Venting Thread

[The_Last_Thylacine]

1 hour ago, 753982 said:

I feel the same way about my GRE scores. I scored similarly to you (only I had a very slightly higher total score). I definitely think I could score better with more prep and better peri-testing nutrition, but given what I've read on here and on philosophy blogs about the importance of the GRE I doubt I'd retake it myself, nor would I likely want to go through this process again without an additional qualification, like an MA from a reputable terminal MA program. Props to those of you who can bear putting yourselves through the application process more than once, though (especially with the expenses being what they are). 

I suppose we may be allowing ourselves to fret too much, given many schools still haven't released any decisions. But that doesn't change the stressfulness of the process, unfortunately.

Are you interested in the philosophy of law, or perhaps a law-philosophy academic career (ala Brian Leiter)?

I am very interested in the philosophy of law! My main area of interest involves the intersection of epistemology with legal propostions, and you are correct! I hope to teach legal philosophy at a law school someday. A lot of people ask me why I am studying law in the first place. I was homeschooled, and my Dad pretty much told me that I was going to be a lawyer all growing up. My Dad is a very intelligent physician---the number one graduate of his medical school--- but he views/viewed philosophy as largely worthless, and I had adopted his views (because as a homeschooled child, he was constructively my only influence). Then I discovered philosophy after I was already accepted to law school when I was 20 and in my senior year of college. I wish I had known that I wanted to be a philosopher much earlier so I could have prepared more adequately.

The faculty at my law school are imbibed with Natural Law Theory, but I am quite nonplussed with regard to Thomas Aquinas. Natural Law is a research interest of mine, and I would love to study under J. Budziszewski, but I'm opposed to any application of NLT. My writing sample is a systematic criticism of the various natural law traditions actually. 

All in all, you're right---it's too early to despair. I'm looking forward to seeing things unfold over the next two months! What are your research interests, and how did you become interested in philosophy?

[The_Last_Thylacine]

I'll never need to vent again after all this. 

[753982]

28 minutes ago, desolesiii said:

I am very interested in the philosophy of law! My main area of interest involves the intersection of epistemology with legal propostions, and you are correct! I hope to teach legal philosophy at a law school someday. A lot of people ask me why I am studying law in the first place. I was homeschooled, and my Dad pretty much told me that I was going to be a lawyer all growing up. My Dad is a very intelligent physician---the number one graduate of his medical school--- but he views/viewed philosophy as largely worthless, and I had adopted his views (because as a homeschooled child, he was constructively my only influence). Then I discovered philosophy after I was already accepted to law school when I was 20 and in my senior year of college. I wish I had known that I wanted to be a philosopher much earlier so I could have prepared more adequately.

The faculty at my law school are imbibed with Natural Law Theory, but I am quite nonplussed with regard to Thomas Aquinas. Natural Law is a research interest of mine, and I would love to study under J. Budziszewski, but I'm opposed to any application of NLT. My writing sample is a systematic criticism of the various natural law traditions actually. 

All in all, you're right---it's too early to despair. I'm looking forward to seeing things unfold over the next two months! What are your research interests, and how did you become interested in philosophy?

See, I've never studied any philosophy of law (the only encounter I had was perhaps reading The Apology and Socrates' comments on "Law" as a form), but I found political philosophy interesting, so I wouldn't doubt that I might find philosophy of law interesting as well. With regard to your Dad, I know the feeling of not really knowing anyone who can really "understand" the philosophy thing. A family friend told me he could understand wanting to be a philosopher, though, as I guess he himself had taken some philosophy classes in college and enjoyed them, but he did warn me that those jobs are probably pretty hard to come by (definitely true). He ended up in a professional field. It's disappointing that your Dad doesn't understand the value of philosophy (or even see it as marginally valuable).

Out of curiosity, did you enjoy law school subjects?  I suspect one of the worries for those interested in law school as a "back-up" option to graduate school or employment in philosophy is that the material could seem pretty dry and tedious in comparison to reading Plato or thinking about free will. 

I encountered philosophy first through the Internet I think, and so, after that, I took a class on it as a general education requirement (as a result of being exposed to it some online) and really enjoyed studying and thinking about it, so I decided to major in it. I wish that I would've known about philosophy before college, because I could've finished up everything sooner. My research interests are in ethics and epistemology primarily. I find about every area of philosophy interesting, though, lol. I would say I lean towards being more analytical, but I find continental philosophers' work substantive and interesting too. My hope is that the broadness of my interests at this point in time won't present a huge issue for me if I end up getting accepted. It's probably hard to do substantive work in an area of philosophy without specializing some, given the knowledge-upkeep requirements.

Edited January 28, 2017 by 753982

[hector549]

59 minutes ago, desolesiii said:

On the practice tests I was taking, one of the Verbal sections had a longer sample from a Constitutional law treatise on Marburry v. Madison (a subject matter with which I'm more familiar). I scored a 166 on that practice test, so I thought I would be fine. On the actual test, I froze up. I rushed through the final three Verbal questions, and was barely able to skim the final paragraph on anthropology. Maybe it was the headache, maybe it was something else, but the GRE was a fiasco for me. I think I could have raised my quantitative score by about 5 points with only a few weeks of study if I had just had the time back then, and I could have raised my verbal score by three points through happenstance. I only had two math classes in college, and they were six years ago. I'm glad you were able to score well despite your work schedule, but I'm admittedly a little bit envious too.  

Working at a golf course was not the most ideal job for someone wanting to study, but I've been doing this for the last six years during the summer. I woke up at 4:55 every day (I am by no definition a "morning person"), would get home around 3:30--5:30 after digging ditches, mowing fairways, or watering greens in 85--95 degree heat, and then all I would wanted to do was sleep. Please don't misunderstand me: I'm very thankful for that job because it allowed me to pay rent through my fall semester---it's just that I can't write explanations like this into my statement of purpose. What type of job are you planning on quitting?

Ultimately, it was a blessing that I submitted my apps early. I received two A's and two B's last semester in law school. In a class of 30, the professors will usually only award 4 A's. The median GPA is 2.5 for first year students so they can weed out those who fall below a 2.0 (my class started with 107 and fell to 80 after the conclusion of the first year because 27 people "failed out"), and then the school changed the median to 2.7 for 2L's and 3L's; however, this past year they must have felt bad for us receiving all these dehumanizing grades, so they upped the median to 2.9--3.1 for my last year. At my law school, a "D" is a passing grade as long as you maintain above a 2.0 cumulative GPA, and those receiving the highest "A" are awarded a "Book Award" in front of the whole law school at a ceremony. Those graduating with above a 2.8 are usually considered good students who are usually projected to pass the bar exam on the first try. Indeed the law school aphorism is: "A-students make law professors; B-students make judges; and C-students make the money." It looks as though I'll be a judge at this rate. 

I got the highest "A" in our philosophy of law class, but I did not receive a Book Award because the school policy was apparently that there must be 8 J.D. students in the class for a student to be eligible for a book award. Unfortunately, one of the eight students in our Jurisprudence class was a Master's student, and Master's students are graded separately and far more leniently. Master's students are given a B pretty much for showing up to class. Our (the J.D. student's) grades are based upon one cumulative, in-class, timed, final exam, which is usually several essays, but some have been multiple choice or a combination of the two. Most students elect to take summer classes so that they can avoid having to study for five cumulative finals at the same time; however, I did not have enough money to afford this option. I've gotten hammered by brutal exam seasons---except for this past year in which I only had four, so I'm very thankful I submitted my applications, as early as possible. 

Wow! I'm so sorry for becoming hypergraphic, but I needed to get all of this "off my chest." I couldn't reduce all of my academic peregrination to writing for my statement of purpose, but I hope my writing sample is cogent. To anyone who actually read all of this, thank you for witnessing my wanderings.:'( I consider myself to be personable, caring, as well as a good lecturer and editor, so I hope some department will at least grant me an interview. 

Honestly, I bet you'll do fine. Everybody has weaknesses of one kind or another in their application profiles, along with various strengths. For example, my grades are good, and GRE is sufficient, etc, but I bounced around between institutions, changed majors, took a few years off, and finally transferred and finished up a BA in philosophy rather quickly. Then I took more time off before applying to graduate programs! Is this a weakness? I'd guess it might be, but I have strengths that I hope make it less important. So don't give up yet! Your strengths are likely stronger than your weaknesses.

To answer your question, I currently work in web design and development. Although I enjoy the logical aspects of it, it's not especially meaningful work to me, and the work environment is very unstimulating. I've had many different jobs, and they've all served to show me that being a scholar and teacher is what I most enjoy.

Edited January 28, 2017 by jkm871

[The_Last_Thylacine]

15 minutes ago, 753982 said:

See, I've never studied any philosophy of law (the only encounter I had was perhaps reading The Apology and Socrates' comments on "Law" as a form), but I found political philosophy interesting, so I wouldn't doubt that I might find philosophy of law interesting as well. With regard to your Dad, I know the feeling of not really knowing anyone who can really "understand" the philosophy thing. A family friend told me he could understand wanting to be a philosopher, as I guess he himself had taken some philosophy classes in college and enjoyed them, but he did warn me that those jobs are probably pretty hard to come by (definitely true). He ended up in a professional field. It's disappointing that your Dad doesn't understand the value of philosophy (or even see it as marginally valuable).

Out of curiosity, did you enjoy law school subjects?  I suspect one of the worries for those interested in law school as a "back-up" option to graduate school or employment in philosophy is that the material could seem pretty dry and tedious in comparison to reading Plato or thinking about free will. 

I encountered philosophy first through the Internet I think, and so, after that, I took a class on it as a general education requirement (as a result of being exposed to it some online) and really enjoyed studying and thinking about it, so I decided to major in it. I wish that I would've known about philosophy before college, because I could've finished up everything sooner. My research interests are in ethics and epistemology primarily. I find about every area of philosophy interesting, though, lol. I would say I lean towards being more analytical, but I find continental philosophers' work substantive and interesting too. My hope is that the broadness of my interests at this point in time won't present a huge issue for me if I end up getting accepted. It's probably hard to do substantive work in an area of philosophy without specializing some, given the knowledge-upkeep requirements.

In regard to my love of philosophy, my family members have said little things like "he'll grow out of it" or "philosophy is great, but you'll have to come back to the 'real' world someday." I'm sure a lot of us know how disparaging the general public can be toward philosophers though. Every day I spend without hemlock in my stomach is a good day!

Law school is tedious, the subject matter is boring, and mostly deals with overwhelming memorization. I emphasize the word "overwhelming" because unless you're a wunderkind, you'll be inundated with reading all the time for your first two years. My least favorite class was criminal law, because criminal law is more about developing specious and ostentatious arguments. At least personally, I don't want to have a mercenary intellect that is subject to the whim of my clients, and I have a scruple about being disingenuous toward a jury. My favorite non-theory class was Contracts though. Admittedly, I enjoy drafting contracts. It's an interesting strategy game that involves negotiating with the other side and then trying to employ an artifice to prevail with the best terms for your client. Judges can be unpredictable, so most of law involve writing an argument and wishing for the best.

Law school is a good back up plan, however, if for no other reason than that you'll genuinely become proficient at skills like writing, public speaking, and learning how to condense lectures into an outline. Again, a lot of people make a lot of jokes about lawyers being greedy, unscrupulous, and unpleasant opportunists, but all the of lawyers I've met have been kind and humble people. A lot of them are workaholics and borderline alcoholics because they're so concerned for their clients. 

I think it's good that you have a wide range of interests. You could be like the family doctor of philosophers---refer the student to a specialist in the off-chance that you don't know the answer to a specific question! Where have you applied? 

[The_Last_Thylacine]

41 minutes ago, jkm871 said:

Honestly, I bet you'll do fine. Everybody has weaknesses of one kind or another in their application profiles, along with various strengths. For example, my grades are good, and GRE is sufficient, etc, but I bounced around between institutions, changed majors, took a few years off, and finally transferred and finished up a BA in philosophy rather quickly. Then I took more time off before applying to graduate programs! Is this a weakness? I'd guess it might be, but I have strengths that I hope make it less important. So don't give up yet! Your strengths are likely stronger than your weaknesses.

To answer your question, I currently work in web design and development. Although I enjoy the logical aspects of it, it's not especially meaningful work to me, and the work environment is very unstimulating. I've had many different jobs, and they've all served to show me that being a scholar and teacher is what I most enjoy.

As long as you weren't in prison, I really can't imagine why a haitus from academia would be all that bad for your application. In some analogical way, I can imagine your frustration with web design. I hope you can escape from the cubicle life!

[majorshake]

Not to take away from your discussion above guys, but.. 

 

God damn I'm ready to hear some results for my apps. I know some of the other programs have been releasing offers already, and none of mine are even predicted for the next two weeks, and the anxiety isn't so much killing me, as making me insufferable to anyone around me.

[Bryterlayter]

12 hours ago, majorshake said:

Not to take away from your discussion above guys, but.. 

 

God damn I'm ready to hear some results for my apps. I know some of the other programs have been releasing offers already, and none of mine are even predicted for the next two weeks, and the anxiety isn't so much killing me, as making me insufferable to anyone around me.

Totally feel the same way. My first predicted is February 3rd but the majority are February 10-March 1, and I'll be out of town when I should be receiving 4-6 answers :/ Trying to stay calm and collected about all of this but most people are sick of me complaining and freaking out about all of this. I just want to be done with it already.

[matchamatcha]

A lot of my predictions are slated to come out around my birthday (mid-late Feb).  At least I'll have cake and wine to drown my sorrows as the barrage of rejections come in.

[Kingoftherats]

If I get one more phone call from a telemarketer or wrong number, i'm putting my phone in the oven. I think i've had about twenty in the last two weeks. 

[menge]

20 minutes ago, Kingoftherats said:

If I get one more phone call from a telemarketer or wrong number, i'm putting my phone in the oven. I think i've had about twenty in the last two weeks. 

Which is that much more painful when the area code maps onto the location of a top-choice institution of yours... 

[matchamatcha]

1 hour ago, Kingoftherats said:

If I get one more phone call from a telemarketer or wrong number, i'm putting my phone in the oven. I think i've had about twenty in the last two weeks. 

I seem to be stuck on some Montreal based telemarketer's list.  They've called once a week for the last 3 weeks.  I can't even just ignore it because I keep thinking, "what if it's McGill?!?!"

[goldenstardust11]

For some reason, I was getting them daily a couple of weeks ago and I finally answered "please stop calling me." And I haven't gotten one since. That said, it was the same auto-script although  a different phone number every time, so maybe the spammer put me on their do not call list... I'm still happy about it though lol. 

[majorshake]

That's one of the benefits of living outside of North America - no telemarketers from there will be calling.

[Swann]

any hopes/guesses for decisions to come out on Monday (or any day this week)...?

[Duns Eith]

I bet OSU will have a few more acceptances (and rejections!) rolling out. The offers have been sparse. University of Illinois, Chicago I think will send some notices.

[adisticated]

UT Austin, Univ of Maryland, UNC chapel hill. When will they say something. I applied in CS MS 2017.

I just can not wait any fucking more.

[gatta]

northwestern's rejections are out... now to read 1500 pages of murdoch and some light heidegger. i think i need a vacation 

[gatta]

for all who are nervous 

[Coffee Snob]

My eyes are glued to my computer, refreshing my email every two minutes. I feel like I'm Alex in A Clockwork Orange.

Oh, the torture!

[Electric Anxiety]

1 hour ago, SEAsianInternational said:

My eyes are glued to my computer, refreshing my email every two minutes. I feel like I'm Alex in A Clockwork Orange.

Oh, the torture!

Hahaha great reference, and so true! 

 

[Duns Eith]

The dance needs more spin. It's all in the wrist.

[hector549]

9 hours ago, Swann said:

any hopes/guesses for decisions to come out on Monday (or any day this week)...?

I'm hoping for Duke early this week. They were predicted for the 27th.

[Sam Anscombe]

9 hours ago, Swann said:

any hopes/guesses for decisions to come out on Monday (or any day this week)...?

 

Duke has consistently released their first decisions before the end of January. Over the last five years, UC Berkeley has consistently released their first decisions on Feb 2 or Feb 3, and only once on Feb 5 in 2013.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Sam Anscombe

[Swann]

58 minutes ago, Sam Anscombe said:

Duke has consistently released their first decisions before the end of January. Over the last five years, UC Berkeley has consistently released their first decisions on Feb 2 or Feb 3, and only once on Feb 5 in 2013.

Oh wow. Berkeley has been that consistent? Thanks for the info!