GradSchoolGrad

I have lately heard a lot more talk about Grad students exhibiting savior complex. Let’s discuss this. 1. What is this? 2. What is this not (but potentially confused with)? 3. Good or bad and why so either way? 4. How have you seen impact grad school decisions, experience, outcomes, or etc.?

I would 100% confirm about the message from @chocolatecheesecake about Duke Sanford MPP from an outsider from another MPP school who has been around the MPP grad/student world a bit --> looking in perspective as well. Granted no school is perfect, I would say Duke Sanford MPP is super well rounded and a great school for anyone that wants career flexibility short of MBB consulting (no dual degree).

So these are my thoughts. 1. Granted IB and MBB looks impressive on a resume, I know people with a way slimmer resume than you who ended up working those organizations (granted they went entry route or contractor and then went up the ladder). I wouldn't hit yourself with that. 2. I think your real issue has nothing to do with brand but more so career paths. Business and economics are two related but academically speaking fundamentally different things. The reason why they like PhDs is because those roles deal with those economic analysis that PhDs have been trained on. Even if you get in as an HKS MPA-ID grad, you will most likely play 2nd fiddle to PhDs anyway. I a lot of such research organizations give top billing to PhDs while masters degree folks occupy this gray area where generally speaking they aren't as valued for their research credentials (or so what is what I have heard + people tell me). 3. As for age, I think there are 2 ways to think about this. One is yes, age discrimination past 30 is definitely a reality in the workplace in general for both male and female (obviously it impacts females more). I don't know that neck of the woods well enough to give you an assessment how that might really impact you. However, another way to think about it is that do you: A. As 43 year old want to work with a bunch of late 20s / early 30s PhDs or HKA MPA-IDs? B. As a 50 year old (because it takes about 5 to 7 years to establish credibility), but with a bunch of people in their early to late 30s. Honestly a big a chunk of any work place is the people you work with and if you aren't happy with the work environment, you probably won't be satisfied with your career situation. I recommend that if you care about international development, work with your resume and not against it. Use what you have to support non-profit entrepreneurship in developing countries / situations you are interested in.

Does having too many degrees begin to be a negative factor to employers at a certain point? or in general? Thoughts? My situation that makes me wonder I have a degree from undergrad and 2 different masters (fortunate enough to be sponsored for all 3). I was thinking that after my current job now for 5 years or so (maybe more, maybe less)... to pursue another master's degree for another career pivot. I'm just one of those people likes to do new things all the time and learn new things. Funding isn't issue (at least not now)... Time, that is something I need to think about personally. However, I have been warned that if I get more than what I have now, it becomes a negative to employers.

Aside from process... what are you trying to get out of this? From the MPP in particular? From combining in general? Career advantages? Time to wait out the recession...etc?

I think you are referring to PhD programs, which you are absolutely correct. I think a professor is assigned for recruiting/admissions (or at least to lead it). For master's programs (especially bigger ones that are considered terminal degrees) they have admissions teams where there are a lot of resources available.

I am not so much concerned by professors (agree with you on opportunity costs) per se but admissions offices with time on their hands.

It depends on if you are taking loans out or not + your career interest area. 1. If you would have to take loans out to go to MSFS, go to SAIS... period 2. If the economics isn't an issue and you don't really know what you want to when you grow up (especially if you don't care about the quant side of things), MSFS then begins to make more sense. However, from a brand or rankings perspective (at least for pure IR), it is moot point.

I think there should be three considerations. 1. How much do you value quant skills? With a rough economy coming through, I recommend you really value it because I have known many SAIS alums market that as their job finder. I think SAIS wins here 2. School experience. SIPA generally has a weaker community because the school's focus areas are so spread out + a lot of people have their NYC lives. I think SAIS wins here too. 3. What city you would like to end up with. NYC or DC or International --> This on you. I think with NYC SIPA obviously wins. SAIS wins DC. As for international, well that depends on where and for exactly what, and its too open of a question in my opinion unless you really know something you want to focus on in which either school has a discrete strength.

If you aren't a fan of the NE, Michigan Ford just launched an MPA, although it will require 5 years work experience, so that would mean you are only eligible for Fall. 2023. Honestly, people are so busy in grad school, to a certain extent location doesn't matter from an experience perspective. HOWEVER... there is much to be said about regional pull of schools.

Without a question SAIS. That CIPA program is first of all an MPA degree, and will be less valuable for banking, consulting, or marketing. 2nd, if you want to have a shot at working in US or Europe, SAIS has the connections and opportunities that might work out for you if you get lucky... CIPA is a brand new program that isn't even a school. Also, SAIS has an established International students population. while CIPA Is largely American --> so you'll be pretty lonely in CIPA. I also think each class is only about 20 or so.

1. I agree timing-wise Fall 2022 makes sense for all the reasons you mentioned 2. I do recommend that you at least have one "reach" school with a national brand to shoot for. I say this for 3 reasons. a. Some of them can have very generous scholarships as they are just trying to build the program period. b. You might as well try to see if you can do it in the first place before you count yourself out c. Strategically, it's a good way to understand your competition (regardless where you end up going). For you, I recommend you pick either U. Penn - Fels MPA (stronger in Non-Profit Leadership) or Cornell MPA (stronger in environmental) from "the reach category". However, any and all MPA program of remote value does require Stat and Econ (it is unavoidable) - FYI.

So in terms of schools, I think there are 3 ways you can think of this, and I recommend you pick a strategy. 1. Regional schools where you have connections... (which I think that is what you are approaching). I would agree that Evans is probably the best for the Northwest and that Humphrey is probably the best for The Minnesota/Iowa region. Generally speaking (exemptions are plenty), those schools generally have greatest appeal regionally in terms where people go for jobs + brand recognition from employers. If you absolutely know that you want to be close to family after graduation (which is financially smart) especially after a recession, I think a regional strategy makes sense. 2. National level schools where you have career flexibility because they are generally good at most things domestic policy related. If you want ultimate career flexibility and have an expansive network and brand nationally (maybe even internationally), I think this is the way to go. I would say that you options here are a bit limited. I'm sure some might agree with me, but I bet the "best" branded policy school you could realistically get into is probably Duke's Terry Sanford MPP program. Michigan's Ford MPA is another example I want to clarify that there is a difference between brand for the purpose of public policy and brand generally speaking. For example, Stanford, Cornell, and U. Penn have MPP or MPA programs where I think you have a decent shot of getting into... that obviously have an amazing brand and alumni network as a University. HOWEVER... their policy programs are simply not that good as a graduate program and they will have much less dedicated resources to support policy grad students vs. University of Indiana or Syracuse University, two of the top tier policy graduate programs. 3. Focused programs (if you are really willing to gamble that you are set with a policy area - i.e. environmental). If you know in your heart that you want to do environmental, another way to approach is to go for an environmental management / science / policy focused school. The top 3 in the country for this are - Yale Forestry and Environmental, Duke Nicholas School, and Michigan SEAS. If you get into any of these, traditionally they have a pretty good scholarship packages (I don't know how a COVID-19 level recession might change things). Ultimately, it is about what you think is the best long term strategy for your life. I can see you doing possibly any of these. Personally, I like #2 for myself if I were in your shoes because: A. I personally believe flexibility is important B. I think it is good to have high aspirations. Even if you elect to return to Colorado, coming from Duke, Michigan, or Yale will help you sparkle over someone locally (assuming you have a compelling story and made the right connections). C. You will have the peers that push you hardest How not to think about schools Do not think about it school blindly based off of brand without looking what they are good at (and that might require some detective work). I'll save you the detective work for Georgetown MPP. It is not good for environmental stuff + state and local stuff (which it sounds like what you are interested in). It is great for 3 general things in my opinion. 1. Federal powers related items, 2. International development, and 3. Data analysis angle MPP vs. MPA vs. MBA Very generally speaking, MPP and MPAs compete for the same jobs. However, in terms of classroom material, MPP tends to be more analytical and data focused while MPA tends have more managerial components. Beyond that, you have to drill down to the school level to distinguish differences. I only throw in MBA in there because as I said previously, more and more the most valued way to go into non-profit management is to get any MBA. So if you end up in a job you really like and might want to delay grad school for 2 years or so, an MBA might be the right answer for you if you are committed to non-profit management.

Well you are correct about it being more accepting. That is most likely true. HOWEVER... from a pure competitive perspective if you up for a slot against someone who for whatever reason doesn't have a resume gap, the other person will be better off. You already have one strike against you... (granted it can be mitigated with quality everything else + plus a well written letter), so another vulnerability doesn't really help (granted it will likely be highly be mitigated because of today's times). Again, these probably won't matter if your goal is to go to the schools that you mention. However, I once again challenge you to aspire to go to the best MPA school you can go to within financial reason. Someone could easily challenge me and say why because your average salary coming out + type of jobs are not going to be that significantly different. However, I would argue back this. 1. with a better program --> your range of options can increase. This matters because most of my friends who went to policy school changed their career interests at least somewhat between when they started and when they left. 2. It really can give you a wow factor that can benefit you down the line (granted it must be backed up by competence, experience, and communication skills). 3. You want to be in an environment where you have peers push you. What are better branded policy schools is a separate conversation... (because they do not necessarily correlate with undergrad branding).

1. Okay getting laid off changes things a little bit. I recommend you continue to do something, even if that is incorporating yourself and having a side hustle as YouTube or independent contractor. Breaks in resume begin to look suspicious and traditionally is associated with performance gaps. Granted, we live in extraordinary times and it is very understandable... However, historical biases die hard. 2. Depending on what school you go to, some decent state schools have graduation rates as low as 70% or so. In what is called terminal degree grad programs, they look really bad if they have graduation rates below 90%... and it isn't a good business operations. Grad schools are generally speaking money generators while undergrad programs are money losers (long story about that). If grad schools lose too many people, it becomes a bad business model. Not saying it is objectively easier in grad school, but the failure rate its less and it is exceedingly rare to hear anyone get below a B. You can relate that to fit, filtering out bad students, excitement for the subject and etc. However for you what that means is that an A from undergrad (since they generally have broadly understandable titles) means more than an A from a grad class (assuming that the admissions office can't discern if the the class is real or a BS class --> which is often the case).

1. I would challenge you to look at better schools. Depending on what additional academic cred you can get + what you GRE scores + usual admissions factors, you could very well end up at a better MPA program than what you would normally, and possibly do it with a scholarship. 2. I took undergrad classes. Part of this is because you can actually fail undergrad classes and it is actually easier to do well in grad school than undergrad. Honestly, there are some undergrad classes that are just as hard, if not harder than grad classes. Also keep in mind, that the programs are also getting people straight from under as well and normally other people with grad class experience. It is easier to compare with a similar frame of reference. Also, there might not be grad classes with the offerings that you need to compensate for your quant gap.

1. As for your statement, I recommend you have a friend (preferably someone who is a good writer --> like wrote for the school newspaper or something) help you out. It should pass the story/speech/news article test of being interesting and powerful (not to trivialize your experience or anything). 2. Environmental Studies is considered medium to above average in terms of difficulty... so... I think it helps. Obviously, UC-Boulder is a highly respected state school. 3. I wouldn't just take any class. A. I would look into classes that either replace core curriculum requirements in MPA programs of interest or at least set you up for success. The quant ones are usually what they look for in terms of transcripts. I recommend you look at what schools want first before you just willy nilly sign up for a class. B. I wouldn't just got to any local school. Getting an A from a JCO or community college doesn't really help your case (not being snobby, but fact of the matter). Since you are in Colorado, I recommend you look at Colorado State Online. Great brand and honestly it will probably be cheaper than CU Boulder. https://www.online.colostate.edu Since you would get in state tuition --> and no application. I think summer classes are around the corner. I used it to take stats classes to make the convincing case that I could handle the quant as someone who had never taking a quant class before. Oh and your transcript would be from Colorado State not some Colorado State extension or online --> which is the important thing!

First off... Having a 3.1 GPA with all circumstances considered is still impressive... Your situations is not impossible to over come. Some things that I don't know which can determine a lot of things... 1. The school you went to and 2. the difficulty of your major/s Obviously, it becomes easier to overcome if you a harder major (or honors thesis) + which to a higher end school. As for tips about the statement: 1. Avoid the jarring details and the direct tie-in and tell a story. If it doesn't sound like it could be a speech (within reason) or have the "dateline effect", please modify it. 2. Highlight what you did to overcome adversity to get what grades you did do to show that you are serious about academics. Also another tip. If you want to show how you are of decent academic caliber, I recommend you take a hard class at a nearby school (a reputable state school is fine --> I did 3 at Michigan State and Colorado State (Econ and statistics classes) and get an A. If the grad program you are looking at has pre-reqs or substitute undergrad classes that allow you to skip a grad school class, this is a great means to do so + show your academic chops. This does not mean sign up for Harvard Extension school for a leadership class. By signing up for a hard class, I legitimately mean something that will make and admissions office be impressed by your academic potential.

First of all, I want to highlight that there isn't exactly a well groomed pathway to Non-Profit management. People go to that career via lots of different routes, MPA certainly is one of them, but so is MBA, experts in the field with PhDs, and people who rose through a non-profit via working in it, and other graduate degrees. In fact, I would argue that one of the hottest ways to get into Non-Profit management this days (especially if there is major fund raising, innovation, data crunching, and/or financial component) is an MBA from a school that tends to welcome more social impact oriented roles. To answer your question directly, it is not like any Non-Profit will see that you went to one grad school over another and say wow I must hire this person. It is a combination of your career experience and the convincing story you can tell. Now, I will say that there is a lot to be said about alumni affinity and regional pull. If you want to stay in the Pacific NW, U of O will give you the most benefits. If you want to go NE, PSU will give you a minor advantage. Bottom line, I wouldn't go to grad school just for the sake of grad school, but identify a realistic pathway from the industry at large rather than target specific schools. Hence, I recommend thinking about how you might big picture get into non-profit management: 1. Via work opportunities 2. Via multiple different grad school routes (not just the ones you identified)

In something else regarding advice giving I do, I caught a University staff pretending to be a student in order to gather information. This has made me wonder on do you think: 1. University staff read this and utilize this forum to any degree? 2. Ever caught or suspect a University staff participate in this or pretend to be a student? *I have encountered Student Ambassadors and Alumni Ambassadors but I don't count them as staff.

Go to UMD ASAP. McCourt MPP might have the brand but unless you really want to go into consulting at Deloitte and maybe some nice research areas (i.e. Education in Tulsa), there is no real additional benefit in going there. Your career is more determined off of what internship experiences that you have. The Georgetown Alumni at large are pretty powerful and a large group, but honestly, they probably care about McCourt the least since it has much less prestige than the other more prestigious graduate programs. The MPP alumnus in it of itself don't really do much for themselves except maybe for a few niche areas (international. development being one). Especially in a recession, that 80K not going into doubt will be awesome. Also.... a lot of people don't manage to get GA positions in McCourt unless you know R or STATA now. The fact that you have a GA position already puts you in a solid position.

@e2e4 does bring up a really good point. Traditionally schools haven't gone after students who committed and don't show up. However, if you signed on the dotted line, they might be able to, depending on the structure of the scholarship. I knew someone who got trouble with the law because his acceptance to a Graduate degree program was tied to Federal Funding. He left the program while still having funding identified for him. Also, a lot of these admissions people know each other. Depending on how good of their relationship they are with each other, they might talk. Yes, they compete against each other ferociously too, but informal relationships and agreements are a real thing! If you really want to switch ships... you might want to be careful). Ethically, this is also frowned upon. In some schools, if you get an offer from a job and commit to it and back out, there can be repercussions (like denial of future career services). I mean at the end of the day it might not mean much... just be smart about this. Just saying...

Interesting read here about HKS that I stumbled upon. Haven't given it much thought to coherently respond... but thought it was interesting. https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2017/01/22/harvard-kennedy-school-america/2/

I definitely think there is a race to the bottom of getting more straight from undergrads across the board. From a business side that is smart because you are increasing demand and thereby expanding the market. However, from an education quality side, in my opinion it is watering down the education experience of policy schools. Don't get me wrong, some of my favorite people from grad school are straight from undergrads and they definitely actually perform better on average academically from what I have seen. However, their population forces the career services and other resources are catering experiences, resources, and etc. towards the lower end of the job market (entry level) rather than the higher ends. It used to be that HKS wasn't going to the straight from undergrad pool except for exceptional circumstances (i.e. prodigies with start ups / non-profits in college, certain special Federal fellowships/scholarship that support special government sponsored development programs).

wow... that was next to unheard of prior to this application cycle... (as in straight from undergrad going to HKS).