Losing it

[Pretty_Penny]

So it's early on Sunday and I'm sitting in bed trying to do the reading assigned for my class, but I can't because I'm crying. Why am I crying? Because I have an 84% in my stats class and the class average is 90%. Now it is important to note that 1) we've done 2/10 homeworks and this grade doesn't include either exam, and 2) the two lowest homework scores get dropped. So why the hell am I crying?

 

I don't know. This has to be a symptom of a bigger problem, mainly the fact that I feel so incredibly incompetent that I can barely function. And no, this isn't typical imposter syndrome. It's crippling fear and self-loathing that makes me want to stay in bed all day and shut off the outside world. I believe most of it stems from the awful lab situation I'm in (I talked about it in a different subforum) with an advisor who demands perfection yet doesn't believe in teaching, and who will go so far as to critique meeting minutes and emails - and not in a constructive manner. Her favorite response to anything I say is to shrug her shoulders, roll her eyes, and say "I don't know" like she can't even be bothered to humor me with a response. I feel dehumanized. She tells me that my fear of ambiguity is holding me back, but really it's my fear of what is going to set her off next.

 

I know I'm suffering from depression and anxiety. I've been having panic attacks, which feel like a heart attack but I never go to the emergency room because I know it is only anxiety. I've been in counseling, but it's not helping. I'm trying to schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist to get medication, but it's taking forever. I got in touch with them maybe two weeks ago and I still don't have an appointment scheduled. Every time the emotions overwhelm me and I break down, or I come home and curl up in bed and stare blankly at the wall, I wonder why the hell it's taking them so long.

 

My friends tell me to switch advisors, but I know from my attempts last semester that it isn't that easy. It's a political process, and I'm not sure I'm emotionally stable enough to go through with it. The worst part is, I don't know what I want anymore. I thought I wanted this. I love to learn, but grad school hasn't taught me anything. Sometimes I think it would be better to quit, move back home, get a 9-5 job so that I can have nights and weekends free, and if I didn't get along with my boss, well, so be it because he/she wouldn't control every aspect of my life... But would I regret leaving? Is this just the depression and anxiety talking?

 

The worst part is that the other students keep saying "find something you love and the criticisms won't matter." Like I should let myself be beaten down and treated like I'm less than human simply because I like my classes or I enjoy being a TA. It's a disgusting system, where abuse is accepted as a necessary evil to endure to get what you want. It shouldn't have to be like that and I don't think it is, for everyone. But I was unlucky enough to find a lab where it's the norm. I'm not sure what to do next. I want to tell my advisor I'm done, that I'm leaving at the end of the semester... But every time I get into a meeting with her I clam up and become timid and meek. I put on a smile when I go to class, when I TA, but it's so hard to keep functioning, living, moving forward. Any advice, grad café?

[SNPCracklePop]

I know how you feel a little all too well, and kudos to you for seeking counseling.  Let's start by putting the stats class in perspective.  Based on your tagline, I'm guessing this is your second semester into your first year.  Unless you're planning on applying to additional education after this (e.g. med school, law school), or your department has very strict policies, just focus on getting the B and moving on.  When you are further along in the program, those classes will be a blurred memory, and that they're really only there for credit requirements.  This experience is about the research and dissertation, not a letter grade for a first-year class.

 

If this is your first year, I would strongly suggest switching advisors while you're still fresh in the program.  Clearly she's not a good fit for you, and this program is about YOU, and it is preparation for YOUR career.  If you're feeling like this now, it is hard to believe that nothing will improve over the next few years.  You're not the first person to switch advisors/departments/universities (I personally know plenty!), and do not overworry about politics.  We're mere grad students, we are not worthy of academic political horror yet  You should feel comfortable, appropriately guided and supported while you go through this occasionally very discouraging process.

 

Take some me time to really think about what you want from all of this, here and your career afterwards.  There is nothing wrong with leaving if that's what is best for you.  Take care of yourself, and I wish you the best.

[Hopeful678]

Hi, your health comes first. You really need to be mentally and physically healthy in a PhD program. Sometimes it's better to leave if its not a good fit, you need a good mentor that you get along with and that fits with you. If it's making you ill to keep going, I wouldn't advise it. You don't want to kill yourself for a PhD. I'm sorry if this is not the news you wanted but I'm telling you the truth. On my campus 4 people have already committed suicide this semester alone. Please at least try to find a adviser that fits with you research wise and personality wise.

Best

Edited February 16, 2014 by Hopeful678

[Andean Pat]

I'm really sorry to read this!

 

I second both responses: your health comes first. Do not quit counselling, remember it is a process and it needs time. You need to think about several things and you need someone to guide you in doing that and not lose it. From what you've said, you have to answer big questions and make big decisions, like what do you want? Do you want to stay? Then switch advisors. do you want to leave? Then, what type of work do you want?

 

You have gone through these questions because you applied to grad school and you wrote a SOP. So go back to that and re read it. Do you still want it? 

 

Grad school is not about abuses and horrible life. Life is about being happy and doing what you love. It turns my stomach when I read in these forums that people and miserable and "well, this is what I signed up for". NO!!!! You did not signed up for being mistreated. If a professor does not want to teach you, then bye bye, pick another one. You cannot sustain this mental situation for five years. No one can, and no one should. 

 

All my strength from here, hope you get better and you can solve these problems, honestly! Mwaaaa

[nugget]

You've received some good advice here. Try not to lose your sense of perspective in the midst of all of this. This is one chapter of your life; it is not your entire life. You are bright and have a lot of potential in life. I encourage you to continue talking to your therapist and other people in your life, like family and/or friends, who can help you figure out what it is you want to do. Whether you decide to continue, find a new advisor, or quit, remember that you always have options in this situation and it is temporary. There are many different paths you can choose from to be happy and successful. I wish you well in choosing the right path to achieve your dreams.

Edited February 16, 2014 by jenste

[fuzzylogician]

Pretty_Penny, like others have said, your health should come first. You've already gotten some great advice about that. Please stay in counseling and try to remember that it could take time to get back to a place where you're feeling like yourself again. If possible, I think it may be a good idea to look into taking a temporary leave of absence for a semester. That would give you some time to really concentrate on getting better and also (importantly) to be away from your advisor. I want to stress that from the way you describe it, your advisor's behavior is NOT normal. I would encourage you to seek out ways of replacing her with someone else. I understand that it's complicated, but there is no way you could stay with her for your entire program and maintain your health -- and your health is SO much more important than a degree. I think some time away might help with several things - first and foremost, to distance yourself from the situation as I described. It might also help you put things in perspective and help you decide if you really want this degree. Coming back from a leave of absence to a new advisor might be easier than switching cold turkey, so it may allow everyone to save face and make the transition easier. Either way, though, I think you should talk to someone - department head or the DGS perhaps - about the need to find a new advisor. If there is one thing that is clear, it's that if you want to pursue this degree, you need to have a better advisor who can support you instead of damaging your health. 

[St Andrews Lynx]

But would I regret leaving? Is this just the depression and anxiety talking?

After reading your previous thread as well as this one...leaving sounds like a very sensible option. If you left now, ten months down the line I'm willing to wager that you would be saying to yourself: "Gosh, the one thing I regret about leaving that PhD program is that I didn't do it sooner."

 

This doesn't mean that you're unsuited to academia or grad school - the only thing this experience has shown is that you are unsuited to this particular advisor. She's simply a bad fit for you. 

 

You've got plenty of options. You might want to leave this program and re-apply to grad school in a couple of years (if that's still what you want). You might take a leave of absence to figure things out. Switching advisors might be easier if you identify someone who is willing to take you on and then go to your DGS & current advisor. 

[justastudent]

You deserve to see a psychiatrist immediately. Go in the office monday morning and wait. A good office will have an emergency drop in policy. There should be someone to see you or a promise of someone by 1 pm at the latest. If not tell them that you will be going to the er for an emergency consult. Bring someone with you as an advocate. Pack a lunch and bring something to distract you during the wait. Have your main concerns written down and don't leave until you have what u need. Prescriptions are good. This is not the time to make any decisions about your program. Now is the time to see a Dr. Email your Monday professors and let them know you'll be out tomorrow. Keep us posted. If this advice is overly directive and you don't feel as bad as you thought, then congrats. This will be your back up plan if things take a downturn. Otherwise, know that others out there are concerned. Be well dear one.

Edited February 16, 2014 by justastudent

[zugunruhe]

I totally get the feeling of being overwhelmed. My mental health has been suffering a lot because of the stress of an unrealistic workload (thanks to my advisor, who seems to keep forgetting that in addition to writing my proposal I am also taking classes) and every time I mention to my family how grueling it is working all the time (and I don't say that as the usual cliche phrase, I mean it very literally) I get some variation of the response "Well, you wanted to be in grad school"- with the unspoken but clear implication "so suck it up and quit whining". And I agree that it is strange that it's taking so long for the psychiatrist's office to get back to you, that is ridiculous. It definitely sounds like medication would help you but I also think you should keep going to counseling. Also, WTF on your advisor? She sounds awful and though I haven't been in grad school long, I know that isn't typical and you shouldn't have to deal with that. I don't know how it works in your program but I know someone in mine who just switched advisors. 

 

And last but not least, quit the program if things don't improve! It sounds like, like you said, you just got really unlucky with the situation you're in. It's not your fault you got stuck in the Auschwitz of grad school, and trying to stay in a program (or with an advisor) like that is for the sake of sticking it out is just not worth losing your mental health over. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by zugunruhe

[Queen of Kale]

It's not your fault that your advisor is a bad fit.  Just remember that.  I meet people in my program who feel guilty because of a bad advisor fit and so they stay in a bad situation trying to force it to work.  Sometimes you just have to move on.  It might mean a different advisor in the same program or it might mean a new program altogether.  

 

A good advisor makes all the difference in the world.  I currently have a 73 in a class but telling my advisor, and getting his advice (don't worry so much Queen & if you're overwhelmed drop the course because in the end they don't really matter) was a relief & not a burden. A good advisor will fit with your personality in a way that makes you more productive & anxiety is not productive.  So don't feel guilty about needing to make a change.

[Lisa44201]

Grad school is stressful, but the cost of a degree should not be your mental health. Hoping you're camped out at walk-in this morning to get some meds; please keep us posted. I would also speak with your Department Head about getting a new advisor, and be up front with that person about the toll this has taken on you; whether the process is political or not is irrelevant - it is beyond necessary at this point.

[PhDerp]

Pretty_Penny, I've read the responses and don't have much to contribute, but I want to ask: how are you doing now? Can you give us an update?

 

Strangers on the internet are worried for you!

[Pretty_Penny]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for all the responses. You all make really good points. I think you all hit the nail on the head - I feel guilty about wanting to switch and so I've been trying to make it work. I think the guilt stems from my advisor telling me that the problem is me. And when I'm feeling clear-headed I know that's not true, and I get a lot of external validation telling me that's not true. But when I'm down I'm internalizing everything she says and it's really affecting me.

 

I know my health comes first. I think what's holding me back now is just sheer terror at initiating the process of leaving. The thought of having that conversation with her is scary. I know she'll consider me a failure and probably guilt trip me. But the thing is, I know I don't owe her, or anyone at this school, anything. It's too bad I lose sight of that as soon as I enter a meeting with her. I would consider simply switching labs... When I originally applied there were a lot of professors I could see myself working with... But the experience has been so bad I almost want to just leave. Unfortunately, if I did leave, I have no idea what I would do.

 

As for the psychiatrist, the university I am at only provides short-term counseling so I have been looking for psychiatric services within the community, so maybe that is the problem. I am going to email the psychologist who runs my grad student group and see what he can do about helping me get the services I need. My advisor has been out of town (and I'm still panicking - sad, I know), and I really wanted to get in to see a psychiatrist before she returns next week. Thanks everyone for the concern and kind words! I will continue to update as anything changes.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Pretty_Penny

[knightrunner]

Hi Pretty_Penny,

 

I remember being in a similar situation as an undergraduate, which caused me to change majors into biological science.  The difference was that I didn't have a counselor because I was so depress that I wasn't thinking and nobody really knew what to do with me.  No program is worth mental destruction.  Once this whole ordeal with you changing advisors happen you will feel a great relief and a brighter light.  It can be hard to see that right now, but things will improve.  I had to admit it was hard cutting my losses changing majors and I always had that fear walking pass my ex-major department and the classrooms, but things improve overtime.  I never regretted leaving a program that could have caused me mental instability even though I could have gotten the degree.

[Vejas]

Hi Pretty_Penny, 

 

 

I've been struggling with very similar issues for a while now - I could have written your opening post. I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. 

 

Others have already said it but it's the truth - your health comes first and no degree is worth it. Don't be afraid to change supervisors or discontinue yours studies (whichever you choose to do) - it shouldn't be political. I doubt any school/programme would be happy to hear that their students are having such a hard time - unless of course you're unfortunate to be dealing with some truly horrible people. If you're afraid of talking to your supervisor, maybe you could contact your programme coordinator and ask her/him what the best course of action would be?

 

I'm currently doing a masters degree and when things got too hard and I realised I couldn't deal with this on my own anymore I contacted my programme supervisor and told him exactly what was going on. My department has been nothing short of amazing since then. They suggested I change my thesis project and told me it was completely fine to do so. I understand that a stand alone masters is a lot different than a PhD but my point is - do not be afraid to talk to people about your problems. Tell them you're seeking help - maybe they'll know other ways to find help? A lot of students go through these issues and your department might have experience in dealing with it. 

 

Btw, I'm always available for a chat if you're feeling like talking to somebody 

Edited February 20, 2014 by Vejas

[Pretty_Penny]

Hi all,

 

Just a quick update - I talked to my area coordinator today. She was very sympathetic and helpful. She offered to talk to my advisor for me and tell her I'm leaving the lab but I told her I should probably do it. Our interview weekend is this weekend, so I will probably email my advisor on Friday or Saturday to set up a meeting for Monday. I'm sure the conversation will be difficult to have. I plan on letting her know I feel bad about this and anxious about the position that I am leaving her in, but I need to do what's best for me. That I'm leaving the lab and that, ultimately, I feel this will be best for her as well since she is never happy with my performance. Hopefully it will be relatively painless. If anyone has any advice for how to handle this or how to deal with anxiety leading up to this, please let me know.

 

After that, I will provide the area coordinator with a summary of what I'm interested in. The area faculty will meet and decide if there is anyone here for me to work with. They will come back with one of two decisions: either there is another lab I can transfer into or they would recommend I reapply elsewhere to find a better fit. Even if there is another lab for me to transfer into, the choice will ultimately be mine as to whether or not I stay. It would probably almost be easier then for them to tell me there is no other lab that can take me, as then the decision would be made for me!

 

As for an update on seeing a psychiatrist. I FINALLY heard back from the community psychiatric provider I had contacted about 3 weeks ago. They wanted to schedule an appointment for me now, but there would still be a wait before I could get in. I decided to decline for the moment, as I have also been in touch with the leader of my group therapy sessions and he was going to get back to me ASAP about getting psychiatric care through the university. If I don't hear back from him by the end of the week I will be calling the community provider back and scheduling an appointment with them.

 

Thanks for all your help and concern!

[fuzzylogician]

If anyone has any advice for how to handle this or how to deal with anxiety leading up to this, please let me know.

 

Pretty_Penny, 

 

I'm glad to hear that you have sought help both from a therapist and from your school. I have two thoughts regarding the conversation you need to have with your advisor. 

 

(1) Only talk about your needs, your feelings, etc. It's very difficult to argue with someone about what they feel or think, but it's much easier to object if someone tells you what (they think) is best for you. Tell your advisor you are leaving because you feel that's what is best for you. Don't tell her it's better for her as well, and don't apologize for the situation that you are leaving her in, at least not initially. She may get upset and bring it up herself, in which case you can say you're sorry about that but you have to do what's right for you. If she is (perhaps unexpectedly) supportive of your decision, then you can tell her that you feel bad about it but -- again -- you need to take care of yourself first, and you think that this is a necessary step. If she asks you what the problem is, you can say that your interests have shifted and are no longer aligned with hers, or (if that's hard to pull off) that you feel that her advising style is not right for you. Try and keep the conversation blame free, regardless of how you might truly feel. It'll help her save face and keep your relationship as intact as possible. It's best for you not to make an enemy out of her, even if you plan on never interacting with her again. 

 

(2) Practice the conversation with someone you trust, a therapist or a friend. Plan and rehearse the first couple of sentences you want to say--it's possible that they will be the only ones that go according to the script, but either way it'll help you get started with the conversation and get the most important things off your chest right at the start. Also practice your reactions to things you anticipate she might say, or questions she might ask. If you need to, write these things down. I think it's totally legit to take out notes for such an important conversation and tell her that you want to make sure you say what's on your mind, and you find this to be a difficult conversation. 

 

Please keep us posted about your situation. I hope things continue to improve! 

[St Andrews Lynx]

I agree with everything Fuzzylogician advised. 

 

 I plan on letting her know I feel bad about this and anxious about the position that I am leaving her in, but I need to do what's best for me. That I'm leaving the lab and that, ultimately, I feel this will be best for her as well since she is never happy with my performance. Hopefully it will be relatively painless. If anyone has any advice for how to handle this or how to deal with anxiety leading up to this, please let me know.

I especially agree with leaving out the "and this will be best for her too" part. She sounds like the type of person who is never satisfied - so will probably not be satisfied with your decision to leave, either. 

 

Don't apologise too much. Avoid saying anything like "I'm sorry I let you down" or "I'm sorry we were a bad fit." Remember that it isn't your fault that she's such a difficult PI to work for, and you are not in the wrong for wanting to leave. I wouldn't even let on that you feel bad about this. Why should you? She is shortly to become your ex-PI, you don't owe her anything. 

 

She might lose her temper and say some nasty things. Ignore those words because they are just being said in surprise and anger, and don't really reflect on you at all. Make sure that in your email to her you explain that are intending to leave the program, so that your announcement does not come out of the blue for her. 

 

Best wishes - GradCafe is rooting for you!

[rising_star]

Pretty_Penny, I would contact the community provider and just go ahead and make an appointment, even if there is a wait. The university services are also likely to have a wait, so you might as well be on both lists. You can always cancel one or the other as needed. Better to have the appointment and not need it than need it and still be scrambling to get one a week from now.

[Lisa44201]

I would actually take your area coordinator up on her offer; alternatively, see if she can sit in on the meeting with you. There is no need to put yourself into an anxiety-provoking situation with your advisor, and I suggest that's counterproductive in terms of your own mental health. Additionally, if the area coordinator goes with you, you have a witness to the conversation. 

[Pretty_Penny]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for the advice. The meeting is tomorrow afternoon. I feel that this is unfortunate timing because it is our area interview weekend and she will be meeting with prospective students all day (and will probably only have 1/2 hour to meet with me). Moreover, there is a social function that evening that all students and faculty will attend. This is, however, the only time she would give me to meet. I had requested we talk Monday but she wanted to do it this week.

 

I didn't mention in the email that I was intending to leave her lab or the program, as this is not what I was advised in my meeting with the area coordinator. Now I am panicking that she will be taken completely be surprise (which seems impossible because I leave every meeting with her crying) and it will be unbearable. I have what I want to say typed up and other people have told me it is really good, but I'm scared to death and imagining all the worst possible scenarios. Ugh.

 

I wish I had taken the area coordinator up on her offer. Or at the very least asked her to attend. But because of the timing she probably wouldn't be able to anyways. Do you think I should cancel? That might just make her angrier. Ahhhhhhhhh I'm freaking out.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Pretty_Penny

[Lisa44201]

Send the coordinator an e-mail now; worst case scenario, she can't make it.

 

Remember that this is for you. Whether it makes her life easier or not, whether it makes her happier or not - not your problem. This is what you need to do for you.

[St Andrews Lynx]

On the positive side, if she's only got 30 minutes in her schedule to meet with you then the meeting isn't going to last that long and she is unlikely to drag it out. 

 

Is there a grad school friend or another senior PhD student in the group (someone who has been indirectly or directly supervising you) that you could bring along to the meeting? There is no reason why you have to go in there alone.

[Lisa44201]

There is no reason why you have to go in there alone.

... and many reasons why you shouldn't.

[fuzzylogician]

Good luck! Whatever happens, remember that it's 30 minutes and when it's done, you are free of your advisor. There are better and worse ways this could come about, but all of them are versions of a good scenario. I think it's safe to assume that you'll catch her off guard, that she'll be surprised by what you say, that she will react in inappropriate ways and perhaps yell at you and otherwise make you feel bad, that you'll cry and will indeed feel bad. BUT that last part sounds like a part of every meeting you have with her, and the former parts will ensure that this never happens again. I understand that you fear the situation, but I think you are brave for doing it and you should be very proud of yourself. Please do let us know how things turned out.