Finding a husband in graduate school.

[pears]

thank you, based madame lulu. (however: oh, the painful irony that your icon should feature only the most refined of gentlemen..)

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

I agree with those qualities being important for being a mother. Being a mother is different because you're responsible for the development of a human life. Lots of career women are shitty mothers. But I don't agree with the notion of striving to become a wife for the sake of being a wife. Being a wife is not an occupation. You're making it sound like one. 

 

I know a lot of shitty stay at home moms, too.

[FestivusMiracle]

You can't bang your housekeeper.

Tell that to the Governator.

[LittleDarlings]

http://jezebel.com/everyone-panic-more-and-more-married-women-arent-hav-1479870622

I thought this was a pretty interesting article.

[mandarin.orange]

This blog post (from today) reminded me of this thread and (grudgingly) roused me to participate again. Love her no-holds-barred language about having a baby while in academia.

 

Five Things I Say to Career Women Who Tell Me They Want To Have a Baby

[LittleDarlings]

That makes me want kids more... I will do the folic acid thing and I will try not to think that by 30 my eggs will be rotten. I never thought that specifically I think at 30 your fertility decreases more drastically than it was at like 20

[NatureGurl]

This blog post (from today) reminded me of this thread and (grudgingly) roused me to participate again. Love her no-holds-barred language about having a baby while in academia.

 

Five Things I Say to Career Women Who Tell Me They Want To Have a Baby

 

Oh my freaking goodness! I took an undergrad course from her years ago!

[LittleDarlings]

Is she on this forum?

[mandarin.orange]

I will try not to think that by 30 my eggs will be rotten.

 

One of my favorite rebuttals to this (inaccurate, not scientifically proven) idea is the following article. Love, love, LOVE that she uses a Tiny Fey, Amy Poehler et al. SNL bit as part of her supporting evidence:

 

How Long Can You Wait to Have a Baby?

 

 

Oh my freaking goodness! I took an undergrad course from her years ago!

 

Awesome! I am secretly hoping that she lectures exactly like she writes/blogs...would be hilarious. 

[Loric]

I find that, in general, those worried about if their eggs will go rotten have unfortunately allowed their incubator to become something other than a proper rearing instrument and environment. Such questioning of their egg status being a key indicator. 

 

The take away being: before you question if your eggs are rotten you should probably ask if you're already rotten yourself. 

[NatureGurl]

One of my favorite rebuttals to this (inaccurate, not scientifically proven) idea is the following article. Love, love, LOVE that she uses a Tiny Fey, Amy Poehler et al. SNL bit as part of her supporting evidence:

 

How Long Can You Wait to Have a Baby?

 

 

 

Awesome! I am secretly hoping that she lectures exactly like she writes/blogs...would be hilarious. 

 

 

No, back then she was an assistant professor and newly arrived at the university. She was a great lecturer, and we had a very hands-on class, but she kept it professional. That's why I was kind of shocked to read some of the language on her blog.

[LittleDarlings]

I find that, in general, those worried about if their eggs will go rotten have unfortunately allowed their incubator to become something other than a proper rearing instrument and environment. Such questioning of their egg status being a key indicator. 

 

The take away being: before you question if your eggs are rotten you should probably ask if you're already rotten yourself.

I don't get what you mean?

Am I rotten?? Umm no... I mean from what my doctor has said everything is normal and believe me I have asked my doctor a million times about potentially getting pregnant (and she's said pretty much what all of you said).

Anyways I started that article and it's pretty good, I'm glad that if I have to wait until 30 to have a baby my fertility will not have decreased much. Ideally I would still like to get pregnant in my 20s but IF it didn't happen until my 30s I guess that would be ok. I just never wanted to be an "old parent" like my parents.

[nugget]

I don't see what the big hype is for people to have their own birth children. There are so many orphaned children who are deserving of loving and devoted parents. If people can't have children and they are dying to have some why don't they try to adopt? That seems like a healthier alternative, from a mental health perspective, rather than to become anxious,depressed and regretful for the rest of their lives. 

 

A happy person is someone who makes the best use of the hand of cards that life deals them, rather than trying to force what cannot happen and live with deep sadness and regret over things that were just not meant to be.

Edited December 11, 2013 by jenste

[LittleDarlings]

I don't even want to think about possibly not being able to have kids, it would be the most devastating awful depressing thing. I see no problem with adopting but it just isn't something I want to do (if I have to I will) I want to be huge and pregnant and puke everyday and feel my little munchkin kick! I just want all that and I couldn't have that if I adopted, then one day I would have to explain to my kid that I'm not their biological mother and it just seems so complicated. If I had to do it I would but I would rather not

[Maziana]

http://jezebel.com/everyone-panic-more-and-more-married-women-arent-hav-1479870622

I thought this was a pretty interesting article.

 

I definitely don't want kids! It'd be cool to be married without kids.

I once had these 3 friends who were kind of in a relationship. I thought that if I were in a relationship with two other people, I might consider raising a kid. Three people splitting the child-rearing duties and work is def the way to go; would make it all so much easier. No being exhausted and having to do all the chores; more financial security...

Uh. Sorry this is kind of off topic, but that is what that article made me think of.

[TheOnlyWayIKnow]

My mother was adopted, so my whole live I have wanted to adopt. It makes me sick that people find it too "complicated" and believe the child is not their "own." If you want to open your heart and your life to a child and you choose to have that child, yes, have not "take in," that is your child without a doubt. I admit some people are better equipped to deal with the potentially gut wrenching situation of their child wanting to seek out their biological parents, but that doesn't mean your child loves you any less just because they are curious. It may even bring your children closer to you when they see the kind of life you were able to provide. In fact, I am very close with my biological family, but that doesn't downgrade the status of my adoptive family. I only wish my grandmother had been more receptive toward my biological family-- she's always seemed a bit bitter about it, although my mom calls her father by his first name because he is not her dad i.e. the man who raised her and who she will always see as dad. I wish people would stop thinking about it as some sort of last resort, second choice scenario. I never have, and I will never marry a man who will not adopt a child with me. Admittedly, I will probably give birth as well, but adoption has always been something I have planned to do without reservation. I can only hope that we one day live in a society where adoption is seen as a first choice option instead of a last resort. I love children unreservedly regardless of DNA.

[gellert]

I don't see what the big hype is for people to have their own birth children. There are so many orphaned children who are deserving of loving and devoted parents. If people can't have children and they are dying to have some why don't they try to adopt? That seems like a healthier alternative, from a mental health perspective, rather than to become anxious,depressed and regretful for the rest of their lives. 

 

A happy person is someone who makes the best use of the hand of cards that life deals them, rather than trying to force what cannot happen and live with deep sadness and regret over things that were just not meant to be.

 

Y'know, this comment really bothers me.  I was/am planning to adopt either way, but when I found out I was most likely infertile, that didn't make it any less devastating to me.  Having not been in that situation yourself, I doubt you can imagine the grief one feels upon realizing that the option of having biological children no longer exists.  The fact that I'd planned to adopt before I found out was irrelevant.  It was still devastating.  I excitedly look forward to one day adopting children in the future, and while I know your comment was not meant maliciously, it still felt insensitive given my own experience.

[CageFree]

But why is there such grief associated with not being able to produce children naturally?

 

I do not want any children, biological or otherwise, but can understand the desire to be a parent. What I don't understand is why it's such a big deal to have that child come from your own womb.

[gellert]

But why is there such grief associated with not being able to produce children naturally?

 

I do not want any children, biological or otherwise, but can understand the desire to be a parent. What I don't understand is why it's such a big deal to have that child come from your own womb.

 

I think it's probably somewhat societally ingrained in us.  Or evolutionarily, if you go for that: the drive to pass on one's genes.  But something being irrational doesn't undo or invalidate the emotional experience of it. 

 

Perhaps this explains somewhat?

 

 

Don't Push Adoption (Yet)

Adoption is a wonderful way for infertile people to become parents. (As an adoptive parent, I can fully vouch for this!!) However, the couple needs to work through many issues before they will be ready to make an adoption decision. Before they can make the decision to love an adopted child, they must first grieve the loss of that baby with Daddy's eyes and Mommy's nose. Adoption social workers recognize the importance of the grieving process. When my husband and I went for our initial adoption interview, we expected the first question to be, "Why do you want to adopt a baby?" Instead, the question was, "Have you grieved the loss of your biological child yet?" Our social worker emphasized how important it is to shut one door before you open another.

 

You do, indeed, need to grieve this loss before you are ready to start the adoption process. The adoption process is very long and expensive, and it is not an easy road. So, the couple needs to be very sure that they can let go of the hope of a biological child and that they can love an adopted baby. This takes time, and some couples are never able to reach this point. If your friend cannot love a baby that isn't her "own," then adoption isn't the right decision for her, and it is certainly not what is best for the baby.

 

Mentioning adoption in passing can be a comfort to some couples. (The only words that ever offered me comfort were from my sister, who said, "Whether through pregnancy or adoption, you will be a mother one day.") However, "pushing" the issue can frustrate your friend. So, mention the idea in passing if it seems appropriate, and then drop it. When your friend is ready to talk about adoption, she will raise the issue herself.

 

So, what can you say to your infertile friends? Unless you say "I am giving you this baby," there is nothing you can say that will erase their pain. So, take that pressure off of yourself. It isn't your job to erase their pain, but there is a lot you can do to lessen the load

Edited December 13, 2013 by gellert

[gellert]

Though I doubt there's a way to get across the feeling without someone experiencing it.  I kind of felt the same as others in this thread before I found out I was infertile.  I already wanted to exclusively adopt, and I thought that providing a home for children who needed one was more important than having a bio child.  You'd think that'd mean finding out I was infertile would be no big deal, but it devastated me for a reason I can't even explain.  I don't think it has to mesh with my logical mind.  I can feel something, and it can be a feeling that has meaning and worth, without it having to align perfectly with my rational beliefs.  But someone saying that those feelings are invalid or shouldn't be felt strikes me as narrow-minded and ignorant.  (But asking for someone's experiences, as CageFree did, is fine with me.  It's just the people who act like I shouldn't feel this way because they think that THEY wouldn't that bug me.)

Edited December 13, 2013 by gellert

[nugget]

Did not mean to offend. I am able to have children one day, as far as I know, but I would rather adopt. Orphaned children are not second class children or last resort choices, as far as I am concerned. There are so many deserving children in this world who are suffering because they lack the love and stability of a parent and a permanent home.

 

It does not matter to me whose womb the baby comes from. I can love a child even if it has different genes or even if I didn't witness the baby's birthday or wasn't the first one to hold it. But I realize I am a minority and many don't feel this way. Which is why I said I don't understand why the biological connection is so important for some people. I did not say people who think differently are wrong to think as they do or they shouldn't. I just said that I don't understand it.

 

Y'know, this comment really bothers me.  I was/am planning to adopt either way, but when I found out I was most likely infertile, that didn't make it any less devastating to me.  Having not been in that situation yourself, I doubt you can imagine the grief one feels upon realizing that the option of having biological children no longer exists.  The fact that I'd planned to adopt before I found out was irrelevant.  It was still devastating.  I excitedly look forward to one day adopting children in the future, and while I know your comment was not meant maliciously, it still felt insensitive given my own experience.

Edited December 13, 2013 by jenste

[nugget]

Gellert:  To followed up on that point, we all have dreams and hopes for our lives. It's great to go after our dreams. But if something happens that makes it impossible to fulfill our dreams (ie: becoming infertile, acquiring a terminal illness or disability, filing for bankrupcy, divorce, whatever...) there comes a point in time in our life, after the disappointment and necessary time for grief and mourning, that we have a choice to make. 

 

This is what I was referring to. The choice. After the mourning period (and the duration will vary from person to person), we can live the rest of our lives in the past and feel regret, bitterness, sadness and depression. Or we can look for the good things we have in our lives, be grateful for other things we have in our lives, and create new dreams and goals that reflect our new reality and find new ways to be happy. This is what I was refering to. I think this is important for one's mental health. If someone lives in regret and in the past it is not healthy. But I in no way meant to suggest that mourning is not necessary.

Edited December 13, 2013 by jenste

[gellert]

Gellert:  To followed up on that point, we all have dreams and hopes for our lives. It's great to go after our dreams. But if something happens that makes it impossible to fulfill our dreams (ie: becoming infertile, acquiring a terminal illness or disability, filing for bankrupcy, divorce, whatever...) there comes a point in time in our life, after the disappointment and necessary time for grief and mourning, that we have a choice to make. 

This is what I was referring to. The choice. After the mourning period (and the duration will vary from person to person), we can live the rest of our lives in the past and feel regret, bitterness, sadness and depression. Or we can look for the good things we have in our lives, be grateful for other things we have in our lives, and create new dreams and goals that reflect our new reality and find new ways to be happy. This is what I was refering to. I think this is important for one's mental health. If someone lives in regret and in the past it is not healthy. But I in no way meant to suggest that mourning is not necessary. I also was not referring to Pinkster when I made my previous comment. I was referring to people who are infertile.

 

Yes, I agree with your comment here.  Thank you for clarifying.  I also absolutely agree that adopted children are in NO way second-class children.  Personally I can't wait to adopt a (older, less likely to be chosen) child of my own.  It will not matter in any way to me that we are not biologically related; I will love them just the same.  

 

I think I'm just sensitive still as the news of my infertility only came a week ago.

Edited December 13, 2013 by gellert

[LittleDarlings]

But why is there such grief associated with not being able to produce children naturally?

 

I do not want any children, biological or otherwise, but can understand the desire to be a parent. What I don't understand is why it's such a big deal to have that child come from your own womb.

I want a little person who is completely and totally mine.  I want to pass along my corky habits or eye shape and stuff like that.  I know that adopting is a great thing but to me it would be a last resort, I don't want that I want to carry a baby and deliver and go through all that I just want it so badly. It is so important to me.

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

I want a little person who is completely and totally mine.  I want to pass along my corky habits or eye shape and stuff like that.  I know that adopting is a great thing but to me it would be a last resort, I don't want that I want to carry a baby and deliver and go through all that I just want it so badly. It is so important to me.

Nothing wrong with this opinion. I think there's something special in knowing that you "created" a human being. I don't know how parents with children of their own and adopted children feel about their children. I know that I would probably feel something more "special" with the children that are biologically mine. I don't know if I'd love them more or treat them any better--I just know that I would feel something differently for them.