Fall 2018 Applicants

[un_commonwealth]

So my top choice PhD program emailed me with an update, "Thank you so much for your application. The graduate committee has not selected your application for our first round of interviews. I will be in touch as the process continues. I would like to encourage you in your research, and I will be in touch if the committee decides to move forward with your application. Thank you again." 

Has anyone received this kind of message before? Nothing about their application process indicated that there would be multiple rounds of interviews, so it sounds like a pretty certain rejection. But if so, why isn't it a straightforward no? This is my first time applying to programs and I only applied to 3. This is the first one I've heard back from.

[anon1234567]

12 minutes ago, OHSP said:

Margot Canaday, Associate Prof, PhD from Minnesota 
Hendrik Hartog, Prof, PhD from Brandeis
Erika Milam, Prof, PhD from Wisconsin
Rosina Lozano, Assistant Prof, PhD from USC 

Just some of the Princeton faculty I know from my own work. I'm an international student who wanted to go to Wisconsin but basically, even with an additional fellowship, I thought it was going to be far too financially precarious. In certain fields--gender and sexuality (esp. trans* studies) and environmental history--it makes more academic sense to go to Wisconsin than to somewhere like Columbia. But then being in New York also has advantages. Nothing guarantees a job, including a PhD from Princeton. 

Same here. Wisconsin's funding for internationals is terrible, which is a shame indeed. Their elected officials are dead set on destroying a fine institution. 

Milam was a spousal hire.  

 

[michaelgi]

I've had an e-mail from the DoGS at USC letting me know that I was on the wait-list, the results survey tells me that there is another American historian who is in the same boat. Whoever you are, if you're listening I'd love to find out which sub-field you're interested in? We can compare notes and lose our minds together! For anyone else, any idea how often people make it from the wait-list to the starting line-up? I appreciate that this obviously differs from program to program, but any information as a way to manage expectations would be very helpful.

For everyone else out there, stay strong! 

[psstein]

3 hours ago, Yellow Mellow said:

 I am simply baffled as to why my posts seem to be so offensive to so many  I have simply expressed a view regarding Wisconsin's status that differs from those of others. I have not offended anyone while doing so. 

Bluntly, it's your phrasing and the fact that you seem to have a pathological need to beat up on one particular program. If you had said "I don't think Wisconsin is the same level as Harvard in several areas," nobody would disagree with you. Hopkins is superior to Wisconsin for history of medicine and Princeton superior for early modern Europe.

As with everything else in this whole damn field, rankings are dependent on sub-speciality.

[psstein]

1 hour ago, anon1234567 said:

Same here. Wisconsin's funding for internationals is terrible, which is a shame indeed. Their elected officials are dead set on destroying a fine institution.

This is a battle that we have to fight almost every year. The government is only interested in the bottom line, which means that basic necessities like building maintenance are overlooked. Seriously, the Humanities building used to have floor heat, but it failed some years ago and nobody has bothered to try to fix it. Our DGS suspects the person responsible for its upkeep has died.

[Imenol]

1 hour ago, anon1234567 said:

So you heard it from the horse's mouth so to speak. So, where are you applying to? I heard Harvard is pretty good for medievalists. A friend applied there. 

Indeed, Harvard has impressive resources for medievalists. Michael McCormick and Daniel Lord Smail are really at the top of their field, the former being the author of the most influential book on the early medieval economy and the latter doing increasingly more creative work at the intersection of history, anthropology, and science. In general, the department seems to have a big focus on the "science" of the human past, but both of them are really competent in traditional archival research as well. Some of the best students who have recently emerged from the Harvard history graduate program are medievalists too (Rowan Dorin, who got a tenure-track position at Stanford and was at the Harvard Society of Fellows, or Shane Bobrycki, who got the award to the best dissertation of the department last year). 

[gnossienne n.3]

6 hours ago, Yellow Mellow said:

I guess we might simply have different standards or different understandings of what a "top" program is. I was replying to an user that placed Wisconsin at the same level as Harvard, Columbia, Chicago, and Princeton. In the latter, which is obviously the program I am most familiar with, I am not aware of any professor with a PhD from Wisconsin, yet I could mention from the top of my head several professors with PhDs from each of the three other institutions. 

Look, if people want to apply to Wisconsin so be it -there certainly are worse programs. Perhaps my situation is different because I am an international student who was offered funding at my home institution, so I would only leave my Europe aux ancient parapets for a really good (actually top) American university, preferably one that is not in the middle of nowhere. 

You said yourself you aren't in HoS and therefore this is an area in which you are ignorant. By failing to acknowledge that "top" is variable and that in some cases Wisconsin will be a top option, you're exposing that you have a very narrow idea of what constitutes a top program in a field in which you have no expertise. This has been pointed out to you politely multiple times.

To address the example you seem most interested in (again), Harvard's HoS cannot be considered as competitive as its parent university's name recognition suggests, as it has recently lost and not replaced one of the most important historians of medieval science in the last 30 years. Prestige is important: no one is debating this. But also important--and, it must be said, important to a varying degree according to an individual's expectations and research interests--is whether there are faculty working in an adjacent subject matter.  @psstein is a medieval historian of science with a concentration in astronomy: for him, Wisconsin is a top program. I did not consider it because my field of interest within medieval science is medicine and natural philosophy. A lack of coverage in a particular area doesn't mean that program is not a top program, it just means it's not a top program for me. 

You have stated that you are an international student; your priorities and impressions may be different. What constitutes a top program will be different to different people. There is no single list of top programs that will be unaffected by things such as the actual faculty working in the department at a given moment or the research interests of the student. No institution or department is ironclad. If you want to talk about prestige and hiring practices, there are studies that can be referenced and dissected ad nauseam. Wisconsin's HoS placement record is complicated for reasons that have been expanded on already. As a whole, it is a respected institution that has graduated many successful faculty in History, regardless of what you may think of its general prestige outside of the field.

[gnossienne n.3]

4 hours ago, Manuscriptess said:

Yeah, just for the Medieval/Renaissance Studies MA program. Idk about the other MA programs. MedRen is pretty new, so they want to build the reputation by getting admits at other schools-- that's just what AJK told everyone in the program rn.

How frustrating--I was invited to transfer my application to the MA program last year and they didn't breathe a word of this to me. I didn't take them up on it, because the funding situation was likely to be so dire, but now the exchange seems pretty disingenuous.

[Yellow Mellow]

11 minutes ago, gnossienne n.3 said:

You said yourself you aren't in HoS and therefore this is an area in which you are ignorant. By failing to acknowledge that "top" is variable and that in some cases Wisconsin will be a top option, you're exposing that you have a very narrow idea of what constitutes a top program in a field in which you have no expertise. This has been pointed out to you politely multiple times.

To address the example you seem most interested in (again), Harvard's HoS cannot be considered as competitive as its parent university's name recognition suggests, as it has recently lost and not replaced one of the most important historians of medieval science in the last 30 years. Prestige is important: no one is debating this. But also important--and, it must be said, important to a varying degree according to an individual's expectations and research interests--is whether there are faculty working in an adjacent subject matter.  @psstein is a medieval historian of science with a concentration in astronomy: for him, Wisconsin is a top program. I did not consider it because my field of interest within medieval science is medicine and natural philosophy. A lack of coverage in a particular area doesn't mean that program is not a top program, it just means it's not a top program for me. 

You have stated that you are an international student; your priorities and impressions may be different. What constitutes a top program will be different to different people. There is no single list of top programs that will be unaffected by things such as the actual faculty working in the department at a given moment or the research interests of the student. No institution or department is ironclad. If you want to talk about prestige and hiring practices, there are studies that can be referenced and dissected ad nauseam. Wisconsin's HoS placement record is complicated for reasons that have been expanded on already. As a whole, it is a respected institution that has graduated many successful faculty in History, regardless of what you may think of its general prestige outside of the field.

You seem to forget that I was replying to a comment by psstein which in fact identified those that were, in his opinion, the best programs in the history of science (medieval subfield): Wisconsin and "probably" Harvard. It is of course true that, to a certain extent, there is no top program that can be decided in abstraction from someone's individual interests. But, if we are forced to do so, it is simply misleading to identify Wisconsin as the best one. 

[khigh]

7 minutes ago, Yellow Mellow said:

You seem to forget that I was replying to a comment by psstein which in fact identified those that were, in his opinion, the best programs in the history of science (medieval subfield): Wisconsin and "probably" Harvard. It is of course true that, to a certain extent, there is no top program that can be decided in abstraction from someone's individual interests. But, if we are forced to do so, it is simply misleading to identify Wisconsin as the best one. 

But, in this case, Wisconsin likely is the best.  Just like five years ago, Minnesota was the only place one would consider for early modern Dutch.  They lost the best Dutch historian of our era in the United States only recently (Tracy retired). Now, there is no strong EM Dutch in the USA. I would have put Minnesota above any other program in the nation, including Harvard and Yale, in that situation.

[gnossienne n.3]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Mellow said:

You seem to forget that I was replying to a comment by psstein which in fact identified those that were, in his opinion, the best programs in the history of science (medieval subfield): Wisconsin and "probably" Harvard. It is of course true that, to a certain extent, there is no top program that can be decided in abstraction from someone's individual interests. But, if we are forced to do so, it is simply misleading to identify Wisconsin as the best one. 

It's a wonder that you recognize the limits in the opposing argument, and yet fail to do so for your own. @psstein has had no difficulty admitting Wisconsin will not be the best choice for all comers, including medievalists. It is equally misleading to cast Chicago, Columbia, Harvard, or Princeton as top programs unilaterally, as you have done, especially without defining what "top" means beyond (apparently) name recognition.* The question of fit is a nuanced one. Your lack of respect for that nuance, not to mention the people you have engaged with in this discussion, has made this into a really pointless and circuitous argument.

*This is not an invitation for a definition. I doubt there's anything to be gained by debating this issue further.

[Imenol]

4 minutes ago, khigh said:

But, in this case, Wisconsin likely is the best.  Just like five years ago, Minnesota was the only place one would consider for early modern Dutch.  They lost the best Dutch historian of our era in the United States only recently (Tracy retired). Now, there is no strong EM Dutch in the USA. I would have put Minnesota above any other program in the nation, including Harvard and Yale, in that situation.

Ehm... what about Jan de Vries? He works on issues that overlap with Tracy's (Dutch economic history) and it seems to me that he is vastly more important for the field of economic history in general than Tracy. Harold Cook's recent book also seems to have been made quite a splash, and he is generally very well regarded as a historian of medicine.

[khigh]

2 minutes ago, Imenol said:

Ehm... what about Jan de Vries? He works on issues that overlap with Tracy's (Dutch economic history) and it seems to me that he is vastly more important for the field of economic history in general than Tracy. Harold Cook's recent book also seems to have been made quite a splash, and he is generally very well regarded as a historian of medicine.

de Vries is retired if I remember correctly. Cook is in history of science, not history proper.  He honestly didn't cross my mind, but I'm in political/cultural history. I could be wrong on them, but, honestly, the current professor I fangirl over is Ben Kaplan in London. 

[Yellow Mellow]

5 minutes ago, gnossienne n.3 said:

It's a wonder that you recognize the limits in the opposing argument, and yet fail to do so for your own. @psstein has had no difficulty admitting Wisconsin will not be the best choice for all comers, including medievalists. It is equally misleading to cast Chicago, Columbia, Harvard, or Princeton as top programs unilaterally, as you have done, especially without defining what "top" means beyond (apparently) name recognition.* The question of fit is a nuanced one. Your lack of respect for that nuance, not to mention the people you have engaged with in this discussion, has made this into a really pointless and circuitous argument.

*This is not an invitation for a definition. I doubt there's anything to be gained by debating this issue further.

You are right in that there is no point in debating the issue further. On the other hand, I still cannot see how I failed to respect the people that I have engaged with during the discussion. I simply believe that the placement record does not lie, and that although one should not go to Columbia, Harvard, or Princeton if they are not a good fit, the fact remains that those colleges have much better placement records across different fields than Wisconsin. Of course, there will always be exceptions and extraordinary professors everywhere, but I think that it is important to recognize general trends and not simply to shrug them off by saying that "everything depends on your particular case."

[Imenol]

4 minutes ago, khigh said:

de Vries is retired if I remember correctly. Cook is in history of science, not history proper.  He honestly didn't cross my mind, but I'm in political/cultural history. I could be wrong on them, but, honestly, the current professor I fangirl over is Ben Kaplan in London. 

Yes! De Vries did retire -I guess I was comparing him to Tracy because you pointed out that 5 years ago Wisconsin was the best in that field. 

[khigh]

2 minutes ago, Imenol said:

Yes! De Vries did retire -I guess I was comparing him to Tracy because you pointed out that 5 years ago Wisconsin was the best in that field. 

Minnesota, not Wisconsin. Huuuuuge difference, haha. 

I thought I was going crazy for a minute, but you're right.  There was more breadth to the field a few years ago.  I had always just wanted to study under Tracy.  i did get to meet him a few weeks ago and it's really depressing that he's not still around.

[ashiepoo72]

If anyone was wondering, gradcafe has a handy "ignore user" setting if you find yourself confronted by someone who is annoying and refuses to stop talking.

And just in case anyone cares about my 2 cents, Madison has a solid placement record and is, in fact, one of the top 20 programs which disproportionately places its grads in TT jobs. It has an excellent record. It may not be Princeton or Yale, but it isn't a program to scoff at.

[khigh]

On a lighter note, I was going through some of my old undergrad stuff to finally finish unpacking (after 7 months of living here) and came across two t-shirts from my old department History Club.

One year, our quote was "Historians don't math." Another year, it was "Man, do you even Jstor?" Both quotes came from a French Revolution class. I thought y'all might enjoy that.

[Tigla]

2 minutes ago, khigh said:

On a lighter note, I was going through some of my old undergrad stuff to finally finish unpacking (after 7 months of living here) and came across two t-shirts from my old department History Club.

One year, our quote was "Historians don't math." Another year, it was "Man, do you even Jstor?" Both quotes came from a French Revolution class. I thought y'all might enjoy that.

I just read this on the "Funny Rejection Results" thread on the forum. It both made my day and hurt a bit since I'm an economic historian.

[khigh]

3 minutes ago, Tigla said:

I just read this on the "Funny Rejection Results" thread on the forum. It both made my day and hurt a bit since I'm an economic historian.

It took us 20 minutes to form a circle. At least for our other simulation based classes, we met in the conference room and didn't need to worry about geometric shapes.  My undergrad used a lot of simulations to increase enrollment in history and political science courses.  We had a witch trial in Religion and Magic in Early Modern Europe, the whole French Revolution class, a mock senate session in Legislative Process (one of my minors was poli sci), and staff rides are required for Military History (ROTC requirement). A staff ride is going out to a field of battle and recreating/evaluating the battle to understand the history and determine what would have caused a different result.  

[anon1234567]

39 minutes ago, khigh said:

the current professor I fangirl over is Ben Kaplan in London. 

Then, apply to UCL. If you don't get in. You will end up doing your research anyway in Europe. Something to consider.  

[kyjin]

5 hours ago, michaelgi said:

I've had an e-mail from the DoGS at USC letting me know that I was on the wait-list, the results survey tells me that there is another American historian who is in the same boat. Whoever you are, if you're listening I'd love to find out which sub-field you're interested in? We can compare notes and lose our minds together! For anyone else, any idea how often people make it from the wait-list to the starting line-up? I appreciate that this obviously differs from program to program, but any information as a way to manage expectations would be very helpful.

For everyone else out there, stay strong! 

I'm a current student at USC, and we do usually have a few people move from waitlist to accepted. Depends on the year, but I think the last few years have had at least one or two? It depends how many from the initial round choose to say yes. Just remember that you may be waiting right up to April 15th; I actually got in on the waitlist for Michigan on decision day my year! 

[khigh]

28 minutes ago, anon1234567 said:

Then, apply to UCL. If you don't get in. You will end up doing your research anyway in Europe. Something to consider.  

I've spent time in London.  It's not my cup of tea, if you will. There are a few cities I don't think I could ever live in if I moved to Europe and Paris and London are at the top of that list. A lot of it may have been, at least with London, that I had spent a few weeks in Berlin and after that, the food in London was horrible.  I also didn't care for the people I encountered or hearing English everywhere. Paris was a different issue- the city smells horrible, like raw sewage and rotting meat.  

After this cycle, if I don't get in, I have a few choices. Most Dutch schools don't have deadlines until June, Rome is July, and the UMN Law School deadline is also July. 

[Dobby'sSocks]

57 minutes ago, khigh said:

On a lighter note, I was going through some of my old undergrad stuff to finally finish unpacking (after 7 months of living here) and came across two t-shirts from my old department History Club.

One year, our quote was "Historians don't math." Another year, it was "Man, do you even Jstor?" Both quotes came from a French Revolution class. I thought y'all might enjoy that.

A few years ago the department at my school made shirts that said “Historians do it Chicago Style.” 

[astroid88]

Is it a sign of anything if our POI hasn’t contacted us despite being admitted to the program? Is it like a “reluctant acceptance”? Should I contact them?

Having a hard time telling myself they really want you.