2021 Applicants Forum

[Starbuck420]

Any UT-Knoxville applicants here? Round 1 notifications are out

 

[Ydrl]

10 hours ago, archiapelo said:

I had to read it a few times.

How do you think the rest of us feel when we have to decode what you’re saying?

[mrvisser]

1 hour ago, Starbuck420 said:

Any UT-Knoxville applicants here? Round 1 notifications are out

 

Wow that's early! I didn't apply there, but it's on my "maybe" list for next year if I don't get in this year. Looks like their deadline is the same as Michener Center. I wonder when we can expect to hear back from Texas.

[FairleyAlfy]

22 hours ago, Ydrl said:

Well, there are four of us telling you that your messages are incoherent. That’s not four of us lacking reading comprehension skills; it’s definitely you not forming coherent thoughts.

I don’t want to offend anyone with the “word salad” bit btw. I “word salad” when I talk sometimes, it’s part of my illness. That’s why I like writing, I can edit it before anyone sees it.

SAME! I word salad a lot when I talk ?

[Ydrl]

1 hour ago, archiapelo said:

You can call version 2 productively incoherent and salad like; it is so in ways similar to how minds actually think. If you have to re-read version 2, then the fault might be with the reader’s comprehension, not the writing.

Nah, the second version isn’t hard to read. It’s just when you’re talking to other people, you don’t sound like a human being. I’ve been trying to tell you that, but you don’t pick up hints at all.

[Ydrl]

54 minutes ago, FairleyAlfy said:

SAME! I word salad a lot when I talk ?

I found a friend

[Graceful Entropy]

22 hours ago, mrvisser said:

Figured it out! Go to account settings in the top right, and then you can add a signature. I just added mine.

Got it. Thanks!

[orangeslice]

2 hours ago, archiapelo said:

Consider two versions.

Version 1 (Spacedumpster): Ahh yes the store brand, M*rshall Okayman.

Version 2: Ah, yes, M*rshall Goodman, peddling his second-rate wisdom again, reminding me of those tacky, polyester suits at the Marshalls store. And what a grand last name. If there were truth in advertising, he’d have to call himself Mediocre-man.

Version 2 tries to trace how people actually think, in complicated, jumbled, even incoherent, baby steps.

To write version 1, you first had to think of the gimmick on Marshall’s store; then you had to think of the grade school name humor. Then you had to decide how great it would be to be concise. But the mind doesn’t actually think up two things at once, so the reader has to re-read. The sentence has what you might call an unproductive complexity. Ydrl would call it incoherent or salad-like.

You can call version 2 productively incoherent and salad like; it is so in ways similar to how minds actually think. If you have to re-read version 2, then the fault might be with the reader’s comprehension, not the writing.

On the off chance you're actually an applicant, this seems like an odd way to interact with potential future classmates. Supposing some of us get into the same program, do you really want people walking into the first day of class wondering who of their peers was that asshole from gradcafe? Seems like a weird way to start, man. Also do you really not have anything better to do? I know it's covid and everything but this just seems really sad...

[mrvisser]

3 minutes ago, orangeslice said:

On the off chance you're actually an applicant, this seems like an odd way to interact with potential future classmates. Supposing some of us get into the same program, do you really want people walking into the first day of class wondering who of their peers was that asshole from gradcafe? Seems like a weird way to start, man. Also do you really not have anything better to do? I know it's covid and everything but this just seems really sad...

Even if none of us get into MFA programs, it just seems weird to even show hostility in an online forum that's essentially just here to serve as a space for us to relate over mutual excitement/anxiety.

[orangeslice]

2 hours ago, archiapelo said:

Consider two versions.

Version 1 (Spacedumpster): Ahh yes the store brand, M*rshall Okayman.

Version 2: Ah, yes, M*rshall Goodman, peddling his second-rate wisdom again, reminding me of those tacky, polyester suits at the Marshalls store. And what a grand last name. If there were truth in advertising, he’d have to call himself Mediocre-man.

Version 2 tries to trace how people actually think, in complicated, jumbled, even incoherent, baby steps.

To write version 1, you first had to think of the gimmick on Marshall’s store; then you had to think of the grade school name humor. Then you had to decide how great it would be to be concise. But the mind doesn’t actually think up two things at once, so the reader has to re-read. The sentence has what you might call an unproductive complexity. Ydrl would call it incoherent or salad-like.

You can call version 2 productively incoherent and salad like; it is so in ways similar to how minds actually think. If you have to re-read version 2, then the fault might be with the reader’s comprehension, not the writing.

On the off chance you're actually an applicant, this seems like an odd way to interact with potential future classmates. Supposing some of us get into the same program, do you really want people walking into the first day of class wondering who of their peers was that asshole from gradcafe? Seems like a weird way to start, man. Also do you really not have anything better to do? I know it's covid and everything but this just seems really sad...

[orangeslice]

3 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

Even if none of us get into MFA programs, it just seems weird to even show hostility in an online forum that's essentially just here to serve as a space for us to relate over mutual excitement/anxiety.

Exactly! And is anyone still struggling with duplicate posting? Not sure what I'm doing wrong lol

[mrvisser]

2 minutes ago, orangeslice said:

Exactly! And is anyone still struggling with duplicate posting? Not sure what I'm doing wrong lol

If it doesn't send at first, just leave it alone and it should eventually send on its own.

[Ydrl]

54 minutes ago, FairleyAlfy said:

SAME! I word salad a lot when I talk ?

I found a friend

[Ydrl]

40 minutes ago, orangeslice said:

On the off chance you're actually an applicant, this seems like an odd way to interact with potential future classmates. Supposing some of us get into the same program, do you really want people walking into the first day of class wondering who of their peers was that asshole from gradcafe? Seems like a weird way to start, man. Also do you really not have anything better to do? I know it's covid and everything but this just seems really sad...

I know back in the day workshops were an “eat or get eaten” kind of thing. But most of them aren’t like that now.

[Starbuck420]

8 hours ago, mrvisser said:

Wow that's early! I didn't apply there, but it's on my "maybe" list for next year if I don't get in this year. Looks like their deadline is the same as Michener Center. I wonder when we can expect to hear back from Texas.

Super early! I like their application process a lot: 2 rounds, no app fee in round 1, and an initial decision in less than 4 weeks. Very accommodating. I likely would have applied anyway, but the process itself was a draw for me. I wish there were established journals who read and responded to work in less than 4 weeks lol

[mrvisser]

4 minutes ago, Starbuck420 said:

Super early! I like their application process a lot: 2 rounds, no app fee in round 1, and an initial decision in less than 4 weeks. Very accommodating. I likely would have applied anyway, but the process itself was a draw for me. I wish there were established journals who read and responded to work in less than 4 weeks lol

Damn if I had known that I definitely would have applied there. I applied to Ole Miss, and they do it the same way: no money, just a writing sample and SOP for phase 1. Their deadline was Dec. 15, so I'm not sure how soon I'll hear back on that one.

[Ydrl]

1 hour ago, archiapelo said:

I yearn for the good old days. Today, it is impossible to figure out what people really think. No matter what you write, people tell you the same thing: it is so great, and you are so beautiful. One day, I'll bring in something my 7 year old cousin wrote. I'll watch people twist and turn to figure out ways to compare the writing to Hemingway's. 

Well, when you invent time travel let me know, because I got serious beef with a sh*t ton of people.

And I hope you realize that people say nice things because we’re only human. Getting torn down over and over again for your writing (the thing you’ve spent days slaving over) is hard and needless. If we stay civil and acknowledge the good in addition to the bad, that’s what writing workshops are about these days.

[feralgrad]

8 hours ago, archiapelo said:

I yearn for the good old days. Today, it is impossible to figure out what people really think. No matter what you write, people tell you the same thing: it is so great, and you are so beautiful. One day, I'll bring in something my 7 year old cousin wrote. I'll watch people twist and turn to figure out ways to compare the writing to Hemingway's. 

Spoken like someone who's not in an MFA program. I've personally seen people get their rear ends handed to them in workshop, but in a way that's civil and not ad hominem. The reason the Iowa "bar brawl" days ended is because it was unprofessional and unhelpful.

[mrvisser]

50 minutes ago, feralgrad said:

Spoken like someone who's not in an MFA program. I've personally seen people get their rear ends handed to them in workshop, but in a way that's civil and not ad hominem. The reason the Iowa "bar brawl" days ended is because it was unprofessional and unhelpful.

Well, if this is the same guy from earlier, I think he said something about being rejected from MFAs in four different years. Maybe you can clarify, but he seems way off on the whole "this is how they're going to teach you to write and read." Seems to me it's more about working on the strengths you already possess rather than pushing any kind of specific pedagogy on students.

[unfortunate ith]

Hey folks, just wanted to pop in to say whether you're applying this year, next year, or are already in a program, y'all are superstars for doing this during a pandemic, and all the hard work you're putting in is cool as hell. Wishing everyone the best for the new year as we hold our collective breath and wait to hear back from places.

I hope trolls like this archiapelo guy don't put too much of a damper on things, because everyone here deserves to be really proud of what they've already accomplished and what they'll continue to accomplish.

Cheers.

[feralgrad]

1 hour ago, mrvisser said:

Maybe you can clarify, but he seems way off on the whole "this is how they're going to teach you to write and read." Seems to me it's more about working on the strengths you already possess rather than pushing any kind of specific pedagogy on students.

I think it depends on the program; I've heard that some have a reputation for being prescriptive and/or leaning heavily on mid-century literary ideals. However, it seems like there's been a major shift away from that attitude in the MFA world as a whole, as can be seen in the increasing presence of genre fiction in many programs.

At any rate, the attitude in my program encourages the writer's autonomy. Professors (and students) focus on "what's working at what's not." They don't make many prescriptive suggestions, and if they do they'll acknowledge that they're prescriptive. The idea is that they can point towards the strengths and weaknesses of your piece, but it's your choice how you sculpt em. Kind of a long answer to a short question, but I hope it helps!

tl:dr: some programs might "teach you how to write and read," but the MFA model is trending towards creative autonomy for students.

[feralgrad]

38 minutes ago, archiapelo said:

I don't believe anyone's writing has been made better by anything on this website.

Then you don't understand what this forum is used for. It's used as a community for applicants, not a workshop setting. People do exchange work privately, but the message board is for support and application advice -- not writing advice. If you're looking for that, go somewhere else.

Edited December 24, 2020 by feralgrad

[Ydrl]

59 minutes ago, archiapelo said:

Maybe. That’s a subjective assessment. There are other possibilities. Political correctness came. The change wasn’t just in MFA school. Law professors used to run class like it was a military academy. They stopped. They are kinder and gentler. It happened in every academic discipline.

Then Donald Trump took that to mean that there is no objective truth, the same way the workshop started to say every writing is equally good. So Trump lied to America when the doctors told him COVID is going to be big. His explanation was that he is a cheerleader, not a truth teller.

I don't believe on this site, or in workshops anymore, there is any interest in truth. Instead you see posts that the objective is "support." 

I don't believe anyone's writing has been made better by anything on this website. The assumption is there is no such thing as better. Writing school is described in ludicriously spongey ways:

 

Of course they’re gentler now, would you want to be verbally abused by your classmates and teachers every time you brought something in? If you say yes, then you can f*ck off. As an abuse survivor, that’s not okay.

I wasn’t expecting you to shit on Donald Trump, but okay sure.

You can have truth and support at the same time, you don’t need to sacrifice one to get the other.

This ain’t the place to review work with each other, we’re here for support. If you aren’t, leave.

I do enjoy the words “ludicrously spongey” together. You finally typed up something interesting instead of your usual garbage.

[Graceful Entropy]

Y'all. I love you, but I can't stress this enough: Please do not engage w/ trolls. 

We call it out (as we have), and then ignore so as not to further the messaging. 
No oxygen, no fuel, no fire.

[mrvisser]

11 minutes ago, Graceful Entropy said:

Y'all. I love you, but I can't stress this enough: Please do not engage w/ trolls. 

We call it out (as we have), and then ignore so as not to further the messaging. 
No oxygen, no fuel, no fire.

Agreed. When I squabble I'm later embarrassed to remember that I'm 28 years old, so I've stopped engaging.