2021 Applicants Forum

[eternalwhitenights]

1 hour ago, frock said:

A certain group think developed here. The regulars only post to promise everyone will get in everywhere. Either that or they fall back into vagueness like you do when you promise "greater things." One person reads what the last one posts, and they all start thinking that is normal and certainly true. If you don't make one of these two posts, everyone barks that it must be marshall. 

Look, marshall/frock, one thing I have noticed is that you seem to be coming from a place of pain in your posts. I'm not sure if you're bored, or you're burnt out, or someone told you once that your writing wasn't up to par, or what. I have no idea where your pain stems from, and I don't want to judge you, because I don't know your story. If you want to share anything, I'm happy to listen, if you're going through something, but regardless, just because you're disillusioned, it doesn't mean the rest of us have to be. 

I'm wondering if you're maybe someone that was told it wasn't okay to fail, and you just kind of go through life expecting bad sh*t to happen to you. (Not saying you are; it's just a hunch on my end.) I get it (if that is indeed what you're going through); you know, it took me a really, really long time to forgive myself for some choices I made in my past that went against my values, and sometimes I still struggle with bracing myself for things to just come collapsing down around me again, because hoping again after you've gone through some crap is really, really, really hard, and requires the most courageous thing anyone can do: being vulnerable again. That means you risk, well, risk, and you risk being hurt. If you harden and numb yourself, though, and retreat into your shell, ultimately, you deprive yourself of the depth of the human experience, because in avoiding the pain and numbing yourself, you also throttle your capacity to experience deep, freewheeling joy at its lifesource: your heart. I don't know about you, but living in perpetual gray and trudging through life seems pretty bleary to me.

Ultimately, too, to be even more cliche ?, I think so much of it really boils down to how it is all about perspective. The thing is, life, and people, ultimately, are fundamentally good. I know you've mentioned a couple of times giving "false promises" to people via encouragement; have you thought about reframing that perspective and viewing that expression of positivity from a place of anchoring yourself in a belief that good, that love, ultimately is the force that courses through the fabric of our world, and that it's okay to believe that, in the end, love and hope do triumph, and win? I would argue that asserting that truth doesn't warrant a notion of false promises; it simply means that despair, and hopelessness do not get the last say, and that even if you can't see it in the moment, even if it all looks bleak, lost, thrashed about and gray, hope always finds a place to sprout through.

For a more practical example, think of a rainbow after a storm, or how a forest fire can be regenerative. (In the case of the forest fire process, at first glance, it seems to destroy everything in its path, but what's going on underneath the surface, is that the heat of the fire is actually what activates the melting of the coating of the serotinously-covered seeds in the very plants the fire is burning down in its destruction, and that heat and that force catapults and scatters those seeds into the earth around it, so, in the end, the very element that seemed to destroy the vegetation and the life in the forest, actually, through and in its burning process, activated the release of new seeds and new life in its wake. Even in destruction, new life springs forth.)

I hope that however you have been hurt or are hurting heals, and that you don't stop believing in yourself. I'm just letting you know right now, that none of us on this board are going to treat this process as if everything is effed and there's no hope at all. We're a tenacious bunch, and if you'd like to join us, awesome. If not, I mean, there's no other way to say it, but you're truly just wasting your time on here, because we're not going to entertain or engage with your premise that all is effed when it comes to MFA processes.

I hope you choose to hope, and to have faith in yourself. Sometimes, it doesn't turn out how we expected, but how do you know something better isn't right around the corner, something that may have never been possible if your past plans had succeeded in the interim? 

I hope you have a nice day, marshall/frock, and I hope you don't give up. You're worth more than despair, and so are the rest of us on this forum as well.

Best of luck. ❤️

Edited February 26, 2021 by eternalwhitenights

[Ydrl]

1 minute ago, eternalwhitenights said:

Look, marshall/frock, one thing I have noticed is that you seem to be coming from a place of pain in your posts. I'm not sure if you're bored, or you're burnt out, or someone told you once that your writing wasn't up to par, or what. I have no idea where your pain stems from, and I don't want to judge you, because I don't know your story. If you want to share anything, I'm happy to listen, if you're going through something, but regardless, just because you're disillusioned, it doesn't mean the rest of us have to be. 

I'm wondering if you're maybe someone that was told it wasn't okay to fail, and you just kind of go through life expecting bad sh*t to happen to you. (Not saying you are; it's just a hunch on my end.) I get it (if that is indeed what you're going through); you know, it took me a really, really long time to forgive myself for some choices I made in my past that went against my values, and sometimes I still struggle with bracing myself for things to just come collapsing down around me, because hoping again after you've gone through some crap is really, really, really hard, and requires the most courageous thing anyone can do: be vulnerable again. That means you risk, well, risk, and you risk being hurt. If you harden and numb yourself, though, and retreat into your shell, ultimately, you deprive yourself of the depth of the human experience, because in avoiding the pain and numbing yourself, you also throttle your capacity to experience deep, freewheeling joy at its lifesource: your heart. I don't know about you, but living in perpetual gray and trudging through life seems pretty bleary to me.

Ultimately, too, to be even more cliche ?, I think so much of it really boils down to how it is all about perspective. The thing is, life, and people, ultimately, are fundamentally good. I know you've mentioned a couple of times giving "false promises" to people via encouragement; have you thought about reframing that perspective and viewing that expression of positivity from a place of anchoring yourself in a belief that good, that love, ultimately is the force that courses through the fabric of our world, and that it's okay to believe that, in the end, love and hope do triumph, and win? I would argue that asserting that truth doesn't warrant a notion of false promises; it simply means that despair, and hopelessness do not get the last say, and that even if you can't see it in the moment, even if it all looks bleak, lost, thrashed about and gray, hope always finds a place to sprout through.

For a more practical example, think of a rainbow after a storm, or how a forest fire can be regenerative. (In the case of the forest fire process, at first glance, it seems to destroy everything in its path, but what's going on underneath the surface, is that the heat of the fire is actually what activates the melting of the coating of the serotinously-covered seeds in the very plants the fire is burning down in its destruction, and that heat and that force catapults and scatters those seeds into the earth around it, so, in the end, the very element that seemed to destroy the vegetation and the life in the forest, actually, through and in its burning process, activated the release of new seeds and new life in its wake. Even in destruction, new life springs forth.)

I hope that however you have been hurt or are hurting heals, and that you don't stop believing in yourself. I'm just letting you know right now, that none of us on this board are going to treat this process as if everything is effed and there's no hope at all. We're a tenacious bunch, and if you'd like to join us, awesome. If not, I mean, there's no other way to say it, but you're truly just wasting your time on here, because we're not going to entertain or engage with your premise that all is effed when it comes to MFA processes.

I hope you choose to hope, and to have faith in yourself. Sometimes, it doesn't turn out how we expected, but how do you know something better isn't right around the corner, something that may have never been possible if your past plans had succeeded in the interim? 

I hope you have a nice day, marshall/frock, and I hope you don't give up. You're worth more than despair, and so are the rest of us on this forum as well.

Best of luck. ❤️

As much as I hope that’ll get through to them, I’m 99% sure that person is gonna keep going. If they do, I’m sorry hon

[funfettuccine]

35 minutes ago, frock said:

But here they hardly confine themselves to telling people that admission odds are low, but there is joy regardless. They go much further, for instance censoring truth in the name of the greater good or political correctness.

Suppose someone says that an MFA does not increase your earning power; that the people who went into debt for an MFA universally regret it; that only a fool would pay Columbia $70K/year in tuition instead of applying elsewhere next year. They censor that upon the theory that it could ruin someone’s mood, and true or not, comes from someone in pain.

I mean, I don’t think anyone disagrees with the more factual pieces of this (i.e. the odds are bad), but the points re: debt are not universal. I happen to agree with you personally that going into debt for an MFA is a bad idea, and if someone asked me whether they should do that I would tell them no, but otherwise what they want to do with their money (theoretical or real) is Not My Business. 

And as far as the odds go, like, duh, they’re obviously bad. Everybody knows that; you’re not saying anything groundbreaking. But the fact remains that people are allowed to have hope about their futures, even if that pisses you off, and that those accepted into MFA programs are not mystical creatures who exist on a higher plane, but real people, some of whom even check this forum!

I’m not sure whether I admire your dedication here—ultimately the act of creating multiple accounts solely to try to make MFA applicants feel bad (or SeE tHe TrUtH I guess) is, I have to admit, pretty funny—or feel bad for you, but I suppose that is also Not My Business. So... deuces?

[woweezowee]

38 minutes ago, frock said:

But here they hardly confine themselves to telling people that admission odds are low, but there is joy regardless. They go much further, for instance censoring truth in the name of the greater good or political correctness.

Suppose someone says that an MFA does not increase your earning power; that the people who went into debt for an MFA universally regret it; that only a fool would pay Columbia $70K/year in tuition instead of applying elsewhere next year. They censor that upon the theory that it could ruin someone’s mood, and true or not, comes from someone in pain.

Nobody is censoring those thoughts; it's just that those thoughts are well known by virtually anyone who's spent any time at all thinking about getting an MFA seriously. Pointing out something that everyone knows isn't helpful. It's just harping on basic information that's being presented in the most negative way possible.

For example, yes it's true that Columbia does not offer full funding and that paying their full tuition is very expensive. Is it also true that only a fool would go to Columbia? No. That is an opinion, not a fact. It also assumes that everyone will have to pay full price, or that any specific individual could not afford to pay that very expensive cost.

I didn't apply to Columbia even though it's within walking distance from my home because of the costs. However, I did apply to NYU even though NYU similarly doesn't offer full funding. I decided that it was worth applying to NYU despite the low odds that I could afford to attend because there are not many schools available to me that offer full funding and I wanted to increase the possibility that I would be able to grad school next year.

Result? I have been accepted to NYU with full funding and a stipend.

It was very unlikely that this would happen, but it did.

If I listened to your "truths" I would have cost myself a tremendous opportunity.

Just because something is unlikely doesn't make it impossible. Unlikely things happen, and any honest assessment acknowledges that actual fact.

Negativity and honestly are not the same thing.

I will continue to encourage people to pursue their dreams and passions and I still give them the respect to assume they understand that doing so comes with the risk of disappointment.

[Ydrl]

I hope y’all are reporting instead of trying to reason with the troll. They’re going to do this regardless. Don’t waste your energy. You already have enough on your plate waiting for decisions. If you can’t identify the troll, and someone is being an ass, just leave them alone.

[woweezowee]

The human mind is a truly fascinating instrument, isn't it?

[mrvisser]

1 minute ago, woweezowee said:

The human mind is a truly fascinating instrument, isn't it?

It's an instrument that is all too often out of tune.

[woweezowee]

Anyway, how's everyone's Friday treating you? I'm hoping you all get great news today. Good luck on your MFA journeys!

[Guest]

Please stop mass-reporting frock's posts because you don't like their content.  There are human moderators on this forum who don't want to spend all our time deleting accounts you don't like.  If he posts something abusive or starts spamming, he will be banned; otherwise, ignore posts you disagree with and don't respond.

[pattycat]

For those of us who are staring down a possible clean sweep of rejections this year and want to prepare for next season, would any fiction kids be willing to form a critique group? Thoughts are that it would either be over zoom (traditional workshop-style) or maybe just laid back exchange of google docs over email.

[fireflystasis]

Hello all, I've been lurking for a while. Thought I'd say hi and give my wishes to everyone applying this cycle. Good luck!

Like everyone else, I'm anxiously waiting on Iowa and U-Wash Seattle, seeing as there have been a few results for those this past week. I've been smashing that refresh button on the results page even though I know what matters is the e-mail... I keep worrying when I see a missed call on my phone, even though it's unlikely any school would reach out to me via call since I live far from the US.

Also I haven't been able to write anything for a month since sending my last app—anyone else have this problem? I keep looking at drafts I haven't touched in ages and tabbing away.
 

Edited February 26, 2021 by fireflystasis

[feralgrad]

Since it's that time of year... [gets on soapbox again]

As y'all may know if you've read previous years' forums, I went through two application cycles before I entered an MFA program. My first cycle, I got into a couple programs, but I was unable to secure the funding I needed. Having to wait a year turned out to be really good for me. Looking back, I wasn't ready for grad school that first year (in terms of craft /and/ life circumstances). In the year between app cycles, I grew a lot as a person and a writer, in ways that wouldn't have been possible while in a grad program.

Of course, those gains didn't fall into my lap. I was very intentional about learning from my experience the first year. I would say my biggest tips are:

1. Apply to some less well-known programs, which will improve your chances way more than applying to many highly competitive programs. Many state schools have great funding and faculty despite not being household names!
2. Keep looking for writing opportunities outside of the MFA world. Many of y'all are already doing the second one. @pattycat, your critique group is a great idea! I'd be more than happy to participate during the summer, when my workload is lighter.

Long story short, I know it's rough right now. It's totally normal to feel discouraged and disappointed. But I hope you can also appreciate the work you did. Even if you don't end up applying again, your efforts planning, writing, and asking for LORs are still worth something! That's valuable experience you can use in many other contexts. You should be proud of yourself for that hard work, especially at a time when everything feels harder than ever. Not everyone would have done that

Edited February 26, 2021 by feralgrad

[Boomer not Ok]

Just following the whole Marshall contretemps thing, the other side of it is that it's worse (IMO) not to apply and go through the next year or life wondering "What if...?"

 

 

[babypoet2k]

update from draft re: iowa poetry (somebody called them and asked. everybody say thank you.)

"all acceptances will be made within the week."

[mess_mess]

1 hour ago, pattycat said:

For those of us who are staring down a possible clean sweep of rejections this year and want to prepare for next season, would any fiction kids be willing to form a critique group? Thoughts are that it would either be over zoom (traditional workshop-style) or maybe just laid back exchange of google docs over email.

omg love this and it would be such a nice bit of community / consolation. great thinking.

[aa2427]

Just want to confirm so I can stop stressing over this weekend - it's safe to say U Washington Poetry calls have all been made right? It's been a few days since the first applicant was accepted and the other writers likely just aren't here or on Draft, right? 

[fishfish24]

13 hours ago, teasel said:

Just found a rejection from Cornell in my inbox.  I was expecting it but damn, it still stings!! At the same time, it's a relief to be hearing back from places.   Gonna cope with this by buying a new houseplant & hope I don't get too many more rejections (it's already starting to look like a greenhouse in here).    (0a/3w/4r/5p)   

 

 

I decided to cope with covid and upstate NY winter by turning the house into a jungle. Now we have fungus gnats... My housemates are losing their minds...

[eternalwhitenights]

1 hour ago, mrvisser said:

Oh boy, there's a Notre Dame poetry acceptance in the results. Let's get it going.

The time has come, the walrus said, for me to officially start shitting bricks.

Here we go.

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH 

[Sorensen]

17 minutes ago, aa2427 said:

Just want to confirm so I can stop stressing over this weekend - it's safe to say U Washington Poetry calls have all been made right? It's been a few days since the first applicant was accepted and the other writers likely just aren't here or on Draft, right? 

See mrvisser's post below mine for probably better info, I'mma leave my original post below this just in case.

**(From what I understand Historically U Washington doesn't send out rejection letters until all their cohort positions are accepted which leads to some offers not being sent out until April. I'm waiting on U Washington Fiction myself and I've just resigned myself to not knowing until then.)

Edited February 26, 2021 by Sorensen

[mrvisser]

13 minutes ago, aa2427 said:

Just want to confirm so I can stop stressing over this weekend - it's safe to say U Washington Poetry calls have all been made right? It's been a few days since the first applicant was accepted and the other writers likely just aren't here or on Draft, right? 

I think they probably sent out all their poetry acceptances, but I can't say for sure. I'm applying for fiction, and I contacted someone in the department. They said "the poetry committee has begun making their first offers." Sorry, I know that isn't a for-sure answer on whether all offers have gone out.

But for fiction people, she said they had twice as many applicants as poetry and haven't made any decisions yet. She said fiction would probably hear by the end of next week. My pain has been delayed for now.

[woweezowee]

10 minutes ago, fishfish24 said:

I decided to cope with covid and upstate NY winter by turning the house into a jungle. Now we have fungus gnats... My housemates are losing their minds...

Have you tried hydrogen peroxide in soil? Should kill the larvae 

[mrvisser]

10 minutes ago, eternalwhitenights said:

The time has come, the walrus said, for me to officially start shitting bricks.

Here we go.

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH 

Nothing for fiction mentioned yet! 

[aa2427]

3 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

I think they probably sent out all their poetry acceptances, but I can't say for sure. I'm applying for fiction, and I contacted someone in the department. They said "the poetry committee has begun making their first offers." Sorry, I know that isn't a for-sure answer on whether all offers have gone out.

But for fiction people, she said they had twice as many applicants as poetry and haven't made any decisions yet. She said fiction would probably hear by the end of next week. My pain has been delayed for now.

Thank you, hearing their vague words through you does help.  I can't wait to overanalyze what "first offers" means. The waiting until April also feels so cruel...but that's the nature of the game I suppose. Best of luck to you in your waiting game!

[fishfish24]

13 minutes ago, woweezowee said:

Have you tried hydrogen peroxide in soil? Should kill the larvae 

Did the fourth round of peroxide today ?

[woweezowee]

Just now, fishfish24 said:

Did the fourth round of peroxide today ?

Yeesh! Sorry to hear that. There's also a product called mosquito bits that maybe could help? Good luck!