedumpster said:

Re: your question as to how a story can be just a page-- flash fiction is generally categorized as work under 1,000 words. There are even magazines which publish "micro fiction" exclusively, which usually maxes out at just 100 words! 

The meaning conveyed in that sentence is this: the narrator presents as a peaceful and enlightened free spirit, but is in reality the cold, antisocial leader of a death cult. That sentence is kind of clunky to be honest, so I get where your confusion stemmed from.

Can someone tell me more about flash fiction? I don't understand why they would want stories so short. Don't you need more space for stuff to happen? How can you reduce a 500 page novel to just 1000 words? Do they first write a whole novel and then shrink it?

Also, spacedumpster, can you explain. Danielle Steele's 1000 page novels say things like "She thought he wasn't the type." Why do flash fiction writers change this to "To her mind, I know I am a vision of the antithesis of this scenario." I wonder what other types of writing I haven't found yet.  

[FairleyAlfy]

10 hours ago, Michelle Zeller said:

Can someone tell me more about flash fiction? I don't understand why they would want stories so short. Don't you need more space for stuff to happen? How can you reduce a 500 page novel to just 1000 words? Do they first write a whole novel and then shrink it?

Also, spacedumpster, can you explain. Danielle Steele's 1000 page novels say things like "She thought he wasn't the type." Why do flash fiction writers change this to "To her mind, I know I am a vision of the antithesis of this scenario." I wonder what other types of writing I haven't found yet.  

Flash fiction writers don't reduce a novel to 500 words. It's two different types of writing. It's like saying, "Can you turn a poem into a novel?" Maybe, but it would be harder to do. Essentially, you could shrink a novel to 500 words, but it wouldn't be necessary to write a good flash fiction piece, also that method would be mind-numbing and harder to do. 

I enjoy reading flash fiction, novellas, and short stories because I'm usually a very busy person before I was jobless, and I still wanted to read. While drinking my coffee in the mornings before work, I would usually sit down and read a short story or flash fiction because it still satisfies that hunger for reading, but it doesn't take the whole day like reading a novel does. Also, people enjoy reading flash fiction because they might have ADHD or some other attention deficit disorder, and cannot focus long enough to read a novel, but they still want to read and enjoy a well-written story. 

I honestly think it takes more talent to write an entire story in less than 1,000 words than writing a novel. It is extremely hard to do. 

To me, the two quotes you are comparing are completely different sentences. Comparing Steele's writing to Spacedumpster's is like comparing (excuse me for the cliche) oranges and apples. I like Spacedumpster's writing for the complexity of it. I'm not a fan of Steele's writing, but I understand why many people are. It is just not the type of literature I like. That's what makes writing fun is that every person has different tastes in literature. Books would be platitudinous if everyone wrote the same. The sentence, "To her mind, I know I am a vision of the antithesis of this scenario," is not a depiction of what flash fiction is or what flash fiction writers write but rather, a part of the story. It could also be in a novel of Spacedumpster's as well. Every flash fiction writer is different. 

This might just be a confusing, jumbled mess of a comment, but I hope I have helped you understand why there is flash fiction out there. I didn't sleep well again because of what happened at the capitol yesterday. It almost feels weird to type words or do anything normal after yesterday. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by FairleyAlfy

[bettedavisthighs]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:27 PM, ZaytandLabna said:

Gotchya. I really hope you get in!!! 

haha the beach is like an hour drive unfortunately. Not too bad though.

I would LOVE that!! already drive an hour every day to get to work, wouldn't mind the drive! I don't imagine you're too far though. Weathers been really nice and cool. Says it'll stay like this for the next couple of days. Enjoying it while it lasts! 

whats uppp fellow floridians (and everyone else in this group)!!! I did my undergrad in NYC (hiiii @largeheartedboy its RK) and am back here (pinellas county) in the weird MFA app process gap year. i didn't apply to any nyc schools for a few reasons. the main one: i lost my job during the first months of lockdown and my partner was ready to leave after a decade there, so we moved back to be near family when our lease was up. looking forward to beach-filled summer to either celebrate my future plans or drown my sorrows with rum runners. hopefully we can meet up (somewhere far away from I-4) sometime this summer. <3

[spacedumpster]

3 hours ago, FairleyAlfy said:

Flash fiction writers don't reduce a novel to 500 words. It's two different types of writing. It's like saying, "Can you turn a poem into a novel?" Maybe, but it would be harder to do. Essentially, you could shrink a novel to 500 words, but it wouldn't be necessary to write a good flash fiction piece, also that method would be mind-numbing and harder to do. 

I enjoy reading flash fiction, novellas, and short stories because I'm usually a very busy person before I was jobless, and I still wanted to read. While drinking my coffee in the mornings before work, I would usually sit down and read a short story or flash fiction because it still satisfies that hunger for reading, but it doesn't take the whole day like reading a novel does. Also, people enjoy reading flash fiction because they might have ADHD or some other attention deficit disorder, and cannot focus long enough to read a novel, but they still want to read and enjoy a well-written story. 

I honestly think it takes more talent to write an entire story in less than 1,000 words than writing a novel. It is extremely hard to do. 

To me, the two quotes you are comparing are completely different sentences. Comparing Steele's writing to Spacedumpster's is like comparing (excuse me for the cliche) oranges and apples. I like Spacedumpster's writing for the complexity of it. I'm not a fan of Steele's writing, but I understand why many people are. It is just not the type of literature I like. That's what makes writing fun is that every person has different tastes in literature. Books would be platitudinous if everyone wrote the same. The sentence, "To her mind, I know I am a vision of the antithesis of this scenario," is not a depiction of what flash fiction is or what flash fiction writers write but rather, a part of the story. It could also be in a novel of Spacedumpster's as well. Every flash fiction writer is different. 

This might just be a confusing, jumbled mess of a comment, but I hope I have helped you understand why there is flash fiction out there. I didn't sleep well again because of what happened at the capitol yesterday. It almost feels weird to type words or do anything normal after yesterday. 

Yeesh, the more I keep reading that line I wrote, the more it irks me. Hahaha. Think I'm gonna change that to "vision of cognitive dissonance." Some nice internal rhyme going on, better rhythm. Yes. Please replace that sentence in your brains now, everyone. ?

[largeheartedboy]

5 hours ago, FairleyAlfy said:

I enjoy reading flash fiction, novellas, and short stories because I'm usually a very busy person before I was jobless, and I still wanted to read. While drinking my coffee in the mornings before work, I would usually sit down and read a short story or flash fiction because it still satisfies that hunger for reading, but it doesn't take the whole day like reading a novel does. Also, people enjoy reading flash fiction because they might have ADHD or some other attention deficit disorder, and cannot focus long enough to read a novel, but they still want to read and enjoy a well-written story. 

If you are looking for more flash stories, I have an original flash fiction series on my website, Flash Dancers: Ekphrastic Singles, stories inspired by songs, curated by the author Meg Pokrass.

 

[ZaytandLabna]

ahh hii!! Welcome back to Florida!!! oh wow the three of us are pretty close to each other considering how big Florida is. 

I'm sorry to hear about losing your job : ( I'm happy ya'll are able to be near family! Ooh yess you are much closer to the beach than @Greitheand I.  

it will be celebrating!! you got this. 

Yesss, we could even do a zoom idk if that sounds weird. But I'd be down for either!! 

[unfortunate ith]

Apologies if this has already come up, but the beach talk got me wondering: Did many of you think about climate/location when deciding where to apply? Or, to put it differently, were there places you didn't apply specifically because of their location, and/or programs you were on the fence about but the location pushed you to a "yes"?

[mrvisser]

17 minutes ago, unfortunate ith said:

Apologies if this has already come up, but the beach talk got me wondering: Did many of you think about climate/location when deciding where to apply? Or, to put it differently, were there places you didn't apply specifically because of their location, and/or programs you were on the fence about but the location pushed you to a "yes"?

Absolutely. There are a bunch of schools I didn't apply to because of their location, even though the programs themselves interested me. Notre Dame and Mississippi are lower on my list because they're kind of remote. Iowa is Iowa, so I wouldn't complain about living in a small town in that case, but I'd be excited about my other choices being in Austin, St. Louis, Nashville, and Seattle, even though I've lived in the latter for the past six years.

Edited January 8, 2021 by mrvisser

[Ydrl]

48 minutes ago, unfortunate ith said:

Apologies if this has already come up, but the beach talk got me wondering: Did many of you think about climate/location when deciding where to apply? Or, to put it differently, were there places you didn't apply specifically because of their location, and/or programs you were on the fence about but the location pushed you to a "yes"?

God yes. I only applied to places where I thought I would be comfortable, whether that means climate, political views, friendliness of the program...etc. I didn’t apply to West Virginia because I refuse.