prokem

If FES is online in the fall, I will strongly consider deferring. One of the big reasons why I chose it is the community, and it won't be the same if we're only meeting via Zoom. My experience with online classes hasn't been positive. Even though they'll be much better in the fall (I assume, bc they'll have had months to prepare vs just a few weeks), I'm just not learning that much and really miss the classroom setting. However, I'm not sure if they'll have a lenient enough deferral policy to allow me to do that (as I've heard HKS has done). if classes are online and they don't allow deferrals for that reason, then I'd rather do the online classes than take my chances reapplying, because I am pretty sure that admissions will be more difficult in the coming years due to more applicants and less university resources/slots.

I'm not in a similar situation, but happy to talk about F&ES (or should we say SOE now?) and any concerns you have or that we share!

It's definitely a tough decision. Yale is going to announce plans for the Fall by July, so hopefully you can delay until then and make a more informed decision. my experience with online classes has been subpar, and even though schools will have more time to improve them between now and the fall, I doubt that they will be worth the price of tuition. for me, a big component of grad school is the network and relationships. If that's also really important to you, it's worth considering how that aspect will be diluted thru online classes. i think a lot of it depends on how happy you are with your job. If you're dying to get out of it and aren't too worried about the implications of distance learning, then come to FES. If you like it, I'd consider staying. The last thing to think about is FES' deferral policy. It is not clear to me if they're being more lenient about it with covid. But if they are that would be a good option. I will look into it myself if classes are online.

It's official, I put down my deposit at F&ES today! I am feeling a bit sad about turning down Michigan-- I really loved the professors and course offerings there, some even more so than at Yale. But in the end I was just more familiar with the program, people, and location of Yale so I felt much more comfortable committing there (among other reasons). Now I can focus on being stressed out by the possibility of online classes in the fall ??

Don't disagree with your main points, but it's important to point out the Boston University has NOT announced it'll have online classes. Just like any other smart educational administration, they are coming up with plans for the possibility that classes will be remote.

I got into an MPP program straight out of undergrad so being an LA can only be a benefit. Like others have said it is a job where people are often rapidly promoted which will help your prospects. Admissions decisions differ every year so it's not like you'd be a guaranteed rejection at HKS/WWS if you applied after 2 years of being an LA. Some years there are overqualified people that are rejected and in others under qualified people are accepted. That being said, you might be at a slight disadvantage if all you've done is grunt work. That's why it's so important to have a well rounded app (great undergrad GPA and relevant coursework, relevant internships, high GRE scores, and perhaps most importantly coherent, well written essays with specific and clarified career goals that are backed up by your experience). You probably know all that, but it will be important to show how the few years of being an LA helped you realize your passions, gave you experience on important policy matters, etc. I would also recommend getting involved in service, professional, or interest groups outside of work to back up your stated intentions and show that you have leadership and public service in your DNA. Overall, if this is your dream job, go for it! There are always ways to weave your experiences into a great application, regardless of if you are an LA or a kindergarten teacher. You will probably find this much more rewarding than if you took a job you weren't as interested in, and that can be used to your benefit on apps. On the other hand, if you find you don't like it, it's still a valuable experience that you can use to help you pivot. And in the end, you might find you don't need that shiny (and expensive) HKS or WWS degree to do what you love!

Personally I would go Ford all the way. It's a great program in its own right, maybe just a notch below HKS, and having full funding is huge. Unless HKS places immensely better in the location and specific sector you want to go into (and even then Ford would still look pretty good) or is weak in your specific policy area, it would be a no brainer for me.

Am I the only one secretly hoping that my application ends up getting reviewed on the HKS blog? I wouldn't mind being put on blast for some free feedback ?

Now that Ford is mostly done with their slate of virtual admitted students events, does anyone have any impressions, know their final decision, etc?

I'm still a little bit surprised SEAS hasn't moved their decision deadline back. It seems like so many other big environmental programs have. Especially surprised given their rep as a progressive school. @Aj116 I'm also deciding between SEAS(+Ford) and FES!

I think that I'll add one more thing: every school is going to be what you make of it. There is no question that you could go to McCourt and work in the energy field, dig up resources at Georgetown, get involved with professional groups in the area, and come out prepared for a meaningful career in energy. I only mean to say that it will be harder to do so and you will have less to work with than at a place like Duke, for example.

I am interested in climate policy, and when I looked at McCourt I was very underwhelmed. They have more classes focused on energy than climate but still very limited. Sure, they have the Georgetown Climate Center which is great, but if you want to become a specialist in the area it's probably not the right place, given that they don't have specializations. If you look at their full time faculty by specialty you'll find none in energy policy, 2 in env econ, 1 in env law, and then those three plus one other in env policy. I've definitely run into a few McCourt grads in the environmental world but not too many compared to other programs. In terms of careers, I would say an MPP in energy is not too lucrative, especially if you want to do public sector work. Even with consulting I don't think it's too lucrative because cities often work with philanthropic groups for advising on climate projects. Local government action is hit or miss. Some cities are doing lots, other not much at all. A lot of it depends on their resources, which are often limited. It's hard for them to appropriate millions and billions in their budgets for climate when they have other immediate and pressing issues. If you're really interested in the field though, then the lucrativeness of a job doesn't have to be your main priority!

Definitely a tough situation for many of us. Personally, I wouldn't advise turning down your top choice based on possibilities/conjecture. I'm in NYC right now and it's definitely a sh*tshow. But they're also projecting that we'll peak in a few weeks. There are many other parts of the country that are still in their nascent stages of infection and spread, which means, in many cases, they will be dealing with this for longer than we will here in NY. It's impossible to say if Raleigh will be one of those places, but it seems to me like a risk either way. Have you considered the possibility of deferring? I am sure that schools will be more accommodating with them than usual. I completely agree that it doesn't seem totally worth it to start school online.

Good points! Like I mentioned I'm hoping that this week of virtual events will bring more clarity. On the point of Yale not having too many profs in adaptation and resilience, I would only say that it is a relatively new discipline and one that is still emerging. Most of the people I've interacted with in the field do not have a graduate background in it specifically. I think it would be helpful for me to talk to some of them, regardless of what grad program they went to, about the state of the field and some essential skills they picked up in grad school.

@Karam2022, thank you for starting this thread! It is great to see that many of you face a good problem, i.e. choosing between many great programs. I would suggest adding your career goals, and, if you can, a general sense of the location you'd like to end up in, as both of these factors could tilt your decisions in one way or the other. I wish that I could give all of you helpful advice, but I don't have the years of acquired knowledge that many of you do. The one thing I would suggest is try to leverage your funding offers if you haven't already! Coming from: Current senior at a small west coast LAC Deciding between: a dual MPP/MS from Michigan's Ford School and SEAS. SEAS has offered me $15k for the first year. MEM from Yale F&ES Other factors: I am very lucky that funding does not have to be my main consideration. As it stands, however, Yale would be the cheaper option by a decent margin (surprisingly) even with no funding. I like the idea of having a strong combo of both science based/technical education and a strong policy education. Both programs can offer that IMO. I am hoping to end up working in a climate policy think tank/non profit, either in DC or NYC-- from what I've learned it seems like Yale has better connections to those areas and types of jobs. A main consideration for me is how to weigh professors vs. students. At SEAS, I have been really impressed with the professors, not only their experience, but with how accessible and open they seem. They also have professors who explicitly specialize in my area of interest (adaptation and resilience). At the same time, my interactions with admitted students at SEAS have made me a little apprehensive and I worry that I may not end up in as challenging a learning environment as I'm hoping for. At Yale, I haven't been able to interact with professors as much, but from speaking to current and former students, they do seem to be a little less accessible, and from what I've seen thus far they don't have many in my specific area of interest. On the other hand, F&ES admitted students are much more diverse in terms of country of origin, race, years of experience, types of experience, etc, which I value. I haven't been able to have very many interactions with Ford students and profs. Hoping this week's slate of virtual events gives me some clarity! I'm also keeping the coronavirus factor in the back of my mind. I don't think I'd want to shell out thousands of dollars for an online education when half the purpose is building a network and relationships, so a deferral is always possible, though I don't know what I'd do for that year off, especially with a recession. How I'm leaning: Right now, I am leaning towards Yale. I like the idea of a smaller, more experienced cohort with peers that will challenge me and push me to be better. I also think that Yale would offer better career opportunities at the outset, though maybe only slightly. Having an MPP would make me a more attractive job candidate though, and would allow me to broaden my job horizon. Having the SEAS expertise and the Ford relationships/name/quant background to leverage would be a great combo. UM might allow me to gain greater depth in both climate resilience and policy, whereas Yale may offer me more breadth. Lots to think about! Thoughts on depth vs. breadth are welcome!

Program Applied To (MPA, MPP, IR, etc.): MPP, MES, MS, and MEM Schools Applied To: Yale F&ES (MEM), Harvard Kennedy (MPP), Michigan Ford (MPP), Michigan SEAS (MS), UPenn LPS (MES) Schools Admitted To: Yale, Ford, SEAS ($$), UPenn Schools Rejected From: Harvard Still Waiting: N/A Undergraduate Institution: Top 40 liberal arts college Undergraduate GPA: 3.89 Undergraduate Major: dual, public policy and environmental analysis GRE Quantitative/Verbal/AW Scores: 151 (yikes!)/162/6 Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 0 Years of Work Experience: ~2-3 while in school Describe Relevant Work Experience: internships with local representative, city climate agency, and climate policy think tank. Worked at on-campus environmental research institute for 3 years. TA’d for policy class where we work with DC think tanks (Brookings, BPC, etc). Wrote policy for a 2020 presidential candidate. Lobbied for climate leg in NY, oversaw student organizing. Led campus political org and held leadership in state youth party’s environmental caucus. Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Varied by school. I tried really hard to make each specific to the school. Broadly, I talked about my personal experience with my policy issue of interest, detailed the steps I’d taken and experiences I’d had related to it that helped me figure out a specific career path/goal, and then talked about how each of the schools would help me get there. I cited specific classes, profs, institutes, etc. Penn and HKS were probably my weakest: Penn because they didn’t have very specific prompts, and HKS because it was the first one due. Yale and UM were definitely my strongest, in no small part because I had more time to write them. Their prompts also gave me more room to showcase my personality, personal experiences, and values, and connect them to each school. My Yale and UM ones took about a month to refine, but it was hard because I was writing thesis and taking classes. I’d really recommend budgeting a good amount of time to write SOPs when your life isn’t hectic. Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): They did the trick so they must’ve been strong enough! One from an environmental policy prof who I’ve taken 3 classes with and was my thesis advisor, one from a public policy prof who I’ve taken a class with, TA’d for, and who also was a thesis advisor, and one from an internship supervisor who essentially has the job that I’m aiming for. I think it helped that two of my recommenders have known me pretty well for years, and have seen me in a variety of roles: as a student, as an employee/TA, and as a thesis advisee. I also knew beforehand that they thought highly of me. I haven’t seen the one my internship supervisor wrote but she was working in the specific policy area that I’m interested in, so I think that helped. Other: At the outset of applications, I was definitely worried about my chances of getting into top programs due to lack of work experience and not-so-great GRE scores. However, I think my profile is a testament to mitigating perceived weaknesses through relevant coursework (I’ve only taken ~3 quant classes, but have done well in all) and non-full time work experiences. If you have concerns about your weaknesses, it’s really important to highlight your strengths and make them seem unique throughout your essays, resume, and other aspects of your profile. I hope that people reading this in future application seasons can find some hope-- don’t count yourself out! Also, I didn’t submit my GRE scores to Yale. I would also say I was helped by being a somewhat linear candidate in that the work experience I do have is directly related to what I want to study and my future career goals.

Yeah I was wondering about that too! I hadn't been expecting anything until at the earliest around April 15th. I wonder if that means that some of the older admits with job security are choosing to forgo spending thousands on grad school in a recession.

Congrats to you too!! I'm also wondering (and hoping).

Today I found out that I was accepted off of the Yale F&ES waitlist! I'm so overjoyed I've been beaming for like 4 straight hours. It's been my top choice program ever since I went to an admissions event at my school 3 years ago, though I do have to strongly consider getting 2 degrees and $15k in funding from UM. Please feel free to give your personal opinions on F&ES vs. Ford/SEAS! For those still on the waitlist: don't give up hope! I was really surprised they accepted me so quickly, so I have to imagine that there will be a good amount of slots left to fill. If you're wondering how it happened: About a day or two ago, i got an email from them asking if I'd still like to be on the waitlist, then today I got an email notifying me about a new notification on my portal.

That's what Michigan is saying too. Although the dean did hedge his bets and said they're going to be getting better at online stuff over the summer, or something along those lines

Don't know the answers to your questions but just wanna say I'm in the same boat! Would love to hear if anyone has answers. on 2, anecdotally I've heard that Nic is much more focused on energy and might have more of a quant/Econ grounding than FES. I think their cohorts are likely to be a little younger. I also believe that they'll have a slightly different distribution in terms of where people end up, although I interned in an office that had a Nic and FES alum ?

I didn't get that sense re: the dual degree at all during my convo. If I go to SEAS it would be with a dual degree at Ford, and to the contrary, my advisor was telling me how I could still get a great policy education solely at SEAS. Was a little confused lol

Yes, I attended (and it's still going on). I read on the admitted students facebook page that they are going to do a separate one for international students in the coming weeks. I found out about some interesting-sounding fellowships that I may apply to later on. The graduate instructor positions are also a huge plus-- they cover full tuition and provide health insurance and a stipend. ? The convo with my advisor was fine. I didn't really have many questions so it was more just getting to know her a bit better. I'm pretty interested in her research and she seemed really nice and welcoming. Seems like a good potential fit! TBH I haven't learned too much from the info sessions/Q&A. I would've liked to hear a bit more about plans for SEAS' development in the coming years-- when that question was asked, the dean mostly talked about fundraising and the endowment. One thing I noticed in my EPP track info session (and in my convo with my advisor) was that they were saying you could get a great policy education at SEAS, just focused on environmental policy. That differs a bit from what I've heard from some current students, who've told me that Ford is much more rigorous when it comes to a policy education. I was also a little ~let down~ by some of the questions people asked: there were a good amount that seemed pretty basic and easy to find answers to online. Does that say anything about the incoming class/student body? Probably not, but it still made me think. And lastly, the dean said all signs are pointing to SEAS (and UM more broadly) having in-person classes in the fall, which was a big relief to hear. Though I swear I heard him say something about possibly having to get to know each other via video calls in the fall? Maybe I misheard though. I'd love to hear other insights from anyone else who joined in today!

Rejected, but was expecting it being straight from undergrad. Congrats to everyone who was accepted!

Just want to bump this thread so other admitted students might see it. Did anyone attend their webinar today?