2021 Applicants Forum

[goodcynara]

On 1/31/2021 at 6:47 PM, fishfish24 said:

Hey all--

I've mostly just been quietly grateful for the company since joining this group, but I thought I'd chime in briefly...

A lot of people seem to be experiencing some degree of agony over the fact they haven't heard back yet and/or are expressing the expectation that they'll be hearing back really soon. (For whatever reason, I've been feeling that with each passing day my chances of being accepted are somehow declining, which I have to remember to laugh at myself for because this belief has zero ties to logic!). Anyway, I just wanted to gently remind people the same thing I'm reminding myself: it's actually too early to be hearing back from most of these programs. I'm sure the info below isn't perfect, but here's the data I put together by combing through the past 3-4 years or so of gradcafe and other forums where applicants have posted about receiving offers for programs I've applied to. (It also includes the dates I was waitlisted at Michener, Minnesota, and Madison-Wisconsin last year). Just hoping the extra info might bring some of you a little peace of mind! The programs are ordered by earliest date of earliest documented acceptance:

Minnesota:

     Earliest acceptance: January 26*

     My waitlist 2019: January 29, 2020

*It seems worth mentioning that Minnesota extended their deadline this year and has had to recalibrate their entire funding program due to covid, so I suspect their responses will be late...

Syracuse:

     Earliest acceptance: January 29

Madison-Wisconsin:

     Earliest acceptance: February 3

     My waitlist response: February 18

Florida (Miami) :

     Earliest acceptance: February 12

Vanderbilt:

     Earliest acceptance: February 13

Michener:

     Earliest acceptance: Feb 14

     My waitlist: Feb 18, 2020

New Writer's Project:

     Earliest acceptance: Feb 14

Helen Zell/ Michigan:

     Earliest acceptance: February 15

Florida (Gainsville):

     Earliest acceptance: February 15

Iowa:

     Earliest acceptance: February 17

Notre Dame:

     Earliest acceptance: February 22

Brown:

     Earliest acceptance: March 5

 

Wishing everyone good luck and peace of mind. 

This is really generous, and no small amount of work. Thank you.

[chaes]

 

2 hours ago, jka0124 said:

PoFo frustrates the hell out of me. I was always cautious around them (just because they have so much power and not a lot of diversity) but this is really bad. I’ve seen some strong arguments on both sides about where we draw the line in publishing and how nebulous that can be. But I don’t think it should be controversial to not publish friggin’ pedos. Like can we all agree that’s a perfectly fine line to draw? ?

Didn't know about the controversy surrounding Poetry Foundation until I saw the posts in this thread. Interesting to follow, as it seems it's become a movement to provide a platform to share the voices of incarcerated individuals. I'm reading and learning more about it, so I don't have a stance on it right now, but I'm torn between a few thoughts and questions: 1) It seems like the purpose for providing a platform for the thoughts and voices of incarcerated persons is for the public to recognize them as individuals with a selfhood that transcends their crime 2) How do you draw the line, if at all, to determine which incarcerated individuals to publish? I mention the if at all part because if the primary purpose is to assert that incarcerated people are defined by more than their crimes, is it best to follow through on that purpose no matter what crime they're imprisoned for? If lines are drawn, is it a bit like playing god if you pick and choose?  Or maybe each journal or organization takes an individual stance and draws their own line depending on their values?

Curious to hear other people's thoughts. 

Currently mulling over this article: Poetry magazine published a child porn convict in its prison issue, but did it deserve the backlash? (slate.com) 

[NLake]

Does anyone else have schools on their list that stated official transcripts aren’t required unless you’re accepted, and yet the application says “awaiting” or “not received” under transcripts? I know it makes sense for the graduate college side of things to keep track of what materials they need to collect should students receive an acceptance. But boy it’s got me scared I was misinformed and needed to send in the officials for my application to be sent over to the department for review. I suppose a simple phone call or email could solve my problem here, but I feel like there’s not much I could do about it now, and would rather remain hopeful that I’m just overthinking as usual! 

[chaes]

Just now, NLake said:

Does anyone else have schools on their list that stated official transcripts aren’t required unless you’re accepted, and yet the application says “awaiting” or “not received” under transcripts? I know it makes sense for the graduate college side of things to keep track of what materials they need to collect should students receive an acceptance. But boy it’s got me scared I was misinformed and needed to send in the officials for my application to be sent over to the department for review. I suppose a simple phone call or email could solve my problem here, but I feel like there’s not much I could do about it now, and would rather remain hopeful that I’m just overthinking as usual! 

I have that for LSU, but I also have an email from the director of the graduate program confirming I can wait on requesting an official transcript until decisions come out. If you want a peace of mind, I'd just reach out to confirm!

[NLake]

18 minutes ago, chaes said:

I have that for LSU, but I also have an email from the director of the graduate program confirming I can wait on requesting an official transcript until decisions come out. If you want a peace of mind, I'd just reach out to confirm!

Yeah, I really should just reach out. I know with UAF it was a system error (wasn’t prompting folx to upload unofficials, so I had to email them in to admissions), and I’ve received confirmation from two others that my app was sent on to the department for review. I guess if I just ask then I won’t have to wonder! 

[sylviaplate]

Any recommendations on poems dealing with grief? I just experienced a really difficult, unexpected loss of a family member and am wondering what people have turned to for comfort or what ya’ll think best articulates the feeling. Short stories or essays also welcome, if you feel so inclined.

[goodcynara]

Those of you who are accepted to multiple programs, or who are holding out for an answer from a first choice program, may find this info from the U-W Madison MFA Admissions page useful (sorry for the huge font - couldn't seem to get out of it after cutting and pasting from the site!):

Wisconsin Protocol

Like most institutions with a graduate program in creative writing, the University of Wisconsin-Madison is a member of the Council of Graduate Schools and as such is bound to the following resolution: "Students are under no obligation to respond to offers of financial support prior to April 15; earlier deadlines for acceptance of such offers violate the intent of this Resolution." You can see the full resolution as well as a list of council members by clicking here.

We at Wisconsin advise any applicant who is feeling pressured to accept another MFA program's offer before the April 15th deadline to simply send the program a friendly email that states, "I see that your institution is a member of the Council of Graduate Schools. As such, I believe that I have the right to consider your offer up until the April 15th deadline as established by the council. Thanks so much!" Most universities are big places where one hand doesn’t know what the other hand is doing. Showing them you know your rights will help ensure that your rights are respected. At Wisconsin, our promise is simple:

• We will make our decisions by March 15th.
• Should you be placed on our waitlist, we will tell you up front. We won't put off giving you an answer about your status simply so we won't have to tell you you've been waitlisted.
• While we will tell you if you are on our waitlist, we will not discuss the nature of the waitlist, e.g. how many students are on it, where a particular student’s place is.
• We will respect the April 15th deadline as established by the Council of Graduate Schools.
• Out of respect to you, (not lack of interest!) we will not call you repeatedly just to "check in with you" to see if you've made a decision.
• All our students are fully funded, which means we won't at any time threaten to yank or alter funding to pressure you to say yes before April 15th.

 

Finally, we urge all MFA applicants to know their rights and to ask the schools they're applying to in advance if they are members of the Council of Graduate Schools. If they're not familiar with the CGS's resolution, send them a link to this page. We hope that by spreading the word regarding applicants' rights, all students can begin their graduate studies on the right path.

[dreamx]

6 minutes ago, goodcynara said:

Those of you who are accepted to multiple programs, or who are holding out for an answer from a first choice program, may find this info from the U-W Madison MFA Admissions page useful (sorry for the huge font - couldn't seem to get out of it after cutting and pasting from the site!):

This is super helpful info - thank you for sharing!

[fishfish24]

35 minutes ago, sylviaplate said:

Any recommendations on poems dealing with grief? I just experienced a really difficult, unexpected loss of a family member and am wondering what people have turned to for comfort or what ya’ll think best articulates the feeling. Short stories or essays also welcome, if you feel so inclined.

I'm so sorry for your loss. My former partner died two years ago, unexpectedly, at thirty. I'm not sure this poem ("Toadstools," by Charles Wright) is one which answers to a new, raw grief, but over time it has brought me more comfort than anything else. The idea of death and grief as something nothing touches or wants to touch strangely comforted my early sense of isolation. And the poem still helps me dismantle the belief that grief is something we're supposed to move past, something which is supposed to be logical in the times and places it arrives. When the pain hits me, brutally, at the most unexpected moments, I find myself comforted by the final lines of this poem:

"Grief is a floating barge-boat,

                                                    who knows where it's going to moor?"

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/05/10/toadstools

[goodcynara]

37 minutes ago, sylviaplate said:

Any recommendations on poems dealing with grief? I just experienced a really difficult, unexpected loss of a family member and am wondering what people have turned to for comfort or what ya’ll think best articulates the feeling. Short stories or essays also welcome, if you feel so inclined.

I am so sorry to hear this. My whole project is about grief resulting from the traumatic, sudden loss of my little sister to suicide. I hope to write the thing I needed when it happened and couldn't find. I still haven't found anything that really nails it for me, but depending on your taste, you might check out Forrest Gander's "Be With," C.S. Lewis' "A Grief Observed," and Max Porter's "Grief is the Thing With Feathers." Allie Brosh's new illustrated book of cartoons, "Solutions and Other Problems" has a chapter on the loss of her sister, who drove her car in front of a train. (Much of the rest of Brosh's book will make you howl with laughter.) Every loss is different. A woman in my writer's group said that when she lost her mother, Mary Oliver's "In Blackwater Woods" kept her sane. I've pasted it below. Love to you and your family in this difficult time. 

 

Look, the trees are turning their own bodies into pillars   of light, are giving off the rich fragrance of cinnamon and fulfillment,   the long tapers of cattails are bursting and floating away over the blue shoulders   of the ponds, and every pond, no matter what its name is, is   nameless now. Every year everything I have ever learned   in my lifetime leads back to this: the fires and the black river of loss whose other side   is salvation, whose meaning none of us will ever know. To live in this world   you must be able to do three things: to love what is mortal; to hold it   against your bones knowing your own life depends on it; and, when the time comes to let it go, to let it go.
Mary Oliver In Blackwater Woods

 

[goodcynara]

2 minutes ago, fishfish24 said:

I'm so sorry for your loss. My former partner died two years ago, unexpectedly, at thirty. I'm not sure this poem ("Toadstools," by Charles Wright) is one which answers to a new, raw grief, but over time it has brought me more comfort than anything else. The idea of death and grief as something nothing touches or wants to touch strangely comforted my early sense of isolation. And the poem still helps me dismantle the belief that grief is something we're supposed to move past, something which is supposed to be logical in the times and places it arrives. When the pain hits me, brutally, at the most unexpected moments, I find myself comforted by the final lines of this poem:

"Grief is a floating barge-boat,

                                                    who knows where it's going to moor?"

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/05/10/toadstools

I am terribly sorry to hear of the loss of your partner, especially so young. Dismantling the belief that grief is something we're supposed to move past is crucial. This poem raked a few more dead leaves out of every cell of my body. Thank you.

[goodcynara]

18 minutes ago, dreamx said:

This is super helpful info - thank you for sharing!

My pleasure. Respect to U-W Madison for their forthrightness and clarity!

[Botanica]

2 hours ago, chaes said:

 

Didn't know about the controversy surrounding Poetry Foundation until I saw the posts in this thread. Interesting to follow, as it seems it's become a movement to provide a platform to share the voices of incarcerated individuals. I'm reading and learning more about it, so I don't have a stance on it right now, but I'm torn between a few thoughts and questions: 1) It seems like the purpose for providing a platform for the thoughts and voices of incarcerated persons is for the public to recognize them as individuals with a selfhood that transcends their crime 2) How do you draw the line, if at all, to determine which incarcerated individuals to publish? I mention the if at all part because if the primary purpose is to assert that incarcerated people are defined by more than their crimes, is it best to follow through on that purpose no matter what crime they're imprisoned for? If lines are drawn, is it a bit like playing god if you pick and choose?  Or maybe each journal or organization takes an individual stance and draws their own line depending on their values?

Curious to hear other people's thoughts. 

Currently mulling over this article: Poetry magazine published a child porn convict in its prison issue, but did it deserve the backlash? (slate.com) 

I really appreciate your thoughts here! I think that at the end of the Slate article, Reginald Dwayne Betts said it best, "The problem here, he said, is that the blind submission perpetuates the same inequities that are always present in Poetry’s selection process. “Poetry already privileges access and opportunity. Blind submission? It’s gonna privilege folks that have more access to that skill development, whether it’s an MFA or a prison program. The inclusion of this cat is more evidence that the process didn’t work.”

The issue for me isn't highlighting the voices of incarcerated people, but more so the lack of accountability and insight within PoFo. It just sucks that out of all of the incarcerated people they could have chosen to highlight, they chose a sick white man with a PhD who already has had privileges beyond what others in the system could have hoped for. I'm definitely not qualified to weigh in on this in a decisive way, and I don't think that this situation is black and white. At the end of the day, I believe that PoFo could have, and should have, done better.

[mrvisser]

1 hour ago, sylviaplate said:

Any recommendations on poems dealing with grief? I just experienced a really difficult, unexpected loss of a family member and am wondering what people have turned to for comfort or what ya’ll think best articulates the feeling. Short stories or essays also welcome, if you feel so inclined.

I can only speak to a longer piece, which is a Joan Didion memoir, The Year of Magical Thinking. It really changed my perception of what mourning looks like. It's very nuanced and was written after her husband unexpectedly passed. 

So sorry to hear about your loss.

[Pinskadan]

1 hour ago, sylviaplate said:

Any recommendations on poems dealing with grief? I just experienced a really difficult, unexpected loss of a family member and am wondering what people have turned to for comfort or what ya’ll think best articulates the feeling. Short stories or essays also welcome, if you feel so inclined.

I'm so sorry for your loss, and hope you can find comfort wherever possible. Seconding @goodcynara's recommendation of Forrest Gander's Be With; its first poem absolutely takes my breath away. I'd also recommend Diana Khoi Nguyen's Ghost Of (which deals with the sudden suicide of her little brother) and Victoria Chang's OBIT (which uses the obituary format as a way to cope with her mother's death.) 

[goodcynara]

7 minutes ago, Pinskadan said:

I'm so sorry for your loss, and hope you can find comfort wherever possible. Seconding @goodcynara's recommendation of Forrest Gander's Be With; its first poem absolutely takes my breath away. I'd also recommend Diana Khoi Nguyen's Ghost Of (which deals with the sudden suicide of her little brother) and Victoria Chang's OBIT (which uses the obituary format as a way to cope with her mother's death.) 

I second "Obit." Thank you for hipping me to "Ghost Of" -- I just ordered it.

[gustavman]

3 hours ago, chaes said:

1) It seems like the purpose for providing a platform for the thoughts and voices of incarcerated persons is for the public to recognize them as individuals with a selfhood that transcends their crime 2) How do you draw the line, if at all, to determine which incarcerated individuals to publish? I mention the if at all part because if the primary purpose is to assert that incarcerated people are defined by more than their crimes, is it best to follow through on that purpose no matter what crime they're imprisoned for? If lines are drawn, is it a bit like playing god if you pick and choose?  Or maybe each journal or organization takes an individual stance and draws their own line depending on their values?

Curious to hear other people's thoughts. 

Since you're curious, I'll give my two minute analysis. 

If you are going to have equal justice for all, then you have to have a list of crimes that make you unpublishable. Immigration has a ridiculously complicated system for which crimes will get you deported. If murder is the only crime with capital punishment, it has to be assumed to be the worst crime. So if you are banning for child porn crimes, you have to ban for murder. Then you’ll have to look at crime after crime and pick an arbitrary line. All sex crimes, domestic violence, all assaults, drunk driving insider trading. I can see someone saying Bernie Madoff should be unpublishable. There is no great system, other than that people shouldn't do crime, and then everyone will be happy. One answer is to say no prison issue altogether. There is some governor I can’t remember who wants prisoners to be the last ones to get COVID vaccines even if they are most risk. It’s odd because liberals are often pro prisoner rights, while liberals flip with particular crimes like child porn.

 

 

 

[JPReinhold]

1 minute ago, gustavman said:

Since you're curious, I'll give my two minute analysis. 

If you are going to have equal justice for all, then you have to have a list of crimes that make you unpublishable. Immigration has a ridiculously complicated system for which crimes will get you deported. If murder is the only crime with capital punishment, it has to be assumed to be the worst crime. So if you are banning for child porn crimes, you have to ban for murder. Then you’ll have to look at crime after crime and pick an arbitrary line. All sex crimes, domestic violence, all assaults, drunk driving insider trading. I can see someone saying Bernie Madoff should be unpublishable. There is no great system, other than that people shouldn't do crime, and then everyone will be happy. One answer is to say no prison issue altogether. There is some governor I can’t remember who wants prisoners to be the last ones to get COVID vaccines even if they are most risk. It’s odd because liberals are often pro prisoner rights, while liberals flip with particular crimes like child porn.

 

 

 

I don’t know if this makes any difference to your “devil’s advocate” approach, but this person also used their position as a poet to commit these crimes. I don’t want to elaborate as you have google, but giving a platform back to someone who once used it to prey upon children is wrong under every moral code, I would have to think. 

[gustavman]

8 minutes ago, JPReinhold said:

I don’t know if this makes any difference to your “devil’s advocate” approach, but this person also used their position as a poet to commit these crimes. I don’t want to elaborate as you have google, but giving a platform back to someone who once used it to prey upon children is wrong under every moral code, I would have to think. 

I know nothing of the facts. 

But when the issue comes should we take someone’s dental license away, we do consider whether they were convicted of groping a patient in the chair or groping someone on a date, whether they committed dental insurance fraud or unrelated tax fraud. The theory is, if he committed a dental crime, he might do another dental crime. The theory is not any crime related to dentistry is worse than one unrelated to dentistry.

There is no real principle behind the theory to bar someone who committed a dentistry crime, while letting stay someone who committed a non-dentistry crime that is morally worse.

So you say he committed basically a poetry crime. A crime is not worse because it relates to poetry. Poetry is not a sacrosanct religion. A temple was not besmirched. It would be equally evil if his crime involved no poetry.

And barring him from poetry doesn’t protect the public any, unless you believe he can use poetry for more child porn.

[mrvisser]

17 minutes ago, gustavman said:

Since you're curious, I'll give my two minute analysis. 

Damn, bro, you were quick in getting that new account. I like the username.

[gustavman]

Just now, mrvisser said:

Damn, bro, you were quick in getting that new account. I like the username.

Yeah, things got so quiet here for a few hours. And then the off topic posts on Victorian houses seemed like ignoring the elephant in the room. I couldn't help feel partially responsible.

Ydrl coined the name. I can take no credit. 

[tippybug]

On 2/4/2021 at 3:14 PM, WolfMan said:

Lmao have you been on the internet before? In my experience there is no shortage of energy-leeching trolls.

No this is my first time actually ^______^ ❤️

[tippybug]

This is a long rant but I really want to say this to someone: I feel like I am at such a crossroads in life right now. What I want more than anything is to get into a good MFA program and be a writer, but since I got such a good offer from a top program in CS, I feel like I can't turn that down. I've put so much time into programming and have met so many peers/mentors who seem to expect so much from me and who I want to make proud. Like, my research mentor is so amazing, and the school I got into is where she got her PhD, and oh my gosh I just want to make her proud! But I just can't believe such a good program saw something they liked in my application even though I feel like I haven't put my heart into programming at all

It honestly makes me feel so guilty because CS has always been plan b in my mind, and I haven't shown it any passion, even though it is something i care about. I really care about being a good computer scientist because I think that it can make the world a better place, but I just feel so resentful of my place in CS because it is what I'm doing instead of writing. I always feel so distracted and disengaged with CS because I want to be an author. But I feel like I'm about to waste an amazing opportunity if I turn this offer down, and I don't know what to do.

And this is all super assumptive anyway, there is still a really good chance I won't get into any good MFA programs in which case I will totally take the offer. I just don't know what to make of things! I have so much impostor's syndrome right now. I feel totally unprepared to be a graduate student in CS, ESPECIALLY A TA, and I feel guilty both taking the offer and NOT taking the offer. ARGH!!! Sorry if this sounds braggy about getting into a program. I know I am really lucky to have gotten this offer, and I really don't want to take it for granted.

Anyone have any words of wisdom? Sorry for this sloppy vent post... I'm a little fried rn, hehe.

Edited February 5, 2021 by tippybug

[aheather]

34 minutes ago, gustavman said:

I know nothing of the facts. 

it's a good idea to not throw out your opinion until you've got at least those straight, just as a matter of general policy.

this is a nuanced, painful situation. to talk about it with due care requires understanding where people's hurt is coming from.

[Ydrl]

17 minutes ago, tippybug said:

It honestly makes me feel so guilty because CS has always been plan b in my mind, and I haven't shown it any passion, even though it is something i care about. I really care about being a good computer scientist because I think that it can make the world a better place, but I just feel so resentful of my place in CS because it is what I'm doing instead of writing. I always feel so distracted and disengaged with CS because I want to be an author. But I feel like I'm about to waste an amazing opportunity if I turn this offer down, and I don't know what to do.

I'm a little fried rn, hehe.

I was working to become a genetic engineer for a good chunk of my college career. Even though I went a different path, genetics (and science in general), enchants me to this day. The style of research that I do is quite similar to how I researched when I was a science student. I know it wasn’t right for me though, because of how exhausted and upset I was. Despite having awesome friends, a reasonable college schedule, and decent grades, something was off. I was so convinced I had to be a science student (I got a 32 on the science ACT) that I just forgot what makes me the happiest.

I changed my major 10 times until I reached English and suddenly when I started that program it clicked. This is what I wanted so badly, a place where I could write and explore my creativity where it would be rewarded. The rigid system of science reminds me of a cage. I’m definitely not gonna keep my writing from reaching it’s true potential because of my passing scientific interests. Like I did for years. And I can’t do it anymore.

I’m not sure if that helps, if not, sorry for the ramble.