Sigaba

Of course this is a highly personal decision, but as someone a few years into a political science PhD, I'd implore you to reconsider this (or at the very least give Chicago an honest chance) if you seriously want to get a tenure track job, and especially if you are interested in getting an R1 job. Getting an R1 job out of USC is nowhere near the norm. Ask professors at both schools which program they think will better equip you for your future goals -- yes they want you to come to their school, but they also want you to achieve your highest potential regardless. 
The advantages of coming from a top (as defined by the rankings) are massive. There's not a big difference in between, say Chicago or Ohio State. But the prestige differential in political science in between UChicago and USC is very large.
That being said, if your long-term interests involves California or if you never really cared for an R1 job, it's much less a big deal. 

Pretty sure that was my first impression of you as well ?

I know it really, really sucks to not be getting anywhere on your second try with a MA in hand.  I applied 3x in a row shortly after the Great Recession began when it seemed like everyone was applying to PhD programs to find some security for several years (and I was applying because I truly loved what I do and long wanted to get a PhD). i was exhausted after my second cycle (and one year after I got my MA). I wanted to take a year off but my (new) work colleagues encouraged me to try again one more time. With their help and bit of luck, I got in on the third try.  Yes, I was wiped, depressed, and broken after I got the acceptances and made a decision. The recovery to feeling like myself was very long. I encourage you to seek help if you can.
I don't disagree with @Sigaba's assessment of why PhD programs may be favoring US historians in this climate We don't know whether this result poster is a troll or what their work is actually on. As I mentioned a few pages back, PhD programs are being more self-conscious about who and what projects they're accepting as a result of BLM protests last summer. But what we do know is that the PhD programs are following the lead of the current academic job market, which is, frankly, strongly favoring folks doing race and ethnicity in US history, especially African Americans. Frankly, I am astounded by HOW MANY schools still do not have African American history specialists and this particular absence had to be pointed out by students and some faculty.
Hang in there. I know it's all very hard to take if you're not an Americanist or waited so long to get into a PhD program. THis pandemic definitely sucks but I've learned that there are always silver linings. Sometimes these silver liinings don't show up right away.

FWIW, the sensibility has been addressed by @TMP a couple of times in this thread.

The ongoing COVID-19 crisis theoretically makes completing the requirements for a doctorate more difficult to complete within the accelerated timelines departments may be using because of the financial uncertainties.
If you're an Americanist, you need one or two languages, one of which may be swapped for a skill. If you're  not an Americanist, one has to know the languages one needs to know. If you're an Americanist, you likely find enough archival sources nearby or even on line to do a great deal of research. If you're not an Americanist, the ebb and flow of the pandemic may make necessary travel impossible. If you're an Americanist, you can work as a teaching assistant in courses that may be more popular among undergraduates without needing to sacrifice time to get up to speed on a subject. If you're not an Americanist, and a department trims back on offering courses not centered around the United States, you are going to be behind the eight ball of a learning curve. A comment. I understand that this is a period of extraordinary uncertainty for applicants and that there may be a strong sense of frustration, even disappointment, because events are not unfolding as one would like. This being said, I urge all to understand that posts at the Gradcafe don't go away, and that there are faculty and staff among this BB's members.
Now is as good as a time as any to work on one's personal professional comportment. It's not what one says or what one asks that can lead to issues down the line, it's how one says something or how one asks a question that can prove to be an issue. FWIW, I have learned the hard way that professional academic historians pay very careful attention to tone and temperament. Or, as one professor with whom I subsequently became close asked himself "Who is this asshole?" The question came after I said something that was meant to be an ironic / humorous statement of respect.

FWIW, the sensibility has been addressed by @TMP a couple of times in this thread.

The ongoing COVID-19 crisis theoretically makes completing the requirements for a doctorate more difficult to complete within the accelerated timelines departments may be using because of the financial uncertainties.
If you're an Americanist, you need one or two languages, one of which may be swapped for a skill. If you're  not an Americanist, one has to know the languages one needs to know. If you're an Americanist, you likely find enough archival sources nearby or even on line to do a great deal of research. If you're not an Americanist, the ebb and flow of the pandemic may make necessary travel impossible. If you're an Americanist, you can work as a teaching assistant in courses that may be more popular among undergraduates without needing to sacrifice time to get up to speed on a subject. If you're not an Americanist, and a department trims back on offering courses not centered around the United States, you are going to be behind the eight ball of a learning curve. A comment. I understand that this is a period of extraordinary uncertainty for applicants and that there may be a strong sense of frustration, even disappointment, because events are not unfolding as one would like. This being said, I urge all to understand that posts at the Gradcafe don't go away, and that there are faculty and staff among this BB's members.
Now is as good as a time as any to work on one's personal professional comportment. It's not what one says or what one asks that can lead to issues down the line, it's how one says something or how one asks a question that can prove to be an issue. FWIW, I have learned the hard way that professional academic historians pay very careful attention to tone and temperament. Or, as one professor with whom I subsequently became close asked himself "Who is this asshole?" The question came after I said something that was meant to be an ironic / humorous statement of respect.

FWIW, the sensibility has been addressed by @TMP a couple of times in this thread.

The ongoing COVID-19 crisis theoretically makes completing the requirements for a doctorate more difficult to complete within the accelerated timelines departments may be using because of the financial uncertainties.
If you're an Americanist, you need one or two languages, one of which may be swapped for a skill. If you're  not an Americanist, one has to know the languages one needs to know. If you're an Americanist, you likely find enough archival sources nearby or even on line to do a great deal of research. If you're not an Americanist, the ebb and flow of the pandemic may make necessary travel impossible. If you're an Americanist, you can work as a teaching assistant in courses that may be more popular among undergraduates without needing to sacrifice time to get up to speed on a subject. If you're not an Americanist, and a department trims back on offering courses not centered around the United States, you are going to be behind the eight ball of a learning curve. A comment. I understand that this is a period of extraordinary uncertainty for applicants and that there may be a strong sense of frustration, even disappointment, because events are not unfolding as one would like. This being said, I urge all to understand that posts at the Gradcafe don't go away, and that there are faculty and staff among this BB's members.
Now is as good as a time as any to work on one's personal professional comportment. It's not what one says or what one asks that can lead to issues down the line, it's how one says something or how one asks a question that can prove to be an issue. FWIW, I have learned the hard way that professional academic historians pay very careful attention to tone and temperament. Or, as one professor with whom I subsequently became close asked himself "Who is this asshole?" The question came after I said something that was meant to be an ironic / humorous statement of respect.

FWIW, the sensibility has been addressed by @TMP a couple of times in this thread.

The ongoing COVID-19 crisis theoretically makes completing the requirements for a doctorate more difficult to complete within the accelerated timelines departments may be using because of the financial uncertainties.
If you're an Americanist, you need one or two languages, one of which may be swapped for a skill. If you're  not an Americanist, one has to know the languages one needs to know. If you're an Americanist, you likely find enough archival sources nearby or even on line to do a great deal of research. If you're not an Americanist, the ebb and flow of the pandemic may make necessary travel impossible. If you're an Americanist, you can work as a teaching assistant in courses that may be more popular among undergraduates without needing to sacrifice time to get up to speed on a subject. If you're not an Americanist, and a department trims back on offering courses not centered around the United States, you are going to be behind the eight ball of a learning curve. A comment. I understand that this is a period of extraordinary uncertainty for applicants and that there may be a strong sense of frustration, even disappointment, because events are not unfolding as one would like. This being said, I urge all to understand that posts at the Gradcafe don't go away, and that there are faculty and staff among this BB's members.
Now is as good as a time as any to work on one's personal professional comportment. It's not what one says or what one asks that can lead to issues down the line, it's how one says something or how one asks a question that can prove to be an issue. FWIW, I have learned the hard way that professional academic historians pay very careful attention to tone and temperament. Or, as one professor with whom I subsequently became close asked himself "Who is this asshole?" The question came after I said something that was meant to be an ironic / humorous statement of respect.

FWIW, the sensibility has been addressed by @TMP a couple of times in this thread.

The ongoing COVID-19 crisis theoretically makes completing the requirements for a doctorate more difficult to complete within the accelerated timelines departments may be using because of the financial uncertainties.
If you're an Americanist, you need one or two languages, one of which may be swapped for a skill. If you're  not an Americanist, one has to know the languages one needs to know. If you're an Americanist, you likely find enough archival sources nearby or even on line to do a great deal of research. If you're not an Americanist, the ebb and flow of the pandemic may make necessary travel impossible. If you're an Americanist, you can work as a teaching assistant in courses that may be more popular among undergraduates without needing to sacrifice time to get up to speed on a subject. If you're not an Americanist, and a department trims back on offering courses not centered around the United States, you are going to be behind the eight ball of a learning curve. A comment. I understand that this is a period of extraordinary uncertainty for applicants and that there may be a strong sense of frustration, even disappointment, because events are not unfolding as one would like. This being said, I urge all to understand that posts at the Gradcafe don't go away, and that there are faculty and staff among this BB's members.
Now is as good as a time as any to work on one's personal professional comportment. It's not what one says or what one asks that can lead to issues down the line, it's how one says something or how one asks a question that can prove to be an issue. FWIW, I have learned the hard way that professional academic historians pay very careful attention to tone and temperament. Or, as one professor with whom I subsequently became close asked himself "Who is this asshole?" The question came after I said something that was meant to be an ironic / humorous statement of respect.

Do what you can to minimize the temptation to reinvent the wheel.
Do your level best to learn from those who have gone before you and have asked similar questions.
Consider the utility of incorporating your questions into ongoing discussions.
When assessing the guidance you've received, consider the background, the expertise and the experience of the person who offered it.







If I sound snarky it is because this BB is going through a phase in which newer members are repeating questions that have been addressed many, many times. While this trend provides opportunities to get great guidance from experienced graduate students such as jullietmercredi, it also provides opportunities to miss equally sound guidance from experienced graduate students such as jullietmercredi.

IMO, this trend represents a "lost opportunity" for many of you to start the transition from being undergraduates to being graduate students. As graduate students, you will often encounter an implicit expectation that you are doing the leg work to find the answers to your own questions, and from there generating additional questions and answers. (In some quarters, this leg work is called "research".)

Additionally, some of you who are in your twenties may be walking into a buzzsaw as new graduate students. Your cohort is developing a reputation for having attitudes of entitlement and self-absorption. (Consider how members of the generation of 1965 talk about the OWS and Tea Party movements) Regardless of the accuracy of this perception (Christopher Lasch had the same complaints back in 1978), perception is reality.

While it is your choice as to what questions you want to ask and how you want to ask them, do not be surprised if those who are most capable of helping you decide to tune you out. If you think this can't happen to you, ask yourself why you're asking strangers on the internet for guidance rather than going into a professor's office and getting mentored?

My $0.02.

The cost differences will be breath taking but you will likely find that the greater L.A. area is not as dense as you expect. There are small communities to the north and east of CS Los Angeles that will feel breezy and sleepy as often as not.
Adjacent to CS L.A. is a significant metro stop served by a commuter train and multiple municipal bus services. If you're  willing to trade money spent on rent to time spent on trains/buses, you can broaden your housing options considerably.
Please do keep in mind that there are going to be mutually beneficial opportunities for housing after COVID-19. Renters and home owners will be looking for room/house mates. Now is as good a time as any to take stock of your strengths as a house mate, your list of deal breakers, and your thoughts on interpersonal skills you'd like to develop. 

Even though I was told by a professor that I might have gotten a job had I been born a decade earlier--"maybe"--I would never advise someone not to pursue a personal or professional goal. (The day I passed quals, the committee member who represented my outside field said Think of yourself as a teacher. By which he meant that it was my responsibility to give people information that enabled them to achieve their goals--my opinion of those goals notwithstanding.)
I would (and have) recommended doing a herculean amount of due diligence--including reading the OP again and again. There may be "nothing new" to some readers who are aware of some of the patterns that have been developing since the early 1990s. To many others, the post adds crucial nuance.
 I also recommend setting up job alerts in Linkedin and elsewhere so one understands how graduate degrees may or may not translate into requirements for job qualifications and professional experience. Some consultancies and government agencies require the kind of research experience that cannot quite be satisfied by a master's degree.
FWIW/Neither here nor there, I do take slight exception to the lumping together of the academic job market for professional academic historians as the most important key performance indicator of the profession's vitality or sustainability. 

The following passages are what I found especially controversial. 
IMO, when you attempt to take away a person's opportunity to fail, you also take away an opportunity to succeed. Also, the way I was trained as an educator, you do not mess around with or question others' motivation unless they specifically ask for guidance. Had @NoirFemme written that those who dream of being a history professor may find the path exceptionally challenging, or suggested that such individuals consider the benefits of broadening their constellation of motivational factors, I would have nodded in silent agreement.
But that's not what she wrote. Instead, she editorialized ("the height of conceit").
But also.. 
^The position that one's background alone bequeaths an understanding of how doctoral programs are designed, is debatable, especially given the absence of qualifiers. IME, it is the kind of generalization that historians are trained not to make -- autobiography is not history. One's background and experiences may provide additional insight, but do not, in and of themselves provide expertise.

Had @NoirFemme summarized her experiences as being consistent with what is being reported in this and other threads--with or without the disclosure of race, gender identity, and socio economic class, I would find her comments more memorable and less controversial.
You continue to conflate your individual experience as a graduate student in one history program as a global view of all doctoral programs as well as of thousands of higher education institutions. The latter is especially interesting as individual institutions are themselves trying to figure out if COVID-19 is the cause of their financial misfortunes or, as many administrators and consultancies are arguing, an accelerant. "Being honest" about one's experiences is crucial,  and, IMO, a conversation among historians is not well served by over generalizing and over simplifying cause effect relationships.

Positioning oneself in a role is not the same as fulfilling that role. You sought to establish an order by which people should consider applying to history graduate programs. For whose benefit did you offer the opinion? Certainly not for the benefit of "true believers" who might be able to submit application materials that resonate with like-minded professors who go on to do what history professors are known to do -- lean in and support graduate students who remind them of themselves. 

If you're as experienced as you say, then you are well aware of how unprofessional it is to form diagnostic interpretations in non clinical situations of individuals who are not your patients.
Moreover, given the persistent use of psychology to oppress women, your thumbnail sketch of women you don't like is dehumanizng.
I get it. Members of your cohort hurt you badly by excluding you from their activities. But how does lashing out at them anonymously really get you where you want to go or closer to the people who would want to spend time with you?

Your post inspires questions. The scale of the problem for whom? Would those of you who have earned  your doctorates had gotten TT jobs would you have the same concerns? (I can ask counterfactual questions -- I work at a consultancy. ? [And we're addressing similar questions.])
Are academic historians -- a group in which I include undergraduate history majors as well aspiring and current graduate students--paying an appropriate amount of focus to the question "What do we owe each other?" In my view, the fact that so many need to come to the Gradcafe to get information from strangers rather than being able to rely on the bespoke guidance of graduate students and professors during office hours, speaks poorly for the craft overall.
What are the ethical responsibilities of tenured professors to tell historians in training that getting a TT job is exceedingly unlikely? Where would we be if trailblazers like Du Bois and Woodson and Lerner and Kerber and Foner the Younger had been deterred by the obstacles they encountered and the sand bagging they endured? (At my department, I was one of a handful of graduate students being advised by a professor with a well earned reputation for never finishing (and placing) anyone. Were others supposed to pull me aside? I sometimes wish they had and I also understand why they could not. It was my responsibility to figure it out and my fuck up that I didn't do so in a timely manner.)
To borrow a question that some professional service firms have been addressing for decades--how does the historical profession increase the demand for its work while also commanding fees (in this case TT jobs) commensurate to the services it provides without sacrificing standards of practice and care?

The following passages are what I found especially controversial. 
IMO, when you attempt to take away a person's opportunity to fail, you also take away an opportunity to succeed. Also, the way I was trained as an educator, you do not mess around with or question others' motivation unless they specifically ask for guidance. Had @NoirFemme written that those who dream of being a history professor may find the path exceptionally challenging, or suggested that such individuals consider the benefits of broadening their constellation of motivational factors, I would have nodded in silent agreement.
But that's not what she wrote. Instead, she editorialized ("the height of conceit").
But also.. 
^The position that one's background alone bequeaths an understanding of how doctoral programs are designed, is debatable, especially given the absence of qualifiers. IME, it is the kind of generalization that historians are trained not to make -- autobiography is not history. One's background and experiences may provide additional insight, but do not, in and of themselves provide expertise.

Had @NoirFemme summarized her experiences as being consistent with what is being reported in this and other threads--with or without the disclosure of race, gender identity, and socio economic class, I would find her comments more memorable and less controversial.
You continue to conflate your individual experience as a graduate student in one history program as a global view of all doctoral programs as well as of thousands of higher education institutions. The latter is especially interesting as individual institutions are themselves trying to figure out if COVID-19 is the cause of their financial misfortunes or, as many administrators and consultancies are arguing, an accelerant. "Being honest" about one's experiences is crucial,  and, IMO, a conversation among historians is not well served by over generalizing and over simplifying cause effect relationships.

Positioning oneself in a role is not the same as fulfilling that role. You sought to establish an order by which people should consider applying to history graduate programs. For whose benefit did you offer the opinion? Certainly not for the benefit of "true believers" who might be able to submit application materials that resonate with like-minded professors who go on to do what history professors are known to do -- lean in and support graduate students who remind them of themselves. 

FWIW, we did Surface Pros a few years back. Things were going smashingly well and then things went sideways--battery life, graphics cards, overall performance. (No, I was not under my desk curled in the fetal position, sucking my thumb, I was looking for a Lemonhead I dropped--five second rule--and decided to do a duck and cover drill.)
Now, now we're back to Dell.
@goaldigger97, Lenovo customer service screwed me a year ago, I had a tantrum, and I may have made some kind of vow on Twitter, so I don't know what my next device will be. That being said, I've generally had good experiences buying refurbished ThinkPads from Lenovo's on line outlet.  If you go this route, I recommend that you set up an account linked to a method of payment so you can pull the trigger on a deal the moment you see it (devices tend fly off the shelves). Financing is available through Klarna.

The following passages are what I found especially controversial. 
IMO, when you attempt to take away a person's opportunity to fail, you also take away an opportunity to succeed. Also, the way I was trained as an educator, you do not mess around with or question others' motivation unless they specifically ask for guidance. Had @NoirFemme written that those who dream of being a history professor may find the path exceptionally challenging, or suggested that such individuals consider the benefits of broadening their constellation of motivational factors, I would have nodded in silent agreement.
But that's not what she wrote. Instead, she editorialized ("the height of conceit").
But also.. 
^The position that one's background alone bequeaths an understanding of how doctoral programs are designed, is debatable, especially given the absence of qualifiers. IME, it is the kind of generalization that historians are trained not to make -- autobiography is not history. One's background and experiences may provide additional insight, but do not, in and of themselves provide expertise.

Had @NoirFemme summarized her experiences as being consistent with what is being reported in this and other threads--with or without the disclosure of race, gender identity, and socio economic class, I would find her comments more memorable and less controversial.
You continue to conflate your individual experience as a graduate student in one history program as a global view of all doctoral programs as well as of thousands of higher education institutions. The latter is especially interesting as individual institutions are themselves trying to figure out if COVID-19 is the cause of their financial misfortunes or, as many administrators and consultancies are arguing, an accelerant. "Being honest" about one's experiences is crucial,  and, IMO, a conversation among historians is not well served by over generalizing and over simplifying cause effect relationships.

Positioning oneself in a role is not the same as fulfilling that role. You sought to establish an order by which people should consider applying to history graduate programs. For whose benefit did you offer the opinion? Certainly not for the benefit of "true believers" who might be able to submit application materials that resonate with like-minded professors who go on to do what history professors are known to do -- lean in and support graduate students who remind them of themselves. 

The following passages are what I found especially controversial. 
IMO, when you attempt to take away a person's opportunity to fail, you also take away an opportunity to succeed. Also, the way I was trained as an educator, you do not mess around with or question others' motivation unless they specifically ask for guidance. Had @NoirFemme written that those who dream of being a history professor may find the path exceptionally challenging, or suggested that such individuals consider the benefits of broadening their constellation of motivational factors, I would have nodded in silent agreement.
But that's not what she wrote. Instead, she editorialized ("the height of conceit").
But also.. 
^The position that one's background alone bequeaths an understanding of how doctoral programs are designed, is debatable, especially given the absence of qualifiers. IME, it is the kind of generalization that historians are trained not to make -- autobiography is not history. One's background and experiences may provide additional insight, but do not, in and of themselves provide expertise.

Had @NoirFemme summarized her experiences as being consistent with what is being reported in this and other threads--with or without the disclosure of race, gender identity, and socio economic class, I would find her comments more memorable and less controversial.
You continue to conflate your individual experience as a graduate student in one history program as a global view of all doctoral programs as well as of thousands of higher education institutions. The latter is especially interesting as individual institutions are themselves trying to figure out if COVID-19 is the cause of their financial misfortunes or, as many administrators and consultancies are arguing, an accelerant. "Being honest" about one's experiences is crucial,  and, IMO, a conversation among historians is not well served by over generalizing and over simplifying cause effect relationships.

Positioning oneself in a role is not the same as fulfilling that role. You sought to establish an order by which people should consider applying to history graduate programs. For whose benefit did you offer the opinion? Certainly not for the benefit of "true believers" who might be able to submit application materials that resonate with like-minded professors who go on to do what history professors are known to do -- lean in and support graduate students who remind them of themselves. 

You can do it. You will do it. 

If possible, consider the benefits of setting up a time table for completing and submitting the six remaining applications. Ideally, the time table will include breaks during which you'll take care of yourself.

Give some thought to the kind of workflow that will work for you best right now. Do you want to finish one application at a time? Will you feel better if you work on your top choices first? Would a 'production line' approach help?

What ever mix of tactics you select, understand that you've worked very hard to get to this point of the process and you're almost there. You will have time to relax during the holidays.

When it's time to get back to it, consider the advantages of a "lessons learned" exercise -- you will be submitting more applications as a graduate student.

You can do it. You will do it.

Guessing blindly...
Less inclined, fewer posts, people waiting for next season or deciding not to pursue a doctorate in history at all.

IRT fewer posts, it's my hunch that over the last several years, each application season brings more lurking and searching and less posting.
Intuitively, I think that among this season's applicants will come a handful of graduate students who will go on to achieve great things as professional academics. Maybe not Klio's answer to the USMA class of 1915, but one for the ages nonetheless.

Guessing blindly...
Less inclined, fewer posts, people waiting for next season or deciding not to pursue a doctorate in history at all.

IRT fewer posts, it's my hunch that over the last several years, each application season brings more lurking and searching and less posting.
Intuitively, I think that among this season's applicants will come a handful of graduate students who will go on to achieve great things as professional academics. Maybe not Klio's answer to the USMA class of 1915, but one for the ages nonetheless.

You can do it. You will do it. 

If possible, consider the benefits of setting up a time table for completing and submitting the six remaining applications. Ideally, the time table will include breaks during which you'll take care of yourself.

Give some thought to the kind of workflow that will work for you best right now. Do you want to finish one application at a time? Will you feel better if you work on your top choices first? Would a 'production line' approach help?

What ever mix of tactics you select, understand that you've worked very hard to get to this point of the process and you're almost there. You will have time to relax during the holidays.

When it's time to get back to it, consider the advantages of a "lessons learned" exercise -- you will be submitting more applications as a graduate student.

You can do it. You will do it.

You can do it. You will do it. 

If possible, consider the benefits of setting up a time table for completing and submitting the six remaining applications. Ideally, the time table will include breaks during which you'll take care of yourself.

Give some thought to the kind of workflow that will work for you best right now. Do you want to finish one application at a time? Will you feel better if you work on your top choices first? Would a 'production line' approach help?

What ever mix of tactics you select, understand that you've worked very hard to get to this point of the process and you're almost there. You will have time to relax during the holidays.

When it's time to get back to it, consider the advantages of a "lessons learned" exercise -- you will be submitting more applications as a graduate student.

You can do it. You will do it.

Let me be clear, I appreciate the tough love about the professor and totally respect the viewpoint, but I don't think it applies. I was on a fulbright english teaching grant at two highschools and auditing the courses for no credit. the professor consistently made entreaties and suggestions for me to get more involved. I DID begin writing a paper, and he literally said I could choose the deadline, he really wanted to see something from me, but personal stuff intervened (a stolen passport led to a lost month). I hope that doesn't sound cringey, just the professor explicitly said things like "I'd love for you to do something here, are you thinking about studying here next year" etc. By the standards of a student he owed nothing to, literally nothing, I believe he went beyond the baseline of your parenthetical statement. In other words it's completely my fault he probably couldnt do an LoR. He DID open the door, I didn't walk in. 

I will say though, he definitely egged me on in his classes for the sake of the actual grad students, thank you for that perspective, LOL. But I can't deny it doesn't make me feel I have potential if I (seemingly) frequently impressed him over students coming from a prestigious abitur, multiple language competencies, and a track BA program.

Ugh, just reread my post and I obviously meant "economic" downturn. But the new forum powers won't allow edits