Cost vs. Interests vs. Ranking: How do you weigh them?

[lily48slp]

I feel very fortunate to have choices about where to go next year, but I'm going crazy trying to make a decision. Can we discuss how you all are considering cost vs. areas of interest in the field vs. program prestige/ranking? 

I keep hearing that rankings don't matter in our field, and I'm especially inclined to believe that after seeing that the only basis for them in the U.S. News & World Report (per their methodologies page) is peer assessment surveys that had a measly 33% response rate. (!!) But I keep wondering whether those respondents' knowledge of the curriculum, faculty, or facilities might still be important.

Personally, I think I'm down to Program A and Program B. 
Program A is: very highly ranked, costs less, but doesn't have any curriculum or clinic experiences in multilingual/multicultural assessment and intervention, which I really want to do. 
Program B is: about 23k more than Program A, ranks about 70 spots lower (fwiw), and has multilingualism/multiculturalism as one of its biggest strengths that permeates the rest of the research and curriculum in the department. 

Part of me is telling myself to suck it up and be glad that I got into Program A, and just go there. But I'm not sure if that will put my whole career on a different trajectory. 

I'd love to hear how others are weighing these factors! What do you all think? Would you pay more to go to a less "prestigious" school if it matched your interests better? Or, taking ranking out of the equation, how much more money is too much to go to a school that seems like a better interest fit? Is anyone else in the middle of a similarly tough decision?

Edited March 24, 2017 by lily48slp

[plume]

This is tricky. First off, I think what we have read and heard about rankings is true—they really don't matter. As long as you have talked to grad students and they have felt supported and have the resources they need to excel, I would say forget them (I totally get it, though. I find myself caring about them too as I make this decision!) I am not sure what to say about the focuses and tuition, though. It sounds like program B is a better fit, but would you have a harder time working with multicultural populations after school if you do not go to program B? Everyone says to go to the cheapest program, because you will get your certification and be able to work in any setting after attending any accredited program.

I am not in this situation quite yet, but I might be (waiting to hear on one school). Have you talked to faculty at program A about multicultural opportunities in clinicals, visited both programs, and chatted with grad students? Best of luck. I wish I could help more!

[lindsay359]

I have talked to two speech pathologists and they have both told me to pick the more affordable school! I would talk to some SLPs that work with multilingualism/multiculturalism and ask them if going to a school with those experiences is necessary. If you can learn about them during CEUs, externship, or CF, maybe picking the cheaper program would be better, but I would definitely talk to someone in that area of expertise. 

[Crimson Wife]

Do you have any undergraduate debt? Are you single or in a long-term relationship?

For me personally, $23k savings is not enough to outweigh a specialty track in an area of interest but I'm in a fortunate position where I don't have any UG debt and my husband makes enough to support our family.

If I plug $23k into the loan calculator at FinAid, that is a difference of $265/mo. over the 10 years. The benefits of doing the specialty track would be worth that amount to me personally. Right now we're paying $145/week out-of-pocket for my daughter to get auditory-verbal therapy with a SLP certified in AVT. It's as much training for me as it is therapy for her. So $265 more per month to attend a master's program with a specialty track in AVT would be worth it to me.

[angela4]

1 hour ago, plume said:

This is tricky. First off, I think what we have read and heard about rankings is true—they really don't matter. As long as you have talked to grad students and they have felt supported and have the resources they need to excel, I would say forget them

lily48slp, I am facing an A vs. B decision too. Thank you for the post. 

plume, how would you suggest going about contacting current/former grad students at the program? I feel like if I ask the school directly, they will connect me with someone who is a "favorite" or who they know will only say positive things.

[SopranoSLP]

I asked a similar question (hypothetically) a few months ago regarding my own interest (voice). The consensus seemed to be that an MS/ MA/ MEd in SLP is a generalist degree, so the curricula themselves don't vary all that much, and that one would instead focus on one's specific interests through clinical experience, post-grad fellowships, research, etc. Personally (and still theoretically), I'm looking at a couple affordable, public, in-state options that don't have much of a voice focus (though one is very highly ranked overall), vs. some extremely pricey, out-of-state schools that are known for their voice specialty tracks and clinical placements. I've been told repeatedly that minimizing debt should be the priority, but I still feel a pull toward the expensive options with "VOICE" plastered all over them! At this point, I'm not sure whether there's a point to even APPLYING to the expensive "voice" schools, if I don't really plan to go... but.. but... 

Maybe you should also consider WHERE the schools are? If Program B isn't anywhere near where you ultimately want to live/ work, then connections made in that geographical location will probably be less useful in the long run, even if they are more aligned with your area of interest. (For example, I live in Seattle and ultimately want to continue doing so. After a lot of internet research, I've discovered that almost everyone in Seattle who is doing the kind of work I hope to do is a UW or WWU grad, not a Vanderbilt, Iowa, UW-Madison, Pitt, or MGHIHP grad. Of course, there are exceptions, but the local program grads win by a landslide! UW is very highly ranked, so that can't hurt, but WWU is #199... and neither offers a voice specialty.)

One other thing that just occurred to me... Programs are seeking diversity of interests amongst their cohorts, right? Maybe if you're one of many students focused on multilingualism/ multiculturalism at Program B, you'll be a small-to-medium fish in a big pond and will have to fight for good clinical placements, etc. Perhaps being one of few students (if not the only student) focused on multilingualism/ multiculturalism at Program A will actually yield more personalized attention, the best clinical opportunities in your area, etc. Just a thought!

Let us know what you decide! :-) Best of luck and congratulations on having two good options! 

Edited March 24, 2017 by SopranoSLP
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[plume]

1 hour ago, angela4 said:

lily48slp, I am facing an A vs. B decision too. Thank you for the post. 

plume, how would you suggest going about contacting current/former grad students at the program? I feel like if I ask the school directly, they will connect me with someone who is a "favorite" or who they know will only say positive things.

That's a great point that I didn't think about! However, I talked with another person on here about this and they had an idea to reach out to someone in a Facebook group for the school's CSD program. I would suggest you also see if someone who attends those schools is still active on here.

Edited March 24, 2017 by plume

[angela4]

6 minutes ago, plume said:

That's a great point that I didn't think about! However, I talked with another person on here about this and they had an idea to reach out to someone in a Facebook group for the school's CSD program. I would suggest you also see if someone who attends those schools are still active on here.

Great idea! Thank you.

[JcSLP]

I'm facing some similar decisions too! I think this part has made me more anxious than any other part of this whole process haha... I really like ALL the schools I applied to. @lily48slp, my initial thought would be to chose the program that's 23k cheaper, but like someone else said, It would also depend on how much undergrad debt you have if any. I would look at the location of the programs as well. If option A is in a city or an area that might have a diverse population, even if there is no specific multicultural emphasis outlined in the program, there could still be good externship and CF opportunities in that area. But, if you really love the option B school, it's in an area you love, AND has the speciality you want, it might be the perfect fit for you. I wouldn't worry about rankings at all.

[thespeechblog.com]

3 hours ago, lily48slp said:

I feel very fortunate to have choices about where to go next year, but I'm going crazy trying to make a decision. Can we discuss how you all are considering cost vs. areas of interest in the field vs. program prestige/ranking? 

I keep hearing that rankings don't matter in our field, and I'm especially inclined to believe that after seeing that the only basis for them in the U.S. News & World Report (per their methodologies page) is peer assessment surveys that had a measly 33% response rate. (!!) But I keep wondering whether those respondents' knowledge of the curriculum, faculty, or facilities might still be important.

Personally, I think I'm down to Program A and Program B. 
Program A is: very highly ranked, costs less, but doesn't have any curriculum or clinic experiences in multilingual/multicultural assessment and intervention, which I really want to do. 
Program B is: about 23k more than Program A, ranks about 70 spots lower (fwiw), and has multilingualism/multiculturalism as one of its biggest strengths that permeates the rest of the research and curriculum in the department. 

Part of me is telling myself to suck it up and be glad that I got into Program A, and just go there. But I'm not sure if that will put my whole career on a different trajectory. 

I'd love to hear how others are weighing these factors! What do you all think? Would you pay more to go to a less "prestigious" school if it matched your interests better? Or, taking ranking out of the equation, how much more money is too much to go to a school that seems like a better interest fit? Is anyone else in the middle of a similarly tough decision?

Hi Lily, 

I would say forget rankings - they're kind of meaningless in the job market; During observations I did before grad school, I saw clinicians from top programs working in the same hospital with clinicians from "all the other" ranked programs. Even if you decide to go on in academia, they don't mean much.

I think cost is a big consideration - probably the biggest. I interviewed probably about half-a-dozen SLP's and they all told me to go to the most affordable school. While others clearly disagree, I think an extra $23,000 is a huge amount of money to be paying off in debt. That's a new car or two... or a down payment on a house!  

I'm also interested in bilingualism and multiculturalism. I was lucky that my most affordable school also had an emphasis in bilingualism/multiculturalism. I'm sorry that didn't align so nicely for you. Don't worry - you can pick up that extra training in other ways. Maybe there are classes in the education or special ed (or even other!) departments at both universities on multiculturalism. You can take them as an elective. You're going to do Continuing Ed. credits for the rest of your career. I think TC Columbia offers their bilingual program as a certificate you can do separate from the graduate program. There are posters and presentations at ASHA every year (I'm applying now to present one!) on multiculturalism. The books and articles on topics of interest are available to you. 

Finally, in my program I haven't even taken one of the special "bilingual/multicultural" assessment or development classes and I've already learned a ton about those topics. During your "regular" classes on assessment, intervention, etc - you should be covering these issues because they're kind of an inherent part of what we do. I ask questions about diverse populations all the time in classes not labeled "multicultural." When you get to chose a topic for an in-class research project, select something about "bilingual assessment" and you'll be reading the same literature / articles / journals as someone in a program with a "bilingual emphasis." 

[Maridele]

I would personally choose the most affordable school as a whole (cost of living in the area, transportation etc). If you are between schools with similar cost, then I would consider the specializations each program offers. Honestly, the most important thing for me is getting the core education on the field. I think once you are out in the workforce you will acquire and learn from your work experiences, without paying 20K more. I think you will certainly have this if you choose to work in multicultural environments after your studies. Also, you choose to apply to certain schools because they fit your criteria, I would definitely go with the most affordable one. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Maridele

[zurako]

I am in the same boat. I have not even been seriously considering any of the expensive schools I applied to, because I was so focused on minimizing cost of tuition. My parents are willing to pay for my education at TC even though the price is insanely high, but I am having a hard time justifying it. It really offers what I want which is the multiculturalism, but it's so far and so expensive. I can't just make my parents pay 100k for me to get a job that pays 60k starting salary. 

With respect to your decision, I think you should go with program A! TC offers an online bilingual certificate program now so wherever you are, you can get the education later on.

[Paslp]

I would say program accreditation and cost should be most important. While interests are important, every program comes equipped with many of the same courses that would allow for a person to get a very general knowledge of the field. Whatever your interests are, I think most programs have at least 1 class pertaining to it. I don't know if most slp jobs require specialization. I think it's usually just if you passed the praxis and have work experience. 

Other things that I think are important to think about are the type of faculty. Do they have separate clinical and teaching faculty? If so, would that make it harder to apply clinical information from class with clients? Are the teachers just "academics" or do they have clinical experience? 

There are other things I never thought to take into consideration until others mentioned them:

-Some schools don't provide therapy materials for there students. One highly ranked and very expensive school actually forces all students to make or bring their own materials.

-talking to other grad students, i was told another Highly ranked program in a city offers absolutely no help in obtaining externships. 

-another girl I spoke with said her program materials and tests room were very disorganized. That's definitely a problem if you are rushing to plan a therapy session. 

To make the best decision I would suggest visiting and touring facilities. That way you can also find grad students to talk to.

[lily48slp]

Thank you all so much for your insightful answers! I read every one of your posts carefully and it's a breath of fresh air to have outsiders look at my options. I encourage other people with similar dilemmas to keep posting in this thread if it's helpful. 

It doesn't surprise me to see how many of you think I should go with the most affordable school, as cost is a big reason why I found myself asking here in the first place. The perspective from Crimson Wife about the long-term cost is definitely something I'm still considering, though. I have a long-term SO who has no debt and he's encouraging me to choose the better interest fit, but sometimes it feels hard to justify.

plume, great idea about the Facebook groups. I'm not able to visit one of the programs right now due to distance/cost, but I want to know how the students feel about it!

Paslp, I wouldn't have thought about the disorganization in therapy prep and lack of help getting externships. I'm a little taken aback that some programs would be so hands-off. I'll be thinking about those points for sure. 

I'm leaning towards Program A for now, mostly because of cost (I do have undergrad debt as well and it's weighing on my mind), but I'm still thinking wistfully about Program B. A is actually my undergrad institution and my family live around there, BUT I have other family around B and it's in an area I'd much rather live in long-term, so I'm torn in that respect too.

I know I used to try to find out what other people ultimately decided when I lurked here several months ago, so I will update with my final decision (and maybe the names if people really want to know)!

 

[angela4]

@lily48slp It sounds like you are putting a lot of effort into making your decision, and I'm sure you will make the right choice. I'm wondering, at what point do rankings really start to matter? Of the two schools I am considering, the less expensive and more convenient school is MUCH lower ranked - 150 lower than the other school. 

[deblee]

Go to the lower ranked,more convenient, cheaper school!

It makes no difference where you go to school, just get your degree!

[plume]

3 minutes ago, angela4 said:

@lily48slp It sounds like you are putting a lot of effort into making your decision, and I'm sure you will make the right choice. I'm wondering, at what point do rankings really start to matter? Of the two schools I am considering, the less expensive and more convenient school is MUCH lower ranked - 150 lower than the other school. 

From what I have been told, they never matter. I think we need to pretend like they don't exist, and do our own research to determine which schools are the "best." This article doesn't cover graduate school/SLP programs specifically, but it shows how the rankings are somewhat arbitrary: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/09/10/why-u-s-news-college-rankings-shouldnt-matter-to-anyone/?utm_term=.25744e0ef6ab

HOWEVER, it does say that the school's reputation receives a lot of weight in the ranking. I would say this oftentimes does not reflect the quality of education (I truly believe a small school in Ohio could have as much support, range of clinical placements etc. as a "top" school) but I suppose reputation can have some clout later (people will dispute this in the SLP field, though!)

[JcSLP]

Does anyone have advice for someone that is choosing between two schools that are very similar in cost? My top 2 choices are only around a 2-3k difference per year... I have no idea how to decide which one to go to, and I keep going back and forth. One is my undergrad institution, so I know most of the professors and know the school like the back of my hand. The other is in a new city that's a bit closer to home which I like, and the school itself is much bigger. Any opinions/experiences going to a new university or staying where you got your undergrad degree? Thanks guys!

[kenz]

10 minutes ago, JcSLP said:

Does anyone have advice for someone that is choosing between two schools that are very similar in cost? My top 2 choices are only around a 2-3k difference per year... I have no idea how to decide which one to go to, and I keep going back and forth. One is my undergrad institution, so I know most of the professors and know the school like the back of my hand. The other is in a new city that's a bit closer to home which I like, and the school itself is much bigger. Any opinions/experiences going to a new university or staying where you got your undergrad degree? Thanks guys!

In my personal opinion, I feel it would be best to attend graduate school somewhere other than your undergraduate institution because you would build additional connections, develop new techniques, gain knowledge and opinions from a wider range of professionals in the field, etc. I think it's good to have that separation between undergrad and grad school so you don't get burned out as easily and continue to gain fresh perspectives, if that makes sense. That being said, I could easily see how going to the same school would be a much more comfortable choice. Ultimately, I doubt you could go wrong either way! 

[JcSLP]

18 minutes ago, kenz said:

In my personal opinion, I feel it would be best to attend graduate school somewhere other than your undergraduate institution because you would build additional connections, develop new techniques, gain knowledge and opinions from a wider range of professionals in the field, etc. I think it's good to have that separation between undergrad and grad school so you don't get burned out as easily and continue to gain fresh perspectives, if that makes sense. That being said, I could easily see how going to the same school would be a much more comfortable choice. Ultimately, I doubt you could go wrong either way! 

Thank you for the advice! I agree that attending a different school could broaden my connections and perspective and possibly lead to better opportunities later down the road. I'm leaning towards the new school, even though it is a little more expensive. I'm not sure if 2-3k a year makes much of a difference in the end.

[poor_salieri]

Go with the more affordable school if you like the atmosphere, the professors seem invested, and the program vibes with you (e.g. Big/small classes, professors just teach or teach and do clinic, etc). Unless the school is located in an area with very limited diversity you can tell your clinical ptacticum advisors that you'd like a placement with more diverse populations right at the beginning of the program so they can select a clinic that may include that. You can find diverse populations in every setting if the school has that type of diversity in the location. While not every University gives the same education, regardless of requiring some of the same course work, it has less to do with rankings and more to do with the professors, the school's teaching/learning approach and how that fits or doesn't fit with you. All accredited programs should include aspects of working with diverse populations including assessment/diagnostics class, aphasia course, child language, etc. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by poor_salieri

[angela4]

 

18 hours ago, deblee said:

Go to the lower ranked,more convenient, cheaper school!

It makes no difference where you go to school, just get your degree!

@deblee @poor_salieri @plume Great input on rankings, thank you. It's helped me get closer to making a decision.

[SLPhilly]

On 3/25/2017 at 7:53 AM, Paslp said:

I would say program accreditation and cost should be most important. While interests are important, every program comes equipped with many of the same courses that would allow for a person to get a very general knowledge of the field. Whatever your interests are, I think most programs have at least 1 class pertaining to it. I don't know if most slp jobs require specialization. I think it's usually just if you passed the praxis and have work experience. 

Other things that I think are important to think about are the type of faculty. Do they have separate clinical and teaching faculty? If so, would that make it harder to apply clinical information from class with clients? Are the teachers just "academics" or do they have clinical experience? 

There are other things I never thought to take into consideration until others mentioned them:

-Some schools don't provide therapy materials for there students. One highly ranked and very expensive school actually forces all students to make or bring their own materials.

-talking to other grad students, i was told another Highly ranked program in a city offers absolutely no help in obtaining externships. 

-another girl I spoke with said her program materials and tests room were very disorganized. That's definitely a problem if you are rushing to plan a therapy session. 

To make the best decision I would suggest visiting and touring facilities. That way you can also find grad students to talk to.

Hi, These are such important points that I never would've thought of! Would you mind telling me what schools you're referencing, now I am nervous it could be one I applied to! If you don't want to share it publicly, you can PM me! Thanks!!

[kenz]

Just out of curiosity, as it stands right now, what will each of you have to pay in tuition and what is the cost of living at each school you're seriously considering attending?

[Callen]

@kenz mine is pretty freaking high to be honest, but as of right now my only choice. I do so far love the program at least!

Since I'm out of State, UW-milwaukee is around $14-15k for one semester  cost of living is looking like around 600-700 for rent for a 1 bedroom/studio. 

Ugh.