Is HGSE master's worth $60k debt?

[hopingforgradschool]

So I got accepted to HGSE's master's program in prevention science and haven't received financial aid info yet, but the worst case scenario is I will be borrowing the maximum $60k or so. Do you guys think this investment will be worth it? I will also have $35k in loans from undergrad, so my total will be just under $100k!!! I will also be going straight from undergrad so I won't have full-time work experience under my belt. Prevention science does have a required practicum so that will give me work experience. I also volunteered throughout high school and for several months in college at a bunch of education sites (after school programs and the like), so those might help in helping me find a job. I was so excited to get in, but I'm just not sure if I can or should shoulder this debt. My undergrad degree is in a soft science so I doubt I can get a job with it alone. What do you guys think? I welcome all opinions.

Edited March 29, 2011 by hopingforgradschool

[db2290]

So I got accepted to HGSE's master's program in prevention science and haven't received financial aid info yet, but the worst case scenario is I will be borrowing the maximum $60k or so. Do you guys think this investment will be worth it? I will also have $35k in loans from undergrad, so my total will be just under $100k!!! I will also be going straight from undergrad so I won't have full-time work experience under my belt. Prevention science does have a required practicum so that will give me work experience. I also volunteered throughout high school and for several months in college at a bunch of education sites (after school programs and the like), so those might help in helping me find a job. I was so excited to get in, but I'm just not sure if I can or should shoulder this debt. My undergrad degree is in a soft science so I doubt I can get a job with it alone. What do you guys think? I welcome all opinions.

It's tough. I'm starting the Ed.D at HGSE in the fall but I was seriously considering applying for the Ed.M at one point too. My considerations were as follows: 1) Like you, I have accumulated debt from undergrad and 2) Education isn't a lucrative career by any means, and therefore it won't be easy to pay it back. That said, you don't know what financial aid you will be offered, you can probably lessen their estimated costs by a few thousand by living frugally, and also earn some money doing Work Study placements.

I think you are right to question whether its the right thing. If you are really set on the program (and I know lots of people who did the prevention Ed.M and loved it) then I guess it's worth some of the sacrifice!

Best of luck with your decision

Edited March 29, 2011 by db2290

[ZeChocMoose]

So I got accepted to HGSE's master's program in prevention science and haven't received financial aid info yet, but the worst case scenario is I will be borrowing the maximum $60k or so. Do you guys think this investment will be worth it? I will also have $35k in loans from undergrad, so my total will be just under $100k!!! I will also be going straight from undergrad so I won't have full-time work experience under my belt. Prevention science does have a required practicum so that will give me work experience. I also volunteered throughout high school and for several months in college at a bunch of education sites (after school programs and the like), so those might help in helping me find a job. I was so excited to get in, but I'm just not sure if I can or should shoulder this debt. My undergrad degree is in a soft science so I doubt I can get a job with it alone. What do you guys think? I welcome all opinions.

When you graduate, what is the average starting salary for your field? Typically, it's best not to borrow more than the mean starting salary. Also, are there many jobs available for what you want to do? If you don't know the answers to either of these questions, then I would do more research so you know exactly what you are getting yourself into.

That being said, I think it is going to depend on a lot of different factors. How do you feel about being 100K in debt? Do you have any financial safety nets in place if you cannot immediately begin paying back your loans or if your starting salary is lower than expected. Personally, 100K would be too much for me in the field of education.

I think the other issue that I see since you are going straight from undergraduate and haven't worked full-time is that you don't quite understand how onerous monthly loan payments can be especially when you need to pay for other monthly expenses such as rent, utilities, food, and transportation. Believe me, it can begin to add up. Once you start working full time and have a better picture of how much you need each month to keep afloat, you may view 100K in debt differently. I know when I was in college, I didn't have a good understanding of what my undergraduate loans really translated into each month and what that would mean for my financial future. How I viewed debt then and how I view debt now is worlds apart especially debt as large as three figures.

I wish you the best of luck with your decision.

Edited March 30, 2011 by ZeChocMoose

[gradmau5]

i asked myself the same question when i decided to come here, and it is TOTALLY worth it.

there are way too many opportunities (both academic and career-wise) to NOT come and take advantage of that acceptance letter. i had to take out some loans, but they were all federal...not private, which is a much better option.

i considered PSP but i decided on TIE instead, but anyways.....this place is AWESOME. i am already sad that my time ends here in May!

anywho...i say come. its a great place.

[hopingforgradschool]

Thank you all for your opinions. I will do some research on the kinds of jobs that will be available to me as a PSP grad but if any of you have insights on that, I would greatly appreciate it. I've been in contact with the career services office and several students asking for their perspective. I've tried contacting financial aid also but I think they're busy calculating packages so they haven't gotten back to me yet.

It's kinda depressing getting into such a great program and not having the means to pay for it. Originally, I was all for taking out loans especially if it's for Harvard, but then I realize I might just be digging myself into a deep hole. I come from a poor family so there's pressure on me to be self-sufficient and start paying off my undergrad loans. This will be an agonizing decision for sure.

[gradmau5]

Thank you all for your opinions. I will do some research on the kinds of jobs that will be available to me as a PSP grad but if any of you have insights on that, I would greatly appreciate it. I've been in contact with the career services office and several students asking for their perspective. I've tried contacting financial aid also but I think they're busy calculating packages so they haven't gotten back to me yet.

It's kinda depressing getting into such a great program and not having the means to pay for it. Originally, I was all for taking out loans especially if it's for Harvard, but then I realize I might just be digging myself into a deep hole. I come from a poor family so there's pressure on me to be self-sufficient and start paying off my undergrad loans. This will be an agonizing decision for sure.

i guess the best you can do is be patient and wait for your fin aid package. if it's not enough, there's no rule that you can't further discuss with the fin aid dept about the hardship you would face. never hurts to ask. best of luck!

[hopingforgradschool]

Just received my FA package today. Got 8,500 federal subsidized loans; 12,000 federal unsubsidized, and $6,000 federal Perkins. According to the accompanying brochure, the first two figures are the maximum amounts granted for each type, but I'm not sure about Perkins (this website says the maximum is $8,000: http://www.studentlo...ans/perkins.php). Additionally, I'm offered $11,400 in grants and $5,000 in work-study, bringing the total awards to $42,900. Since the cost of attendance is $61,172, I will have to take out $18,272 in private loans. Does anybody know the maximum amount of grants HGSE can offer? I'm hoping they can at least match Penn's $13,500. Of course, I will be asking HGSE these questions as well. Would love to hear from others who were able to bargain successfully though.

Edited March 31, 2011 by hopingforgradschool

[Ed_Doc]

Just received my FA package today. Got 8,500 federal subsidized loans; 12,000 federal unsubsidized, and $6,000 federal Perkins. According to the accompanying brochure, the first two figures are the maximum amounts granted for each type, but I'm not sure about Perkins (this website says the maximum is $8,000: http://www.studentlo...ans/perkins.php). Additionally, I'm offered $11,400 in grants and $5,000 in work-study, bringing the total awards to $42,900. Since the cost of attendance is $61,172, I will have to take out $18,272 in private loans. Does anybody know the maximum amount of grants HGSE can offer? I'm hoping they can at least match Penn's $13,500. Of course, I will be asking HGSE these questions as well. Would love to hear from others who were able to bargain successfully though.

The $62k cost of attendance includes *estimated* costs for lodging, food, and recreation, no? I am a HGSE EdM alumn (07) and finishing my second year of the EdD program there, and it's my opinion that the cost-of-living estimates they give are quite conservative. You can find housing and control your food and recreations budgets in such a way to cut it drastically. I did much the same my EdM year...I lived in a small shared apartment in Alston, just over the river, and I can't tell you how many nights I ate ramen noodles and/or hot dogs for dinner. It was all worth it, in the end, as I didn't have to take out any extra loans.

The admissions Dean will tell you early and often: live like a student. As long as Harvard's package covers tuition and fees, I would be inclined to say "tighten your belt and go for it."

[rhianita]

Just received my FA package today. Got 8,500 federal subsidized loans; 12,000 federal unsubsidized, and $6,000 federal Perkins. According to the accompanying brochure, the first two figures are the maximum amounts granted for each type, but I'm not sure about Perkins (this website says the maximum is $8,000: http://www.studentlo...ans/perkins.php). Additionally, I'm offered $11,400 in grants and $5,000 in work-study, bringing the total awards to $42,900. Since the cost of attendance is $61,172, I will have to take out $18,272 in private loans. Does anybody know the maximum amount of grants HGSE can offer? I'm hoping they can at least match Penn's $13,500. Of course, I will be asking HGSE these questions as well. Would love to hear from others who were able to bargain successfully though.

On the HGSE website, it states that the maximum need based grant is $11,400, but maybe you can try for more.

They may not match Penn's 13,500 because ---the tuition is higher at Penn,so you have to think about it in terms of the real amount over tuition. When you look at it that way, the wards are almost identical.

Good luck!

[michigan girl]

Also consider GradPLUS federal loans instead of private loans. Stay away from private loans if you can!

[Airwick]

I hope to meet motivated, like-minded people who are interested in starting an education initiative, so I am more than willing to take out a loan in pursuit of this dream...

Edited April 4, 2011 by Airwick

[Reinventing]

With that level of debt, your total monthly loan payments would be around $1,000, right? And with interest, you might actually end up paying back closer to $125,000 in the end. I would only take on that level of debt if I couldn't live doing something else, and would be miserable every day of my life if I weren't doing this kind of work, even though it meant I'd have to live with 10-15 years of incredible financial stress.

And knowing what I know now, if I actually had that perspective, I would talk to a lot of people in the field to learn about the realities of that work, do extensive research on salaries and opportunities, and invest time and/or money in career counseling with a reputable counselor to make sure I was really being honest with myself about the other opportunities in life.

There are plenty of people who get into these schools who don't have a concept that $100,000 (or $125,000) is actually a huge amount of money to a lot of people. There are others who have not yet experienced loan repayment. Taking the loans is much easier and quicker than paying them back. There's also a lot of hype that "education debt is good debt." But take it with a grain of salt. Education is much more expensive than it was for previous generations, a large return on the investment is not guaranteed by any stretch, and ed debt never goes away (as you know, it can't be discharged by bankuptcy).

Personally, I would not do this. Crunch the numbers and see if it's worth it to you. That's really what it comes down to. But if you wanted to hear from someone who says, "That's crazy. Unconscionable, even," well, I'll say it.

I would recommend trying to keep the education debt less than 10% of your total expected yearly pay (before taxes). So if you expect to get a job offer for $50k, keep your monthly debt bill at $500 a month (this means you could probably afford to accumulate $50k of debt total between your two degrees, grad and undergrad). $500 a month will still be quite a dent (you probably won't be eating out, buying nice clothes, or going on vacation for a while), but it will be manageable. Any more than that probably wouldn't be worth the financial stress level.

I have known several people who got into Ivies and turned them down to avoid putting themselves in financial dire straits. They accepted lesser schools with funding and are doing quite well. I also know a few Ivy grads, and they are pretty candid about the obnoxious and limiting level of their debt load.

Edited April 8, 2011 by ruralworks4me

[db2290]

It would almost be better to try and do a funded Ed.D/Ph.D, and save yourself the mountains of accumulated debt. If education really is your passion, this seems like a good compromise...

[hopingforgradschool]

I'm a very frugal spender so if I do manage to get a $50k job, I think I'll be able to pay off $1,000 per month just fine (I rarely buy clothes or eat out, spend little on entertainment, dislike shopping, etc). The question is if I can get a job like that in the first place. If yes, then I will not hesitate to accept the offer.

Edited April 9, 2011 by hopingforgradschool

[ZeChocMoose]

I'm a very frugal spender so if I do manage to get a $50k job, I think I'll be able to pay off $1,000 per month just fine (I rarely buy clothes or eat out, spend little on entertainment, dislike shopping, etc). The question is if I can get a job like that in the first place. If yes, then I will not hesitate to accept the offer.

One thing to think about you will probably end up losing 15-20% of that 50K due to taxes and healthcare costs. So the 1K a month may end up being about 30% of your take home pay. (This also assumes that securing a job that pays 50K is a reasonable expectation-- which I have no idea. I know in my field (higher education) it is not. Recent master's students (that have limited experience) usually get paid between 35 - 45K.) I definitely agree with ruralworks4me, crunch the numbers to figure out what that is going to look like.

The other question is-- do you have other options for graduate school? If you do and they would be more affordable, I would explore them as well especially if you plan to pursue a doctorate at some point.

Edited April 9, 2011 by ZeChocMoose

[HREeducation]

Hi Hoping,

I'm in a similar situation. I was accepted into a Masters program at Stanford, but with zero funding. I visited and loved it. It really was/is my dream school, dream place, dream(ish) faculty! My loan debt will also be close to 100,000 after completing the masters, and I'm having a hard time accepting the decision with that kind of financial stress looming over me. I also got into Penn with 13,500 and a program at U Chicago with half tuition. After talking to a few faculty from my undergrad, I've decided I must take these offers seriously and go visit.

I'm wondering, what is your impression of Penn? Fortunately, since I was admitted so late, I have longer to decide and can plan a quick visit there for next week. Did you visit? Have you talked with anyone there?

So many people in my life are saying I'd be crazy NOT to go to Stanford, but they also won't be the ones dealing with this debt after my year in paradise is over ( ).

Let me know what you're thinking about Penn!

[jortin10]

I would take the debt. If you look on higheredjobs.com and idealist.com, there are many jobs well in the $50k-$100k+ out there, so earning the salary is not an problem/excuse. I have 2 years advising experience and 2 years teaching, and turned down a government job in the field of education with a salary of $76k-$84k.

Another thing to remember, you are going into the field of education, THUS Loan Forgiveness Program for Nonprofit Employees.

Public service jobs include teachers, first responders (policy, fire, EMT), public librarians, social workers, public defenders and prosecutors, and people who work for tax-exempt charitable organizations. It also includes people who work for the government and the military. Loan forgiveness means that the the federal government will cancel all student loan debt that remains after 10 years of public service.

What public (government) employers qualify as eligible employers for the PSLF Program?

Any federal government, state government, local government, or tribal government entity (including the military, public schools and colleges, public child and family services agencies, and special governmental districts) is an eligible employer for the PSLF Program. Eligible non-profit employers include those that have received a 501©(3) designation from the IRS. These include most private schools, colleges, and universities, as well as thousands of other organizations, agencies, and charities.(February 3, 2010)

http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/LoanForgivenessv4.pdf

http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/PSLF_QAs_final_02%2012%2010.pdf

[hopingforgradschool]

Hey guys, so I ultimately chose Harvard over Columbia, Stanford, and Penn. I've been here just over a week and I already feel I made the right decision. In just my first week, I've already made fantastic connections with people (students, faculty, staff) who have such rich experiences and connections to the education world (and beyond) that I'm not worried at all about finding a job afterwards. I know there will always be something out there, even if it might take me a few weeks to land a gig. Worst case scenario, you can always teach in Asia My professors are amazing and topnotch in their fields. Being in their classes motivates me to push myself harder than ever, and it's really inspiring.

Everybody is so approachable and genuinely friendly here it's like grad school heaven. People literally are not afraid to introduce themselves to people they haven't met, and the well-funded social events don't hurt in facilitating such connections. People also organize their own parties and the members of different programs are not cliquey at all. At HGSE, I truly feel anything is possible. It's easy to tell money flows through this place. Programs are well-funded, the classrooms are world-class (though the exterior of some buildings at HGSE might not be so aesthetically pleasing), grants are very accessible to students who have a compelling idea and want to go with it. Just this first week, people have already formed groups around various issues like Autism Research and the Philosophy of Education. That's the great thing about HGSE- it's the perfect size. It's not too small like Stanford's or too big like Columbia's. It's great for forming a lot of connections that are actually sustainable because you will be seeing some of these same people everyday on campus. HGSE students also have a lot of pride in the institution and the Graduate School of Education is seen as very prestigious and noble in the university all around.

After all I've experienced so far (and like I said, it's only been about a week), I don't even want to think back about how things would've been different for me had I decided not to come. I know this experience will transform me in ways I can't even imagine right now. If you get into HGSE, just go! But if you're still ambivalent, I'm pretty sure a visit will convince you.

[hopingforgradschool]

Hi everyone, I'm the original poster. I was deciding whether to attend HGSE in spring 2011. I ultimately decided to attend HGSE (HDP...I requested a switch due to the more flexible requirements) over Stanford (POLS), Penn, and Columbia and graduated in 2012. I just want to say that I can't even imagine my life if I had turned HGSE down. It would have been the biggest mistake of my life!

 

I came to HGSE straight from undergrad with no full-time work experience...BUT fast forward to 2014, I've founded my own education-related (and HDP-related) company in Boston and am on-track to making hundreds of thousands per year in profit (and millions in revenue). I'm happy to report that I've paid back my loans 100% as of 2013. This was a most unexpected outcome but the HGSE name truly has opened doors for me. If anything, being at HGSE gave me an unexpected extra boost of confidence to challenge myself and transform my ideas into reality. The HGSE credential is also very useful when it comes to getting $,$$$,$$$ investment from angel investors and VCs. If you get in and are pepared to challenge yourself, DO IT!!!!!! Best decision of my life.

Edited March 11, 2014 by hopingforgradschool

[SCGH]

Hi everyone, I'm the original poster. I was deciding about whether to attend HGSE in spring 2011. I ultimately decided to attend HGSE (HDP...I requested a switch due to the more flexible requirements) over Stanford (POLS), Penn, and Columbia and graduated in 2012. I just want to say that I can't even imagine my life if I had turned HGSE down. It would have been the biggest mistake of my life!

I came to HGSE straight from undergrad with no full-time work experience...BUT fast forward to 2014, I've founded my own education-related (and HDP-related) company in Boston and am on-track to making hundreds of thousands per year in profit (and millions in revenue). I'm happy to report that I've paid back my loans 100% as of 2013. This was a most unexpected outcome but the HGSE name truly has opened doors for me. If anything, being at HGSE gave me an unexpected extra boost of confidence to challenge myself and transform my ideas into reality. The HGSE credential is also very useful when it comes to getting $,$$$,$$$ investment from angel investors and VCs. If you get in and are pepared to challenge yourself, DO IT!!!!!! Best decision of my life.

Wow that's great! Thanks for bringing the thread full circle. I am planning to go to the Visit Days (EPM) and would love to pick your brain on your experience if you have time. My story is pretty different from yours, but face the challenge of leaving a pretty lucrative career that I don't love to pursue education.

[phil413]

Hey guys, so I ultimately chose Harvard over Columbia, Stanford, and Penn. I've been here just over a week and I already feel I made the right decision. In just my first week, I've already made fantastic connections with people (students, faculty, staff) who have such rich experiences and connections to the education world (and beyond) that I'm not worried at all about finding a job afterwards. I know there will always be something out there, even if it might take me a few weeks to land a gig. Worst case scenario, you can always teach in Asia My professors are amazing and topnotch in their fields. Being in their classes motivates me to push myself harder than ever, and it's really inspiring.

Everybody is so approachable and genuinely friendly here it's like grad school heaven. People literally are not afraid to introduce themselves to people they haven't met, and the well-funded social events don't hurt in facilitating such connections. People also organize their own parties and the members of different programs are not cliquey at all. At HGSE, I truly feel anything is possible. It's easy to tell money flows through this place. Programs are well-funded, the classrooms are world-class (though the exterior of some buildings at HGSE might not be so aesthetically pleasing), grants are very accessible to students who have a compelling idea and want to go with it. Just this first week, people have already formed groups around various issues like Autism Research and the Philosophy of Education. That's the great thing about HGSE- it's the perfect size. It's not too small like Stanford's or too big like Columbia's. It's great for forming a lot of connections that are actually sustainable because you will be seeing some of these same people everyday on campus. HGSE students also have a lot of pride in the institution and the Graduate School of Education is seen as very prestigious and noble in the university all around.

After all I've experienced so far (and like I said, it's only been about a week), I don't even want to think back about how things would've been different for me had I decided not to come. I know this experience will transform me in ways I can't even imagine right now. If you get into HGSE, just go! But if you're still ambivalent, I'm pretty sure a visit will convince you.

 

Hoping,

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences, and I'm glad to hear you're doing well. I'm currently deciding between Stanford (ICE) and HGSE (HDP) as well, and it is a tough decision. Your insights have surely helped.

 

However, not to pick a fight here (I really have no intention), but what did you mean by "Worst case scenario, you can always teach in Asia "?   I may have been wrong in my interpretation, but I couldn't help being bothered by this statement, as it seems slightly callous and generalizing to me. Why is this the "worst case scenario?" It is many people's, especially those with a heart for certain Asian populations, "best case scenario". And it did come across as if finding a teaching job in Asia would be your last and easily attainable resort. Again, I may be too sensitive here, but I'm surprised at what seems to be such a casual, throwaway comment from a HGSE grad and fellow educator, so I would just like to understand.

Edited March 11, 2014 by phil413

[NoChance]

Wow!  I was actually reading this thread, thinking, "Wouldn't it be awesome to figure out where this person is and see how things turned out?" That's pretty great, and comes at a good time for me as I've pretty much jumped in the Harvard boat before I've gotten my financial details. Also, thanks for the reminder that I'm not going to HGSE to be just a cog in the wheel.

 

 

However, not to pick a fight here (I really have no intention), but what did you mean by "Worst case scenario, you can always teach in Asia "?   I may have been wrong in my interpretation, but I couldn't help being bothered by this statement, as it seems slightly callous and generalizing to me. Why is this the "worst case scenario?" It is many people's, especially those with a heart for certain Asian populations, "best case scenario". And it did come across as if finding a teaching job in Asia would be your last and easily attainable resort. Again, I may be too sensitive here, but I'm surprised at what seems to be such a casual, throwaway comment from a HGSE grad and fellow educator, so I would just like to understand.

 

I see this point, but I understand what the OP is getting at. It's definitely not a shot at anybody who actively wants to work in education in Asia. It's something that I've thought myself, having already taught in Korea. Since I left Korea, I've always felt that I had that opportunity in my back pocket in case things didn't work out at home or abroad somewhere else. Why? The pay is pretty good and the jobs are reasonably easy to come by. That in no way diminishes the value of teaching in Asia or the people who choose to do so. I have plenty of friends who chose to stay in Korea and for them, teaching there is definitely a "best case scenario." I think what the OP is trying to say here is that teaching in Asia is by no means his first choice of employment, but that it's ultimately not such a bad fate. No hard feelings were meant. At least that's how I interpreted it.

[hopingforgradschool]

Phil413, no offense intended. I'm actually Asian myself and have family there. I was simply referring to the fact that more teaching jobs with competitive compensation are available in Asia (at least Korea, HK, Taiwan, Japan, China, and Singapore) than in other parts of the world. I have no qualms about moving to Asia to grow my venture since the demand there for a quality education is so strong, and many of the cities are able to provide a high-quality standard of living.

[psych111]

Hopingforgradschool,

Thanks for sharing your story. I was recently admitted to the EdM in HDP program. How many students were in your cohort and what does the class size topically look like?

[phil413]

Wow!  I was actually reading this thread, thinking, "Wouldn't it be awesome to figure out where this person is and see how things turned out?" That's pretty great, and comes at a good time for me as I've pretty much jumped in the Harvard boat before I've gotten my financial details. Also, thanks for the reminder that I'm not going to HGSE to be just a cog in the wheel.

 

 

 

I see this point, but I understand what the OP is getting at. It's definitely not a shot at anybody who actively wants to work in education in Asia. It's something that I've thought myself, having already taught in Korea. Since I left Korea, I've always felt that I had that opportunity in my back pocket in case things didn't work out at home or abroad somewhere else. Why? The pay is pretty good and the jobs are reasonably easy to come by. That in no way diminishes the value of teaching in Asia or the people who choose to do so. I have plenty of friends who chose to stay in Korea and for them, teaching there is definitely a "best case scenario." I think what the OP is trying to say here is that teaching in Asia is by no means his first choice of employment, but that it's ultimately not such a bad fate. No hard feelings were meant. At least that's how I interpreted it.

 

 

Phil413, no offense intended. I'm actually Asian myself and have family there. I was simply referring to the fact that more teaching jobs with competitive compensation are available in Asia (at least Korea, HK, Taiwan, Japan, China, and Singapore) than in other parts of the world. I have no qualms about moving to Asia to grow my venture since the demand there for a quality education is so strong, and many of the cities are able to provide a high-quality standard of living.

 

 

That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying, guys .