Factors to consider when committing to a program

[jvvne]

Hi folks! 

I only applied to 3 schools this go-round. I've gotten accepted to 2/3--the non-admittance is UPenn. Some weird things happened with that application (they were sending confirmation emails to an email I never supplied them, and then one of my letters of recommendations seems to have disappeared off the application site??? its a big mess!) so I'm not exactly counting on being accepted--which is just fine! Now I've just got to chose between the two! 

I'm currently finishing up an MFA program, and I've had a real tough time while doing so. The school, location, faculty, etc etc, all ended up not being a great fit to say the least. So this time I wanted to get it right, and I now often doubt my own ability to chose what is right for myself in the first place  I have a big chart with all the info from the schools where I've been accepted, and so far I am weighing the following factors:

-Faculty--engagement/activity with students and in their fields, fit for my research, general feeling they give on the school sites

-Amount & type of funding, teaching load 

-Classes offered, ability to take courses outside the department, how rigorous the syllabi are if they're posted 

-Location, cost of living, general feeling I can gather without actually going there (again--finishing up a thesis doesn't leave me with very much time to travel!)

is there anything else truly essential that I need to weigh out while deciding? And is there a best method for doing so besides a chart in the back of my planner? I considered getting a feel for the types of candidates at each place, but that feels to judge-y. 

Any/all feedback would be so wonderful !!

Edited February 8, 2018 by jvvne

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

Consider funding for conferences, if they're set up so you do multiple smaller research projects with the opportunity for publication before starting your dissertation, if they have any job skills events (training for interviews, networking events, CV writing, etc). Also consider your advisor's style and if it matches with what you need (communication frequency, are they nice or blunt in their delivery of advice, etc), talk to students to see what the expectations are (are they in the lab 12+ hours a day, do they seem stressed, do they have any sort of outside life, etc), and, if you want to go into academia, really pay attention to the TAships and training your receive there. As a TA, will you be a grader, lecturer, instructor of record, have the opportunity to help or individually develop and teach a course, or take other opportunities that will prepare you to succeed in the field? If you're going into industry, are there networking and socialization events with industry professionals? Any opportunities within the program to give you a leg up when going out on the job market?

 

Just a few things you might want to discover before saying yes.  

[a_sort_of_fractious_angel]

This is a great idea for a thread @jvvne - thanks for kicking it off! 

I'm starting to think about these things myself and I am looking at all the factors you list above. One additional Q you may (?) not have listed here: how will the department help you grow? Do you want to grow in the areas that the dept is strong in/known for?

While gathering data/sorting through it, I've been thinking about what I really loved and really didn't love about my MA experience. Doing that has helped me come up with some hard yes/no opinions. I was surprised to discover these things post-applying, lol, and there are not many of them but they're helping me get a handle on how I want my academic life to shape up.

Do you have anything you LOVE about your MFA? Conversely, anything you loathe that is tangible? Judging teaching styles/interpersonal stuff may be a bit tricky from a distance but location, money, free printing (I'm real hung up on that, haha) may be identifiable now and, in turn, helpful for decision making.

Also, one other thing - can you see your programs handbooks? One of my schools does not openly share it but I emailed them with a Q and got the handbook in return and it's really helpful. I doubt any school would withhold information that you need/want to make a decision.

[jvvne]

13 minutes ago, GreenEyedTrombonist said:

, and, if you want to go into academia, really pay attention to the TAships and training your receive there. As a TA, will you be a grader, lecturer, instructor of record, have the opportunity to help or individually develop and teach a course, or take other opportunities that will prepare you to succeed in the field? If you're going into industry, are there networking and socialization events with industry professionals? Any opportunities within the program to give you a leg up when going out on the job market?

 

Just a few things you might want to discover before saying yes.  

I'm so glad you mentioned this--I hadn't yet thought to look into what pedagogical courses TAs are required to take and what the courses are like; i'll add it to the list!

[jvvne]

@a_sort_of_fractious_angel thank you so much!!! I've thought kind of generally/philosophically about how I hope to grow from a Ph.D., but haven't really written it out exactly/plainly yet--I think this would help !

I have, of course, thought a lot about what i disliked about my current program lol but! I do love the idea of considering very concretely what i absolutely do or do not want to repeat from my MFA experience (free printing is important! it adds up!!) and spelling it out on paper. 

Both programs have been incredibly great about supplying all that handbook-type information, which is already a good sign  

[a_sort_of_fractious_angel]

5 minutes ago, jvvne said:

@a_sort_of_fractious_angel thank you so much!!! I've thought kind of generally/philosophically about how I hope to grow from a Ph.D., but haven't really written it out exactly/plainly yet--I think this would help !

I have, of course, thought a lot about what i disliked about my current program lol but! I do love the idea of considering very concretely what i absolutely do or do not want to repeat from my MFA experience (free printing is important! it adds up!!) and spelling it out on paper. 

Both programs have been incredibly great about supplying all that handbook-type information, which is already a good sign  

Dope! Yea, I felt (and still feel, this isn't over yet, haha) overwhelmed comparing two of my programs until I realized that my work will shift somewhat while I'm there. So, I wrote down their strengths/tracks/areas of focus and am now thinking about which areas/tracks are most appealing to me. Also, looking at connected programs or centers may help - do your schools have a Humanities Institute or Center for American Studies [or something equally dope that will be useful to your professional and academic identity?] 

And hahaha, I figured - hopefully concrete annoying stuff will help, though. Even little stuff, like printing. Or the lounge situation.

Some other concrete yes/no things I've been tracking down (some of which overlap your Qs)... teaching the first year; office hours space (shared office vs. library/open space); writing workshops/groups; coursework in other departments; coursework at other universities; and the possibility for an external member on the dissertation (if needed.)

[rising_star]

Summer funding should be on your list for sure.

[maengret]

11 hours ago, a_sort_of_fractious_angel said:

Also, one other thing - can you see your programs handbooks? One of my schools does not openly share it but I emailed them with a Q and got the handbook in return and it's really helpful.

 

It's not obvious to me -- what would I be looking for in the handbooks?

[a_sort_of_fractious_angel]

6 hours ago, maengret said:

It's not obvious to me -- what would I be looking for in the handbooks?

Hi! So, I found some useful nuts and bolts kind of stuff, like

- The semester-by-semester breakdown of expectations for the average time to completion 

- The semester-by-semester breakdown of expectations for an accelerated time to completion

- when & how the department evaluates satisfactory progress

- policies re: coursework such as distribution requirements, the transfer of MA coursework, and coursework outside the dept/university

- dissertation policies (for example, can an external faculty member sit on the diss committee and, if so, what are the rules for that)

- department-specific requirements, such as language requirements or special paper/presentation requirements

- specifics on teaching load, preparation, and timeline

 

 

[maengret]

@a_sort_of_fractious_angel Ah, this is helpful! Thank you for spelling it out for me.

[gregs]

I have a question: how locked in are funding offers? In whatever document/terms you sign onto when you accept a funding offer, is there any type of clause that gives the school the right to rescind or renegotiate funding in future years, even in the case of good performance by the student?

I ask only because, even if this week's stock market woes are fake news, there's still a not insignificant chance that the economy takes a downturn sometime while we're all in grad school. Should that happen, and money potentially dries up, would schools still be required to abide by the terms of their offer letters? I wonder how this was handled for students entering programs ~2006.

[littlemy]

19 minutes ago, gregs said:

I have a question: how locked in are funding offers? In whatever document/terms you sign onto when you accept a funding offer, is there any type of clause that gives the school the right to rescind or renegotiate funding in future years, even in the case of good performance by the student?

I ask only because, even if this week's stock market woes are fake news, there's still a not insignificant chance that the economy takes a downturn sometime while we're all in grad school. Should that happen, and money potentially dries up, would schools still be required to abide by the terms of their offer letters? I wonder how this was handled for students entering programs ~2006.

I haven't really thought about this, but I think it's a really important question. Just imagining the situation is so painful.

[jrockford27]

The most important thing is also perhaps the hardest to gauge: that is, do you have the sense that the program's grad students are well treated, and that they feel supported by the program.  I think you should really ask this of a variety of grads in the program if you have the opportunity to meet them.

You can have a first class funding offer, but if the grad students tell you that they feel like the faculty aren't invested in them and their success, that should be a major, major red flag.  You might also be able to sense this, as I've written elsewhere, in the quality of the program's recruitment.  Do they go out of their way to actually, y'know, recruit you, or do they treat you like an afterthought.

Do not be afraid to ask these questions.  You'll probably find that grads will give you honest answers, and if the answers aren't 100% honest, you might still be able to read between the lines. As many of you already well know, most grad students will not pass up an opportunity to lament a terrible situation.  Remember, this is 5-10 years of your life (depending on the program, you should also DEFINITELY ask about average "time to degree") that you will never get back.  You may take an offer at that school whose name will really impress the folks back home but find that the actual experience of that place isn't so great.

Edited February 10, 2018 by jrockford27

[jvvne]

3 hours ago, gregs said:

I have a question: how locked in are funding offers? In whatever document/terms you sign onto when you accept a funding offer, is there any type of clause that gives the school the right to rescind or renegotiate funding in future years, even in the case of good performance by the student?

I ask only because, even if this week's stock market woes are fake news, there's still a not insignificant chance that the economy takes a downturn sometime while we're all in grad school. Should that happen, and money potentially dries up, would schools still be required to abide by the terms of their offer letters? I wonder how this was handled for students entering programs ~2006.

I'm not sure, especially since many of the documents i've actually been asked to signed aren't much more than a page and not very detailed. I know that my particular MFA program had a good amount of financial turmoil during my time but students/TAs never really felt in in terms of how much money/support we received. I think the department was able to pull money from the larger University/state funding as needed to ensure that we didn't get paid any less. We could certainly feel it in other ways, though--like faculty being let go and nobody filling their positions, for example. In any case, it seems like schools are generally willing to work pretty hard to make sure students receive the money they were promised! 

[CulturalCriminal]

In regards to rescinded funding, I’m not sure they can back out if you take the offer. That said, they can rescind admission. Back in 2008/9 (great recession+California budget crisis) I was admitted and had accepted offer to go to Fresno State with a housing grant. A few months later, I was one of many people who got a letter indicating that (due to the budget crisis) they had to rescind my admission to the university. Looking back, I realize things worked out and doubt I would even be interested in PhD (much less be finishing a lit MA and engaged to the love of my life). That said, I’m still a little sore about it.

however, I doubt any program will have to take such drastic steps right now. It was less the recession’s fault than it was poor state governance at the time. Even then, I doubt UCs or CSUs turned away accepted, full time and funded grad students during that year.

[LibraryLivingJT]

Thanks for this thread! Only acceptance so far this round is U Del, but hopefully I will get one or two more acceptances. Regardless, this thread is good food for thought. 

[LibraryLivingJT]

On 2/8/2018 at 3:03 PM, jvvne said:

Hi folks! 

I only applied to 3 schools this go-round. I've gotten accepted to 2/3--the non-admittance is UPenn. Some weird things happened with that application (they were sending confirmation emails to an email I never supplied them, and then one of my letters of recommendations seems to have disappeared off the application site??? its a big mess!) so I'm not exactly counting on being accepted--which is just fine! Now I've just got to chose between the two! 

I'm currently finishing up an MFA program, and I've had a real tough time while doing so. The school, location, faculty, etc etc, all ended up not being a great fit to say the least. So this time I wanted to get it right, and I now often doubt my own ability to chose what is right for myself in the first place  I have a big chart with all the info from the schools where I've been accepted, and so far I am weighing the following factors:

-Faculty--engagement/activity with students and in their fields, fit for my research, general feeling they give on the school sites

-Amount & type of funding, teaching load 

-Classes offered, ability to take courses outside the department, how rigorous the syllabi are if they're posted 

-Location, cost of living, general feeling I can gather without actually going there (again--finishing up a thesis doesn't leave me with very much time to travel!)

is there anything else truly essential that I need to weigh out while deciding? And is there a best method for doing so besides a chart in the back of my planner? I considered getting a feel for the types of candidates at each place, but that feels to judge-y. 

Any/all feedback would be so wonderful !!

I second the importance of faculty/student engagement- as someone who thrives with one to several close mentors, I know the program I accept an offer from will need a good track record of faculty/student relations. 

[Crow T. Robot]

3 hours ago, jrockford27 said:

You can have a first class funding offer, but if the grad students tell you that they feel like the faculty aren't invested in them and their success, that should be a major, major red flag.  You might also be able to sense this, as I've written elsewhere, in the quality of the program's recruitment.  Do they go out of their way to actually, y'know, recruit you, or do they treat you like an afterthought.

Seconding this on quality of recruitment being predictive of quality of faculty support. My MA program--the 4+1 at my undergrad school--made it very clear that it was interested in me. Even though some of that was probably due to existing relationships I had with some faculty, I found that even professors I didn't know from undergrad were very supportive and enthusiastic about my enrolling in the program. The sense of being-recruited that I got from the program was what sold me on it, and as @jrockford27 mentioned, ultimately proved predictive of the high quality of mentoring I got during my time there. Because of this experience, I'm definitely paying close attention this season to the frequency and quality of contacts from the programs that I'm accepted/waitlisted/shortlisted at. 

[unicornsarereal]

I was at a conference this weekend and talked with some phd kids at a few schools about what advice they had. The first thing they all said was FUNDING. Go where the money is, they said. Inquire if the stipends increase as you get further along the program/with inflation.

One person said they wish they had other people in their field in their cohort—something which I found super valuable for my masters.

The other thing was faculty engagement, for which they said to ask current students about.

This is all very repetitive, but hearing these from current students from various schools hammers in what we need to be thinking about!

Personally, I'm thinking a lot about money, as one place is offering me a substantial amount more. It's throwing me off!

[urbanfarmer]

Halfway through the first year of my PhD, and thought I'd throw in a few other things. I know y'all are thinking about the basics like funding and placement records, but I think people often overlook the "life" part of being in a PhD. It's a long haul, and so thinking about what is likely to make you relatively happy and stable during that time is just as important (or maybe more) than some perks like extra conference funding:

1. Union activity. Is there a grad student union? How active is it? What is the administration's relation to the union? (For instance, if anyone is considering UIUC this year, I'd do a quick google search and see what's going on there right now... it's a nasty fight!)

2. How much do "life" factors matter to you? Some people are totally happy putting their head down and just working, but how much do you want to be able to do outside of school? Will the location/price of living allow this? (For instance, when I was applying, a mentor gave the illustration that even though someplace like Columbia will offer a generous stipend, it still isn't much to live on in NY. A stipend at UVa, though smaller on paper, would allow you to have your own place, etc. If you don't want to do much in NY beyond work, that's fine. If you want to be able to go out to dinner with friends sometimes and not stress about it, or take a vacation now and then, probably not.)

3. How friendly are the other grad students? Is sociability a big factor for you? Do the students seem competitive, or constructive? How often to faculty and students spend time together less formally?

4. What's the insurance package like? Do you have health concerns of any kind that might be impacted by this? I know at least two students in my program who've had to switch off the provided insurance because medicines they needed weren't covered. With the state of the ACA always up in the air, this is more important than ever!

5. Is there a lot of hands-on guidance? Most PhD students I know, in a wide variety of programs, wish their programs gave more structure or guidelines about when to do what. 

 

Hope this stuff might help some of you! "Feel" is definitely important, and money is incredibly important, but don't forget that you have to be a person, too! Depression and burnout rates amongst grad students are incredibly high; staying balanced outside of school is so important for preventing this!

[CanadianEnglish]

So glad this thread exists! Has helped a lot! 

I’m currently only applying to MA programs, as I didn’t think I was quite ready to jump into a straight PhD program (or good enough for that matter). I have 2 really great offers so far, Iowa State and N.C. State, and I’m having a tough time deciding (also pretty sure i will get rejected from the other schools I haven’t heard from yet). All the signs point to Iowa State in terms of location, funding, department support, overall good vibes etc. BUT there’s no one in the faculty that specializes in what I’m interested in. I’m postocolonial, and although there’s profs who dabble in power literature, environmental literature, racial theory etc, there’s no poco prof like there was at my BA. So for MA programs, is it completely necessary to have a professor who has the same, or very similar interest to yours?  That’s mostly the reason that’s holding me back to commit to anything right now

[Warelin]

16 minutes ago, canadianchart said:

So glad this thread exists! Has helped a lot! 

I’m currently only applying to MA programs, as I didn’t think I was quite ready to jump into a straight PhD program (or good enough for that matter). I have 2 really great offers so far, Iowa State and N.C. State, and I’m having a tough time deciding (also pretty sure i will get rejected from the other schools I haven’t heard from yet). All the signs point to Iowa State in terms of location, funding, department support, overall good vibes etc. BUT there’s no one in the faculty that specializes in what I’m interested in. I’m postocolonial, and although there’s profs who dabble in power literature, environmental literature, racial theory etc, there’s no poco prof like there was at my BA. So for MA programs, is it completely necessary to have a professor who has the same, or very similar interest to yours?  That’s mostly the reason that’s holding me back to commit to anything right now

Speaking as someone who has done an MA, I don't think it is important to have professors with similar interests. The MA isn't really a specialization degree. I got into rhetoric programs without having a professor who had any interest in rhetoric and composition. I got into programs with a focus on other specializations despite only having one class in them. Doing well and forming connections with the professors are what is important in the MA. A strong writing sample and SOP are also important later on, but being immersed in the field is equally as important. I think being in a place that you feel comfortable in and don't have to worry about finances will allow you to produce the best work possible.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Warelin

[midwest-ford]

20 minutes ago, Warelin said:

Speaking as someone who has done an MA, I don't think it is important to have professors with similar interests. The MA isn't really a specialization degree. I got into rhetoric programs without having a professor who had any interest in rhetoric and composition. I got into programs with a focus on other specializations despite only having one class in them. Doing well and forming connections with the professors are what is important in the MA. A strong writing sample and SOP are also important later on, but being immersed in the field is equally as important. I think being in a place that you feel comfortable in and don't have to worry about finances will allow you to produce the best work possible.

@canadianchart, I agree with this. My MA is at a school that doesn't even offer a single rhet/comp class, but I got into several rhet/comp PhD programs because my faculty supported my interests. They helped me with LORs, publications and presentations in other areas, and with opportunities like working in the writing center, etc, and I did an independent study in my area to help get some official looking courses on my transcripts. So if they don't have the exact interests as you, you can still make it work. Personally, I'd look more at the opportunities you'll have and how supportive they seem to be  

Edited February 19, 2018 by midwest-ford

[bumbleblu]

Should I put any kind of importance on the type/name of the degree (e.g. PhD in English vs PhD in Rhet/Comp)? I feel like at some point in time I was told that when it comes to the job market, it can be easier to get hired if you have a degree in rhet/comp, or in English rather than an interdisciplinary degree. Is there any truth in that at all? Obviously there are about a hundred other factors that go into getting a job, and the things you do in a program is more important than what a piece of paper says, but I am still curious. 

[bpilgrim89]

6 hours ago, bumbleblu said:

Should I put any kind of importance on the type/name of the degree (e.g. PhD in English vs PhD in Rhet/Comp)? I feel like at some point in time I was told that when it comes to the job market, it can be easier to get hired if you have a degree in rhet/comp, or in English rather than an interdisciplinary degree. Is there any truth in that at all? Obviously there are about a hundred other factors that go into getting a job, and the things you do in a program is more important than what a piece of paper says, but I am still curious. 

I think what matters more is post-graduate outcome. How does the department track what happens to its students once they graduate? If they track placement (and placement matters to you), will they give you numbers/names of institutions? How about the students who do not go on to teach at the university-level? What do they do, and how do they measure the success of what happens to their students? Most departments will at the very least have a "spotlight" section where star candidates are highlighted, but that is more for marketing. How a department follows post-graduate outcomes will show you whether the department cares about what happens to you after you graduate and how much help they will provide in finding you somewhere to go.