eternallyephemeral

I didn't apply to clinical psych, so maybe it's different there, but I can tell you that no one had any problems with me being in multiple labs. Currently, I am in two, but I have worked in five different labs over three years of my undergrad. Professors only saw it as a positive that I had so much research experience. But of course, being able to explain what you are learning that is unique to each lab is important. However, maybe this is different across areas of psych, because in cognitive/perception/industrial-organizational psych, I haven't had any issues. Even in business PhD programs I applied to, they didn't have a problem with it (they were just glad I had research experience). I'm pretty sure undergrad is the place to try out different mentors and supervisors, to learn techniques, and to gain as much experience as possible so that you know what you're doing when you get to grad school. It would be very unfortunate if schools didn't understand that.

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I can't tell you what to choose, of course, but here's what I'm seeing in your pros and cons: - I don't really know how much the coursework will matter. Either way, you have experience in the field and I don't think grad courses do that much for you if you're already a scholar. So school A having more animal courses probably isn't a big deal, especially because you're not supposed to spend as much time on coursework as you would expect coming from undergrad. - Is teaching experience really important to you? If it is, then I would use that to help break the tie. Also, how does the school have no undergrads? (that's an aside). - I come from a cognitive neuroscience background, and there are definitely some people who do say staying at the same school isn't a good thing. I know people who specifically do not take their own students. Obviously, that's not an issue here, but generally you are debating between comfort/consistency and new experiences that could teach you a lot, though they are out of your comfort zone. I would personally recommend not staying at the same place. - You say the lab at school B is slower to get things going, but there are data sets ready from day one, which would suggest that you could get publishing really quickly. Of course, the only thing quicker would be to have already started (at school A, as you have), but I don't think you'll be losing out on publications that much at school B that it will impact you later. Further, at school A, people will potentially see your publication record as something coming from before your PhD and they will notice that you hadn't been supervised by another person, so there's that perception going on. I wouldn't put as much weight on guaranteed publications at school A as you have, just personally. Anything can happen and I think the goal should be to learn and put forth great research that you have as much input in as possible. Sometimes a smaller lab can do that; as you said, you would be the only expert in that area, though your prof is very knowledgeable. Just some things to think about. Good luck!

That's great! The one thing I would have done differently when applying, which of course you don't have to follow if you don't want to, was that I would have spent my time applying to places I knew could fund me. So as an international student to the US, I wouldn't have bothered with publicly funded schools, especially those with funding issues (i.e. University of California schools). But that's just a hindsight regret. Good luck with your application!

Is it a funded program? I know that U of T has very limited funded spots for international students, meaning that you have to really stand out to be offered a funded position. And if they want to guarantee funding to all of their students, they are less likely to accept international students due to the higher tuition cost. Okay, I went to the website and found this link about international students. It sounds like they don't offer funding (although there are two kinds of masters): http://www.dlsph.utoronto.ca/international-applicants/ Do you have these required courses? Also required are courses in linear algebra, advanced calculus, probability and mathematical statistics. That's from their website. So in general, I would say international applicants have a low to moderate chance of acceptance, but it's always based on the applicant pool. You do have to show that you can pay for it, as it seems that there is no funding for international students and you may not be able to work. You also won't be eligible for most government funding, so keep that in mind. I'm Canadian and I applied to US schools, and it's extremely difficult to beat the odds either way (applying across countries).

I agree with everyone above re: GREs. First of all, I am of the strong belief that the GRE only tests how good you are at the GRE/how much you prepared. I personally think you should aim for perfect, not 155. Obviously, GREs are not the most important (by any stretch), but you want to have as many reasons as possible they should take you. I would prepare a great deal, for a long time, and not half-ass the test. If you want some tips (I got 98 percentile on both verbal/writing, and 86 percentile on quant), PM me

I would say some sources of funding are more than just ways to pay for your degree/living expenses, they are also prestigious grants/fellowships that are worth putting on your cv and can help you later win larger grants. So in this way, even if you could pay for a degree, you wouldn't get to say that you received federal funding, or that you wrote grant applications to this many scholarships (which is a skill unto itself). Also, whether or not you can pay for it does not change the fact that an unfunded masters is usually a way to make a lot of money from a student without the university having to spend too much money on you. They are still showing that they aren't interested in supporting you and allowing you to completely focus on the degree without either draining your savings or working on the side. For that reason, I wouldn't see the degree as that much better. Mind you, this is for research type degrees, not professional degrees where you could make back all the money you spent in 1-2 years (e.g. medicine, law, MBA).

Definitely double check, but it is possible that the first year is considered an MS and then you get formally 'accepted' into the PhD after. My program is kind of like this, but more clear about the process (you apply to the masters, but then you get right in to the PhD unless you were super terrible). Another clue to help is if its funded, it may be a lead-in to the PhD. If it's unfunded, it's likely a stand-alone program. But nothing is better than asking.

First of all, I'm sure everyone here doesn't have those kinds of stats, let alone more than just a few people. However, as an aspiring international student from another country (as in, I applied to the US but I'm from Canada), I think we just have to realize how difficult it is to get into top schools in the US. This is true for multiple reasons, that may be difficult to get over even if you are a competitive applicant, and even if you could do this masters, take on the debt, and re-apply. First of all, these top schools have hundreds and hundreds of applications. One program (spanning eight departments, mind you) that I applied to got 1100-1300 applications. So even if you had all the masters in the world, with the 4.0 and 170/170 youre referring to, there will be many more like that. And if you aren't a US citizen, and they have to pay more to fund you because your tuition is higher, then they are much more likely to choose a domestic student. However, this is true for public schools and less true (but not completely irrelevant) for private schools. I would highly suggest looking into schools that are not in the top ten, even though I'm sure this will seem bad or like it isn't what you're aiming for. Even though I was told by professors at some top schools that I was a competitive applicant, even though I have quite awesome GREs, LORs, and research experience (plus one publication and another one in the pipeline), I still wasn't even considered or waitlisted/shortlisted for any US schools I applied to. However, at comparable schools in my country, I was shortlisted/interviewed, and sometimes #1 on the waitlist (I was moving to a different field which ultimately sealed my fate and I was rejected when both other people took the offer). In sum, a school that sometimes ranks #4 in the world for their faculty's research put me #1 on the waitlist, when I wasn't even given a second glance at US schools of comparable or sometimes lower ranking. You may find this, or you may be luckier than I am. However, I don't think it's a sure enough bet that I would be willing to go $70k into debt for. There are likely some schools you will find that aren't exactly what you wanted in terms of ranking and prestige, but they can be a good fit for you and you may still be able to reach your eventual career goals. The place I've accepted is like that, it's a bit lower in ranking, but it has tons of opportunities and a very supportive department. I will be able to thrive and do good work, and my stipend will go a long way towards saving money and living comfortably. I would prioritize these things, but some people don't have the same priorities. Just make sure that if you're choosing this expensive route, that you think about the kind of places you will later be applying to and whether there are some things you just can't get over, like trying to get funded as an international student from a public university where their funding is very tight. For example, I know at UCLA in some departments, the professor has to sign that they will cover all of the extra costs of an international student if the school were to accept them. And these costs are in the tens of thousands for the prof. Best of luck with your decision!

I would also recommend the Elements of Style, as @Applicant 1746 mentioned. Here are two more that may be helpful: APA 6th Edition Manual - even if you are not in psychology this is very helpful with writing introductions, discussions, formatting tables, figures, papers in general, and it gives you tips on style and word usage. Sense of Style: Scientific Writing in the 21st Century - Steven Pinker - this is an excellent book by an excellent writer, who talks about communicating clearly and without jargon/excessive complexity. Dr. Pinker also studies these topics in his research, and has great talks based on this book that you may be able to find on the computer. Also, I find outlines really help me. Even if it is just jotting down the main ideas or papers you want to discuss. Try to do this with as little judgement as possible. I don't think I could have finished my undergraduate thesis without an outline, and people can give you feedback on these outlines if you're having trouble. Writing clearly and concisely is a rare skill, but something that you can develop with constant revision and helpful tools. Good luck!

I understand you don't think you are looking for compliments, despite saying earlier that you are unhappy as none of your professors so far have complimented your work. It can be difficult to come from doing very well in undergrad to struggling in grad school, as the different program requires some adjustment. A lot of people have this issue from high school to undergrad, and again from undergrad to grad. You're not the only person facing this, but that doesn't mean that you don't have to be self-reflective. You said the comments from professors make you feel worthless. No one can tell you that isn't how you are feeling, but that is not 100% about the professor. How they communicate and how you interpret their comments both interact to make you feel this way. And because sometimes you can't change how they communicate, you have to either get out of that relationship if you can, or change the way you interpret their comments to preserve your sanity. I would recommend the second one. The writing centre should be very helpful, and you can always google what books to read. I don't think anyone else should need to tell you what books to read in graduate school, but if you want some recommendations on books about writing, here are some below: APA 6th Edition Manual - even if you are not in psychology this is very helpful with writing introductions, discussions, formatting tables, figures, papers in general, and it gives you tips on style and word usage. Elements of Style - William Strunk and E.B. White - this is the major book about how to write well. it has been around for almost 100 years and still holds true today. Sense of Style: Scientific Writing in the 21st Century - Steven Pinker - this is an excellent book by an excellent writer, who talks about communicating clearly and without jargon/excessive complexity. Dr. Pinker also studies these topics in his research, and has great talks based on this book that you may be able to find on the computer. I hope these are helpful. I use all three when I train editors that work for me at our undergrad journal. That's great that you are determined to finish this program. My recommendations from my other post still stand, because they should be implemented whether or not you are staying. What you've been doing so far hasn't been working well for you, regardless of your marks (that's not what I'm referring to), so you should make some changes before things get even worse. We all have to improve and constantly evaluate how we're doing and how we're feeling, so don't just continue to do something if it causes you stress and if you feel worthless. Change it instead of 'dealing' with the misery.

The support question seems to be much more general than this specific assignment. I think you should think deeply about what you are looking for in the program. You mentioned that you haven't received compliments from any professors while in grad school: from what I understand, this doesn't happen in any graduate program. At this level, it's not about rubrics and compliments. If that's whats necessary for you to feel comfortable with your performance, this might not be the right atmosphere for you. So generally I would think hard about what you really want. Do you feel you need compliments? People constantly checking on you? Extremely clear guidelines? The prof may be able to support you, but most of these things are now your own responsibility. You have to compliment yourself, you have to check up on yourself, and you have to set deadlines and interpret guidelines to make them clear. Grad school is self-directed, so this is the new reality and it can be discouraging. I think after a bit of a soul searching process, you'll know what your answer is, not just to whether you should drop this class.

I'm very fortunate to have a decent funding package for my MSc/PhD in a low cost of living city. I don't have loans, so I will save whatever I don't need to spend to live frugally. This program is also great because there are external funding options (still waiting to hear back), extra TA positions, RAships, and internships available. I know most people are not so lucky, so best of luck to those reading!

It must be stressful when the scholarships are necessary for you to make your decision! I was choosing between two schools and one had a significantly lower funding package: the higher one was almost double the lower one. I'm glad that the more funded school was also better for me in every aspect, but obviously that isn't always the case. Did you also apply to OGS? The school I'm going to releases them both on the same day, which I think is a good idea.

No problem! That sounds good. Yeah I completely agree that a 3.55 is good, it's very impressive. There are just so many things that you have to consider and with any aspect, there are always people more competitive. I just never thought I had a really good chance until I officially got an acceptance. No, he was applying to neuroscience and some psych programs for brain and behaviour. But they were extremely competitive (like MIT, UCLA, etc). And he has less than a 3.5. His GREs were also pretty bad (like 50th percentile), though he has amazing research and LORs. I think generally, he either barely made the cutoff or perhaps he didn't at all. However, but being an international student also has something to do with it.

Do those MA programs have a thesis and do you work with a supervisor directly? Because if that's the case and you want to do a masters first, then you could go for that. However, if they aren't funded and if they make you take longer, when you could get into a PhD program, then I wouldnt go the longer route. What I would do to see what kinds of chances you have for these programs, is to look at the current students on the school website and maybe even email them to ask which parts of the applicaiton are more important. I wouldn't ask them to tell you if you'll get in or not, but they will probably be more honest than the people working there, because the students have no vested interest of trying to get you to apply. Then I would make a connection with as many potential supervisors as you can, because things like this can help you if you meet the GPA cutoff (which you most likely would) and if your stronger aspects are research and interviews. So maybe you could have one of the Masters programs as a backup? Not that you are guaranteed to get in, but if the deadlines are late enough for the MA, you could potentially hear back from some schools and then apply to the MA. My boyfriend did this, but he didn't plan it out before (he just didn't get into any of his PhD programs), and now he's probably going to the same place I am! So I think it'll work out. You're being realistic which is good, however keep in mind that mid tier programs can still have lots of applicants and they can be very competitive.

@fernandes: Great to hear! Taking on an extra side-job (they have lots of different names) is a great idea to make some extra money. It can help to break up the monotony as well. You're absolutely right about the taxes, sometimes only your TAing positions are taxed and not any fellowship or scholarship money that you receive. I know for my school, I will only be taxed on TA income (I'm not sure about supplemental RAships, it may count to those as well), but not on external or internal scholarships or the money that pays tuition. These are all questions the administrators at your school should answer. I agree regarding not knowing what you want to do. Many people are in PhD programs after spending years or decades of not knowing what they want to do. I think there's nothing wrong with focus on the cost and benefit of each degree, considering the increase of people getting advanced degrees and where you want to stand within that, and thinking about many different options for your future. In my personal opinion, people who do that instead of blindly following what they have previously done or what people say is best for them make better decisions that make them happier. Anytime! Best of luck to you!

Here is what I asked my POI and some of her students. You might need different things: -Could I start reading up on things and preparing studies in the summer? -How long do people normally take in the program? -Do students go to conferences often? -How is the competition for external funding? -What is your supervisory style? How often do you meet with your students? -Do your students have a lot of projects at different stages, or do they usually work one at a time? -How do your students balance TAing, classes, RAships, research, and potentially teaching/internships? -I asked a bit about going into industry, as its pretty common in my program. I talked about it more with the students though. Sometimes you don't want to go down that road with your POI. -Do you prefer your students to work on campus? What do they normally do? Do students talk about their work with each other to get feedback/new ideas? If you're not sure yet, you could ask what research they are working on that isn't out yet, what they're planning to do, or if they want you to come up with your first few projects independently. You could ask about collaboration with people at different schools, within the school, between their students, or across departments. I hope some of that helps. There's probably many more things I forgot!

@fernandes: you seem very aware of the potential issues and I think that's most important. I also thought very hard about the masters vs PhD aspect, as I am interested in going into industry. And frankly, because the PhD can help me in some ways, and because they are funded, that was a really big deal for my decision. It's worth it I think, not to come out with all that debt but to start a little later. Are there any degrees where the PhD is combined with a masters? This might be less common in engineering, but in some biology/psychology programs I'm familiar with, you get accepted and complete a funded masters first, and you're expected to continue to the PhD. However, not everyone does. This could give you more options, because if you were to leave in the middle of only a PhD program, you wouldnt have anything to show for what you did. Regarding the taxes thing, it would be good to talk to someone who's knowledgeable about these things, especially because grad stipends are confusing (sometimes most of your money is not taxed) and there can be extra issues if you are international. Though if you're making that little, I don't see then taking a lot of money from you. Your best bet regarding internships is to do your best to budget without that summer money, and then consider it to he extra income you didn't plan for. So try if possible to keep your necessary and extra spending (needs and some wants under 18k, until you know more about the internships. They may never be guaranteed though, so you don't want to go into debt because you expected them and they didn't happen. If you don't know if you want to do a PhD, I don't think that's the worst thing in the world. You'll still learn a lot, and in your case you could get really helpful knowledge on the way American universities and maybe businesses work. This could be really helpful for you, though of course finishing the degree is good as well. You may never know if you are capable until you try it, but you should definitely spend a lot of time thinking (which it seems you have).

You're absolutely right! I shouldn't have mentioned that I don't really have experience in a small small town, I thought that a place with a research university would always be at least a certain size (but now I should go look that up). There's probably a minimum or an optimal point for the size of a town so that you can have opportunities and things to do, while still maintaining a decent (lower) cost of living and some peace and quiet.

I'm moving from a big city (>5mil people) to a small town (well, it's a growing college town with ~400k in the city proper) for grad school starting this year, and I've been visiting the new place. It was awesome to be in a big city for undergrad and I really enjoyed it. I will probably move back to that big city to settle down. Opportunities: There was always something happening in the city, and a new place to explore or to eat at every day. I loved that amount of choice, but other people aren't so thrilled about it. Less Travel/Different Hobbies: I feel that when you live in a big city, you do more staycation type traveling where you go to another part of the city for a day. Either that or you don't feel the need to travel as often, because there's less monotony you are trying to break up. Although some hobbies people have may be similar to a small town, I feel that more city hobbies involve going to something new that hasn't yet reached the small town, but of course people in cities still do things like bike/run/go to parks/have picnics and check out local things just like small town people do. The College as Integrated with the City: I feel that my college (we call it a university here) was very much integrated within the city. For people in industry-related things, this can be really helpful. If you are only interested in doing research and you have everything you want in the university, it probably wouldn't matter if you were in a big city or not, as far as your research is concerned. In my area, it's important to get human participants and to be close to companies for internships, corporate research, and jobs when you get out of school. However, the students and faculty in the college town did help me see some positives in moving to the smaller place. Less Distraction: For example, the students/faculty said that the town is quieter, and there is enough going on to have some fun things to do, but there are not so many choices that there's a new exciting thing to do every day that could distract you from your work. This particular town is a few hours from the big city I mentioned, so it's a close trip to get to all the new exciting attractions/restaurants/shows. Small-Town Hobbies/Attitudes: People's hobbies are more situated around nature and the outdoors, and there are still people to get to know in a community setting. It seems people are more welcoming (as they typically are in a smaller town) and that the stressful, crazy traffic is not present, making the pace slower and more relaxed. Making Connections: I guess because people typically make connections in academia by going to conferences, it may not matter where you live as long as you go to the same annual meetings everyone else does. I think for industry, if you're interested in it, the connections you can make in your city and the internships you can get may be more important. Each of these factors will matter in a different balance to you than to me, or anyone else. But do remember that it is temporary! I was concerned at first about moving to a much smaller place, but I do think I'll adapt to the new situation eventually.

I don't know too much about the cost of living in Houston, but I am from a large, relatively extremely expensive city in Canada and I've been living on around $12k. For reference, the average one-bedroom costs $1500 and I pay $600 (I've got a roommate in a great place). If you know about costs in Houston, you could perhaps compare to these numbers. As you mentioned, this is your 9-month stipend, and you could get some extra money in the summer through various means. Could you contact students that are in the program now and ask them if these opportunities actually work out? It's one thing for the school to say there are extra TAships or internships, but its another for the students to reliably get them. I may be coming from another perspective, because I think that sounds like a middle-of-the-road offer and in my experience, it's difficult to get in as an international student, let alone to get sufficient funding. But the term sufficient could mean different things to different people. The most important thing to focus on, more than the things your family might be concerned about, is whether you are prepared and willing to do the very long commitment of going through a PhD program. It's okay if you don't know exactly what you want to do. But if it requires a PhD and you're passionate about that job and about everything you'll have to do within the PhD, then you can get through the tough times when you don't feel great about what you're doing, and you're questioning what the point is. I wouldn't worry at all about being 30, unless you have a problem with starting your career at that age. We'll live a long time, we hope, and you have tons of years to work. Starting later is very common and completely understandable. Your job now should be to research jobs you may want to do, and if they are in industry, then look into the difference in salary between having a masters and a PhD. If it's a lot and you want the PhD level, it can sometimes make financial sense to be in a longer program. Adding the difference between a funded PhD and an unfunded Masters, if the PhD opens doors for you, it does seem worth it. That's a decision you have to make though, and it requires a lot of commitment.

Keep in mind that the GRE tests how well you are at doing the test. I studied my ass off with every book and online practice test I could find, spending months (maybe years) on my vocab list to learn all the words I never knew (and have since forgotten). Out of eight schools, I had interviews at four, waitlisted to one (turned into a rejection), rejected at five (two presumed and one of the interviews), and accepted at two. I moved topics (and entire faculties!) at the six I was rejected, waitlisted and interviewed-then-waitlisted at. If that makes sense (psych to business). Verbal: 168 (98th%) Quant: 163 (86th%) AW: 5.5 (98th%) I would still say that other aspects (especially fit, more than anything else) are more important. Making the cutoff or being safely within the school's range is what you should focus on, lest you have diminishing returns trying to get that extra few points.

In my personal opinion, the rankings at these schools are similar and that means that ranking is not as big of a difference in this case. The fellowship would be good for multiple reasons, one for the prestige and also for the funding aspect. However, if the mediocre funding offer is offset by you wanting to live there, and it's enough to cover your costs, I could see these aspects balancing out. The job prospects answer depends on what kind of job you are thinking of. You mentioned liking more applied research, but I don't want to assume that means you want to go so applied as to only be considering industry and not academia. If you're thinking about industry, I don't think that difference in school ranking will mean the difference between getting and not getting a job. Those things being said, I believe that your productivity is highest in a place you would like to live, where you don't have to constantly worry about the cost of living there, and where you have a great research fit with a supportive and understanding supervisor. This means different things to different people, but these differences can be the difference between excelling in a good program and facing huge difficulties in a better program. Ultimately, you are the one getting the degree and you should be creating your unique PhD path. I believe you will be good at a good school and at an excellent school, and that the opportunities available are the dealbreakers. If you have the opportunity to do what you want to do, if you have the opportunity to make enough money to live on, and if you have the opportunity to go into the type of career you want (as approximated by where the alumni go), then you made a good choice. I'm sure some people will disagree, but it depends on your intentions imo. Best of luck with your decision!

That should be good. Competitive GREs differ by school, but you should aim to be in the 80 percentile range, but if you're below that it's okay. Which type of psych are you interested in? If it's clinical, then I would say it's going to be extremely difficult to get into a PhD program. If it's cognitive or physiological psych/neuroscience, you should be alright. It also depends if you're applying internationally (I'm from Canada and I applied to the US, it can be very difficult as you can cost a lot more for them). But if you're applying to your own country and it's in a less competitive field of psychology, you shouldn't worry about a 3.55 with research if you can write a good statement and you make meaningful connections with the professors youre interested in before the application. PM me if you don't want to write that info out here!