Fall 2021 Clinical & Counseling PhD/PsyD

[Desperate13]

3 minutes ago, PyschMama said:

Of course, totally understand! I’m so sorry. I feel you. It was my dream program and top choice and I was so excited to apply this year and was actually hoping it would be a good year (no idea what made me think that....) 

Hey, you never know!!! This is my second time applying to it, so I'm right there with you. It's not over until it's over. And as much as I hate everyone who has been telling me this for the past few weeks, there's always next year. (I just really do hope it's this year - for all of us.)

[Psy-aye-aye]

7 minutes ago, Desperate13 said:

 

Unfortunately, they did not mention anything about when we might hear back. I could ask, but I do not want to be too much of a bother. I'm not entirely certain about their level of involvement in the process or if this is just information that was passed around in the department. I know this info sucks, but it at least motivated me to apply for some jobs since the chances are so slim and Rutgers was my last hope.

No problem, thanks for the info you do have! I think a lot of us will be mourning Rutgers this year. I got into a PsyD that’s more expensive and doesn’t have the same reputation as Rutgers, and I’m questioning whether I should go or wait and reapply /again/ next year. 

[Desperate13]

2 minutes ago, Psy-aye-aye said:

No problem, thanks for the info you do have! I think a lot of us will be mourning Rutgers this year. I got into a PsyD that’s more expensive and doesn’t have the same reputation as Rutgers, and I’m questioning whether I should go or wait and reapply /again/ next year. 

Yeah, I applied to mostly PhDs and only Rutgers PsyD because I was worried about money, so I get you. But now I'm questioning if I even really do want to do research. So now I'm off to find more clinical experience... And study my butt off for the GREs again.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Desperate13

[Psy-aye-aye]

Just now, Desperate13 said:

Yeah, I applied to mostly PhDs and only Rutgers PsyD because I was worried about money, so I get you. But now I'm questioning if I even really do want to do research. So now I'm off to find more clinical experience... And study my butt off for the GREs again.

I applied to mostly PhDs last year because of the concern about debt, but I’m not a big fan of research and I know the PsyD is where I fit best. Clinical Psych PhDs have lower acceptance rates than med school, so if your heart isn’t 1000% in it I don’t think applying is worth the pain. Also, I want to focus on clinical training more than any PhD I’ve found. That’s just my 2¢ though! You can DM me for my thoughts if you want.

[PsyDuck90]

3 minutes ago, Psy-aye-aye said:

No problem, thanks for the info you do have! I think a lot of us will be mourning Rutgers this year. I got into a PsyD that’s more expensive and doesn’t have the same reputation as Rutgers, and I’m questioning whether I should go or wait and reapply /again/ next year. 

If your signature is accurate, I would honestly try again next year. Alliant has a very poor reputation as a diploma mill (if a school is for profit, it's a corporation intent on making money, not a place of higher learning). They're APA-accredited match rates, EPPP pass rates, cohort sizes (83 new students in 2018-2019?! That's literally more people than my entire PsyD program, faculty included.), and licensure rates are pretty big red flags. It's a PsyD, if only 75% of graduates are licensed.....what else are they doing? Based on the EPPP pass rates and low APA-accredited internship match rates, my guess is that they aren't able to get licensed, and are saddled with crazy amounts of debt to boot. 

[K31D1Psych]

On 1/15/2021 at 3:58 PM, K31D1Psych said:

 

 

I agree the GRE is useless... I think it needs to really be brought to light.

I was almost down 1k just trying to take the GRE, travel for it, get materials, and get an assessment from various doctors to get the disability accommodations. My current documentation through disability services wasn't enough. On top of that, they do not let disabled students register until after the forms are approved for accommodations, which can take even more months. So the whole process for me took almost 8 months, and by that point the registration slots were almost all filled. There was only 1 slot left to take the GRE in time for program deadlines-- I had to travel 2 hours away for the only availability at 7 in the morning. It was the only slot open for the next few months. There's another catch: the forms have to be from within a 12 month period, so by the time the process was done and the test could be scheduled, the 12 month period was almost up. So I'd have to redo the assessments again.

I pulled an all nighter because I had to leave me house by like 4 AM, hardly functioned, and didn't receive my full disability accommodations. ETS skimps on accommodations and calls certain accommodations "standard" to accelerate the review process. Of course it's their pre-determined standard and not my standard from what my doctor determines. I would have missed the program deadlines otherwise because anything more than their "standard" will take longer to review, which is what I qualified for. If anything more than their "standard" is rejected, then you have to redo the process all over again. I was forced to not take the risk and opt for half of the accommodations I've been getting in school for 5+ years because everything took so long, despite me starting the process in the early spring. I most likely would have been accepted for the full if the process wasn't so long. It gets worse and worse the more I describe what happened. And... I was sick during it. I had to stop in the middle to take an antibiotic. ? I had a 3 year long infection that wouldn't go away, so I was very sick. To think I could go into even more examples of how the GRE is nothing but a useless created barrier.

Mind you, I have a 4.0 GPA, 3+ years research, 9 scholarships, a research grant, 3 years teaching college level, and a ton of other things I don't want to go into. My GRE verbal and quant was dreadful. All of this and you look at one day? 

I just think about all the people who have these dreams and worked so hard and long only to face unfair barriers that could get them automatically thrown in a pile where they aren't even considered, and it breaks my heart. It has clear social class, gender, disability, and ethnicity biases. Many programs are indeed discussing this year as a "trial" to see if it will remain optional. We will see how seriously they take their "diversity" claims. They claim they support diversity then weed out more disabled and BIPOC students this way than they seem to care. People may try to claim I am an "outlier" because I am such a strong applicant and did so bad. First, does that mean it's okay to keep doing this knowing it impacts certain oppressed or underrepresented groups because "oh it's just a few people!"?? Second, it is less of an "outlier" problem and more that it literally has processes built in that weeds out certain types of people based on money, disability, accommodations, the set up, etc. regardless of qualifications. It's not "just a few" at all.

The fact that they are suddenly doing something about it during a pandemic and that it took this long is also frustrating. It's like they suddenly cared the moment everyone else had difficulty taking it but didn't when certain groups have always faced barriers like this. If anyone from a program is reading this who can take a stand for underrepresented and oppressed groups, do it. 

The problem is the GRE does not just stop people from getting an interview. Requiring it stops many qualified people from even applying because of everything I described here, and there are biases "for" it. Certain "Diversity" initiatives seem very performative and do not necessarily offset the barriers created to weed out certain people. It also won't give me my 1k back that I hardly even had and that many people don't have. And quite frankly, it is a privledge to be on the listening end (well, hopefully they're listening) instead of on the experiencing end like disabled and BIPOC, which is another reason I find some people may have a hard time admitting they need to do something about it. It just didn't impact them this way, and they think there is always a simple solution around it, that it is based off of individualistic hard work, etc. And then these are sometimes the same people making the decisions about the GRE or "chiming in" on oppressed people's experiences. It is great to see programs use this as a trial year for eliminating the GRE or making it optional. Some programs already committed to this, and I anticipate it increasing as people hopefully listen to us.

Regarding application fee waivers, I am under the impression some schools actually limit the number of fee waivers they provide too-- or so they say. Two of the 8 schools I applied to actually did not even have it as an option. It helps, but it won't always cut it, and there are loopholes. Also, if it helps anyone, most people in my circle emphasized GPA for grad school in a more realistic way. It's not "all that" but there are often program cut offs, it's certainly a compliment, and a low one will not do anyone any favors either. If it appears someone does not understand their psych coursework or does not care, it will not look good. Research experience and fit of course is key and can be used to show strengths and understanding.

I do also want to add that I know some people who have spoken up to say that the GRE actually helped remove a barrier they dealt with, such as a GPA that was pulled a little lower than they wanted because of an off semester or two, or coming from a smaller area (e.g., Caribbean) with less research areas. They said the GRE provided them an opportunity to try to make up for some things. I hear and recognize these people too. The only solution I can think of right now to include all of these scenarios would be to make it optional for some folks for which it is a barrier, as well as to stop maintaining a bias strictly in favor for it, but to rather use it to allow some people to have a more holistic application to "make up" for some things, as some programs are committing to. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by K31D1Psych

[Psy-aye-aye]

6 minutes ago, PsyDuck90 said:

If your signature is accurate, I would honestly try again next year. Alliant has a very poor reputation as a diploma mill (if a school is for profit, it's a corporation intent on making money, not a place of higher learning). They're APA-accredited match rates, EPPP pass rates, cohort sizes (83 new students in 2018-2019?! That's literally more people than my entire PsyD program, faculty included.), and licensure rates are pretty big red flags. It's a PsyD, if only 75% of graduates are licensed.....what else are they doing? Based on the EPPP pass rates and low APA-accredited internship match rates, my guess is that they aren't able to get licensed, and are saddled with crazy amounts of debt to boot. 
 

 
 

I have asked about these things, and Alliant has solid responses for most of them. Alliant’s students still have to work their butts off to get in and complete the program, and they get good clinical training. I’m open to input from other applicants, but coming from a current PsyD student your words kind of just feel like you think your program is superior, which it very well might be, but that’s not the attitude I’m looking for in someone I’m taking advice from. 

Sorry if there’s weird formatting, my phone is displaying this text box weirdly. 

[Psy-aye-aye]

14 minutes ago, PsyDuck90 said:

If your signature is accurate, I would honestly try again next year. Alliant has a very poor reputation as a diploma mill (if a school is for profit, it's a corporation intent on making money, not a place of higher learning). They're APA-accredited match rates, EPPP pass rates, cohort sizes (83 new students in 2018-2019?! That's literally more people than my entire PsyD program, faculty included.), and licensure rates are pretty big red flags. It's a PsyD, if only 75% of graduates are licensed.....what else are they doing? Based on the EPPP pass rates and low APA-accredited internship match rates, my guess is that they aren't able to get licensed, and are saddled with crazy amounts of debt to boot. 

I have asked about these things, and Alliant has solid responses for most of them. Alliant’s students still have to work their butts off to get in and complete the program, and they get good clinical training. I’m open to input from other applicants, but coming from a current PsyD student your words kind of just feel like you think your program is superior, which it very well might be, but that’s not the attitude I’m looking for in someone I’m taking advice from. 

Sorry if there’s weird formatting, my phone isdisplaying this text box weirdly. 

[Coffee_and_Psychology96]

To the poster in the results who mentioned that a POI from Miami (OH) may be leaving in the fall, would you mind sharing POI's initials (on here or direct message)? I don't think it's mine but I'm curious!

[clinical09878]

also really interested!

[clinical09878]

Just now, Coffee_and_Psychology96 said:

To the poster in the results who mentioned that a POI from Miami (OH) may be leaving in the fall, would you mind sharing POI's initials (on here or direct message)? I don't think it's mine but I'm curious!

also interested in knowing!

[PsyDuck90]

31 minutes ago, Psy-aye-aye said:

I have asked about these things, and Alliant has solid responses for most of them. Alliant’s students still have to work their butts off to get in and complete the program, and they get good clinical training. I’m open to input from other applicants, but coming from a current PsyD student your words kind of just feel like you think your program is superior, which it very well might be, but that’s not the attitude I’m looking for in someone I’m taking advice from. 

Sorry if there’s weird formatting, my phone isdisplaying this text box weirdly. 

I'm sorry if my comment came off as me saying the program I attend is superior. That was not my intention. I know people who have gone to Alliant (and Argosy) that have been burned. Heck, several former Argosy students now attend my program after those schools shut down. I even know some great clinicians who have graduated from Alliants/Argosys, and they typically attribute their success to their own tenacity rather than the standard training they received at the program. Granted these are just a few examples, but these people have often reported they did not feel supported by their program and are successful despite the program rather than in part due to the program. The reason I brought up the cohort size is because in a program that large, it's hard to get the individualized attention that is necessary at the graduate level to guide professional development. The faculty are only able to give x number of hours to student because there are only 24 hours in a day. The greater number of students, the less time the faculty have to give each student..

Also, those metrics are quantitative data (match rates, EPPP pass rates, and licensure rates). APA requires the reporting of many of these metrics so that people can quantitatively evaluate programs on equal data points. At the end of the day, Alliant has a very strong financial reason to get students through the door. It is in their best interest as a for profit institution, so yes, they pour a lot of money into marketing and coming up with good sounding reasons to address the poor outcome measures. However, if there is a consistent pattern of under-performance compared to the vast majority of other programs, then that is indicative of a programmatic issue and not just just the occasional outlier. Outliers don't account for approximately 40% of people not passing the EPPP and therefore being ineligible for licensure at that time.

At the end of the day, do what is best for you. I have no skin in the game. I just wanted to point out the concerning metrics that have left a significant number of people in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for a career that doesn't financially justify that kind of debt load. 

[Psy-aye-aye]

2 minutes ago, PsyDuck90 said:

I'm sorry if my comment came off as me saying the program I attend is superior. That was not my intention. I know people who have gone to Alliant (and Argosy) that have been burned. Heck, several former Argosy students now attend my program after those schools shut down. I even know some great clinicians who have graduated from Alliants/Argosys, and they typically attribute their success to their own tenacity rather than the standard training they received at the program. Granted these are just a few examples, but these people have often reported they did not feel supported by their program and are successful despite the program rather than in part due to the program. The reason I brought up the cohort size is because in a program that large, it's hard to get the individualized attention that is necessary at the graduate level to guide professional development. The faculty are only able to give x number of hours to student because there are only 24 hours in a day. The greater number of students, the less time the faculty have to give each student..

Also, those metrics are quantitative data (match rates, EPPP pass rates, and licensure rates). APA requires the reporting of many of these metrics so that people can quantitatively evaluate programs on equal data points. At the end of the day, Alliant has a very strong financial reason to get students through the door. It is in their best interest as a for profit institution, so yes, they pour a lot of money into marketing and coming up with good sounding reasons to address the poor outcome measures. However, if there is a consistent pattern of under-performance compared to the vast majority of other programs, then that is indicative of a programmatic issue and not just just the occasional outlier. Outliers don't account for approximately 40% of people not passing the EPPP and therefore being ineligible for licensure at that time.

At the end of the day, do what is best for you. I have no skin in the game. I just wanted to point out the concerning metrics that have left a significant number of people in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for a career that doesn't financially justify that kind of debt load. 

The University of California system treats its students like each one is a dollar value instead of a person, but it is greatly respected as an institution of higher learning. I definitely have complaints about my experience, but the UCs are a money-making machine for their execs too and they have a fine reputation as schools. That’s just my response to your statement that if a school is for profit, it’s a corporation intent on making money not an institute of learning. 
 

Each Alliant program has slightly different cohort sizes, different faculty, etc. The one I was accepted to has great faculty and explained that the reason for their low licensure rate is that many alumni get licensed in the months following reporting to the APA. The stat is actually much higher, but I don’t remember it exactly. I know that there are downsides to attending a larger program, especially a chain/school of professional psychology like Alliant. That being said, I am so ready to start my doctorate, and I just don’t know if I want to put myself through another year of not being in grad school just to reapply and potentially still not get into a dream program. 

[denverems]

DU PsyD applicants: check emails pronto. I received an interview invite this evening after my initial post (generic email providing dates and structure). The interviews will be on Zoom, which I have to admit I am dreading. To those who have had Microsoft Teams or Zoom interviews; group or individual, any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[PositiveRegards]

I saw someone post on the results page about an email from UMASS Boston confirming applications being forwarded for review. I haven't received this email and wondered how many people have? I had a nightmare trying to get international admissions to upload my international degree transcripts and my application status says incomplete despite being told they were uploaded. If my application was never reviewed....? 

[JPfall2021applicant]

2 hours ago, PositiveRegards said:

I saw someone post on the results page about an email from UMASS Boston confirming applications being forwarded for review. I haven't received this email and wondered how many people have? I had a nightmare trying to get international admissions to upload my international degree transcripts and my application status says incomplete despite being told they were uploaded. If my application was never reviewed....? 

I think the system they use is really poor! I also have an "incomplete" on my application status, despite uploading my transcripts. I then had to email them a few weeks ago because they couldn't fully access the website. I doubt that it would effect either of our chances of getting reviewed!

 

[natb96]

2 minutes ago, JPfall2021applicant said:

I think the system they use is really poor! I also have an "incomplete" on my application status, despite uploading my transcripts. I then had to email them a few weeks ago because they couldn't fully access the website. I doubt that it would effect either of our chances of getting reviewed!

 

Did your status ever change to “complete”? I have had the same issue and their responses on email have been...not helpful. My transcript FINALLY updated yesterday but the GPA summary/GRE scores sections haven’t.

[JPfall2021applicant]

21 minutes ago, natb96 said:

Did your status ever change to “complete”? I have had the same issue and their responses on email have been...not helpful. My transcript FINALLY updated yesterday but the GPA summary/GRE scores sections haven’t.

I tried accessing the portal this morning and it seems like every time I log out I need to change my password again because it won't let me log back in, lol. I'm just gonna wait and see what happens this week!

[PositiveRegards]

51 minutes ago, natb96 said:

Did your status ever change to “complete”? I have had the same issue and their responses on email have been...not helpful. My transcript FINALLY updated yesterday but the GPA summary/GRE scores sections haven’t.

 

29 minutes ago, JPfall2021applicant said:

I tried accessing the portal this morning and it seems like every time I log out I need to change my password again because it won't let me log back in, lol. I'm just gonna wait and see what happens this week!

Ah okay good to know, thanks! Did either of you receive an email indicating your application was forwarded for review?

[bubbles27]

Has anyone heard from Pittsburgh about official interview invites? Specifically POI: AW?

[JPfall2021applicant]

3 hours ago, PositiveRegards said:

I saw someone post on the results page about an email from UMASS Boston confirming applications being forwarded for review. I haven't received this email and wondered how many people have? I had a nightmare trying to get international admissions to upload my international degree transcripts and my application status says incomplete despite being told they were uploaded. If my application was never reviewed....? 

 

13 minutes ago, PositiveRegards said:

 

Ah okay good to know, thanks! Did either of you receive an email indicating your application was forwarded for review?

Unfortunately, no  

 

[displaynamed]

If you received an invite to UMass Boston, congrats! I would love to know if your PI was HL. Please direct message me and let me know if you're comfortable. Thank you!

[JPfall2021applicant]

6 minutes ago, displaynamed said:

If you received an invite to UMass Boston, congrats! I would love to know if your PI was HL. Please direct message me and let me know if you're comfortable. Thank you!

If you are comfortable posting on the public threat, I would love to hear if anyone has heard from HL at UMB!

[higaisha]

14 minutes ago, bubbles27 said:

Has anyone heard from Pittsburgh about official interview invites? Specifically POI: AW?

Seems no one has from what I've seen...two more days to find out i guess lol 

[Biopsychosocialyzing]

11 hours ago, Psy-aye-aye said:

I applied to mostly PhDs last year because of the concern about debt, but I’m not a big fan of research and I know the PsyD is where I fit best. Clinical Psych PhDs have lower acceptance rates than med school, so if your heart isn’t 1000% in it I don’t think applying is worth the pain. Also, I want to focus on clinical training more than any PhD I’ve found. That’s just my 2¢ though! You can DM me for my thoughts if you want.

There are some balanced PhD's (LIU Brooklyn is one I applied to, but there are more) that have a strong emphasis on clinical training. That being said if you really are not interested in research it probably makes sense to only apply to PsyD's. I hope we all hear from Rutgers soon!