Sarah Bee

With pretty much everyone on this forum wanting to get into grad school.. it is inevitable that there's some misunderstanding as to why people quit graduate programs.
 
Well, I dragged this out of the Philosophy forum for your reading pleasure:
 
http://www.colorado.edu/sites/default/files/attached-files/APA%20Report%20document.pdf
 
Things got so bad that the department stopped admissions for this year while they try to hash things out. But what about the appearance on the outside and before the report was made public? People were fighting to get in. It was seen - and is still seen, per the report - as providing a great level of education. It's just, ya know, an environment that's hostile and harassment filled.
 
That's just one of the many reasons people quit.
 
I quit my first grad school because there was shouting and screaming and unprofessional behavior and expectations to attend events in my free non-business time and socialize with professors whether I wanted to or not.. alcohol.. throwing things.. shouting.. etc.. and I had no idea how RA/TA-ships were allocated and had no idea how teaching positions were distributed despite having one either.
 
I know a lot of people on this forum are going to look at what happened in Colorado at the Philosophy department and think "gee.. that's a bad situation, but a one off, and I'm sure my school will be fine... because of XYZ.. rationalize.. rationalize.." etc..
 
There's a lot of little Colorados out there that are ticking timebombs of ruined careers. Get to know the schools you're applying to and really do your best to feel them out. You can't avoid these things entirely, but you also need to remain empowered if they do occur. Speak up, report things that aren't right, and don't cater to a culture that is unprofessional in your workplace and place of education. 
 
There's a thread on the forum where a person asked if they should seek out a formal means to report a professor who dropped them mid-thesis with little excuse and little help to even find a new advisor. The reply from these forums? "oh, consider your future and career before you go and report anyone for any wrongdoing."
 
That's not the right approach. That's retaliation and should be completely unacceptable under any good University's policies. If the professor really did something wrong (which is up to the people assigned to making such decisions, not you) and there's a way and a venue to report a claim - it should be reported. Not swept under the rug.
 
In my case I had a "meeting" with the professor who was causing the problem, thinking I was being a mature adult and handling the issue - where my advisor was asking (demanding) me to do things that were blatantly against the University policies. I brought a copy of the handbook and cited how what was going on was wrong and needed to be corrected. I was told "It's grad school, suck it up, everyone has to do this sort of thing."
 
I quit within 48 hours of that failed meeting due to a series of stressful event (even a car accident for good measure!) and a complete lack of faith in the school and it's systems. I see people dreaming of getting in and posting rampantly on here about their hopes and aspirations and how it's their top pick. Yikes, if only they knew. I've done my best to PM a few people and gently/rationally voice my concerns, but I can't catch them all, you know? And not everyone will listen.
 
Often it's seen as the bitter rambling of a "failed student" - no, seriously, I quit. I was called by the department chair and dean and begged to come back. They didn't want to lose me.
 
And on top of all that, I've had it said to myself and seen it implied to others on this forum that people are somehow 'lesser' for quitting a program that is so screwed up. That's wrong too. Stop doing it, stop posting those things.  I know you want to get into graduate school and you've built it up as some grand dream.. but the reality is that some programs - even reportedly "good" ones (see: Colorado) - can be absolute awful situations for a graduate and should really be avoided until they correct their ways. 

Read this and didn't find it very helpful, nonetheless thought of sharing. Might help heal someone's bruised ego.
 
Being denied is never easy. It can feel like a real slap in the face after all the time and work you have put into your graduate school applications. If you are extremely upset, do not react by phone or in writing right away; give it a few days. As you reflect, consider the following advice.
 
1. Don't take it personally: Remember, under most circumstances the admissions committee is faced with a very difficult task: choosing a limited enrollment number from among a very large applicant pool. These individuals are doing their best in a very difficult situation.
 
2. Write a thank-you note: Remember to write and thank the person who signed your notification letter for taking the time to review your application.
 
3. Make sure nothing was missed: If you believe something was overlooked, call and ask about it—kindly. Ask if your most recent test score was received or if a recent transcript is in your file. You may want to verify that all of your recommendation letters were received.
If you sent a cover letter and it contained some very important information, check to be sure it was included when your application was read. On occasion, something may have been overlooked and if so, most admissions committees will provide another complete evaluation.
If they are unwilling to do so, or worse yet, are unwilling to take another look at that part of your application, perhaps you are getting additional information about whether this is really the right institution and program for you.
 
4. Ask if additional information could help: It never hurts to ask if more information from you could result in a second look.
 
5. Keep in mind that admissions committees make mistakes: On rare occasions, a decision to admit is accidentally entered as a denial. All admissions offices have several checks in place to ensure that the proper decision is communicated to the applicant.
However, in my time as a dean of admissions, letters of denial were mistakenly sent to a few applicants. It would not hurt to check this out—kindly, not in an accusatory way.
 
6. Request feedback and honor what you are told: Some admissions personnel will offer feedback for denied applications in person, over the phone, or in writing. If they do, ask for this feedback. Do not argue when you receive the feedback. Make sure you understand what was communicated, and be sure to thank the person.
 
7. Consider reapplying: Ask about the process by which you could apply again. If you've asked for feedback, think about how you could use that insight in your next application.
 
8. Practice patience and professionalism: If you want to send a positive message to the admissions committee, the opportunity is now. A mature, thoughtful attitude makes a huge and positive impression.
 
9. Remember the disappointment is temporary: This is a setback, not a final blow. You will succeed, even though the path right now is not as you planned.
I completely empathize with those who are denied admission. My first application to the doctoral program on the top of my list was denied. I was extremely disappointed and somewhat angry. I waited a few days, and then called the admissions office.
I learned my most recent standardized test score was not in my file, and I was told that an assessment of my academic skills did not come across in my letters of recommendation. The admissions office granted my request to send the updated test score and provide another recommendation letter—and one month later, I was accepted. I was even awarded one full year of coursework toward the completion of my residency requirement.
 
I realize this may not be the outcome every time—but you never know.
 
 
Source: http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/graduate-school-road-map/2013/02/15/how-to-handle-graduate-school-denials

Reading Sense and Sensibility, I somehow avoided it all this time. And, risking rage from any romanticists out there, Marianne is an extremely annoying character.
 
I'll need to re-read Lewis' The Monk or Stevenson's  Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde after this, I need to recuperate.

Just thought of sharing this.
 
College acceptances have started to roll in for high-school seniors, and for the next several months, much of the focus of the national media will be on those students vying to get into the three dozen or so most selective colleges and universities in the country.
By May, we’ll hear campuses, such as Stanford, Harvard, and Princeton, bragging about how they accepted on 1 out of every 10 applicants this year, and set another record for applications and the number of students they rejected, including hundreds of high-school valedictorians.
Although these elite institutions enroll fewer than 6 percent of American college students, you might conclude from these stories that very few students are accepted into college in the United States. Not so. There are some 5,300 colleges and universities in the U.S., and the vast majority of them accept far more applicants than they reject.
But for some parents and students today, college admissions has turned into a game, where getting to Go seems to be ultimate goal rather than the education or degree itself.
Consider the reactions of a few students and their parents who found out last week that they didn’t get accepted into the University of Virginia, one of the nation’s most elite universities, which accepts fewer than 30% of students who apply. Here’s what one parent wrote on a blog maintained by a senior assistant dean of admissions at the university, which gives outsiders a rare window into the admissions process:


As a parent I find myself stunned my daughter was denied...over 1360 on the SATs, almost a perfect 800 on the writing, ranked 6in her class and straight As and A+ all 4 years. Add to that on the varsity track team for 4 years, active in her community and carrying a full AP COURSE load this year where she's carrying a 4.8 out of a possible 5.0. Scratching my head wondering how she wasn't acceptable.
Or from some students:


Pretty confused as to how I didn't get in. With a 4.3 GPA, a 34 on the ACT, and being a National Merit Semifinalist, I'm wondering what could've been missing from my application for UVA to have denied me.


I have had my heart set on UVA since last year, and it kind of sucked to find out I wasn't accepted. It was the only school I cared about, and even though it was too expensive for me and my mom...I don't know what I did wrong.
Lots of factors influence the crafting of class at these top colleges, and in recent years that task has become even more difficult as applications have flooded these institutions (sometimes encouraged, of course, by the colleges themselves). At the very top of American higher education, there are few differences in quality between schools. In other words, they are all good.
But trying to tell parents their Johnny or Suzie is not the brightest student in the class or thebest athlete despite the fact that they received an A in every class since middle school and a trophy for just showing up all these years is sometimes impossible. It’s highly unlikely that any of these students will skip college or end up at a school of much lower quality because they weren’t accepted to UVA.
Jeannine Lalonde, the senior assistant dean who writes the UVA blog, told me that most of the comments that I saw were written in the heat of the moment, minutes or hours after the university released the decisions for those students who applied early (another set of decisions go out later this spring). “It’s a tough night, but I think most will move on quickly. In a few weeks, they’ll be excited about some other wonderful school,” she said.
But whether intentional or not, we’ve created a sense of entitlement among high-school students these days who have excelled within their own little world for much of their adolescence. College admissions is perhaps the first time where they are competing with a much wider world of talent, much like the one that they are about to enter for the rest of their lives.
A lesson in rejection is a good one to have at a young age as it makes you appreciate what follows even more and allows you to take No as an answer in stride in the future. While I congratulate those students accepted to UVA last week, they will have to wait a bit longer for that life lesson.
 
Source: http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140122172026-17000124-why-a-rejection-letter-from-harvard-or-other-top-colleges-can-be-surprisingly-helpful?trk=tod-home-art-list-large_0

lol yeah and I come from a very traditional set up wherein girls are married off before they hit 25. It's kind of like I rebelled and broke the established norms and on top of that, I am planning to fly to an alien country completely unaided for a better career. I guess, deep down, people are jealous and envious of others' success, and since they cannot say anything positive about you, they find it necessary to pass snide or demeaning comments to bring you down.  

lol yeah and I come from a very traditional set up wherein girls are married off before they hit 25. It's kind of like I rebelled and broke the established norms and on top of that, I am planning to fly to an alien country completely unaided for a better career. I guess, deep down, people are jealous and envious of others' success, and since they cannot say anything positive about you, they find it necessary to pass snide or demeaning comments to bring you down.  

The people who give me the most grief about it are married and miserable, and we all know that misery loves company. I'm sure many of them are looking at us saying, "Damn...I wish I could do that!"

lol yeah and I come from a very traditional set up wherein girls are married off before they hit 25. It's kind of like I rebelled and broke the established norms and on top of that, I am planning to fly to an alien country completely unaided for a better career. I guess, deep down, people are jealous and envious of others' success, and since they cannot say anything positive about you, they find it necessary to pass snide or demeaning comments to bring you down.  

The problem is, even when you do get married, they still give you the slant-eyed, why-aren't-you-at-home-raising-babies look/question. And they flip out if your career is the one that is determining where you and SO will spend the next 5-7 years. Sigh.

One of my programmes is going to inform in February, so I am really getting paranoid about that. The other one will get back with an acceptance or rejection in mid of March. Even if the university accepts me, the scholarship committee would inform in May whether they are going to fund me or put me on the reserve list (with an option to self-fund). 
Absolutely nerve-wracking! 

Already applied for several American and Canadian universities. I even applied for the u of Auckland in case I got nothing else... Hope I can get admitted sw, really want to be a quant afterwards.
Anyway, hope everyone realize your dreams.best

You get your first response from one of the schools you applied to
And it's earlier than you anticipated
and you're really excited because early usually means acceptance
and the letter says they aren't accepting ANY students
 
but at least they're sending your fee back...

That time when...
 
You get an email from admissions and get excited
And then realize you did not apply at this school
And you feel disheartened
And that they are likely sending this to all GRE takers above a certain percentile
And that they are inviting you to apply for their program
But that there is no application fee
But the application deadline passed a week ago
And you feel disheartened
But decide to send them an email to see if they will accept a late application anyway
 
Post your own "That time when..." or let me know if this has happened to anyone else. Cheers.

Dear spaceimmunology,
 
Based on your outstanding record, I’m extremely pleased to invite you to interview for a position in the David Rockefeller Graduate Program at The Rockefeller University.  

We will have two Open House visits in 2014 for all interviewing students, February 27-28 and March 6-7.  We will reimburse up to $500 of your travel expenses and will provide housing accommodations during your stay.  You will get a chance to talk with faculty and students about research, education, and life at Rockefeller, and to experience some of the special attributes of New York City.  You will be receiving a FedEx package with information about the University and the Open Houses in the next few days.

Please click here to complete a questionnaire as soon as possible regarding the organization of your visit to Rockefeller.  If you would like to communicate with the Dean’s Office about your visit, please write or call Kristen Cullen, Graduate Admissions Administrator and Registrar,cullenk@mail.rockefeller.edu; 212-327-8088. 
It is clear from your record that you have great potential for a career in science.  We look forward to meeting you in the coming months and introducing you to the special qualities of our graduate program.  Please contact me by telephone or e-mail if you would like any additional information.
 
 
All best wishes,
 
Sidney Strickland
Professor

Right now I'm all the full-emo stage.
 
"Don't dream too far, don't lose sight of who you are. Don't remember that rush of joy."
 
"Every so often we long to steal to Land-of-what-might-have-been.. but that doesn't soften the ache we feel when reality sets back in."

Loric,
 
I am sorry to hear about all the struggles you've had.
 
Well, any school that treats its students like your last Grad school did is not worth going to. It was not your fault. It's not as if you didn't get it. It was just that your Grad program didn't get how to handle a student who thought differently - the professor's Yale degree not withstanding. As I said, I have seen enough Ivy Graduates who don't know how to be a good academic, but who flood the academia.
 
And any Grad program in Arts that doesn't talk about "isms" is not worth its salt.
 
So, I would say don't worry about your past record and don't get tensed thinking about what might happen now. Just relax. 
 
If you can afford it, apply to some more funded programs whose profiles look as though they will be a good fit for you and if a Professor there responds to your email positively.
 
In the worst event, you can explore job options, work and save money and get back to Grad school next year with more experience.
 
It's not the end of the world. So, think positive and who knows, you may get in with funding.
 
Feel free to pm me if you need any advice about Grad applications.

I am giving up an alright job and have applied at eight schools. This would not be much of an issue except that I currently reside in Japan and my wife is Chinese. As such, we are paying roughly $1000 to get her green card. She has already informed her company that she will quit her job at the end of March and thereafter will not be eligible for a Japanese visa. We plan to travel for a few months this summer before going (back) to the United States so that I can start a program. If I don't get accepted anywhere, I think I'll...
Kickstart something Continue writing Consider finding a job After the weeping subsists, that is...

I keep having two daydreams about the Committee... in one, a professor runs in with my application, and as he bursts through the doors exclaiming "this is the one!" a shower of confetti explodes from the ceiling and a curtain pulls back to reveal a choir singing the Hallelujah Chorus as the dean wipes a tear from his eye.
 
In the other, the Committee has my application pinned to a wall and are throwing darts at it while laughing.

Just remember, some of those 3.9's will not be able to write to save their lives and will come off as people they don't want to work with either.
 
The advice I've gotten and given over the years is that the adcomm is made up of the people in your profession and academia in general. Think of how varied this group is. Now force them together to make a decision.
 
You'll be surprised at who is in your corner going to bat for you. For every prestige whore there's typically at least one "emotional buyer" who wont let the sob story with terrible scores be ignored. Play to your strengths when applying and hope you come off as interesting to a wide swath of people.
 
And for god's sake, don't write "ever since I was a child.."

Obsessively checking the Gradcafe result search page and the Spam box in Gmail...

Thank you, everyone, for your responses! Fortunately, all of my recommenders submitted their letters today. Yesterday, life seemed pretty bleak, but now I feel much better. 
 
I left out an important detail. My recommenders are not professors. Unlike professors, my recommenders do not carry the same kind of heavy workload, they do not have countless letters to write nor are they familiar with the process. I made sure to ask them if the target date was fair, if they had any questions or concerns. I gave them all a lot of guidance on these letters. They all said they would submit by my target date, that it was "more than enough time." If they wanted/needed more time, all they had to do is tell me. I'm very understanding and considerate. After all, they are doing me a favor. But they never hinted at that whatsoever. Then they didn't respond. That was my issue.
 
To give a sense of one of my recommenders...Today he said to me, "Maybe if I put these off long enough I won't have to do them at all." He was not joking. Shame on me for choosing this character. I immediately removed him from sending letters to my top two schools. I gave him plenty of opportunities to back out so I just don't understand. 
 
I set artificial deadlines for multiple reasons, but as I think about it now, I think a major reason is because I didn't trust my recommenders enough. 
 
You live and you learn, I guess. And boy, I have learned a lot in these two years after undergrad. 

Journalism covers so much more than "write for a newspaper." Yes, blogs are becoming huge, but the people who get into journalism (in my experience) do it because we love the in-depth research, interviewing people, chasing down a story. There's always, always going to be a need for that kind of information; always going to be a need for strong investigative journalism and the people who ask tough questions. Maybe the format will change, but newspapers 50 years ago were different from newspapers 50 years before that. Writing for NPR, Mother Jones, etc. is still journalism. Going into this field just means helping to re-shape it and decide on that new direction.

thats the best situation you can be in IMO.