Johns Hopkins SAIS 2020

[AONomad]

1 hour ago, tacos95 said:

I got aid reconsideration results (in an email from financial aid like the first round) late this afternoon. It felt like "finally," but they said they would reply by 4/17, so it really wasn't too bad of a wait and considerate of them to provide the decision in time for the numerous 4/15 deadlines.

Went from $27k/year to $42k/year, so I'm super stoked. As I mentioned before, I had a substantial fellowship offer from Mercatus/GMU, so I think that helped move me along, despite the programs being pretty different. Anyway, it looks like they really are bumping some up, so good luck!

Whoaaaa that's awesome congrats

[sare123]

I just heard back on my aid reconsideration too! Went up by $10,000 total ($5,000 per year) so not bad. I asked for more but it's relatively close and certainly an improvement, so I'm happy. Good luck to everyone else!!

[thediesel]

I committed to the SAIS-Tsinghua program this morning. Super excited for what’s to come!

[AONomad]

20 minutes ago, thediesel said:

I committed to the SAIS-Tsinghua program this morning. Super excited for what’s to come!

Nice! I ended up deciding to go to the HNC after all. Here's to hoping they open those borders back up and the 14 day quarantine at travelers' expense becomes unnecessary lol. 

[thediesel]

4 hours ago, AONomad said:

Nice! I ended up deciding to go to the HNC after all. Here's to hoping they open those borders back up and the 14 day quarantine at travelers' expense becomes unnecessary lol. 

Hope so too. Don’t want to call Victoria at the last minute to request a reversal of the program. I am NOT paying to quarantine myself. 

[AONomad]

1 hour ago, thediesel said:

Hope so too. Don’t want to call Victoria at the last minute to request a reversal of the program. I am NOT paying to quarantine myself. 

Not sure how it is for the Tsinghua program but for HNC we're allowed to defer for either 1 semester or 1 year at any point during summer regardless of what the prognosis for Fall semester is.

[KIMAMS]

I declined. I don't see any point to get debt and go to any US school at this time (regarding the policy degree) while can't expect much salary after the graduation. Good luck everyone on your endeavors!! 

[affairsindisorder]

Anyone know what the admit rates are for the mid career programs like MAGP or MIPP? Increasing feeling like these classes will be online in the fall the more I speak to people in all sorts of undergrad/grad programs which really takes away from some of the most important aspects of the programs which are in-person and really hard to replicate online. 

I also have yet to speak to anyone on here (not sure if that's because it's a self selecting group of already competitive people who like to post on here) that has gotten rejected/waitlisted to the mid-career programs and seeing for the incoming profile an average GPA of 3.22 with one person who I spoke to who was admitted who didn't even take the GRE. 

[bness2002]

On 4/23/2020 at 3:58 PM, affairsindisorder said:

Anyone know what the admit rates are for the mid career programs like MAGP or MIPP? Increasing feeling like these classes will be online in the fall the more I speak to people in all sorts of undergrad/grad programs which really takes away from some of the most important aspects of the programs which are in-person and really hard to replicate online. 

I also have yet to speak to anyone on here (not sure if that's because it's a self selecting group of already competitive people who like to post on here) that has gotten rejected/waitlisted to the mid-career programs and seeing for the incoming profile an average GPA of 3.22 with one person who I spoke to who was admitted who didn't even take the GRE. 

I am a current MAGP student for Cohort 5. Did you end up applying ? So far our classes this spring and part of the summer are online, per guidance given from JHU main campus. We hope to be in person again by the middle of this summer. I prefer the in person classes too. Hope to meet you in person eventually. If I can answer any questions about the program, please let me know. Feel free to private IM me. 

[tacos95]

I see people in Gov Affairs forum quite frequently offering the likely recession as a reason to reconsider attending grad school/taking out loans/foregoing income. I have a couple thoughts on this, and since I don't want to clog the feed with a new thread and since I'm going to SAIS, I thought I'd throw them out here and see what comes back. 

So lots of us are Econ-oriented right? SAIS obviously has the Econ focus, and most MPP programs are economics-lite/applied, watered-down economics. So we should all be familiar with opportunity cost -- the concept that by making a given choice on something, other options are missed, which must be considered as costs of making a decision. So, in a recession, with fewer job opportunities and lower chances for raises, won't we who attend school be missing out on less? i.e. if I'm in school while the economy is booty, won't I only be missing a party a no one is enjoying anyway? Even if pay cuts don't happen during the presumed recession, raises and promotions are less likely in a recession for sure. So the opportunity cost of attending grad school is lower than normal, not higher. Of course that's why everyone on here is saying applications will be way up next year -- smart people will be in jobs without prospects for growth or without jobs at all -- yet the same folks who recognize that apps will be up fail to apply to their thinking why apps will be up, namely because the labor market isn't worth staying in, that is, the cost of dipping out of the labor market is lower than during a boom.

Of course, there's the case that it's a crucial time to be in the workforce, to gain experience, network, credibility etc. I suppose that's only marginally more true than it always is though.

The other argument is that our cohort will be graduating into a crap market. Therefore, foregone income and loans accrued during grad school will hurt all the more. Maybe I'm being pollyannaish, but most recessions are well under 2 years, and I doubt this is going to be as catastrophic as the Great Depression (my intuition is that most of this is a pause in the economy, not an actual contraction or loss of underlying value, but I could definitely be very wrong about that). So Summer 2022 could be just the right time to enter the economy. Sure, the prospect for internships during school will probably be lower than normal. That's a bit worrying, but not overwhelming to me. I'll still have a shiny new MA at the end.

If I'm right, our application cycle could be construed as the perfect time: right now the economy is bad, and though everyone else knows it now, the admissions process is over, so we get the opportunity to tool up when we'd likely not be having a great experience in the labor market. And we didn't have to face as stiff of competition (no offense to everyone here, including me) as there will be during next year's admissions cycle.

I get the risk aversion. I'm fortunate enough to have a wonderful wife who can cover living expenses while I'm in school, and I got pretty good funding, so we won't have to take on any debt.

I'm kind of just spitballing, and maybe rationalizing my choice to start at SAIS, but I'd be interested what folks here think, particularly you regular commenters. For those of you wringing your hands about the decision, maybe my rationale, flawed or not, can give you some peace of mind, and just don't read responses.

[Anthony Lee]

52 minutes ago, tacos95 said:

I see people in Gov Affairs forum quite frequently offering the likely recession as a reason to reconsider attending grad school/taking out loans/foregoing income. I have a couple thoughts on this, and since I don't want to clog the feed with a new thread and since I'm going to SAIS, I thought I'd throw them out here and see what comes back. 

So lots of us are Econ-oriented right? SAIS obviously has the Econ focus, and most MPP programs are economics-lite/applied, watered-down economics. So we should all be familiar with opportunity cost -- the concept that by making a given choice on something, other options are missed, which must be considered as costs of making a decision. So, in a recession, with fewer job opportunities and lower chances for raises, won't we who attend school be missing out on less? i.e. if I'm in school while the economy is booty, won't I only be missing a party a no one is enjoying anyway? Even if pay cuts don't happen during the presumed recession, raises and promotions are less likely in a recession for sure. So the opportunity cost of attending grad school is lower than normal, not higher. Of course that's why everyone on here is saying applications will be way up next year -- smart people will be in jobs without prospects for growth or without jobs at all -- yet the same folks who recognize that apps will be up fail to apply to their thinking why apps will be up, namely because the labor market isn't worth staying in, that is, the cost of dipping out of the labor market is lower than during a boom.

Of course, there's the case that it's a crucial time to be in the workforce, to gain experience, network, credibility etc. I suppose that's only marginally more true than it always is though.

The other argument is that our cohort will be graduating into a crap market. Therefore, foregone income and loans accrued during grad school will hurt all the more. Maybe I'm being pollyannaish, but most recessions are well under 2 years, and I doubt this is going to be as catastrophic as the Great Depression (my intuition is that most of this is a pause in the economy, not an actual contraction or loss of underlying value, but I could definitely be very wrong about that). So Summer 2022 could be just the right time to enter the economy. Sure, the prospect for internships during school will probably be lower than normal. That's a bit worrying, but not overwhelming to me. I'll still have a shiny new MA at the end.

If I'm right, our application cycle could be construed as the perfect time: right now the economy is bad, and though everyone else knows it now, the admissions process is over, so we get the opportunity to tool up when we'd likely not be having a great experience in the labor market. And we didn't have to face as stiff of competition (no offense to everyone here, including me) as there will be during next year's admissions cycle.

I get the risk aversion. I'm fortunate enough to have a wonderful wife who can cover living expenses while I'm in school, and I got pretty good funding, so we won't have to take on any debt.

I'm kind of just spitballing, and maybe rationalizing my choice to start at SAIS, but I'd be interested what folks here think, particularly you regular commenters. For those of you wringing your hands about the decision, maybe my rationale, flawed or not, can give you some peace of mind, and just don't read responses.

I think taking out hefty loans can be risky right now, given that the economic recovery is not guaranteed, so you are forgoing income AND taking a risk that you will be able to find a job with your new MA. Your argument is plausible but it rests on whether the ROI for the MA is indeed as desirable as you put it to be, given that the world after this pandemic will be much changed and the immediate relevance / recruitability of the degree cannot be ascertained (imagine a curriculum that teaches international trade in particular ways when trade is going to be fundamentally reconfigured), not to mention the unpredictability and fluidity of today's world such that an improved job market in 2022 summer is not guaranteed - many scientists and experts are predicting that the pandemic will wear off only in 2022 , so you might be looking at cycles of recessions and retrenchments, and uptick in certain industries (healthcare etc) over others (consulting - which is a common destination for SAIS MA grads). So after considering all of this, would one forego possible income (even if lowered income AND take a hefty loan?) - that's something only the individual can answer....

People are already making projections that this will not be a pause, but will be a contraction almost as comparable as the Great Depression:
https://www.ft.com/content/e626cc6f-5aa9-4dae-b6a0-175b92aa126d

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/greater-depression-covid19-headwinds-by-nouriel-roubini-2020-04?f

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Anthony Lee

[Mppirgradschool]

58 minutes ago, tacos95 said:

I see people in Gov Affairs forum quite frequently offering the likely recession as a reason to reconsider attending grad school/taking out loans/foregoing income. I have a couple thoughts on this, and since I don't want to clog the feed with a new thread and since I'm going to SAIS, I thought I'd throw them out here and see what comes back. 

So lots of us are Econ-oriented right? SAIS obviously has the Econ focus, and most MPP programs are economics-lite/applied, watered-down economics. So we should all be familiar with opportunity cost -- the concept that by making a given choice on something, other options are missed, which must be considered as costs of making a decision. So, in a recession, with fewer job opportunities and lower chances for raises, won't we who attend school be missing out on less? i.e. if I'm in school while the economy is booty, won't I only be missing a party a no one is enjoying anyway? Even if pay cuts don't happen during the presumed recession, raises and promotions are less likely in a recession for sure. So the opportunity cost of attending grad school is lower than normal, not higher. Of course that's why everyone on here is saying applications will be way up next year -- smart people will be in jobs without prospects for growth or without jobs at all -- yet the same folks who recognize that apps will be up fail to apply to their thinking why apps will be up, namely because the labor market isn't worth staying in, that is, the cost of dipping out of the labor market is lower than during a boom.

Of course, there's the case that it's a crucial time to be in the workforce, to gain experience, network, credibility etc. I suppose that's only marginally more true than it always is though.

The other argument is that our cohort will be graduating into a crap market. Therefore, foregone income and loans accrued during grad school will hurt all the more. Maybe I'm being pollyannaish, but most recessions are well under 2 years, and I doubt this is going to be as catastrophic as the Great Depression (my intuition is that most of this is a pause in the economy, not an actual contraction or loss of underlying value, but I could definitely be very wrong about that). So Summer 2022 could be just the right time to enter the economy. Sure, the prospect for internships during school will probably be lower than normal. That's a bit worrying, but not overwhelming to me. I'll still have a shiny new MA at the end.

If I'm right, our application cycle could be construed as the perfect time: right now the economy is bad, and though everyone else knows it now, the admissions process is over, so we get the opportunity to tool up when we'd likely not be having a great experience in the labor market. And we didn't have to face as stiff of competition (no offense to everyone here, including me) as there will be during next year's admissions cycle.

I get the risk aversion. I'm fortunate enough to have a wonderful wife who can cover living expenses while I'm in school, and I got pretty good funding, so we won't have to take on any debt.

I'm kind of just spitballing, and maybe rationalizing my choice to start at SAIS, but I'd be interested what folks here think, particularly you regular commenters. For those of you wringing your hands about the decision, maybe my rationale, flawed or not, can give you some peace of mind, and just don't read responses.

If you have great funding, then yes, you could you make a case for entering a potentially adverse job market (if you've recently been laid off, for example) -- just make sure to *really* think it through.

What people are overlooking, is the fact that taking out $30-40k in loans vs taking out $160k+ is an *entire* different ballgame. Taking out $160K+ in loans means your loan's monthly payment could roughly equal the same as the rent cost of a studio apartment in a major U.S. city.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Mppirgradschool

[tacos95]

1 hour ago, Anthony Lee said:

Your argument is plausible but it rests on whether the ROI for the MA is indeed as desirable as you put it to be, given that the world after this pandemic will be much changed and the immediate relevance / recruitability of the degree cannot be ascertained (imagine a curriculum that teaches international trade in particular ways when trade is going to be fundamentally reconfigured), not to mention the unpredictability and fluidity of today's world such that an improved job market in 2022 summer is not guaranteed - many scientists and experts are predicting that the pandemic will wear off only in 2022 , so you might be looking at cycles of recessions and retrenchments, and uptick in certain industries (healthcare etc) over others (consulting - which is a common destination for SAIS MA grads).

I very much doubt a reconfiguration in trade would reduce demand for people who have studied international trade. Sure, the dynamics would be different, but all the more reason for there to be more technocrats weighing the costs and benefits of trade structures, right? If, for example, the US halts trade with China, do you think there will be less analysis and commentary on trade policy? Of course not.

In the case of cycles of pandemic, it is unlikely that folks with graduate degrees would fare worse than those without. That doesn't mean a graduate degree is worth an unlimited amount, but a fluctuating economy doesn't eliminate the relative employability of the more highly educated.

It's also exceedingly predictable that some are hailing near apocalyptic consequences of this virus. They make their livings on that. Many expect a treatment and/or vaccine within a year or two. And even absent a treatment, it seems quite likely that the world would develop ways to coexist with the virus rather than remaining home until 2022. So a recovery delayed until 2022 feels extreme. But I grant that nothing is certain.

1 hour ago, Mppirgradschool said:

What people are overlooking, is the fact that taking out $30-40k in loans vs taking out $160k+ is an *entire* different ballgame.

Couldn't agree more. I wouldn't take out more than $40k in a booming economy. Our decadent and indulgent culture, along with romance of being degreed, causes many people to incur costs they shouldn't and cannot take on. Particularly among idealistic, overweening policy types with a savior complex, who too readily apply MMT to their personal lives.

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, Mppirgradschool said:

If you have great funding, then yes, you could you make a case for entering a potentially adverse job market (if you've recently been laid off, for example) -- just make sure to *really* think it through.

What people are overlooking, is the fact that taking out $30-40k in loans vs taking out $160k+ is an *entire* different ballgame. Taking out $160K+ in loans means your loan's monthly payment could roughly equal the same as the rent cost of a studio apartment in a major U.S. city.

 

 

Here is the deal -->  at anytime, no matter how good or how bad the economy is, there are skills in demand and skills simply out of demand. Even right now, during the time of corona, I still see employers trying to fill jobs that they can't find enough qualified people for. For example the hot thing of the moment is data scientists. I know people who gone to MPP/IR programs who had the foresight to realize their interest in XYZ dead language as not being viable and and got smart on learned technical skills (either on their own, via classes,  via projects, or via internships) and translated that to awesome jobs, in the recent downtown.

So bottom line... your GPA means nothing (unless you are trying to go to PhD later on and your's is good enough to graduate). Get the skills and experiences you need to be viable in the job market during grad school. 

One of those most interesting things I once saw was when I was in a room where our professor went around and asked people what our thesis interests were. I felt like roughly half the people mentioned something about gender studies of women in a policy lens. Look, I have been in women's affinity groups since high school and taught classes about gender studies once, so I myself appreciate the importance of gender studies. However 1. there is only so much gender policy career options that are and 2. there was a lot of focus on an important area but there wasn't that much substance about using the thesis an opportunity to package technical skill competency. 

I think this speaks to itself.

Edited May 2, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[tacos95]

Good news for SAIS yesterday!

"I am writing to let you to know that we are planning for a partial physical reopening at all three SAIS campuses this fall. Our intention is for all classes to be available in-person as well as virtually for those who do not wish or are unable to come to campus."