Berkeley's arrogance

[A Finicky Bean]

So you are drunk posting on Gradcafe? Now... it all makes sense!

 

I want to laugh at this, I really do...but then I worry that maybe this person is in real distress...so I'll hold it in.

[skylarking]

The DGS isn't some evil overlord, laughing from the top of a mountain as they toss the hopes and dreams of poor souls like us into a fiery pit. You won't help your case at all by going on a tirade against them.

 

The system blows. We know the system blows. We've all felt the crunch. I'm a broke grad student as it is and had I not gotten a scholarship this year, I wouldn't have been able to apply at all, even though I'm working TWO jobs. 

 

Rejections are heartbreaking, they really are, and we understand that. It's especially heartbreaking when you're rejected from a school through a total mix-up. But don't act out of anger and sadness. Nothing good ever comes from it. Take a break, dude. Step away for a while and if you really want to know what you can do better and have a good rapport with your POI, ask what you can do differently next year? Sometimes programs just can't take people even if they really like them. But again, that's the system, and the system sucks.

[angelayar]

I'm not laughing I'm really quite sad yea I'm crying a bit too. ive complained to all the housemates and my boyfriend and they are sleeping and i'm complaing to you. i also did to my mom. and berekeley.

[angelayar]

I'm being serious about this too tho u can press the red button like its some knife you put in me. well done for that.

[Zephyr99]

Live on Meltdown PhD admissions 2014! But seriously, go to bed and sober up. This is not the end of the world. It really isn't!

[angelayar]

OK! just dont be afraid to be angry with bad treatment! we are all people still after this treatment.

 

good night!

[Loric]

It's it like 4am over there or something..?

[Zephyr99]

This might be the greatest trolling of all time. 

[Whatishistoryanyway]

Everyone needs to lighten up, including op.

Op, the system is fucked. We know it, you know it, they all know it. The fee is a scam and mistakes, especially with so many apps, are going to happen every once in a while. Although I believe some of your views are misguided, I would agree that the attitudes and culture of those in much of the West (not just the US), allow for plenty of systems like this.

Everyone else, I see your frustration with op's posts, but good god. You'd think these admissions committees were your families or something. Warn op of the risks involved with sending venom-filled emails then send her to do whatever she wants. But to say things like Berkeley would have tens of thousands of applications without the fee is absurd and hilarious. Unless some bozo sends thousands of troll applications, I don't see it increasing by that much. And I would assume it's easy to pick out the serious applications. Not everyone and their momma wants to spend close to a decade in a dark archive looking through a bunch of mess in order to find the jewels they need for their research.

[Kamisha]

There’s a scholarly article about this meltdown somewhere in this thread. I’m telling you. Also, and anti-Vodka commercial. 

 

FYI: where did the original poster get the idea that people who apply to PhD programs are rich? No one is picking on your or charging you more money because you are a foreigner. Actually, truth be told, you likely have a better chance of getting in than the rest of us on here. Stop playing the martyr card--it’s unbecoming. 

[Whatishistoryanyway]

How does she have a better shot of getting in? Why is everyone making statistics up in this thread? Unless this can somehow turn into a reasonable debate about the ills of the process, the mods (if there are any?), should really shut this down.

[hdunlop]

I can't believe no one liked my boat story. I think that's the greatest story.

[Kamisha]

I can't believe no one liked my boat story. I think that's the greatest story.

 

Does it make you want your money back and inspire you to write a scathing letter to the person who you deem responsible? Kidding.

 

For the record, I like your boat story, but am out of “Likes” for the day. 

[czesc]

angelayar, I feel you. I was really upset when I got my Berkeley response back last year, because I had profs pump me up about doing well in the admissions process, and it was my first result: a rejection. Not only a rejection, but a very impersonal form letter I had to sign in to access. I'm going to join in the chorus of other in warning you about contacting the department about this, which can only hurt you in the long run.

 

One thing that piques my interest though is how you discovered they'd mismatched your GRE scores. I hadn't even thought to confirm them at every school I applied to and now kind of wonder if any of the rejections I received could be chalked up to admin errors. 

[catsandscarves]

angelayar, I feel you. I was really upset when I got my Berkeley response back last year, because I had profs pump me up about doing well in the admissions process, and it was my first result: a rejection. Not only a rejection, but a very impersonal form letter I had to sign in to access. I'm going to join in the chorus of other in warning you about contacting the department about this, which can only hurt you in the long run.

 

One thing that piques my interest though is how you discovered they'd mismatched your GRE scores. I hadn't even thought to confirm them at every school I applied to and now kind of wonder if any of the rejections I received could be chalked up to admin errors. 

 

I discovered it when I went to the website and saw my scores weren't there. At this point in the process (late November/early December before I left for a 3 week trip to Southeast Asia), I was calling the secretary at each school where it said I was missing something or where they did not have an online tracking system to confirm that they had received my materials or that they just had not been posted online yet.

 

When I called Berkeley, they told me that they had mismatched my GRE scores because they had typed the number wrong into the system. Clerical errors are ALL on the student. I found this out my first time around when I applied to Ohio State. They rejected me because they did not receive a statement of purpose from me. It turns out the graduate contact had lost the email with my admissions materials in it and therefore my file was not complete. That is why I was so meticulous this time. Screwed in the past. Ugh.

[czesc]

Very interesting. I definitely followed up when I thought anything could have been incomplete but it sounds like there could have been all kinds of undetectable errors nonetheless.

 

I mean, if schools are getting GRE scores wrong, there could be fantastic applicants not even reaching the cutoff!

Edited February 6, 2014 by czesc

[catsandscarves]

Very interesting. I definitely followed up when I thought anything could have been incomplete but it sounds like there could have been all kinds of undetectable errors nonetheless.

 

I mean, if schools are getting GRE scores wrong, there could be fantastic applicants not even reaching the cutoff!

Absolutely. However, it is assumed the number of errors will be small enough it won't affect too much. As long as you follow up on what is missing, you have done pretty much all you can (sadly)!

[m-ttl]

What's amazing about this thread is this person ADMITS UC-Berkeley is a bad fit and is still sour that they got rejected, were given a form letter, and that they had to follow American standard procedures to apply to American graduate schools. 

 

How is Berkeley the arrogant one here, if you know you're a bad fit? It's as simple as doing the research to find it you are, or aren't. 

Edited February 6, 2014 by m-ttl

[tenguru]

I discovered it when I went to the website and saw my scores weren't there. At this point in the process (late November/early December before I left for a 3 week trip to Southeast Asia), I was calling the secretary at each school where it said I was missing something or where they did not have an online tracking system to confirm that they had received my materials or that they just had not been posted online yet.

 

When I called Berkeley, they told me that they had mismatched my GRE scores because they had typed the number wrong into the system. Clerical errors are ALL on the student. I found this out my first time around when I applied to Ohio State. They rejected me because they did not receive a statement of purpose from me. It turns out the graduate contact had lost the email with my admissions materials in it and therefore my file was not complete. That is why I was so meticulous this time. Screwed in the past. Ugh.

Um, I noticed that my official scores were not posted on my Cal application. I really hope they looked at my packet, Berkeley would have been a great fit for me and I for them. And my recs were all from Berkeley people too! Anyway, on to the rest, look to the future!

Edited February 6, 2014 by tenguru

[thedig13]

I can't believe no one liked my boat story. I think that's the greatest story.

 

I dug your boat story. I don't see why it had to be a boat, though. If seafaring and the ocean attract you (and I see the appeal), it can be a reasonable investment. I don't see why the MacGuffin wasn't something else, like a pair of designer jeans (which, as far as I'm concerned, are absolutely no better, whether in style, comfort, or utility, than standard jeans) or a diamond ring (which is worthless for reasons that can be summed up as "consumerism/capitalism").

 

Sorry if I've offended anybody who owns designer jeans or diamonds.

[hdunlop]

Actually the seeming randomness of the boat is the one thing that makes me think it's something that really happened. Broadly, though, the idea is that the boat keeps taking your money, whereas the others are one-off purchases, over the top as they may be.

 

Diamond rings are overpriced by at least two orders of magnitude for reasons that can be summed up as "consumerism/capitalism," but the nice ones are beautiful as hell so I wince at worthless. And I say this as someone who went with a sapphire for the lady.

[crazycanuck48]

I apologise already, I was wrong to say it like as just an American thing. But there it is very different and 100$x5 applications is yea 500$ Many poor people on here have applied for more than this by three.

 

The people who are so dismissive remember this is a lot of money for some. Probably not the ones who go to Berkely which mostly will be for the weatlthy class. Some exceptions but mostly merit from wealth. I wanted to go there too, I want to do phd, I have no money, i will be part of that perhaps somehwere tho I feel so insecure about it.

 

Still I think it's suck if you accept it blindly and don't try to sound like them. And yes they are a THEM. they have money and most of us dont and wont.

 

And i really find a lot of people who are probably men are ganging up and wading in behind to say shut up you annoying foreing person just as when i elsewhere criticized anti-woman stereotype.

 

But it's fine I expected you to be here.

 

I just wanted to add that, as a relatively poor foreigner myself, it is really not fair to characterise this as an "American problem".  I have applied to many programmes in various places in the Western world and the phenomena of lost appliciations, form rejection letters, expensive application fees, and lack of replies from POIs is common to all of them.  Certainly some of the elite American schools can display a degree of arrogance, but it is nothing compared to that which I've received from Oxford and Cambridge, or even from the University of Toronto, my alma mater - a university which is wonderful in many respects, but is also famous across Canada for its incredibly disrespectful treatment of students and applicants.  I have friends who have applied to programmes in continential Europe and their experience has been broadly similar.  Universities across the world receive hundreds of applications for a few spots and often behave in this way - I don't think we should target one particular country with our anger.

[thedig13]

Also, in response to OP, I will re-iterate things that have already been said, mostly for the sake of helping the poster understand how uncompelling most of his/her reasoning is. There is a TLDR at the end.

 

1a. As far as I know, every graduate school in the United States charges an application fee of $80+. While applying to programs, I looked up 50-65 programs, eventually narrowing it down to 12 based on a combination of placement record, fit, and geography. All of them required an application fee. In fact, while applying for undergraduate programs (which, for me, was only 4 years ago), I didn't find a single four-year college without an application fee of at least $50. Does it reek of elitism a little? Yes, it does. Do I hope to someday see a world in which education is affordable and people of all social classes can earn a quality degree? Yes, I do. But if you're offended by a $100 application fee, then, between its history of elitism and the trend towards corporate thinking, American academia is not the place for you.

 

1b. If you think that a $100 application fee is unfair, think about the funding packages UC Berkeley has to offer. UC Berkeley's History Department openly says that it receives 400 applications a year. This means that, in an average application season, they make $40K ($100 x 400 candidates) off application fees. If the program accepts just ONE funded student with a $16K stipend over 5 years ($80K total), they've already burned twice as much money as they've made. Except they don't accept just ONE funded student. They accept TWENTY-FIVE, meaning that, for every $1 they get during application season, they give away $50. I understand that graduate schools don't have one big pot of money where application fees go in and funding goes out, but my point remains the same: when you weigh the cost of the application against the kind of funding you could be offered, it is a very, very reasonable risk.

 

2a. Again, UC Berkeley receives 400 applicants a year and rejects 90% of them. When I wrote the first draft of my SOP, I literally created a fully-written SOP with blank spaces labeled as follows:

- "School I'm applying to" (i.e.: UC Berkeley)

- "POI 1 name" (i.e.: Professor Xavier)

- "POI 1 interest overlap" (i.e.: mutant superpowers)

- "POI 1 influential publication" (i.e.: "In fact, Activation of the Mutant Gene played a major role in my growth as a student.")

- "POI 2 name"

- "POI 2 interest overlap"

- "POI 3 name"

- "POI 3 interest overlap"

When it came time to write actual SOPs, I copy-pasted this and filled in the blanks before trimming based on each individual program's requirements. I did this for 12 schools, and, as far as I know, everybody who applies to multiple PhD programs uses a similar process. The people who wrote me letters of recommendation? None of them wrote me twelve different letters of recommendation. They each wrote me ONE LOR, copy-pasted it 11 times, changed the name of the school for each one, then sent them off. The entire application process is built on boilerplating. When I had to write 12 SOPs, I boilerplated. If somebody has to write twenty-five times that many rejection letters, then it would be hypocritical of me to criticize him for boilerplating. If you write a completely different SOP for each school you applied to, then I commend you.

 

2b. There's only so many ways you can say "We regret to inform you that you didn't make it into UC Berkeley. We receive a lot of qualified applicants for a limited number of slots, and we end up having to reject a lot of students that we would love to have." It's especially tricky because you have to sound sympathetic and professional at the same time. I consider myself a fantastic writer; a professor of creative writing recently told me that I consistently pull off some of the most elegant and complex sentences he's ever read (briefly tooting my own horn here; forgive me). But if you asked me to write 350 personalized rejection letters, I'd laugh at you.

 

3a. If you're planning to try applying again, be careful what you send to anybody in academia anywhere. Even if this incident has turned you off to UC Berkeley, there's no telling how many other schools might hear of this. If you decide to apply to University X instead, there's a solid chance that somebody there knows somebody from UC Berkeley, and it wouldn't take much to have you automatically rejected from University X. This advice is doubly valid because you're writing to somebody at Berkeley, one of the most respected institutions in the world; pretty much any university you could name has faculty members who've either collaborated with or studied under a professor at Berkeley.

 

3b. If you're planning to try applying again (even if this incident has turned you off to UC Berkeley), be careful what you post online. By the very nature of TheGradCafe, it can be tricky to post anything without revealing information about yourself, your academic qualifications, or your background. Academia can be a surprisingly small world. If a professor somewhere stumbles onto this thread, he/she wouldn't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out who a lot of TheGradCafe's posters are. If that professor happens to be faculty at a university you're applying to, it wouldn't take much to have you automatically rejected.

 

4a. I got rejected from UC Berkeley too, and yes, it's difficult news. But seriously. A cursory glance at the webpage openly says that only a small fraction of applicants get in and that "fit" is an important factor. You openly admitted that Berkeley was a bad fit. You should've know that it was a long shot and expected this rejection.

 

4b. If this is your first rejection, I hope you don't take every rejection this personally. Because they're almost always done in this manner, and if more rejections are on the way (hopefully not, but still), then this won't be a fun period for you.

 

5. It sucks that they mixed up your GRE scores. You paid good money to have your application considered properly, except it wasn't considered properly. If only for this reason, you deserve a refund. This is the only valid complaint I saw in your entire post.

 

TL;DR:

1a. The application fee is fine. Everybody charges application fees of $80+.

1b. The application fee is fine. The kind of funding you're offered if admitted MORE THAN offsets the application fees, even if you scale down the funding numbers based on the mathematical probability of admission.

2a. The boilerplating isn't a big deal. Everything in the admissions process (i.e.: SOPs, LORs) has been boilerplated up until now.

2b. The boilerplating isn't a big deal. Do you really expect somebody to write 350 personalized rejection letters?

3a. Be careful what you write in correspondence. UC Berkeley is a big school, and a lot of people there have the influence to ruin your academic future.

3b. Be careful what you write online. The internet isn't completely anonymous, and the academic community is small. Somebody could stumble onto this, discern your identity, and ruin your academic future.

4a. Don't take this rejection personally. UC Berkeley openly says that the overwhelming majority of applicants are rejected, and even you admit the fit wasn't great. It was a long shot and you knew it.

4b. Don't take this rejection personally. As long as they notify you in a professional manner and timely fashion, you shouldn't be offended. If you take every rejection this personally, this admissions cycle might be hard for you.

5. It sucks that they mixed up your GRE scores. Assuming that it was an error on their part and not your own, you deserve a refund.

Edited February 6, 2014 by thedig13

[0000]

I went to Berkeley for grad school (not for history) and have really enjoyed this thread.  I had a great time there and it is a fantastic university.  Having said that, grad school is a completely demoralizing and humiliating experience anywhere you go.  So get used to being treated like crap and having to deal with it.  The application process is nothing compared to what you will have to endure while in a program.  Also, don't get too upset about getting rejected.  The review of applications is so random anyways don't try figuring it out.  Rejection does not = you being inadequate/not good enough/a failure, etc.  Just put together the best application you can and hope for the best.

 

I am back applying to grad schools in a completely different discipline now and I am fine if I get rejected since I already know what is on the other side of being accepted. 

 

Anyways.  Good luck to you all! 

[TMP]

Guys... the OP isn't back on the thread.  I suspect a troll.