How dangerous exactly are these places?

[TheLuckyOne]

Hi guys, I am a junior this year, and I will apply for PhD programs next year. I have been researching about programs, and I have realized that some top institutes locate in notoriously dangerous and chaotic places. Specifically, the University of Chicago, Yale, UPenn, WashU, Johns Hopkins, Columbia and NYU. I am a girl and I plan to live off campus for my graduate study. Therefore, safety matters tremendously for me and my family. I was wondering how terrible are these places? Do their locations hugely affect the quality of students' life in these institutions? Should I rule these awesome programs out because of their locations? Thank you!

[bsharpe269]

I would never avoid applying to these locations because of safety. Big cities like these are as safe you make them... if you walk around alone at night with a huge purse or live in a sketchy neighborhood then of course you will have issues. If you live in an area with families and use general precautions like knowing the areas you are walking in then you are absolutely fine.

[kimmibeans]

I live in New York City, so I can talk about Columbia and NYU.

 

NYU is located in the West Village, which is a relatively safe area. It's mostly residential and largely populated with NYU students, so it is safer than some other areas of the city. It's also a huge tourist destination, so it is usually pretty crowded and there is a strong police presence in the area. Plus, NYU doesn't have a true campus, so university police are stationed throughout the area.

 

Columbia is way uptown, and while the area surrounding Columbia is okay, be careful stepping too far away from campus, especially if you are not familiar with the city. However, the area up there is lovely and as long as you watch where your going and pay attention to your surroundings you should be fine.

 

The key thing to remember about going to school in any city is that it is as safe as you make it. Always be aware of your surroundings and your valuables. Use bags that close at the top with a zipper or buckled flap and keep your eyes and ears open.

[juilletmercredi]

First of all, know that for graduate programs "off-campus" is a loose term.  What I think you mean is that you want to live in an apartment rather than a residence hall, but at most universities most graduate housing is apartment-style shares rather than a dorm-style place.  In some places (like Columbia, for example) it's really common for PhD students to live in university housing because it's the only affordable housing within walking distance of the university, but university housing is just like living in an off-campus apartment.  At other places (like NYU) virtually all the PhD students live in non-university housing because it's cheaper.

 

That said, though, there's nothing "notoriously dangerous" about Columbia's neighborhood.  I live here, and have lived and worked here for 6 years.  Columbia's located in Morningside Heights, which is a predominantly middle-class and student area frequently patrolled by Columbia public safety and NYPD, and lots of shops and restaurants, many of which are open 24 hours.  Some students live in Harlem but I have friends who live there and have stumbled drunk out of their apartments in the middle of the night and have never felt unsafe, and I'm a small woman.  And I used to live uptown in Washington Heights, which is another working-class area, and have come home at probably every hour of the morning and night in probably every state of inebriation and never felt unsafe.  I got to know my neighbors, and they were nice, and one gave me a going-away gift when I moved out.  So I'm not so sure that I agree with the advice about being careful to step too far from campus, as I think that will provide a very limited experience in one of the greatest cities on Earth.  Also, the only way to get familiar with the city is to walk around it a bit.

 

NYU's in an upper-middle-class neighborhood of New York (Greenwich Village) and it's generally safe around there.  I've sat in Washington Square Park in the middle of the night - not advised, but I didn't feel particularly unsafe, although it's not something you feel totally comfortable doing.  Parks in NYC after dark are just not a good look.  But I've been in the NYU area after dark and *shrug* it's pretty safe, although more deserted than my own neighborhoods (Morningside Heights and Wash Heights) after dark.

 

I've also spent a little bit of time in the Yale and Penn areas and never felt unsafe there, either. 

 

Whenever you live in a big city basically you just need common sense.  Don't flash expensive things, keep your wits about you, be aware of who's around you.  The advice about zipping your bag on top is good advice, but FWIW I walk around with my bag hanging half open all the time and have never been so much as pickpocketed.  Columbia also has an escort service so if you don't want to walk home alone Public Safety will send an officer or someone to walk with you. I think there's a persistent myth that large cities are dark, dangerous, gritty areas but it's just not true, especially not anymore.  New York is one of the safest large cities in the country, for example.  It affects your quality of life in other ways, though, like the fact that an average lunch can cost $15-20 or the fact that you can get every kind of food delivered to your apartment or the fact that there are sooooooo many things that sound way better to do than your school work, especially in the summer.

 

So in short, nooooo, you definitely should not rule out all urban universities simply because of their urbanicity.

Edited March 12, 2014 by juilletmercredi

[geographyrocks]

I'd say you should rule out those places only if you have no fit with the department or are interested in the schools solely because they're prestigious. 

 

The most dangerious part of Chicago, imo, are the taxi drivers.  Those guys are crazy!  The University of Chicago is situated in a very nice neighborhood and the transit system is awesome. 

[kittythrones]

Columbia & NYU are not dangerous at all lolz. I mean, you may meet some crazy people on the trains but that is everywhere. And also be aware of NYC taxi drivers. The most dangerous drivers in NYC are people who live outside NY and think that their driving style is reminiscent of "NY-style" driving that they see on tv. 

 

Yale - this school is in the CT suburbs.
WashU - is in Clayton, which is in the suburbs.

 

UPenn, Johns Hopkins = I am sorry but I have never been there. 

 

Please don't select your top choice based on safety but whether or not you think you will enjoy being there for 4 - 7 years. 

[Lisa44201]

I'd say you should rule out those places only if you have no fit with the department or are interested in the schools solely because they're prestigious. 

 

^^^^ THIS. Make sure your research interests line up.

 

Having said that, whether you end up in a city of several million residents, or a small town of 3,000 residents, self-defense classes are a good idea.

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Chicago > Baltimore > Philly >St. Louis > Manhattan (in order of most likely to get shot to least). 

[Icydubloon]

I read Chicago. Then I wondered how you were ordering them. Then I read the last part.

 

10/10 would read again

[legan]

On 3/12/2014 at 12:54 PM, kittythrones said:

 

Yale - this school is in the CT suburbs. 

 

 

This school is not in the CT suburbs.

 

It's in downtown New Haven. It's an extremely safe, well-lit, and fun area of the city, but by no stretch of the imagination is it "suburban".

The areas around Yale are really safe, but they do call it Gun Wavin' New Haven.

WashU is an underrated school and is in a safe part of St. Louis. The bad part of St. Louis is in Illinois which is far away from campus.

[victorydance]

I would think safety would be one of the last things to consider when picking grad schools. The chances of you being a victim of any crime outside of petty crimes is incredibly low, in any of these places.

[Crucial BBQ]

Hi guys, I am a junior this year, and I will apply for PhD programs next year. I have been researching about programs, and I have realized that some top institutes locate in notoriously dangerous and chaotic places. Specifically, the University of Chicago, Yale, UPenn, Johns Hopkins, Columbia and NYU. I am a girl and I plan to live off campus for my graduate study. Therefore, safety matters tremendously for me and my family. I was wondering how terrible are these places? Do their locations hugely affect the quality of students' life in these institutions? Should I rule these awesome programs out because of their locations? Thank you!

Out of the schools you listed, I am only familiar with Johns Hopkins.  All campus's are safe in and of themselves, however, what happens immediately off campus depends on which campus we are talking about.  Homewood is pretty much all-around cool and is in one of the safest parts of Baltimore City.  But, like all of Baltimore, you are never far from the ghetto. The medical campus and Bloomberg School of Public Health are, well, not in the greatest of locations.  The neighborhoods to the south of the medical campus/BSPH are nice (Fells Point is one of the best in Baltimore.  Butcher's Hill and Washington Hill are hit-or-miss but greatly gentrifying everyday.  Patterson Park is one of the best public parks in the U.S., and so on).  Everything to the west, north, and east are complete shiz holes.  I know people who either went to BSPH or are still going.  They all live[d] in Mt. Vernon, Fells Point, Charles Village, or by MICA. There are free shuttles that will take you campus and back. 

[BikeOrange]

I grew up around Chicago. I would definitely consider safety an issue for U Chicago. The campus itself is safe, but the area immediately surrounding campus is not so safe. I would definitely apply, but pay attention to the area when you are there for interview. You will be able to tell if its for you or not. 

 

Sorry, can't speak to the other places.

[RomulusAugustulus]

I'm sorry this is a late response but I have to say this: Literally NONE of these schools are in "notoriously dangerous and chaotic places". They're in cities. Are you just not used to cities? Yes there are dangerous sections to all of those cities (and most cities), but those schools are all in safe sections of their respective cities. Just make sure, when you actually get accepted and are ready to move, that you know where in the city to avoid. But no no no these universities are not in dangerous places. 

[Admissions Advice Online]

At all of these schools your will more than likely find an "Off-campus" housing option that will still be close enough to the university that you will be in what is class the "University bubble." These schools all have robust public safety programs designed to protect all students on and off campus. You should not worry at all. I went to Upenn  never felt safer- Admissions Advice Online 

[panicking]

Actually, at low crime area, you are safe even with while walking alone at night carrying a bag of money (in fact I lived in a small city and I had done that a number of time). The crime rate there is so low that pretty much the only way to witness one is to commit one. There are only a handful of crime over a year.

 

Sure, you may claim that you just need to use common sense to be safe. But think of it this way, are you willing to live 4-5 years in a place where you're forced to use your common sense everyday, or would you rather live in a place where you can get drunk at midnight carrying a bag of money alone through a dark alley and have not work out for years and are still safe? You should remember that grad school is probably very stressful so you might want some fun at night. You might also have to work all the way till the late hour on something and have to come home after it's dark. Since you probably will work alone on a lot of stuff, you won't be going home with anybody. And obviously, there is probably no time for work out. And you are unlikely to be able to afford a car either.

 

I just search online for crime stats, and I think the number collaborate on the ordering except for Manhattan given by Gnome (though I look for murder not shooting). But then again, these stats are for the whole city, while the region around the university is only a small portion of it. Luckily, Philly have a nice website where you can choose which area to look at (I draw a quad around the univ region and surrounds, and got >1000 crimes, mostly thief which distributed pretty evenly both inside and outside the univ, no murder); but have a hard time finding such website for other city.

 

Now all we said so far is for violent crime only. But when it come to financial crime, I do not think geography matter all that much.

[themmases]

Panicking, you are mistaken. If you read the thread, people who commented talked almost exclusively about the areas they know. They aren't deciding whether to live in those areas for years-- they do live there or have lived there.

 

A good friend of mine went to U of C and while, yes, she was forced-- forced! to use her common sense every day like the normal, intelligent woman she is, most of her stories are actually about crappy amenities that go with being in a neighborhood that is stereotyped as bad (i.e. segregation in Chicago is alive and all too well), or go with being a student. She had a bad apartment with a careless landlord. When she visits friends in Hyde Park, she has to call a cab because none will be patrolling. It's not well connected to the rest of the city by public transportation.

 

Personally I don't plan to "get drunk at midnight carrying a bag of money alone through a dark alley and have not work out for years," because I'm a normal adult who doesn't experience the use of common sense as a huge burden. The scenario you're describing doesn't even sound fun, and I say that as a person whose apartment is best approached through a dark alley. My dumb 19-year-old friends and I were smart enough to walk each other home at night, or at least take lighted streets and check in by text, in the notorious hellmouth of Urbana, IL. It can certainly be expected of a grown adult in Chicago.

[panicking]

Panicking, you are mistaken. If you read the thread, people who commented talked almost exclusively about the areas they know. They aren't deciding whether to live in those areas for years-- they do live there or have lived there.

 

I know many people who replied lived there. My response was toward the original poster (who is planning to go there), since many people are essentially giving advice to her that it's safe if you use common sense. My response is that do you want to have to deal with such issue in the first place.

 

Maybe it's just where I lived, a small city, that make me feel those big cities are rather restrictive. I can walk home alone at night safely. I can carry bag of money. I don't get drunk, but my friends frequently did and got home alone just fine. If I run out for some quick errand, I don't even bother locking the door. I can help random people on the street. It's the kind of freedom I would certainly miss if I get accepted into any of the programmes I want.

I have been to Philly and NY to visit relative. I can tell that it's much different there. People have to lock door carefully. When my relative friends went out for drink (without car naturally), they have to escort each other back, and still some time people would just have to stay over, because it's not safe just walking out at night. When a poor guy as our group to buy food for him, I was told to not do so, because it might be a trap. So that's a lack of freedom. Basically, would you rather go to a place when you can relax and nothing bad will happen, or a place when you have to stay sharp everyday? Sure, using common sense (ie. figuring what you should do) is not a huge burden, but following it (ie. refrain from doing certain thing) can feel rather restrictive.

[victorydance]

Freedom goes both ways. You may say that living in big cities is more restrictive, however big cities provide way more opportunities for leisure and job opportunities than smaller towns so I would argue that it's small towns that are more 'restrictive.'

 

The difference between small town and big city is not as wide as you believe. And the fact that you have no experience living in one is probably why you have this perception.

 

First of all, half of safety is 'fear.' If you are afraid of things, places seem a lot more dangerous than they are. What's the worst thing that is honestly going to happen to you? That you get robbed at knife/gun point? Even then, the chances are extremely low and the outcome is you are out 20 or 40 bucks. You could get raped? I would imagine the rape stats are probably pretty similar in rural vs. city atmospheres. The chances of any serious crime, ie. murder, happening to you randomly are slim to none.

 

When you learn to 'let go' you can adjust rather easily.

 

That being said, you need to take precautions. Some simple ones:

 

-don't walk in shady neighbourhoods with jewellery showing.

-don't be an idiot and look like you don't know where you are, ie. walk around confidently.

-keep an eye out for your surroundings

 

You follow those simple rules and the chances of anything happening to you are slim to none. I've lived in places like Bogota, Rio de Janeiro and Mexico City for the past 5 years and I have been robbed a grand total of 1 time. And I have been in some damn sketchy places and weird situations during that time period. The world isn't as scary as you think it is.

[zipykido]

This school is not in the CT suburbs.

 

It's in downtown New Haven. It's an extremely safe, well-lit, and fun area of the city, but by no stretch of the imagination is it "suburban".

 

The areas around Yale are really safe, but they do call it Gun Wavin' New Haven.

 

I lived in New Haven for two years I would not call it extremely safe. While I never was physically threatened you would constantly get emails about security alerts. Also it depends on where you live, most of the professors and doctors live not in New Haven since the school system sucks, but the area around the med school and immediately outside of the Yale bubble were not safe. 

[themmases]

Yeah, no. Again, I live in Chicago and you do not have to be "constantly sharp" all the time, you just have to not act dumb. It's really not that much of an effort.

 

I give food and money to people on the street all the time, and it has never been a "trap"-- what does that even mean? The worst things that ever happened to me was that one person hugged me and one person kissed my hand. Your friends are ignorant and mean if they told you that feeding hungry, homeless people is dangerous. It's not.

 

Again, since I've lived here for years I walk home alone, in the dark, all the time. I stay over at people's places sometimes too-- because it's late and sometimes I want to. I have no idea what you mean by carrying "a bag of money" with you-- are you carrying a big sack with a $ sign on it like a cartoon bank robber? If so, people here will probably assume you're mentally ill and keep their distance. I have a purse big enough to double as a book bag and I carry it around, open at the top, at all hours of the day and night-- everyone does. I've never been robbed. And since I love my home enough to be pretty insulted by your ignorance, I can assure you it's not at all tiring to live here. It is tiring to constantly explain to ignorant people that I don't live in some chaotic nightmare of urban violence.

[panicking]

No I'm not saying it's some sort of chaotic night of urban violence. An analogy is like this: living in a small town is like owning a pet rat, but a big city like yours is like owning a pet boa constrictor. Sure, if you are careful, no harms would come to you from owning a boa constrictor. And even if you are not, usually nothing bad happen either. But occasionally, the situation is just right and suddenly you're dead. If you own a pet rat, the worse would happen is the rat die. Would you rather have a pet boa constrictor or a pet rat?

 

Yeah, no. Again, I live in Chicago and you do not have to be "constantly sharp" all the time, you just have to not act dumb. It's really not that much of an effort.

 

"trap"-- what does that even mean?

what you mean by carrying "a bag of money" with you

Here are some of the precautions they warned me to take:

-If someone ask you to buy food for them at a nearby food place, they are luring you through an empty place to rob you.

-Do not use ATM to withdraw money inpublic place, people will know you are carrying bag of money, follow you to rob you.

-Do not make eye contact with youngster, they will think you are provoking them and beat you.

-If a beggar as for money, they are just trying to figure out where you put your money to pickpocket you.

-Do not come in close proximity to youngster, they will bump into you and claim that you hurt them, to beat you.

etc.

Of course, this is Philly and NY, I can't say much for Chicago, but considering the similar murder rate, it's probably just as violent.

 

Again, since I've lived here for years I walk home alone, in the dark, all the time. I stay over at people's places sometimes too-- because it's late and sometimes I want to.

 

And since I love my home enough to be pretty insulted by your ignorance, I can assure you it's not at all tiring to live here. It is tiring to constantly explain to ignorant people that I don't live in some chaotic nightmare of urban violence.

Geez, I don't know. Chicago is a big place, perhaps there are part that's super violent, and there are part where you are safe if you are careful. Those headline sure don't help matter: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/18/fbi-chicago-passes-new-york-as-murder-capital-of-u-s/ for Chicago, and this is for Philly, which make the nonhomogenous aspect clearer http://www.philly.com/philly/news/159543995.html

Maybe you just happen to live in good place. Maybe you're used to it and thus have never noticed. But from my point of view, in the place where I lived, the thought of "if I go here, I might get rob, so better not" have never come to my mind, as in, it's not even a concern, so big city can be quite tiring.

 

 

Freedom goes both ways. You may say that living in big cities is more restrictive, however big cities provide way more opportunities for leisure and job opportunities than smaller towns so I would argue that it's small towns that are more 'restrictive.'

 

The difference between small town and big city is not as wide as you believe. And the fact that you have no experience living in one is probably why you have this perception.

 

First of all, half of safety is 'fear.' If you are afraid of things, places seem a lot more dangerous than they are. What's the worst thing that is honestly going to happen to you? That you get robbed at knife/gun point? Even then, the chances are extremely low and the outcome is you are out 20 or 40 bucks. You could get raped? I would imagine the rape stats are probably pretty similar in rural vs. city atmospheres. The chances of any serious crime, ie. murder, happening to you randomly are slim to none.

Considering that this is about going to that city for PhD, I would consider leisure and job opportunity issue irrelevant. The only question is whether the programmes there is good enough to worth the risk.

My main worry is personal harm of course. I would rather not get robbed at all, because who know maybe they would simply shoot me anyway. Perhaps I might accidentally witness a murder and get killed so that no witness will live. Or simply getting stuck in a middle of a drive by shooting. Or get revenge for imagined slight, such as say talking to someone who have a rather jealous love partner. You might argue they could have happened anywhere, but I think that those with concentrated gang members and a violent culture would be more prone to such a thing. Or perhaps just a place where guns are easily available.

Edited March 29, 2014 by panicking

[victorydance]

You are just straight up paranoid. You have little life experience and it has completely distorted your perceptions. 

[St Andrews Lynx]

I've been on and around the UPenn campus a lot...and it ain't dangerous. 10 or 20 years ago "West Philly" was a really rough area - now gentrification is spreading West from University City (where Penn and Drexel are located) into the residential areas.

 

A personal piece of safety advice. If you're walking by yourself late at night, don't talk on your cell phone or listen to music. Firstly, because a smartphone is something valuable that a mugger will want to steal. Secondly, because you aren't remaining aware of your surroundings when you're talking/listening into the phone. That makes it easier for somebody to sneak up on you, and you won't realise you're being approached until it's too late. From what I've seen of the reported muggings in my area - they usually happen late at night in areas that don't have heavy traffic, and the report usually begins with the line "The victim was on their cell phone when..."

 

Getting shot is unlikely. Simply because the consequences of murdering somebody are a lot more severe than mugging them (especially for the amount of money/valuables that the average person would have on them - i.e, not much) and I think most muggers appreciate that. 

[perpetuavix]

Here are some of the precautions they warned me to take:

-If someone ask you to buy food for them at a nearby food place, they are luring you through an empty place to rob you.

-Do not use ATM to withdraw money inpublic place, people will know you are carrying bag of money, follow you to rob you.

-Do not make eye contact with youngster, they will think you are provoking them and beat you.

-If a beggar as for money, they are just trying to figure out where you put your money to pickpocket you.

-Do not come in close proximity to youngster, they will bump into you and claim that you hurt them, to beat you.

etc.

Of course, this is Philly and NY, I can't say much for Chicago, but considering the similar murder rate, it's probably just as violent.

 

This sounds more like the advice that people receive before they go to the slums of Brazil.

Your.... advice about 'youngsters' is particularly hilarious. I used to teach in two different NYC schools (one quite good, and one pretty bad) and I cannot imagine my students beating up some rando on the street for looking at them, even at the bad school. I know they get in fights, but it's with other kids from their neighborhood, and they generally try and hide it from adults. But, basically, teenagers don't give a shit about adults unless you give them a reason to. They aren't going to beat you up for looking at them or bumping into them, and you're a silly, silly person if you think so.