Fall 2014 applicants??

[Roquentin]

In the US, the top departments often accept 2-5 candidates total from a pool of hundreds (my field being Comparative Literature)

 

 

I'm in English. Top departments receive tons of applications, but they also accept more students (more than 2-5, that is). The year I applied, I was told that the University of Toronto had ~250 applicants for 25 spots (~10% acceptance rate). Now, no other English program in Canada is quite that large, but perhaps in English there are simply more spots to go around, thus reducing the need for applicants to apply everywhere. In any case, from the sounds of it, if I were in comp. lit. I'd probably have applied to more schools (2-5 acceptances from a pool of hundreds is kind of worrying). So yeah, maybe it is field dependant.

[egwynn]

I want to say that American schools get more applications for English as well, but that's based on how terrified I was when I saw this on Columbia's website, so I might just be extrapolating based on my own horror instead of actual fact.

 

"The department typically receives around 700 applications per year for about 16 places in our sequential program."

 

If I'm mathing correctly, that's a 2.2% acceptance rate.  I know it's Columbia, but I figure the other Ivies and programs like UChicago are in that ballpark.

[Fishbucket]

Why are you interested in Columbia? I'm looking at it but not feeling that spark -- or "a connection" as they say on the Bachelorette

[egwynn]

Oh, I had several things I was interested in a year ago.  I'm done applying, though, so I've wiped the app process from my memory with several barrels of bourbon and a brief public appearance in a flannel onesie.

[Fishbucket]

I'm just wondering if anyone else is experiencing this: the vast majority of scholarship leaves me cold and bored and confused as to why anyone would spend so much time writing that? Then there are a small handful of things that get me really excited. A very small handful.

 

Does this mean I shouldn't be going into academia? Or is this common? Or some third thing?

[heliogabalus]

<<Does this mean I shouldn't be going into academia?>>

Yes.

[ProfLorax]

I'm just wondering if anyone else is experiencing this: the vast majority of scholarship leaves me cold and bored and confused as to why anyone would spend so much time writing that? Then there are a small handful of things that get me really excited. A very small handful.

 

Does this mean I shouldn't be going into academia? Or is this common? Or some third thing?

I think this is fairly common. Our whole training system for academia forces young scholars to become devoted to a very specific subtopic within a field within a discipline. I know there are countless topics within English scholarship that don't float my boat; I learned that as an undergrad and MA student. Now, as a future PhD student, I'm stoked about truly focusing on my interests. 

 

However, as we become faculty members, I feel like we'll need to expand our expertise and observe how our own fields intersect with others. At that point, if you are resistant to  looking outside your box, that will be a problem. But until then, the entire system drives us to become highly specialized experts in whatever excites us. 

Edited June 19, 2013 by proflorax

[poliscar]

Really? I am wondering why this is, as I am exploring Canadian institutions for my PhD. If you would be willing to give me more information, even through PM, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

As another Canadian who has been given the same advice, I can say that it is entirely about employment. A PhD from a Canadian school just won't get you a job. If you look at recent hires at top Canadian schools—say McGill, Toronto, UBC—you'll notice that almost all recent hires are coming from top American schools, the exception being Canadian literature, of course. In quite a few cases as well these hires are Canadian citizens returning to the country after completing a PhD abroad, giving them an added advantage in the hiring process. Because of this, those with Canadian PhDs are typically left to work at smaller universities or colleges, or as adjuncts/sessionals. If you're not Canadian, you're going to be squeezed out of these jobs by people with citizenship.

 

Canadian schools are also far less likely to provide you with good funding, as most funding for graduate students comes from SSHRC grants. I know Toronto only guarantees $15,000 a year, and Toronto is probably the most generous school. 

Long story short, don't go to a Canadian school for your Doctorate unless you're Canadian, and even then it's a definite gamble. 

(As a side note, I should say that U of T does have a really good placement record in Medieval Studies and Early Modern lit, but other than that Canadian schools are risky.)

 

[Two Espressos]

16, 12, 17? Ay caramba! That's sooooo many! I think I'm starting to understand why folks get so antsy about applications on this site.

 

I applied to 5 and was accepted by 4. It was really pretty pain-free. 25-30 applications, though? What a waste of time and energy for everyone involved! It's just such an indecisive approach. If I were a letter writer, I would never enable that kind of nonsense.

 

Yeah, I find the idea of applying to 15+ schools absurd as well.  From my limited experience of chatting with other applicants both online and off, applying to one or two dozen schools--or more, even!-- seems to be the norm, though.

[Roquentin]

As another Canadian who has been given the same advice, I can say that it is entirely about employment. A PhD from a Canadian school just won't get you a job. If you look at recent hires at top Canadian schools—say McGill, Toronto, UBC—you'll notice that almost all recent hires are coming from top American schools, the exception being Canadian literature, of course. In quite a few cases as well these hires are Canadian citizens returning to the country after completing a PhD abroad, giving them an added advantage in the hiring process. Because of this, those with Canadian PhDs are typically left to work at smaller universities or colleges, or as adjuncts/sessionals. If you're not Canadian, you're going to be squeezed out of these jobs by people with citizenship.

 

Well, it’s an international market – Americans apply to work at Canadian schools, and Canadians apply to work at American schools. However, the U.S. produces more PhDs than Canada, so the number of recent hires in both countries is skewed towards American graduates. It’s not simply a case of American PhDs trumping those granted by Canadian schools – it’s a numbers game.

 

I’ll add, though, that I haven’t noticed a bias towards American graduates to the (hyperbolic) extent that you describe, even in new hires. Canadian departments – yes, even top ones – are packed with Canadian graduates. Speaking anecdotally, I’ve seen Canadian graduates find good positions in the U.S. and abroad. I also know a few Canadian PhDs who refuse to look for work in the States – for a variety of reasons, they’ve chosen to take sessional and TT positions at smaller Canadian schools rather than move south. I’m sure there must be similar cases of American graduates who don’t want to move north. Anyway, personal preferences still come into play somewhat, even in the market’s current state.

 

 

Canadian schools are also far less likely to provide you with good funding, as most funding for graduate students comes from SSHRC grants. I know Toronto only guarantees $15,000 a year, and Toronto is probably the most generous school. 

 

 

I don’t know what a typical American funding package is, so I can’t compare Canadian/U.S. offers. $15000 per year is very low, though, if you’re talking about Canadian PhD funding. Even if that’s what the UofT offers its MAs, I can tell you that they aren’t the most generous Canadian school (I made more elsewhere during my MA). Canadian PhD funding offers tend to range from $20000 to $30000 per year, guaranteed for 3-5 years. Graduate pay is a subsistence wage, and $15000 wouldn’t cut it.

[poliscar]

I don't know—for Assistant Profs UBC is 5/14 Canadian/American, McGill is 1/6, and Toronto is 2/10. In the cases of both McGill and Toronto, the 3 hires are all Canadianist, so we're looking at exactly 0 recent non-Canadianist hires, while UBC has 3 non-Canadianists with Canadian doctorates. 

Overall, looking at the most notable Canadian schools, 3/25 non-Canadian, tenure-track positions were filled by scholars from American or British universities. I would hardly call that packed with Canadians. Of course, you could look at other schools (York, UWO, Queen's, etc) but past a point you're not longer talking about top departments.

In terms of funding, U of T says it offers a guaranteed $15,000, UBC mentions a tuition waiver + $16,000 for "top recruits in the incoming doctoral class," and McGill mentions a "guaranteed four years of support" but doesn't list numbers. I'm not sure where you're talking about in terms of departments.

(Long story short, I don't think it's advisable to do a PhD at a Canadian school if you can get into a good American school. The departments are good, yes, but the career prospects aren't.)

Edited June 19, 2013 by poliscar

[Fishbucket]

Yeah I think the main point of this discussion, as with many other discussions on the Lit forum, is that people apply to a lot of schools because they are anxious to have better job prospects down the road. The more options you have, in terms of places to get your PhD, the better you can position yourself for the eventual job hunt.

 

As a side note, I think it's funny that moving "south" for a Canadian could mean moving to Michigan. The thought of Michigan being south of anywhere amuses me. 

[Roquentin]

I don't know—for Assistant Profs UBC is 5/14 Canadian/American, McGill is 1/6, and Toronto is 2/10. In the cases of both McGill and Toronto, the 3 hires are all Canadianist, so we're looking at exactly 0 recent non-Canadianist hires, while UBC has 3 non-Canadianists with Canadian doctorates. 

Overall, looking at the most notable Canadian schools, 3/25 non-Canadian, tenure-track positions were filled by scholars from American or British universities. I would hardly call that packed with Canadians. Of course, you could look at other schools (York, UWO, Queen's, etc) but past a point you're not longer talking about top departments.

In terms of funding, U of T says it offers a guaranteed $15,000, UBC mentions a tuition waiver + $16,000 for "top recruits in the incoming doctoral class," and McGill mentions a "guaranteed four years of support" but doesn't list numbers. I'm not sure where you're talking about in terms of departments.

(Long story short, I don't think it's advisable to do a PhD at a Canadian school if you can get into a good American school. The departments are good, yes, but the career prospects aren't.)

 

8/30 sounds reasonable, given that Canadian applicants likely would have been in the minority for these positions. However, when I mentioned that Canadian departments have lots of Canadian graduates in them, I wasn’t only referring to assistant professors. Nor am I inclined to consider Toronto, McGill, and UBC as having the only top departments in the country (cough, UofA, cough cough). Looking at faculty backgrounds in strong departments across Canada, it’s abundantly clear that your statement that “A PhD from a Canadian school just won't get you a job” is false. Anyhow, I think it’s fair to say that, as you previously suggested, having some form of international exposure, be it in the form of a degree, post-doctoral work, etc., benefits TT position applicants. It’s not an essential prerequisite, though.

 

As far as funding is concerned, I’ll just say that the lowest offer I received was $20000 per year. I’m not sure that department websites are always 100% accurate. For example, UBC offered me $30000 per year for four years. That was a while ago. I don’t know what their standard offer is now – perhaps it’s been decreased to $16000+tuition.

 

Yeah I think the main point of this discussion, as with many other discussions on the Lit forum, is that people apply to a lot of schools because they are anxious to have better job prospects down the road. The more options you have, in terms of places to get your PhD, the better you can position yourself for the eventual job hunt.

 

As a side note, I think it's funny that moving "south" for a Canadian could mean moving to Michigan. The thought of Michigan being south of anywhere amuses me. 

 

There’s little to stop people from sending out armloads of applications, but I have a hard time believing that someone applying to 20+ schools is targeting only those departments that are suitable for them (i.e. departments that will enable them to mature and flourish on their own merits, regardless of institutional prestige). If everyone applies to ivy-league schools just because, then I’m not surprised that, per the above info, Columbia has to reject 98% of applicants. In any case, I don’t want to add to the stress of anyone here who has yet to apply. I think I’ll bow out of the thread now, as gracefully as I still can.

[Fishbucket]

I don't think that an applicant who applies to lots of schools threatens anyone else, since ultimately everyone is forced to choose just one school. If it's not for you, don't do it. I'm not applying to any schools in Canada myself, mostly because I know very little about them. I suspect that's true for a lot of US applicants.

[isabelarcher]

I almost forgot: Happy Bloomsday, folks!

 

I hope all of you properly consider yourselves stately and plump on this auspicious day.

 

I was in Dublin on Bloomsday this year! I went by the James Joyce Centre and all of the people working there are so young and passionate about Joyce. I hope it's not too much to ask for to wish that I meet people like that in grad school.

Edited June 19, 2013 by isabelarcher

[isabelarcher]

For those of you coming straight from undergrad, have you thought much about contingency plans? I'm thinking about also applying to be a teaching fellow for the NYC dept of education and/or the French gov's teaching assistant program in France. I don't want to spread myself too thinly but I also need viable options for once the dust settles.

[ComeBackZinc]

I guess I just have a hard time understanding how someone could feel that 15+ schools are all an appropriate fit in all of the many dimensions that need to be lined up in this process.

[Phil Sparrow]

 .

Edited June 21, 2013 by Phil Sparrow

[Fishbucket]

I guess I just have a hard time understanding how someone could feel that 15+ schools are all an appropriate fit in all of the many dimensions that need to be lined up in this process.

 

There are a lot of schools out there. The more you look, the more schools you're likely to find that fit your needs. Especially if your needs aren't overly specific. As I said before, my interests aren't terribly obscure and I don't have a ton of other requirements for a school, besides that it fund me decently and be a nice place to live. 

[Portia]

Seems I committed a faux pas. I am interested in a program, and on its site it encourages us (potential applicants) to write to the person in charge with any questions. In the contact section, it's her email address again, and only it.

 

So I wrote asking some questions regarding their policies on people that already have a graduate degree from another country (saw that some unis really dont like that), if I can send recommandation letters from my research institute (been out of school for over 7 years, so I feel my research coordinators know me better than my professors that havent seen me in a bit), if I need my degrees evaluated by WES.

 

I did not get any definite answer, and a friend of mine told me it is because I shouldnt have asked her, that people who are in charge of a departments do not answer such questions -  but seeing the placement talk made me wonder a bit if that is the case. That and the fact that hers was the only contact on  the department's website. Or maybe, I should have written to the graduate school addresses?

 

I feel overwhelmed - not used to this academic culture and do not know what I should and shouldnt do.

[toasterazzi]

I guess I just have a hard time understanding how someone could feel that 15+ schools are all an appropriate fit in all of the many dimensions that need to be lined up in this process.

 

At this point, I think I've looked at a couple hundred schools, if not more. I'd say I could probably come up with at least thirty that would work for what I want to do. I've narrowed it down to twelve (and I'm thinking about narrowing down to ten) based on some specifics and my gut. But if I had more expendable cash, I'd probably add a few more to the list.

[gatz]

Wow...at this point I've just arbitrarily picked the top 25ish programs from a list and it's taking me absolutely forever to go through all of the info on each site and find really genuinely compelling things to mention in a SoP. lot's of them there's really not all that much to say--I could certainly do the type of research I want there, but I feel like the bar is a lot higher than that for showing that you're a good fit for a department. my interests are even pretty trendy but it's still difficult (and that's before even taking into account recent placement records)

[dazedandbemused]

Wow...at this point I've just arbitrarily picked the top 25ish programs from a list and it's taking me absolutely forever to go through all of the info on each site and find really genuinely compelling things to mention in a SoP. lot's of them there's really not all that much to say--I could certainly do the type of research I want there, but I feel like the bar is a lot higher than that for showing that you're a good fit for a department. my interests are even pretty trendy but it's still difficult (and that's before even taking into account recent placement records)

Two things I learned in the last year: 1) if you're choosing based solely on ranking, you're gonna have a bad time and 2) if you can't write your fit paragraph fairly easily, that application is basically garbage (by that I mean that you should throw it out because it will be useless, not that you suck or anything). I applied twice, and I still made the mistake of applying to a couple that I felt very little about, which translated to a few courteous rejection letters. For my SOP for the program I'll be starting in the Fall, I couldn't stop thinking of things to write. Take that as you will.

[somethinbruin]

I guess I just have a hard time understanding how someone could feel that 15+ schools are all an appropriate fit in all of the many dimensions that need to be lined up in this process.

 

I will admit that I applied to 15 schools. Got admitted to 6 (3 funded offers). To be honest my early preliminary list was around 48 schools, so I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that 15 schools could be a reasonably good fit.

 

I approached my list as a process of dividing it into thirds. I picked about 5 "dream" schools (aka: "Sure, I'll get into Princeton ha ha ha"), 6 upper level schools that I thought were attainable, and then about 4 "safety" schools. You never really know where your application is going to catch someone's attention, but I felt all of these schools offered a place I could fit in. They had several faculty members working in my time period/area of theoretical interest. I also looked for teaching loads, the semester when I could move from teaching comp to teaching literature, and the amount of professionalization built into the program. I was not nearly as concerned with POIs and matching my research up with a specific professors as some people on this board are. I felt like that was a variable that I had comparatively little control over--we don't know if a professor is thinking of moving to admin, or taking a sabbatical year, or in the process of interviewing for a job at another university. 

 

I guess I probably could have whittled my list down to about 12 or so, but I wouldn't have been comfortable doing fewer. The process is so competitive, and I wanted to give myself the best chance of getting admitted because I didn't have the time or the resources to wait for another application cycle. So I threw in the extra money to apply to a few more.

[igetstuffdunn]

Hello all, 

 

Been lurking here for a little while, but thought I'd introduce myself. I applied 2 years ago to a mixture of MA and PhD programs but didn't get the results that I wanted (okay...I didn't get any acceptances). Looking back I didn't really have any idea what I was doing as far as pulling together the kind of application that would make me look my best and my interests were extremely broad. After two years in San Francisco doing the soul-crushing work that is tech PR, I'm back at this crazy application process once again. 

 

I'm primarily interested in representations of gender and sexuality in post-WW2 American lit, especially as they relate to new or changing definitions of obscenity. I've been working through the spring trying to narrow down my list of programs and gathering research for an entirely new writing sample. I haven't gotten started on my statement of purpose yet because this seems like the most daunting part of the process for me but I'm trying to convince myself that it won't be that bad...right?

 

Anyway, just thought I'd check in and finally participate in the discussion. I'm one of those crazy people who will probably be applying to a ridiculous number of schools (goodbye savings) since I figure this is the last time I'll be making the attempt, but if you have any program recommendations I would LOVE to hear them! Oh, and if you have any interest/questions about UC Irvine, that's where I did my undergrad so I'm happy to give some insight!