renea

So I'm curious to hear from some people who have already attended/are currently deciding on programs to apply to- how much did location factor into your decision? (there is a rant below so feel free to skip that and just answer if it's too much reading) Backstory: I'm originally from Texas. I went to undergrad about 2/3 hours away from where I grew up and loved the city I was in. Fastforward to MA applications and location didn't factor in at all for me. After asking for recommendations of programs that fit my interests I realized the closest program I was applying to was Oklahoma. I didn't necessarily avoid being close to home, I just didn't find any schools that were a fit for me. Now that I'm applying for my PhD this fall I'm looking at some completely different programs and one happens to be very close to where I did my undergrad (research interests changed, as they often do, and now this programs makes more sense for me). The problem is going home. Now that I live across the country going back home seems weird. I've enjoyed the independence my husband and I have had, especially since living so far away has meant that we are less obligated to go home outside of major holidays, breaks, ect (I don't mean to sound like a crappy daughter, but being newly married and having grown up in the same area, we often spent all our breaks/holidays/birthdays/and a lot of Sundays visiting relatives and we've really enjoyed traveling and just spending time together since we've moved). On the upside though we also miss the area we were in, a lot of our friends, and having the ability to pop in and spend an afternoon with some family instead of planning months ahead and spending a lot of money to go visit. We've also talked about having kids in the next 5/7 years, and I do see the benefit in being closer to family at that time. So I've noticed on a lot of people's CVs in my field either people tend to move around quite a bit while others stay in one spot: can anyone add their own experience? TLDR: Did you move for graduate school (or are you looking into programs that are far away), what factored into that decision, and if you didn't do you feel like that has affected/will affect your prospects in the future?

To expand on @xolo, the advice I was given when applying for MA programs (and this was reiterated by my committee chair for my PhD applications as well), was that your application as a whole should tell a story. When beginning the application process you should think to yourself, who will this story speak to (those are your target universities). Your SOP is a way for you to explain what the story is, your transcript is the background to that story, and your writing sample should show the story. So if your SOP states, I'm interested in x,y,and z then it's helpful if the writing sample backs that up by displaying some research you've done on one of those topics. It's also possible that if you don't have experience in x,y, and z you can state upfront, "In the past my research was focused on A/B/C, because of whatever reason (department requirements, lack of resources, coming from a different discipline, ect), but I have since shifted to x/y/z because of blah...blah...blah" then it would make since that your story is about a shift from A/B/C to x/y/z.. Your transcript might show that shift in coursework, your LOR might explain that shift in terms of your work, your CV might show a change as well. However, it would make since in this scenario that your writing sample would be about A/B/C, although in my opinion it would be better if it was about x/y/z since it shows that you are already investing in your new research interest. In terms of using your thesis, this is totally ok! I'm considering that route for my writing sample as well, the advice I was given is do not send the entire thesis. Lots of applicants do this and it can be too long. Instead, I was told that if I choose to include my thesis, simply choose the section that you believe demonstrates your work/story best. Take that section out and provide a statement (roughly one page) in the beginning that provides context for the writing sample and explains why you chose that section.

True. My worry is that I'm already at a 14k (doesn't include summer) stipend in a very low cost of living area. I can't imagine too many other places on my list that would be cheaper to live so a step down in stipend really would be a step down in terms of what I can afford (sound advice though- one of the key reasons I'm not looking into programs in NYC or Cali- I just know that I couldn't live comfortably). I know there is always fellowships/grants, but I don't want to be dependent on something I can't guarantee.

Yeah, no worries. I'm debt free both from my undergrad and MA, which is mostly why I'm not willing to have to take out any loans so I can live comfortably during my PhD. I've just been getting nervous seeing some people mention $13k stipends for PhD programs as if it's a good package, and I just know that's not a livable situation for myself. Applying is also just really expensive and if I know a package isn't going to be competitive I'd rather not waste the $50-100 applying.

Thanks for reposting the spreadsheet. I think I either overlooked/haven't looked at it more recently since it seems longer than I recalled. That's good advice, and I think once I'm more solid on where I want to apply I may reach out as a last resort. I guess I'm just nervous of looking like all I care about is how good a package is rather than fit (or worse, presuming that I will get into their program before I've even applied). Thanks for letting me know about Nebrask-Lincoln, I've heard good things about them, but I hadn't personally researched the program. I'll have to look into it

During my MA application process I really had no understanding of what a stipend for a rhet/comp student would look like (or frankly how far it would get me living in that potential city). I ended up applying to programs that didn't offer MA funding (which I was not aware of when applying). Now that I'm looking into PhD programs I want to know upfront, how much should I expect. The question is, how to figure that out on my own. Some ways I'm attempting to do that right now: 1. Dig around GC to see if anyone has recently mentioned their package 2. Try to find info on the graduate school site (highly unsuccessful so far) 3. Ask around my own program to see if anyone knows So far this has been fairly unsuccessful. I do not want to contact programs about their stipends (as I know budgets change from year to year depending on cohort # and department changes), however I don't want to waste my own money applying to schools that will not offer me a livable stipend. I know there is a database floating around for english programs, but it does not contain a lot of rhet/comp schools (much less state schools I'm planning on applying to). So, how have others gotten around this? Does anyone have a successful method of figuring this before applying, or is it common to just straight up ask programs how much graduate stipends generally are and what they include? Sidenote if anyone is willing to share their packages here or has information/resources for the following programs I would be forever grateful. Some rhet/comp programs I'm thinking of applying to: Clemson (RCID) Bowling Green (English) Purdue (English): I had a collegue mention around 13k, but this seems unreasonably low for the program/PhD level, but what do I know Miami University Texas Christian University (I've heard around the 17k range, but I'm not sure if that's true) Florida State University University of Texas (El Paso) Georgia State University University of Arizona This thread could also just turn into a share your offers thread in general.

I was not specifically referring to altac jobs, but more digitally oriented training will lead to a greater success on the job market (and this is just in my opinion) than a lit degree would. The digital track in my program has training available on user experience, accessibility, web design, project management, ect. Many of our students learn a coding language as a substitute for the foreign language requirement. All of these skills would only add to a resume seeking positions in the tech industry or publishing. I know of program graduates (MA not PhD) who are working as editors and project managers. Like I said in my response above though, this is not unique to rhet/comp, this type of training is available in many humanities programs. I just believe that rhet/comp is a particularly great place to receive this training

Rhet/Comp person here. There are lots of questions here so I'm going to answer a few I know answers to and direct you to some ways to find out if rhet/comp is right for you. What do Rhet/Comp folks do? Well it depends on what type of program you're in. Some rhet/comp folks focus more on traditional aspects of rhetoric (think the classics, aristotle, theory, writing, and communication), other programs are more interdisciplinary and their departments may overlap with other programs at their university (Womens studies departments, English lit, digital humanities, ect), some simply have their own specializations (MSU for example has strong Cultural Rhetorics and Digital Humanities tracks). Mostly though some common themes you'll find in rhet/comp lit is writing (surprise!), community, stories, literacy, persuasion (through rhetorical devices), and communication. Is a Rhet/Comp PhD always focused only on college writing and literacy issues like WPA and writing center work? If I am interested in studying propaganda, advertising, and political rhetoric, is a Rhet/Comp PhD right for me? See above- of course not! If you are interested in WPA or FYW then you will find it much easier to find programs (and faculty) that fit your interests. Most rhet/comp people who end up as adjuncts or in early faculty positions do serve as college writing instructors. However, many serve as WPA, program directors, or in positions in other fields (digital humanities, Arts & Sciences programs, or within smaller sister departments within their research interests- think a rhet/comp degree holder whose thesis was on indigenous methods of storytelling may serve in an Indigenous Studies programs). For your second response: there are many programs that would have faculty studying propogand and political rhetoric (especially in light of the recent election! search CFPs for special election issues and you'll be pleasantly surprised), but your interests would also fit within a communication program or a media studies programs (it just depends on where you think you fit best based on region, finances, and faculty). Do I really have a better chance of finding tenure-line work with a Rhet/Comp degree than with a Lit degree? This is tricky, so I will leave this to lit people to discuss the job market in their field, but I will say Rhet/Comp (just like many humanities programs) can provide training in areas that will help you get a degree (such as professional writing, website design, coding, technical writing, ect). I have seen many of the people from my program leave with jobs in hand and our department has only grown. I realize though that this is not the case everywhere. Jobs are hard to find in any field right now, so if tenure-track is your goal, ask programs about their graduate's record in receiving these positions. Am I more likely to find a standard classroom teaching gig as a Rhet/Comp, or am I more likely to work in administrative roles like WPA or writing center director? This will depend on your research, focus, and GA position. If you don't want to be a WPA no one will make you. I will say though just in terms of job availability there will always be less WPA positions than teaching positions. Most universities have 1-3 admins in a writing center whereas they may have 20-30 teach positions for "standard classroom teaching" (note: I'm talking about FYW, rhetoric/comp, and potentially English class positions since let's face it most Rhet/Comp people end up in an English department not in a stand alone Rhet/Comp department). What are some specializations or subfields in Rhet/Comp that are especially popular right now? What are some subfields that I might not know about (given that I clearly know very little to begin with)? Just to name a few that I know of from my department's subfields: pedagogy, literacy, teaching, visual rhetoric, digital rhetorics, cultural rhetorics, disability studies, indigenous studies, chicano/a studies, trauma studies, queer theory, environmental studies, African American studies, multi-modal composition, accessibility, professional writing, rhetorical theory/historiography, and technical writing (these are literally just some of what people in my department study- find a department that is flexible and enthusiastic and they will help you find spaces for your work) And, what other aspects of Rhet/Comp am I clearly trampling over in my ignorance in this post? This is not your ignorance, but a lot of people think rhet/comp is just writing, or just like the field of English because we are so often housed in English programs. However, Rhet/Comp is a very growing and changing field. There is also a great divide in the field between more traditional programs and more "progressive" programs. Where you do your MA/PhD will greatly influence what you will read, how you will be trained, and the programs you will be able to more easily network with. Rhet/Comp is a lot more diverse and nuanced that just writing, but writing is at the heart of what we do. If you want to focus more on literature, history, or a particular time period literature may be a better fit for you, if you want to focus more on theories of communication then communication may be better for you. It just depends on your resources, desires, and focus. I highly recommend searching through a department's website and looking at what their graduate students are focusing on. Their research interests will show you what is more popular/available in their department and you will often see common themes. Taking a brief look through their list of courses is also a good start. I chose Rhet/Comp because I always enjoyed theory and persuasion over literary analysis, as an undergraduate I had the opportunity to take rhetoric classes that really made me think about my position, power, and motives (in fact we talked quite a lot about propoganda and power). Overall I found a place in the field that was open to me really exploring my identity, power, and position and overall challenges me to write (and discuss other's writing) from a place that questions those priveleges. However, rhet/comp isn't the only place you can do that work and our field is smaller than lit. Our field is growing because we are able to secure some funding through digital humanities programs, Writing Centers, and First Year Writing pedagogy/labs (something some more traditional programs/english programs may not be able to). PS: Online writing is a very hot topic right now so there is space for that interest as well.

I currently live in Denton, finishing up my undergraduate at UNT this semester. I love living in Denton. It's small town, but very close to the metroplex and in terms of restaurants and music it can't be beat. If you're looking for nicer housikg, I agree about Scott Brown properties, very nice and usually close to campus. I lice across I35, and I'm about a 10 minute drive from campus and my rent is just south of $900 (two bedroom, two bath, I split with a roommate). If you want recommendations for apartments or restaurants you can private message me. Forewarning it is a bit dead during the summer, but it can be more affordable than a lot of college towns. Also if you time it well/don't mind moving a lot, you can always find dirt cheap subleases during the summer months. Also, I just visited OU a couple of months ago, and I found Norman to be very similar to Denton, you won't have a problem transitioning.

Rhet/Comp here: just turned down offers from the following. Hope this helps somebody out, they're all great programs Washington State University (English) University of Oklahoma (Rhetoric/Comp) Illinois State University (English- Rhetoric track)

Let me be clear, they in no way said "we have decided not to send out official rejections." I stated that even though they literally have no spots left, they have for some reason (unknown to me) not sent out official rejection letters to a large number of applicants. I will say Cheryl Mohr told me the first round of rejections went out in early March, I'm very confused why they have rounds of rejections when all their spots have been accepted. Perhaps it's a safety net for the emergency of an applicant backing out last minute? (which would be highly unlikely considering the prestige of their program, but still possible) I feel that it would be more fair to have a small waitlist and notify everyone else of the rejection rather than only responding to people who email multiple times. I just want to be clear that no one at Penn State told me word for word that they had decided to not formally reject people. This is my own deduction based on my email from Debra Hawhee, I posted because this answer was different from what their graduate secretary told me, and that many people on this thread had been emailing her and were still holding out.

I'm honestly not sure, I'm rhet/comp too. Dr. Hawhee told me my application was strong and that they had already filled their spots. Perhaps this means lit spots are still open but I highly doubt it. I'm honestly not sure why they send out some rejections but don't send out others, Penn State was my long shot so I never legitimately thought that I would get in, but at the same time having them wait so close to the deadline made me have second doubts of "what ifs" .... ie: "what if I was waitlisted, what if I got accepted last minute?" I do agree that it's unnecessary anxiety and they need a better system, but they are most definitely not the only offenders. Purdue holds a similar policy, they however skirt around it by insisting they do not have a waitlist (which I'm sure is not true). Additionally, Syracuse actually had the audacity to tell me in the middle of March that they hadn't decided on any candidates yet (which is clearly a lie)- so Penn State is certainly not the worst. These back and forths are unfortunately part of the game, and I think we all knew this going in. Look back into any of the postings from years before and it's clear that Penn State has always done this, and they will probably continue to do so. They're program is strong, their faculty is phenomenal, hence why we all sent in apps well knowing we probably wouldn't hear back unless we were accepted. Frustrating.. yes. Unforeseeable.. no...

Just an update. Emailed Cheryl Mohr and she gave me the whole, "if you haven't heard anything then we're still considering your application." Emailed Debra Hawhee, it did take a couple weeks to hear back and while she was incredibly nice she informed me that all offers have been extended and accepted, so they aren't planning on sending anymore but for some reason have decided not to officially reject people. I assumed this, but if you're still holding out, here's the answer

Absolutely agree with this, graduate students offer a wealth of wisdom about livability and since they're currently struggling with rent/bills/cost of living in the area they'll be able to give you an honest answer about how affordable it is to live in the area. I'll also add that you shouldn't be afraid to ask about funding for other costs such as moving costs or future summer funding. If you plan to stay during the summer, you'll want to know what options you'll have because funding offers usually pay for the 9 months you'll be taking class, but some departments do have assistanships for the summer, or even better- summer funding options for your research. It can be intimidating to talk so frankly about the costs of school that don't seem to fall into the TA category or tuition waiver, but they are real expenses and most departments have a recruitment director who will be happy to talk to you about them.

As for moving, I agree with everyone else, selling off as much as you can will definitely lessen the burden of moving. With some lighter items, shipping may also be a less expensive option for moving papers/clothes/or shoes than taking up valuable vehicle space which could be reserved for larger furniture. Books if you have them and aren't attached can also be a quick way to get cash. As for making money fast, these are not always the most effective or dependable but try looking for short term work- sometimes you can find jobs on craigslist or through online listings that are only for a day/a couple of hours. Not knowing your situation, this could be a possible solution if you can't commit to a job but have some spare time to work. Some ideas: house cleaning, working at private events (ie: concerts or even catering). If you have experience in academic events from highschool you can sometimes get hired at tournaments for the day- not sure about New Mexico, but here in Texas it's easy to get hired as a debate judge if you have experience from high school debating or even just experience teaching/in communications/know the right people. I judge tournaments on the weekends all the time and the pay can range from $100-300 a weekend. I would definitely say ask your department about this. You can ask without revealing your financial situation, I would suggest something along the lines of, "I'm really excited about the program, but the costs of moving is a major difficulty for me. The move from x (your location) to y (school's location) is significant, and I was wondering if the school has resources for this transition, or if this is something the department every assists with? If not, is there someone you could refer me to that may be able to help navigate me through the moving process"- it certainly can't hurt to ask, odds are faculty have also had to make moves for graduate school and positions at other schools, and even if they can't help they'll certainly be sympathetic to the cause- so it's not like it'll seem odd that you're concerned with moving costs

From personal experience I can tell you which schools offered full funding for MA: I second Michigan State, this is where I'm heading in the fall for their WRAC program and they have a union for graduate workers- which is awesome- because it means you don't have to pay student fees (which can be incredibly shocking to hear the student fee amounts, so when you're offered a package also see how much the fees are it can really make a difference- like a $4,000 difference between different schools) they offered full funding through TA, insurance, and 1/2 dental. Also they cover 5 hours of summer classes in the tuition waver as well, if that's something you're interested in. Washington State: it's within the English MA, but they have faculty that do rhetoric as well. Tuition waver/Stipend/and insurance. They also offered first time student scholarships that you don't have to apply to separately. University of Oklahoma: if you're doing Native American Studies in conjunction with rhetoric Illinois State University: very nice faculty, super helpful, and in addition to rhetoric they have a wonderful children's literature track Avoid for MA: University of Colorado, great English program but no funding. They only fund PhD, and they take very few PhD students each year. If you're concerned about funding, I would suggest looking into communications programs. The faculty at some universities are often shared by rhetoric and comm programs, and communications departments often have more funds. If you're interested in Penn State for example, Debra Hawhee is the director of both departments, but the comm program is slightly less competitive than the rhetoric (or so I have been told) and provides some very generous funding if you're accepted.

Some schools I applied to needed official copies, others would take unofficial scans. It never hurts to ask, because even some of my programs that said explicitly on the application and website that you had to send an official copy said it would be fine to just scan it after I emailed them. The only thing I managed to avoid sending in was my community college transcripts. I simply explained that I was not enrolled as a student, but took those classes as part of a Dual credit program of the school- so even though they transferred they were treated like an AP score report. After that all of my programs said it was no longer necessary to send in. Luckily my undergraduate school will let me send transcripts for free- I know other schools though can charge steep rates for just printing off a letter, so my sympathies.

Totally not worth it. It was a small business branching out. I had only stayed with the business for so long because I wanted the management position, the second the owner told me that I had the job unless they had someone else apply who committed to two years, I was out of there. I didn't want to continue working somewhere that undervalued my skills and loyalty. I get my personal kicks out of knowing they still have not found a qualified person to take the position.

I think it depends more on the departments/your field. I've asked multiple professors if I should contact any professors I'm interested in working with and received mixed answers. I've heard you shouldn't bother them, I've also been told however that it won't hurt and could help. In the end, I asked a very trusted professor of mine who knows several faculty members at different programs whether I should seek out professors and email them and he said not to worry about it. However, I'm an English/Rhetoric major, so it may be more common for STEM majors to contact professors. I feel like it wouldn't be a mistake not to though. Like imagine if they went through apps and were like, "ohhh did @123hardasABC send anyone an email? No, well nevermind we won't admit them." That would be pretty terrible.

@hippyscientist Thanks! It's rough, but it helps to know that it's not intentional. It's just a culture difference, most people from my hometown don't end up living farther than a couple hours away. I agree, it's just a few hours on flight, but I guess in a way I'm officially leaving the nest and it's pretty hard on my family. It doesn't help that I'm also getting married this summer so to my dad it's a lot of changes all at the same time. I know they're happy for me they just don't really know how to show it (ok, well my grandmother is kind of a bitter woman to begin with and refuses to fly, but everyone else is trying to be more open minded). I'm so happy your family is so understanding, mine is flipping out over a move out of state, I don't know what they would do if I moved out of the country.

My previous employer knew I was planning on applying to graduate school, and I wish I never said anything. She passed me up for a management position at a new location that would have covered me (on salary) for several months and the summer before grad school. She basically told me that she would hire me, but she wanted someone who commit to two years and I could only commit to 8 months. It's her choice, and some would argue for transparency- but if I didn't get into graduate school that would have been a nice backup for a gap year before I reapplied and honestly any person interviewing could guarantee (since she's not making people sign a 2 year contract) that they plan on staying for 2 years even if they only planned to stay until something better came up. It seems sneaky, but honestly the application process is dodgy and there's never a guarantee you'll get in- it's just smart business to cover your bases and unless they ask outright you're not obligated to offer up personal information about future plans.

Small town, first generation student- not only does my family never leave the town I grew up in, but none of them have ever even attended college. Meaning that they are all "happy" for me, but clearly resentful that I'm going to be moving out of state- because that's just not something they've ever had to deal with. My dad says he understands it's important for my career and that he supports me- but I can tell my family isn't very happy when I've told them about my acceptances so far. It doesn't help that my SO is in a similar situation with his family-it makes me feel like I'm abandoning them and taking him away from his family too. When I told my grandmother that I got into Washington State today she said, "Am I supposed to be excited about that?" I get that it hurts them that I'll be leaving, but the guilt trip is killing me, because I know the move is going to be hard on me as well. So I understand, some acceptances have a tinge of sadness to them and family members that aren't going through the process just don't understand how hurtful they can be.

Funding or I don't go. I'm going into grad school with eyes wide open, just because I get a PhD doesn't mean I'm guaranteed a job (much less a high paying one). I did my undergrad all fully funded with scholarships and grants, I plan to do the same for my graduate work. I simply can't afford to pay for school, especially considering how dismal the job market is. Many professors never get tenure, and it's common for universities to hire adjuncts in order to avoid full time faculty costs. Really hoping that's not my outcome, but realistically I know I could never afford to pay back loans on that type of salary. I've been offered a TA position so far, 14k isn't amazing but it's great for a Masters program. If I need to, I'll get a part time job to cover additional living expenses. My fiance is STEM though, so I'm hoping somewhere offers him a healthy stipend to balance mine out.

Definitely advocate for it. I had a similar situation happen in which the department said they had not received a letter of recommendation through an online system, I simply took a screenshot of my portal showing the loaded document and forwarded the email that the system sent me notifying that the document had been uploaded. Similar situation, I too thought that my entire application was uploaded and should have followed up, but with so many applications, emails, and documents it's understandable that one can slip through the cracks. The school seems great, and it doesn't hurt to know all of your options. Furthermore, this could have happened to several students, so your investigation could help aid the case of another student with the same problem (or at the least, force the external app to fix their bugs).

Both my fiance and I are applying to graduate school this season. We'll be getting married in the summer and plan on starting school in the Fall together. The process has been difficult, we're applying to the same schools but different departments and I've been accepted into two programs and he's been rejected from 3. It's really hard to feel happy about acceptances when he hasn't had any. Is anyone else currently applying with a SO that plans to move with you or is applying as well? Have you started talking about backup plans? He's very supportive of me, and excited, but I just received my second admission from a school he was rejected from- and I wasn't really looking forward to telling him. Even though we're not competing, it's hard to be happy for myself when he's so anxious. Additionally, I'm extremely anxious, we have a (very, very) safety school, but now that I've been accepted into two, far more prestigious programs I fear that going there (if we are accepted, which I'm 99.9% we will be) will make me bitter/not be the best decision career wise. How are other people dealing with the added stress of twice the applications and decisions?