Fall 2018 Applicants

[astroid88]

Finally decided on how to divide my up my senior thesis for my writing sample. I've decided I'm going submit my introduction (10 pages), middle body chapter (13 pages), and conclusion (2). I was a bit worried about submitting an introduction that long, but I decided I really want to show my readers how my project fits into the current historiography on the subject. I also think it is a skill they will be looking for.  The middle section is where they will get to see my ability to use primary sources and my French level (all the sources in this section are in French), and finally a quick conclusion to sum it all up. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by astroid88

[Sigaba]

2 hours ago, astroid88 said:

Finally decided on how to divide my up my senior thesis for my writing sample. I've decided I'm going submit my introduction (10 pages), middle body chapter (13 pages), and conclusion (2). I was a bit worried about submitting an introduction that long, but I decided I really want to show my readers how my project fits into the current historiography on the subject. I also think it is a skill they will be looking for.  The middle section is where they will get to see my ability to use primary sources and my French level (all the sources in this section are in French), and finally a quick conclusion to sum it all up. 

FWIW, I agree that your writing sample may be top heavy.

Are there opportunities to take some elements of the historiographical discussion out of your introduction and integrate them into the middle? What follows is a rough sketch of what I'm proposing.

• Paragraphs describing an event E or a dynamic D.
• Paragraph summarizing existing interpretations. (Thus far, historians studying X have fallen into one or more categories...)
• Transition. (However, these interpretations overlook [A, B, C] and therefore merit (slight/significant) reinterpretation.)
• Paragraph with your analysis of E or D.
• Transition. (The same factors that shaped E or D, played a less/more significant / different role in ...)

[astroid88]

2 hours ago, Sigaba said:

FWIW, I agree that your writing sample may be top heavy.

Are there opportunities to take some elements of the historiographical discussion out of your introduction and integrate them into the middle? What follows is a rough sketch of what I'm proposing.

• Paragraphs describing an event E or a dynamic D.
• Paragraph summarizing existing interpretations. (Thus far, historians studying X have fallen into one or more categories...)
• Transition. (However, these interpretations overlook [A, B, C] and therefore merit (slight/significant) reinterpretation.)
• Paragraph with your analysis of E or D.
• Transition. (The same factors that shaped E or D, played a less/more significant / different role in ...)

Eh, I'm wary of doing that mostly because of time constraints. I have two weeks left, and I still need to edit other sections. Plus, I still need to write one PS.

I feel the historiography should be concentrated at the intro (as opposed to interwoven) in order to understand what happens later. Basically, it answers the "why should this paper be written?" question.

Unless being top heavy might be considered a deal breaker in some way, I can't see myself putting in time for that change. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by astroid88

[fortsibut]

1. Have you received especial information from professors and graduate students at your current school?

Not particularly.  I'm doing my MA in a combined degree program where I finished up my BS last spring and the majority of my thesis work this summer, but took an extension on finishing up the thesis because I still had to do a few more interviews and track down some elusive info.  This resulted in a situation where I haven't been on campus at all this fall, and contact with my thesis advisers and other profs to whom I'm kind of close has been limited to my thesis project particulars.  I definitely plan to ask a couple of them to look over my SOP when I have a polished copy and I'll probably ask if any of them know profs in the programs to which I'm applying.

2. How have your attempts to establish rapport with potential POIs worked and not worked?

I haven't made contact yet, although I've identified POIs and downloaded 3-4 articles by each in order to familiarize myself with their work.  Planning to do the reading/note taking on all that while visiting family over Thanksgiving (as I'll have a week there with not much else to do when I'm not socializing) and make contact immediately after that trip. 

Have you been welcomed warmly as a prospective graduate student?

N/A
Have you been given mixed messages?

N/A

What is your "to do" list and schedule for the rest of the current term?

-Finish and defend my MA thesis

-Write SOP, get other documentation together

-Get apps in (Michigan State is due December 15th, so that'll be tight, but I have a bit more breathing room for the other three schools [due January])

How are you balancing your current responsibilities with your applications?

Not particularly well so far, I'm afraid.  I'm finishing up my MA thesis right now, which I'll probably be defending early-mid December.  Now that the GRE and the online course I was teaching are over I can focus on this on my application, but I'm pretty stressed about everything.  Fortunately my parents invited me to move home for the year rent-free while I get these applications in and do whatever grunt work I need to do between when the apps go in and school starts in the fall, assuming that I'm fortunate enough to get accepted somewhere.

I gotta admit, I'm stressing.  I did better than I expected on the verbal portion of the GRE, have a great undergrad GPA, second language, have T/A'd as well as designed and taught an upper-division course as a MA student, have a couple of conference presentations (small conferences), and have a few other things going for me, but there's so much left to do and I'm afraid that I won't be able to get everything polished enough before submission.

I'm also worried that I'm missing some programs that would be a good match for me.  I feel like I vetted programs pretty well, but there's always that fear that I missed something.  I was planning to apply to Michigan and Northwestern in addition to the schools I chose (both fit very well with my research interests), but there was just no way to get everything done by their December 1st deadlines.  I'll definitely add them in if I have to go through a second application cycle.

Edited November 18, 2017 by fortsibut

[Tigla]

@astroid88 I would agree with Sigaba here. I had to do something very similar for one of my universities. I completely cut out the historiography section and summed it up very broadly in a paragraph. I understand that our writing is our babies, but we need to remember that these are professional historians on the ADCOM. Also, they have access to all of our potential advisors. If they want to check that our work is correct/fits into the historiography, the ADCOM can go and ask one of our potential advisors.

More importantly, though, our writing samples need to convey a sense of knowledge, logic, and coherency. By overemphasizing the historiography section, you are pulling away critical pages from your main body and conclusion. Both of which will demonstrate language skills, logic and reasoning skills, and your style of writing. Granted, you could also use the historiography section to complete this task. However, unless you are planning on getting a degree in the history of history/historiography, then I highly suggest finding a colleague to do some brutal and honest cuts for you. It will suck, especially so close to the deadlines, but I truly believe in reducing historiography before your main body portions. Best of luck with your applications!

[lordtiandao]

Have you received especially information from professors and graduate students at your current school?

• Nothing particularly noteworthy. I did receive advice specifically for Princeton (since it's a school both my supervisor and I believe is a good fit for me). He told me that Princeton and the IAS attracts a lot of visiting scholars and speakers, which I hadn't considered before, so I wrote that into my SOP as why I believe Princeton was a good place for me to study.

Have you received information that is at odds with the recommendations provided here?

• Yes. I was told by a member here that any unpublished paper should be put under "Works in Progress." My supervisor looked at CV and criticized me for it. He told me any paper that has been sent out for review is no longer considered a working paper and should be listed under "Publications" with a notation that it is under review.

How have your attempts to establish rapport with potential POIs worked and not worked?

• I'm applying to nine schools and sent out e-mails to all nine. Five professors have gotten back to me with all very positive responses. One told me to ask him questions if I had any and that he would introduce me to some current graduate students at his program, but he never replied to my second e-mail. Two have shown serious interest in my work and strongly encouraged me to apply to work with them. One of the two has also offered to Skype with me, and I'm still waiting for his response. I found that it was a good idea to send them a CV, since both of them made it clear that they've looked at it and that they considered me a strong applicant.

What is your "to do" list and schedule for the rest of the current term?

• Revise my paper based on reviewer comments and use it as a writing sample, then resubmit.
• Go over SOP and PS one more time by deadline.
• Send out applications by deadline.
• Apply for a conference.
• Continue writing my thesis.

How are you balancing your current responsibilities with your applications?

I'm doing alright. I've already sent out one application since I needed to get the application in before I could send transcripts and GRE scores. I've already finished most of the SOPs. I wrote two versions for my two top choice schools which I'm using as a basic template for all other programs. I usually devote one day specifically to applications and the rest of the time I work on my own stuff. I just need to make sure all my recommenders remember to send in their letters by the deadline.

Edited November 18, 2017 by lordtiandao
Grammar

[gsc]

2 hours ago, lordtiandao said:

Have you received especially information from professors and graduate students at your current school?

• Nothing particularly noteworthy. I did receive advice specifically for Princeton (since it's a school both my supervisor and I believe is a good fit for me). He told me that Princeton and the IAS attracts a lot of visiting scholars and speakers, which I hadn't considered before, so I wrote that into my SOP as why I believe Princeton was a good place for me to study.

Related to this point, you might also mention the IUDC — inter-university doctoral consortium. It lets you take doctoral classes at other schools in the Northeast Corridor, including Columbia, CUNY, NYU, & Rutgers. https://gradschool.princeton.edu/academics/partnerships-exchanges-and-cross-registration/iudc 

[astroid88]

7 hours ago, Tigla said:

@astroid88 I would agree with Sigaba here. I had to do something very similar for one of my universities. I completely cut out the historiography section and summed it up very broadly in a paragraph. I understand that our writing is our babies, but we need to remember that these are professional historians on the ADCOM. Also, they have access to all of our potential advisors. If they want to check that our work is correct/fits into the historiography, the ADCOM can go and ask one of our potential advisors.

More importantly, though, our writing samples need to convey a sense of knowledge, logic, and coherency. By overemphasizing the historiography section, you are pulling away critical pages from your main body and conclusion. Both of which will demonstrate language skills, logic and reasoning skills, and your style of writing. Granted, you could also use the historiography section to complete this task. However, unless you are planning on getting a degree in the history of history/historiography, then I highly suggest finding a colleague to do some brutal and honest cuts for you. It will suck, especially so close to the deadlines, but I truly believe in reducing historiography before your main body portions. Best of luck with your applications!

By moving some information into the abstract (which is not counted in the page count), I've already managed to cut down the introduction to 7 pages. I can't see it going much further, as the introduction doesn't just have historiography. It also has relevant historical context, definitions, and, of course, my thesis statement. 

That being said, how does a 1 page conclusion sound? Is that unheard of? That would give me 17 pages of main body content (25-8=17). 

[Sigaba]

6 minutes ago, astroid88 said:

By moving some information into the abstract (which is not counted in the page count), I've already managed to cut down the introduction to 7 pages. I can't see it going much further, as the introduction doesn't just have historiography. It also has relevant historical context, definitions, and, of course, my thesis statement. 

That being said, how does a 1 page conclusion sound? Is that unheard of? That would give me 17 pages of main body content (25-8=17). 

I recommend a longer conclusion. A longer conclusion will allow you to show how well you can pivot from a specific topic to larger / broader issues. Demonstrating this skill may be pivotal as your intended emphasis differs somewhat from the emphasis of your WS.

IRT the introduction, I would try very hard to it to five pages. Next year, you'll be writing review essays that summarize vibrant fields of debate into paragraphs. You will sit in seminars in which professors run through reading lists, summarizing 500-800 books in one sentence. You will spend hours in library stacks, skimming/reading selectively through books for their core arguments. There is no time like the present to work on this skill and no better opportunity to show readers that you can think and write like a historian.

I understand that this recommendation may cause anxiety. As @Tigla points out, one becomes attached to one's writing. However, as a very accomplished professor commented on my writing, "sometimes less is more." 

[Sigaba]

2 hours ago, gsc said:

Related to this point, you might also mention the IUDC — inter-university doctoral consortium. It lets you take doctoral classes at other schools in the Northeast Corridor, including Columbia, CUNY, NYU, & Rutgers. https://gradschool.princeton.edu/academics/partnerships-exchanges-and-cross-registration/iudc 

I have done a poor job this application season pointing out such programs to aspiring graduate students.

I would add to @gsc's recommendation a suggestion that one perform some due diligence before putting eggs into an inter-university basket. Just because two institutions have a relationship that enables cross pollination, it doesn't mean that worker bees can make honey where ever they like. Different hives will have different priorities and sensibilities. (Don't worry, I'm not going to drone on too long here.)

In addition to contacting departments about the specifics of such programs, look at the works of the historians you envision on your committees. Do you see evidence of collaboration, collegiality, and genuine respect? Or are you going to be bouncing back and forth while cross town rivals use you as a ping pong ball? 

[Assotto]

6 hours ago, Sigaba said:

I have done a poor job this application season pointing out such programs to aspiring graduate students.

I would add to @gsc's recommendation a suggestion that one perform some due diligence before putting eggs into an inter-university basket. Just because two institutions have a relationship that enables cross pollination, it doesn't mean that worker bees can make honey where ever they like. Different hives will have different priorities and sensibilities. (Don't worry, I'm not going to drone on too long here.)

In addition to contacting departments about the specifics of such programs, look at the works of the historians you envision on your committees. Do you see evidence of collaboration, collegiality, and genuine respect? Or are you going to be bouncing back and forth while cross town rivals use you as a ping pong ball? 

Adding to this. Although these inter-university programs exist, some advisors and programs are actually resistant to the idea for their own reasons. At my university (which is in the Exchange Scholar Program), it's unspoken that participation in these inter-university programs could raise suspicions about a student's commitment to the particular intellectual orientation offered by our department. Of course, everything in academia is political. Some professors can read this as you not valuing the faculty in your program or as something that might delay your progress, etc.

In other words, when it comes to these programs, you might have to make a much stronger case as to why you should leave your department (albeit temporarily) other than simply just being able to.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Assotto

[gsc]

Fair points. I agree that if you frame it as "the IUDC will let me take classes with Professor X at School Y," you will just raise the question of well, why aren't you just applying to school Y to work with professor X? No school wants to feel that you're using them as a discount version of another school.

But I think writing "School Z is part of a broad intellectual community, as evidenced by its partnerships with schools X and Q. Being able to learn from and participate in this community will add to my research on subject M/ my growth as a scholar/ etc" is fairly innocuous.

In my experience, inter-doctoral programs have always been held up as positive selling points — "come to our institution and you'll have access to 5x more scholars!" 

[lordtiandao]

10 hours ago, gsc said:

Related to this point, you might also mention the IUDC — inter-university doctoral consortium. It lets you take doctoral classes at other schools in the Northeast Corridor, including Columbia, CUNY, NYU, & Rutgers. https://gradschool.princeton.edu/academics/partnerships-exchanges-and-cross-registration/iudc 

This is a good point too. I'll see if I can work it into the SOP.

[TMP]

4 hours ago, lordtiandao said:

This is a good point too. I'll see if I can work it into the SOP.

I'll add to what @Sigaba and @Assotto said, I'd wade carefully.  This may work at a place like NYU and Princeton where students are on full fellowships with no work obligations as Rutgers and others have.  I looked into this briefly for the Midwest version and I learned that my funding wasn't really allow me to take classes for a semester elsewhere.  You'll have to do research on the financial aspects of doing this.

Unless you are dead, dead serious about going elsewhere for a semester/year to study with another department/professor during your coursework years when you should be building foundational relationships with your department's faculty for committees, I'd advise against pursuing it.

[Calgacus]

9 hours ago, TMP said:

I'll add to what @Sigaba and @Assotto said, I'd wade carefully.  This may work at a place like NYU and Princeton where students are on full fellowships with no work obligations as Rutgers and others have.  I looked into this briefly for the Midwest version and I learned that my funding wasn't really allow me to take classes for a semester elsewhere.  You'll have to do research on the financial aspects of doing this.

Unless you are dead, dead serious about going elsewhere for a semester/year to study with another department/professor during your coursework years when you should be building foundational relationships with your department's faculty for committees, I'd advise against pursuing it.

Perhaps the difference about the IUDC compared to the Midwest Big 10 equivalent is that all the participating schools are within 60-90 minutes of each other. You don't go elsewhere for a prolonged amount of time, you take the train once a week to whichever institution the class is at and then return to your home institution. I'm a bit surprised by some of the negative/wary remarks about this type of thing. I can't speak to the ones in the Midwest, California, or the UNC-Duke-NC State one, but this particular consortium is often held up as one of the most valuable and marketable aspects of these Northeast programs. I haven't heard of anyone downplaying the utility of it to prospective or current students, whether for departmental political reasons or otherwise. And when we pitch it at recruitment to students who have gotten into one of the other consortium schools, it's clear that those institutions are pushing its value as well (against non-consortium schools). It's a unique and useful program for exploring different intellectual perspectives and cultures, as well as offering a nice starting point when students in the Northeast corridor are looking for outside readers. 

That said, I second @gsc's comments about how to tactfully highlight the values of something like this in an application without making it sound like you should actually just be applying to the other schools. You want to emphasize the general intellectual opportunities that a consortium provides, rather than going on about specific professors from other institutions you want to work with.

[Assotto]

57 minutes ago, Calgacus said:

Perhaps the difference about the IUDC compared to the Midwest Big 10 equivalent is that all the participating schools are within 60-90 minutes of each other. You don't go elsewhere for a prolonged amount of time, you take the train once a week to whichever institution the class is at and then return to your home institution. I'm a bit surprised by some of the negative/wary remarks about this type of thing. I can't speak to the ones in the Midwest, California, or the UNC-Duke-NC State one, but this particular consortium is often held up as one of the most valuable and marketable aspects of these Northeast programs. I haven't heard of anyone downplaying the utility of it to prospective or current students, whether for departmental political reasons or otherwise. And when we pitch it at recruitment to students who have gotten into one of the other consortium schools, it's clear that those institutions are pushing its value as well (against non-consortium schools). It's a unique and useful program for exploring different intellectual perspectives and cultures, as well as offering a nice starting point when students in the Northeast corridor are looking for outside readers. 

That said, I second @gsc's comments about how to tactfully highlight the values of something like this in an application without making it sound like you should actually just be applying to the other schools. You want to emphasize the general intellectual opportunities that a consortium provides, rather than going on about specific professors from other institutions you want to work with.

I was initially surprised at the negative reaction students got not from professors, but from administrative assistants that spoke on behalf of the professors who are suspicious of students eager to study at another school. The suspicion does not come from wanting to stifle the intellectual growth of students, but there are many political, administrative, and financial hurdles that must be worked out which does not always work to the benefit of the student. Working with one department is already a headache, working with two is a migraine. Of course, this is department specific, so it may very well may be that you will have a more positive experience expressing interest in these programs.

IMHO, mentioning inter-university programs in the SOP could be perceived as presumptuous, distracting, and perhaps not the best use of space. Above all things, the SOP is meant to articulate the intellectual fit between the student, faculty expertise in the department, and resources at the institution. This can be expressed in numerous ways (identifying specific professors you want to work with, ability to access archives held only at that institution, close proximity to fieldwork sites, etc.) The key is to really emphasize resources within the department that foreground it as the first and foremost place that is best suited for you and your scholarly interests. Do not leave any indication that would cause a professor to question your intent to apply.

Once you get in, then it is a bit safer to express interest in studying at a consortium university. 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Assotto

[dr. t]

1 hour ago, Assotto said:

IMHO, mentioning inter-university programs in the SOP could be perceived as presumptuous, distracting, and perhaps not the best use of space. Above all things, the SOP is meant to articulate the intellectual fit between the student, faculty expertise in the department, and resources at the institution

Yes, exactly. Most history programs don't generally like their students taking classes in other departments, never mind schools. Mentioning that you would like to do work elsewhere does not encourage confidence in your argument that you fit well at the institution in question.

[Account6567]

Generally speaking, how long is the statement of purpose supposed to be?

[Tigla]

2 hours ago, Account6567 said:

Generally speaking, how long is the statement of purpose supposed to be?

Typically between 500-1000 words. You need to check with the university for their required length.

[Account6567]

13 hours ago, Tigla said:

Typically between 500-1000 words. You need to check with the university for their required length.

Thanks! I just ask because I've seen a few that don't seem to mention a specific limit, and then there was also one that said up to 2,500 words, which made me question whether I should be submitting more than the 1,000 word version I had prepared.

[OHSP]

1 hour ago, Account6567 said:

Thanks! I just ask because I've seen a few that don't seem to mention a specific limit, and then there was also one that said up to 2,500 words, which made me question whether I should be submitting more than the 1,000 word version I had prepared.

2500 sounds atypical to me--I applied to ~8 schools last year and the longest statement was 1200 words.

[ltr317]

4 hours ago, Account6567 said:

Thanks! I just ask because I've seen a few that don't seem to mention a specific limit, and then there was also one that said up to 2,500 words, which made me question whether I should be submitting more than the 1,000 word version I had prepared.

I originally wanted to apply to about 15 programs and while some don't have a specified limit, no school wanted more than two pages, single-spaced (approx. 1,000 words).  I'm curious, which program allows up to 2,500 words?

[lordtiandao]

1 hour ago, ltr317 said:

I originally wanted to apply to about 15 programs and while some don't have a specified limit, no school wanted more than two pages, single-spaced (approx. 1,000 words).  I'm curious, which program allows up to 2,500 words?

Chicago. 

[Account6567]

5 hours ago, ltr317 said:

I originally wanted to apply to about 15 programs and while some don't have a specified limit, no school wanted more than two pages, single-spaced (approx. 1,000 words).  I'm curious, which program allows up to 2,500 words?

Not 100% sure but Chicago's one of the schools I'm applying to, so it was probably that one like the person above said.

[narple]

Seeking advice:

I am really struggling to cut down my thesis to an appropriate writing sample length. It feels so choppy. Can I leave out an entire section? Or should I try to fit in a bit of each? I leave descriptions in brackets of what I cut, but it is just not pleasant to read. Any advice is appreciated.