2021 Applicants Forum

[JPReinhold]

26 minutes ago, Michelle Zeller said:

So why the hell did I spend a fortune applying to 15 schools, if most people get rejected everywhere. I figured I was spending my money so I'd have the luxury to pic between places. I figured you needed to be accepted to many places, so you can show one school how much aid another school gave and negotiate. I know a lot of people who did that with undergraduate admissions. 

And now you are telling me that most people don't get in anywhere. What am I supposed to do next year if no one takes me? Why is it so hard to get in a school that basically offers no economic opportunity at graduation? I just read somewhere that Columbia offers very little aid. How do people there pay back student loans? 

I don't know about most, but many people do not get in anywhere. 

If you are an excellent candidate, you MAY have some wiggle room with negotiations, but it is not much (I heard of someone negotiating a small relocation sum, but it was negligible IMO) and it would be very strange to pit one school against another for fully-funded MFA offers. Earning an acceptance in a fully-funded MFA is very much a gift and should be treated as such.

I don't know the exact numbers, but estimating that there are 100 fully funded programs (there are not that many - it's probably closer to 80) and that they average 10 fiction students each (it's probably closer to 5), that means 1,000 new fiction writers each year will be funded to pursue an MFA. 1,000 (probably closer to 500). And not just Americans, 1,000 fiction writers in the world, many of whom are widely published and talented and out of work due to the pandemic. That's who is competing for these spots. Most schools average a 1-2% acceptance rate.

Everyone else pays for an MFA or waits until the next cycle.

Have you talked to the Creative Writing faculty at your undergrad about these things? It may benefit you to sit down with someone you trust to discuss the realities of this path. The very talented Creative Writing profs at my university (large state school) both applied for two cycles, to 10+ schools, and were both accepted at one school each cycle. These are people who publish novels now and have tenure positions, so not hobbyists. 

I do not know what you will do next year, but it's great to form a backup plan!

It's difficult to get in because the programs fully fund writers, and it's difficult to get grant money earmarked from large non-profits and individual givers for creative writing. The schools want to offer as many people as they can enough to get by to pursue their writing goals, but there isn't an unlimited supply of cash for creative endeavors in a capitalist system. Art does not generate profit, and will become increasingly devalued in a capitalist system. That's the harsh reality.

Columbia funds basically no one.

I do not know how people pay back their student loans. The lord knows I haven't, and I graduated 15 years ago.

I sold myself to corporations for more than a decade before pursuing this because it's out of reach for people with average means. The MFA application system is a lot like buying scratch-off lottery tickets.

TL/DR: It is a crapshoot, but I really hope you win. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by JPReinhold

[bettedavisthighs]

On 1/8/2021 at 9:04 AM, ZaytandLabna said:

I have a couple of friends who go to UF. 

Just curious have you thought about USF? I went there for my undergrad. Would have applied their for an MFA had I not been limited in location. My husband got a job in NY and I would a 100% be sad at least 50% of the time if I were living away from him lolllll. 

anyway, the professors are amazing there. I would say im biased, but i would honestly tell you if they weren't. 

hi! just wanted to chime in, as i grew up in tampa and lived in gainesville for about 6 years. your mileage may vary, based on your interests and personality, but gainesville is one of my favorite places in florida. a few things i'd mention (and keep in mind this is all based on pre-COVID experience):

-  if you want the big-state-school-student-focused town life, you can't beat Gainesville. Even if you're not a sports fan, the athletics sort of run the town, and it's easy to get swept up in the enthusiasm/celebrations/tailgating, which can be so fun. My entire family were Gators, and I never gave a shit until I lived there and we won back-to-back championships and everyone partied in the street and took a three-day vacation. That said, I made sure never to drive and be careful on my bike on gamedays - drunk frat boys and alumni can be dicey.  If that's *not* your bag, though, don't rule it out- northeast of campus is weird, and full of hippies and punks and music and food and a thriving community of political organizers and community groups. Gainesville is a blue pocket surrounded by deep red, which makes for a really interesting slice of the south that I don't think most people know exists. If you drive a few miles in any direction the nature is incredible - dozens of natural springs and underwater caves to dive, the Devil's Millhopper and Paynes Prairie...just so much to do and the ecosystem is fascinating. 

- I personally hate Tampa, even though I am applying to school there and grew up there. That might have a lot to do with the area where I grew up and personal shit (poverty, proximity to the Air Force Base, etc), though, so that's just my opinion. Tampa is close to the best beaches in Florida (IMO) in St. Pete, but doesn't actually have beach access of its own. Living in St. Pete is lovely, but would mean a 30+ min commute to class.  Additionally, housing costs have skyrocketed as the city has been rapidly changing - huge influx of young professionals and luxury condos/development happening. The best way I can explain it is Tampa is the Midtown Manhattan to St. Pete's Williamsburg, Brooklyn, with a beach. However, USF is a great school with access to tons of resources (they do a lot of partnerships with the Poynter Institute) and if you like nightlife and Caribbean food (especially Cuban food!) Ybor City is one of my favorite neighborhoods to visit. 

 

Sorry for the lengthy response, but I love Florida *because* each region is so wildly different, and I think a lot of people who aren't from here imagine the whole state is like South Beach when that's just not the case - and that's a wonderful thing. ❤️ 

[Michelle Zeller]

3 hours ago, unfortunate ith said:

I applied to almost 15 programs my first time and, while I got a couple waitlists, I ultimately didn't get in anywhere at all. It definitely sucks, and requires a lot of mental readjustment in terms of future plans, but it's not the end of the world and it happens to lots of us! I felt like my app was really strong my first time through, but while working on my second attempt (when I actually got an offer), I realized my earlier portfolio wasn't nearly as strong as I'd believed.

While you definitely shouldn't take this to mean you won't get any acceptances, it's always a good idea to start thinking about a Plan B just in case. And if you end up striking out this year, don't be dissuaded from trying again next year if this is something you really want to do!

So I've been a fool all along taking comfort that applying to so many places meant I'll have places to pick between?

So my future is you, getting wait listed at best, applying next year, and looking back at how foolish I was to have thought my writing sample was good the first year? 

3 hours ago, JPReinhold said:

Have you talked to the Creative Writing faculty at your undergrad about these things?

Columbia funds basically no one.

I wasn't a Creative Writing major, so I don't really have a faculty to talk to. 

Why do people go to Columbia? Is Columbia easy to get into because they charge? Is Columbia easier to get into than all the 80 funded MFA's? How many of the 80 funded MFAs are easier to get into than Columbia. I don't understand why most of these google searches put Columbia in the top 10. 

[unfortunate ith]

3 minutes ago, Michelle Zeller said:

So I've been a fool all along taking comfort that applying to so many places meant I'll have places to pick between?

So my future is you, getting wait listed at best, applying next year, and looking back at how foolish I was to have thought my writing sample was good the first year?

Not necessarily! Just because it happened to me doesn't mean it'll happen to you the same way. My point is only that even if you don't get in this year, that doesn't mean you'll never get in.

Edited January 10, 2021 by unfortunate ith

[JPReinhold]

16 minutes ago, Michelle Zeller said:

So I've been a fool all along taking comfort that applying to so many places meant I'll have places to pick between?

So my future is you, getting wait listed at best, applying next year, and looking back at how foolish I was to have thought my writing sample was good the first year? 

I wasn't a Creative Writing major, so I don't really have a faculty to talk to. 

Why do people go to Columbia? Is Columbia easy to get into because they charge? Is Columbia easier to get into than all the 80 funded MFA's? How many of the 80 funded MFAs are easier to get into than Columbia. I don't understand why most of these google searches put Columbia in the top 10. 

I don't know about a "fool", but you seem to have been misinformed. Applying to many increases your chance of being accepted to a program, certainly. Logically, that would also increase your odds of being accepted into more than one program (though also illogically, as they are independent odds, but I digress). The odds of getting picked for any program that is fully-funded are quite low. 

Your future depends on your portfolio! Little else matters. Publications help, creative writing classes help. This isn't because the university will put a lot of stock into those things. It's more likely you'll be accepted into a program if you've been publishing in magazines, taking creative writing classes, or taking workshops because it's more likely that you've shaped and polished your work to an MFA-ready level.

That doesn't mean you won't get in without publications or creative writing classes under your belt! As I said before, it's a crapshoot. If your portfolio strikes the evaluators as promising, that is the main battle. The second battle is how they see you interacting with the other people they've chosen for the program, stylistically - aesthetically - personally. These things you cannot control. 

I also applied to 15 schools. It is my hope that the evaluators of one of those programs sees promise in my work. You do not need all of them to like you, just as you don't need every editor to like you. You just need one.

I don't think any online rankings are particularly helpful, and I don't believe they are an authoritative way of evaluating programs. P&W stopped ranking programs back in 2012 or so simply because it wasn't a very useful exercise. Of course, Iowa, Cornell, Brown, Michigan, Syracuse, etc. have a certain reputation that does make a difference IMO. You have to ask yourself what you want to get out of a program and find that program. Different people have different goals.

I don't know much about the Columbia program, so I will let someone else speak to that. I did not apply there because paying for an MFA in NYC is not feasible for me. It may be for you, and Columbia is an excellent school. 

The reason I'm telling you this is because I do not want you to feel foolish. You may very well be admitted this year! And, in the event you are not, remember what a difficult thing you attempted and that there is time to dust off and try again. Many talented writers go through multiple cycles to earn an acceptance, and some never get accepted at all. All this is to say - if this is your dream and this is what you want more than anything else, do not give up. 
 

ETA: You ask a lot about likelihood, and these are questions we all ask. Some programs provide data, but the data can vary widely from year to year. The whole process is not made very clear to anyone and there is no repository of accurate acceptance rates with apps to admits that I've seen. The best anyone can do is scrape together data from various sources and hope it's somewhat true. We are also all dealing with pandemic year, and literary journals are saying they're getting 2-3x the number of submissions that they have in previous years. I think there will be a large influx of MFA apps this year, but that is just speculation.

We are all wondering these things and, the truth is, the information isn't made readily available.  

Edited January 10, 2021 by JPReinhold
added note about data available on acceptance rates

[FairleyAlfy]

19 minutes ago, JPReinhold said:

I don't know about a "fool", but you seem to have been misinformed. Applying to many increases your chance of being accepted to a program, certainly. Logically, that would also increase your odds of being accepted into more than one program (though also illogically, as they are independent odds, but I digress). The odds of getting picked for any program that is fully-funded are quite low. 

Your future depends on your portfolio! Little else matters. Publications help, creative writing classes help. This isn't because the university will put a lot of stock into those things. It's more likely you'll be accepted into a program if you've been publishing in magazines, taking creative writing classes, or taking workshops because it's more likely that you've shaped and polished your work to an MFA-ready level.

That doesn't mean you won't get in without publications or creative writing classes under your belt! As I said before, it's a crapshoot. If your portfolio strikes the evaluators as promising, that is the main battle. The second battle is how they see you interacting with the other people they've chosen for the program, stylistically - aesthetically - personally. These things you cannot control. 

I also applied to 15 schools. It is my hope that the evaluators of one of those programs sees promise in my work. You do not need all of them to like you, just as you don't need every editor to like you. You just need one.

I don't think any online rankings are particularly helpful, and I don't believe they are an authoritative way of evaluating programs. P&W stopped ranking programs back in 2012 or so simply because it wasn't a very useful exercise. Of course, Iowa, Cornell, Brown, Michigan, Syracuse, etc. have a certain reputation that does make a difference IMO. You have to ask yourself what you want to get out of a program and find that program. Different people have different goals.

I don't know much about the Columbia program, so I will let someone else speak to that. I did not apply there because paying for an MFA in NYC is not feasible for me. It may be for you, and Columbia is an excellent school. 

The reason I'm telling you this is because I do not want you to feel foolish. You may very well be admitted this year! And, in the event you are not, remember what a difficult thing you attempted and that there is time to dust off and try again. Many talented writers go through multiple cycles to earn an acceptance, and some never get accepted at all. All this is to say - if this is your dream and this is what you want more than anything else, do not give up. 
 

ETA: You ask a lot about likelihood, and these are questions we all ask. Some programs provide data, but the data can vary widely from year to year. The whole process is not made very clear to anyone and there is no repository of accurate acceptance rates with apps to admits that I've seen. The best anyone can do is scrape together data from various sources and hope it's somewhat true. We are also all dealing with pandemic year, and literary journals are saying they're getting 2-3x the number of submissions that they have in previous years. I think there will be a large influx of MFA apps this year, but that is just speculation.

We are all wondering these things and, the truth is, the information isn't made readily available.  

Very well said! It's definitely a lottery ticket, and it's the same with the publishing world. I applied to 14 schools, and I'm holding my breath to get accepted into one, but I'm already making plans for if I don't get accepted. I wish we knew about the number of applicants this year, but I think you're right. Lots of young people are jobless right now so it's the perfect time to try for grad school. 

[TroyMcClure]

On 1/9/2021 at 5:25 AM, Ydrl said:

Hey, for reference, if y’all had to pick your top three schools (or top one if you have three or less), what are they?

Mine are:

1. U Minnesota

2. Michener

3. U Maryland

Yes, in that order.

This seems fun.

I think mine are:

1. Boston U.

2. Hunter College

3. U of Maryland

I'd be happy with any of the eight I applied to.

[ZaytandLabna]

2 hours ago, JPReinhold said:

I don't know about a "fool", but you seem to have been misinformed. Applying to many increases your chance of being accepted to a program, certainly. Logically, that would also increase your odds of being accepted into more than one program (though also illogically, as they are independent odds, but I digress). The odds of getting picked for any program that is fully-funded are quite low. 

Your future depends on your portfolio! Little else matters. Publications help, creative writing classes help. This isn't because the university will put a lot of stock into those things. It's more likely you'll be accepted into a program if you've been publishing in magazines, taking creative writing classes, or taking workshops because it's more likely that you've shaped and polished your work to an MFA-ready level.

That doesn't mean you won't get in without publications or creative writing classes under your belt! As I said before, it's a crapshoot. If your portfolio strikes the evaluators as promising, that is the main battle. The second battle is how they see you interacting with the other people they've chosen for the program, stylistically - aesthetically - personally. These things you cannot control. 

I also applied to 15 schools. It is my hope that the evaluators of one of those programs sees promise in my work. You do not need all of them to like you, just as you don't need every editor to like you. You just need one.

I don't think any online rankings are particularly helpful, and I don't believe they are an authoritative way of evaluating programs. P&W stopped ranking programs back in 2012 or so simply because it wasn't a very useful exercise. Of course, Iowa, Cornell, Brown, Michigan, Syracuse, etc. have a certain reputation that does make a difference IMO. You have to ask yourself what you want to get out of a program and find that program. Different people have different goals.

I don't know much about the Columbia program, so I will let someone else speak to that. I did not apply there because paying for an MFA in NYC is not feasible for me. It may be for you, and Columbia is an excellent school. 

The reason I'm telling you this is because I do not want you to feel foolish. You may very well be admitted this year! And, in the event you are not, remember what a difficult thing you attempted and that there is time to dust off and try again. Many talented writers go through multiple cycles to earn an acceptance, and some never get accepted at all. All this is to say - if this is your dream and this is what you want more than anything else, do not give up. 
 

ETA: You ask a lot about likelihood, and these are questions we all ask. Some programs provide data, but the data can vary widely from year to year. The whole process is not made very clear to anyone and there is no repository of accurate acceptance rates with apps to admits that I've seen. The best anyone can do is scrape together data from various sources and hope it's somewhat true. We are also all dealing with pandemic year, and literary journals are saying they're getting 2-3x the number of submissions that they have in previous years. I think there will be a large influx of MFA apps this year, but that is just speculation.

We are all wondering these things and, the truth is, the information isn't made readily available.  

This made em think about a conversation I had with one of my undergrad professors not too long ago about this.. they were helping me with my SOP and they also happen to be a faculty member of the MFA program at the school I went to. They told me that the most important thing in an application is the statement of purpose because it tells them how we will function in that small group, and really what we are like. The writing sample, they said, tells them what skills we have mastered or which we are working on. I assume this is something many professors have their own opinion about. 

Can I ask... do you think publications really help?? 

[JPReinhold]

16 minutes ago, ZaytandLabna said:

This made em think about a conversation I had with one of my undergrad professors not too long ago about this.. they were helping me with my SOP and they also happen to be a faculty member of the MFA program at the school I went to. They told me that the most important thing in an application is the statement of purpose because it tells them how we will function in that small group, and really what we are like. The writing sample, they said, tells them what skills we have mastered or which we are working on. I assume this is something many professors have their own opinion about. 

Can I ask... do you think publications really help?? 

(To your point, I’ve been told they definitely do care a lot about the SOP and your motivations / interests. That helps them form a perception of you.)

I don’t think the publications on your CV help, but I think the act of submitting and refining your work helps prepare you for MFA apps, if that makes sense.

I’m proud of the publications I’ve had to date, but I don’t think the evaluators will put a lot of stock in them beyond the fact that I’ve been putting myself out there and navigating the world of literary magazines. Publishing gave me some confidence in which pieces to add to my portfolio - including the ones that had been printed by more exclusive publications in my writing sample and omitting many that haven’t yet found homes - but who can say if those choices were misguided or not? I guess we will wait and see*!
 

*waiting and seeing is actually killing me

[ZaytandLabna]

2 minutes ago, JPReinhold said:

(To your point, I’ve been told they definitely do care a lot about the SOP and your motivations / interests. That helps them form a perception of you.)

I don’t think the publications on your CV help, but I think the act of submitting and refining your work helps prepare you for MFA apps, if that makes sense.

I’m proud of the publications I’ve had to date, but I don’t think the evaluators will put a lot of stock in them beyond the fact that I’ve been putting myself out there and navigating the world of literary magazines. Publishing gave me some confidence in which pieces to add to my portfolio - including the ones that had been printed by more exclusive publications in my writing sample and omitting many that haven’t yet found homes - but who can say if those choices were misguided or not? I guess we will wait and see*!
 

*waiting and seeing is actually killing me

haha love that last part. every time I talk about this it ends with "but we'll see" in my head. ahh. 

That makes sense. I am very inexperienced.  and find it hard to be proud of my work. even work that has gotten published, I look at it and see things that I want to change. I hope to get to where you are.  

Hey I just saw we are both poetry concentrations. and in Florida!! haha.

[JPReinhold]

9 minutes ago, ZaytandLabna said:

haha love that last part. every time I talk about this it ends with "but we'll see" in my head. ahh. 

That makes sense. I am very inexperienced.  and find it hard to be proud of my work. even work that has gotten published, I look at it and see things that I want to change. I hope to get to where you are.  

Hey I just saw we are both poetry concentrations. and in Florida!! haha.

Maybe I will see you soon! I applied to UF, USF, and FSU (among others).

I do have pieces I’m proud of! I hope they’re not the best work I ever do because, if they are, that means I never improved. I think it’s good to have a mindset that you want to be your best you.

I know people will have intense confidence in their work, and I don’t think I ever will. I used to have no confidence at all and never submitted my poetry or stories anywhere.

Not to be your adoptive grandparent, but I am much older now. Though I don’t have more confidence in my work, I do stop and say “this is the closest I can get with the skills I have now to creating this vision”. I may not have confidence, but I can get to the point where I can like something enough that I can accept that other people don’t like it. I couldn’t do that ten years ago. 
 

... but we’ll see*. ?

[Starbuck420]

3 hours ago, Michelle Zeller said:

Why do people go to Columbia? Is Columbia easy to get into because they charge? Is Columbia easier to get into than all the 80 funded MFA's? How many of the 80 funded MFAs are easier to get into than Columbia. I don't understand why most of these google searches put Columbia in the top 10. 

Columbia is less selective than the fully funded programs (just gossip, but my friend who went there -- and is a great writer, btw -- once speculated the admit rate could be as high as 75%), but has famous faculty -- Paul Beaty, Ben Marcus, Richard Ford, Deborah Eisenburg, others -- and many accomplished alumni. So, it's a draw for those reasons and other more obvious ones: namely, it's in NYC and is an ivy.

Honestly, if you're going to pay for it, Columbia is a better option than many places. But yeah, you'll have to pay. Word is they tend to admit classes of ~70 or more and give substantial funding, in the form of partial tuition waivers, to a very small number of applicants (think single digits).

Another reason it's less selective is the large size of each cohort. I can't think of anywhere else other than Iowa that has an incoming class approaching that number
 

[mrvisser]

1 hour ago, ZaytandLabna said:

This made em think about a conversation I had with one of my undergrad professors not too long ago about this.. they were helping me with my SOP and they also happen to be a faculty member of the MFA program at the school I went to. They told me that the most important thing in an application is the statement of purpose because it tells them how we will function in that small group, and really what we are like. The writing sample, they said, tells them what skills we have mastered or which we are working on. I assume this is something many professors have their own opinion about. 

Can I ask... do you think publications really help?? 

Interesting that they told you the SOP is most important. The faculty members I talked to emphasized that the SOP is important, but is always second to writing sample. I think it makes sense, though, that people should really demonstrate their attitude. I didn't actually talk about working with other MFA students in my SOP, so hopefully that doesn't hurt me. I mostly emphasized my own influences, what I hope to get from a degree, why I'm interested specifically in each program and its location, and what I want to do with my career going forward.

[Starbuck420]

10 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

Interesting that they told you the SOP is most important.

Yeah, I have heard from everyone/where that the SOP is much less important than the sample, and basically is just an opportunity for you to prove that you're not a bad person. As Mat Johnson of UH (very selective program) says in this video: "It can't look like a letter from the unabomber"

edit: used the wrong words!

Edited January 11, 2021 by Starbuck420

[mrvisser]

4 minutes ago, Starbuck420 said:

Yeah, I have heard from everyone/where that the SOP is much less important than the sample, and basically is just an opportunity for you to prove that you're not a bad person. As Mat Johnson of UH (very selective program) says in this video: "It can't look like a letter from the unabomber"

edit: used the wrong words!

Haha well Ted Kaczynski got a doctorate when he was in his 20s so he was probably really good at grad-school applications! 

[yahearditherefirst]

Did any of y'all submit the GRE? It probably doesn't help at all, but I figured it couldn't hurt with how competitive the programs are.

[spacedumpster]

On 1/9/2021 at 8:25 AM, Ydrl said:

Hey, for reference, if y’all had to pick your top three schools (or top one if you have three or less), what are they?

Mine are:

1. U Minnesota

2. Michener

3. U Maryland

Yes, in that order.

Here's mine w/ primary reasoning:

1. Michener (mainly because I'm not super keen on teaching, and Austin seems like a dope place to live)

2. University of Florida (solid funding, have some friends in Gainesville, and I had an excellent conversation with the program director)

3. Arizona State University (applied at the recommendation of a friend/former professor, director is Matt Bell whose work is not too far from my own, and living in the desert like a scaly lizard person sounds neat)

[babypoet2k]

On 1/9/2021 at 6:55 PM, Ydrl said:

Hey, for reference, if y’all had to pick your top three schools (or top one if you have three or less), what are they?

Mine are:

1. U Minnesota

2. Michener

3. U Maryland

Yes, in that order.

I would pick

Iowa (for the people of the program)

Syracuse (for the location and teaching opportunities

Northwestern (for the MA+MFA degree option since my undergrad was in literature and i still love it to bits haha)

but i only applied to six and frankly all 6 are gorgeous programs so i will gladly take any acceptance i can get.

[spacedumpster]

On 1/1/2021 at 9:07 PM, feralgrad said:

That's a great strategy! I'm trying to make myself edit something for publication right now. I've been putting it off cos it's loosely based on some difficult stuff from my personal life, which I haven't felt like revisiting lately.

Anyway, good luck with your submissions!!

Hey feralgrad, anything floatin' around the rumor mill at your school re: the applicant pool this cycle? ? Numbers compared to previous years, stage in review, timelines, etc? Obviously everywhere is going to be different, but it might give us anxious toe-tappers a lil' something to extrapolate from.

[babypoet2k]

25 minutes ago, yahearditherefirst said:

Did any of y'all submit the GRE? It probably doesn't help at all, but I figured it couldn't hurt with how competitive the programs are.

No, but only because it's expensive and most programs waived it this year if they hadn't already removed it from their requirements. Iowa is the only school i applied to that even recommended or suggested that i could take it, but i didn't think it would matter because everything i've heard and read about IWW tells me that they do not care all that much for anything but your portfolio. 

However, a GRE does help (or so I've heard) when it comes to fellowships and assistantships, and especially for programs that have a literature focus (northwestern, for eg). All things considered, I think that while there's a possibility (and just that) that it may not particularly help you, it will not hurt you one bit. Especially so if you applied to non-fully funded programs. Funding there can get competitive and this will definitely give you an edge.

[The_Realeo]

6 hours ago, Michelle Zeller said:

So I've been a fool all along taking comfort that applying to so many places meant I'll have places to pick between?

So my future is you, getting wait listed at best, applying next year, and looking back at how foolish I was to have thought my writing sample was good the first year? 

I wasn't a Creative Writing major, so I don't really have a faculty to talk to. 

Why do people go to Columbia? Is Columbia easy to get into because they charge? Is Columbia easier to get into than all the 80 funded MFA's? How many of the 80 funded MFAs are easier to get into than Columbia. I don't understand why most of these google searches put Columbia in the top 10. 

I wasn't a Creative Writing major or English major either, but I did reach out to Creative Writing faculty to at my university.  Two professors actually gave me feedback on my work and tips on my application, as far as what they are looking for when they accept candidates.  One professor said that he wanted to focus on students who he has taught in person, and that was completely understandable.  This post is completely irrelevant to whether or not you get accepted or don't get accepted.  But if you do ever need any tips on the process (even the waiting game), I will say that the professors at my school in CW were a great resource to me, even though I never met them in person.   

Edited January 11, 2021 by The_Realeo

[The_Realeo]

Super weird question, but I've been wondering.  I know COVID is negatively affecting many universities at the undergraduate level.  I also have seen that applications for MBAs are way up because of economic trials.  Do you guys think that there will be more or less applicants than usual because of the pandemic?  Obviously no one knows; it's just a curiosity. 

[mrvisser]

10 minutes ago, The_Realeo said:

Super weird question, but I've been wondering.  I know COVID is negatively affecting many universities at the undergraduate level.  I also have seen that applications for MBAs are way up because of economic trials.  Do you guys think that there will be more or less applicants than usual because of the pandemic?  Obviously no one knows; it's just a curiosity. 

Everything I've heard indicates there are a lot more people applying this year, but that's been hearsay.

[Pinskadan]

Woah! So much activity since I last checked in. Re: the discussions around Why Apply To This School, or How Do I Deal With The Super-Selectiveness, I've been lucky to have a faculty mentor who did his MFA at one of the Prestigious ProgramsTM (and got accepted to multiple with full funding) and set my expectations from the get-go. The day I came into his office and let him know I was thinking of applying to MFAs (two years ago), he told me this:

"I would never go out of my way to push someone to go to an MFA. But if you know that's what you want, then I'll support you all the way."

He said that because he wanted me to know that the process is challenging, financially risky, and poses little chance of major career success, but that the MFA education can still be valuable in other ways. I was (and AM!) SO LUCKY to have his advice, and thought I could share some of his best advice with all of y'all as we all sit here and wait (im)patiently for our decisions to roll in ?

1. Know what you're getting an MFA for: Are you going to get the credentials you need to teach at a collegiate level? Are you going so you can have 2-3 years to work on your project? Do you want to buckle down on craft and technical construction? Are you trying to connect with other writers to gain a sense of community and professional network? Do you want to move somewhere with an active literary scene to expand your ideas and reading lists? The answer to this question will frame how you decide which programs you're interested in.

2. Plan to apply twice (or more): My professor has always told me to expect to get rejected on the first go-around, and that it's really just a happy miracle if you get in then. You can use your first application cycle to familiarize yourself with the process and that will make your applications that much stronger in the next cycle. (I'm only on my first application cycle and I'm bracing myself for rejection).

3. Don't succumb to competitiveness: It's already tremendously difficult to get into an MFA, and odds are that only one or two people per program per year will end up going on to be meaningfully successful as a writer in their career. That doesn't mean you need to be mean, or treat your peers like your competition! The fact is, their success has no bearing on your ability to succeed (and vice versa). It's best to contribute to an environment of mutual support-- and in all likelihood, your peers will have their corner of the market they're interested in and you'll have yours!

4.  Don't compromise (sorta): Unlike going undergrad, there are probably few (if any) people expecting you to get an MFA other than yourself. The only field that requires this type of degree for anything is some writing professorships, if that. To that end, only apply to (and accept) programs you'd be genuinely happy to attend! 

5. Amazing writers get rejected: Amazing writers get rejected? Amazing writers get rejected. Amazing writers get rejected!! These programs are so selective that even really really talented writers will get turned down. Admissions teams might reject an application today that they would've accepted tomorrow. As others have said, it's a crapshoot! Try not to take decisions personally, and recognize that rejections are not a condemnation of your work. Admissions teams are making hard decisions between great applicants and sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Either way, you should keep on writing!

I hope everyone is taking care and that you're all keeping busy while waiting for decisions, I know I'm going wild waiting haha

[Michelle Zeller]

8 hours ago, ZaytandLabna said:

They told me that the most important thing in an application is the statement of purpose because it tells them how we will function in that small group, and really what we are like. The writing sample, they said, tells them what skills we have mastered or which we are working on. 

 

7 hours ago, mrvisser said:

Interesting that they told you the SOP is most important. The faculty members I talked to emphasized that the SOP is important, but is always second to writing sample.

That  professor is full of shit. I've never heard anything dumber. Even I, whose MFA knowledge comes from five google searches, have already stumbled upon four claims that the SOP is thrown out. So Iowa sits there and says everyone can win a Nobel if they keep trying, and I don't care how close the applicant is to the Nobel today. I care about how he works with others. 

They check to see if the SOP sounds like the Unabomber. That's it. No one ever got in because of an SOP. They were only rejected for it. 

Everyone can't win a Nobel, and the level you start at matters. The professor is telling you how he wishes the world was, not how it is.