HGSE 2017

[boscojoba]

On 27/03/2017 at 4:31 AM, Vulpix said:

My internship is not paid, so international students can definitely do that. I know many international students with internships.

In terms of managing it, well, I'm doing it for credit, so it's like it's one of my classes. I also have good time management  

Paid or not, people on an F1 visa are limited to 20 hours of work per week. There are a few exceptions but you will get deported and face a potential ban on entering the US ever again f you violate these terms and officials find out.

[Vulpix]

7 hours ago, boscojoba said:

Paid or not, people on an F1 visa are limited to 20 hours of work per week. There are a few exceptions but you will get deported and face a potential ban on entering the US ever again f you violate these terms and officials find out.

Well, very few internships are more than 20 hours a week anyway, and if you're a full-time student I doubt you'd take on more than that.

[forgetful26]

Anyone here has been notified of any restricted scholarship award? :S 

[HisGrace]

Did any of you attend the open house? 

[universe]

8 hours ago, HisGrace said:

Did any of you attend the open house? 

I was there.

[midmarsh]

49 minutes ago, universe said:

I was there.

What were your thoughts on everything after the open house? Are you definitely going to HGSE now?

[BhagBetty]

I attended the open house. I really enjoyed it. I did feel there were mixed messages about working while you attend the program. The max number of weekly hours suggested ranged from 8 to 20 depending on who the speaker was. The intensity of the program was also presented differently by different speakers: some seemed to view it as extremely challenging and requiring your full attention, some people spoke of the curricula as a breeze and emphasized the need for the "whole experience" I.e. attending askwiths, guest lectures, open office with professors, job searching etc. 

[universe]

11 hours ago, midmarsh said:

What were your thoughts on everything after the open house? Are you definitely going to HGSE now?

I'm actually glad I went because it solidified my decision not to go to Harvard Ed. It seemed like most people there were in the same boat - a bunch were worried about the financial aid aspect of it. The one thing I liked about Harvard was that the people there were super friendly and helpful, and my perspective cohort was really nice and people that I could get a long with. What turned me off though was the fact that none of the professors were there for the admit days to meet us, and that the people we talked to were mostly directors of admissions, student services, disability services, student affairs, etc. I was really looking forward to at least meeting the head of my department, who wasn't there to talk with us - instead, we talked for an hour and a half with 1st year students. 

For those who weren't able to attend, (or will be there this following week), here is what the schedule looked like:

8:15-9:00am - CHECK IN

9-9:30am - Welcome (Director of Admin and Associate Dean for Enrollment)

10:30-10:45am - Break

10:45 - 11:45 am " A year at HGSE: Student Life Panel"

11:45- 1:00pm - Lunch (with your cohort members)

12- 1:00pm - Student Services Open Office Hours (Oprtional)/Transitioning with Family/Children - Student Perspectives

1:00 - 2:30pm - PROGRAM MEETINGS (probably the most useful thing)

2:30-3:15pm - financial aid overview

3:15 - 4:00pm - Housing Information Session

4:30 - 5:30pm - Reception (optional)

The school itself is pretty small, and the building is an old one. Right across the way is the ed school library, which is nice, but not huge. It was also pretty snowy that day and Boston seemed quite gloomy to me. I wasn't a fan of the "small-town city feel."

The classes you can take seem pretty fun - not only at the ed school, but also at the other schools at Harvard. 

They stated that the average grant was $13,000 for all prospective masters students (and just because Harvard's endowment is so big, doesn't mean that the ed school gets a huge portion of that). The average master's debt they said was $47,000, which scares me because of compound interest and the fact that jobs in education don't earn that much. The average starting salary is $65,000 for ed school grads (which wasn't attractive to me, especially because the average Harvard College UNDERGRAD starts off around $80,000).

Housing is also costly, but they do offer through a lottery system 20 single occupancy GSAS Residence Hall rooms under Harvard Housing (which would be ideal because they're right on campus): Ranges between $6,976 - 10,956 with a required $2,332.48 meal plan (5 meals/week) with an application deadline of April 25th. 

Other housing is the Conkrite Grad Center (120 rooms) only 2 blocks from the ed school, but it's a 12 month lease, so you'll have to sublet the other 3 months. Rate is $1,206-$1530/month, pay per month, with a required $6,323 meal plan (10 meals/week). Applications between March 1 - May 1.

There's Harvard Housing, where you can get a whole house, but they cost between $1,248 - $4674 monthly and are usually for families. All utilities are included.

Off campus, you're looking at maybe $1,300-$1,500 per month, with utilities costing average $300/month (think about the heat), with a washer and dryer in the apartment. Look at Harvardhousingoffcampus.com for that. They recommend not bringing a car because parking is about $1,600/month. Apartments do not usually include parking.

For me at least, I didn't think a Harvard Master's was worth the time or money. I was expecting students of a much higher caliber with more work experience in the field (not saying they weren't, but that was my general sense). It seemed like there were many students in the program who just finished their undergraduate, and for me whose been in the field for the last four years as an administrator, I didn't feel like I would be able to learn as much from my cohort members. I believe though for other programs at Harvard (the PhD or EdLD at Harvard Ed), I would feel more comfortable with the level my peers are at. Just for the master's though, I think I'm going to choose a different school.

Further, I don't want to be burdened with debt, and it seemed like the cohort sizes were HUGE compared to other schools I applied to (where the cohort sizes at those schools are between 15-30) which is beneficial in getting to know your advisors/deans/professors well. Also, the fact that Harvard doesn't offer a lot of Financial Aid really hits the nail on the head. I know that Teacher's College at Columbia has like 4,000 master's students, and I read somewhere that they use the master's funding mostly to help fund the PhD students...

I'm going to keep as much as I can about myself and my personal experience anonymous right now, because I do feel like I may apply to Harvard for a PhD or EdLD. However, for a master's, I don't believe it was worth it for me. Curious to hear if anyone has similar/different thoughts?

[universe]

On 4/1/2017 at 1:47 PM, universe said:

I'm actually glad I went because it solidified my decision not to go to Harvard Ed. It seemed like most people there were in the same boat - a bunch were worried about the financial aid aspect of it. The one thing I liked about Harvard was that the people there were super friendly and helpful, and my perspective cohort was really nice and people that I could get a long with. What turned me off though was the fact that none of the professors were there for the admit days to meet us, and that the people we talked to were mostly directors of admissions, student services, disability services, student affairs, etc. I was really looking forward to at least meeting the head of my department, who wasn't there to talk with us - instead, we talked for an hour and a half with 1st year students. 

For those who weren't able to attend, (or will be there this following week), here is what the schedule looked like:

8:15-9:00am - CHECK IN

9-9:30am - Welcome (Director of Admin and Associate Dean for Enrollment)

10:30-10:45am - Break

10:45 - 11:45 am " A year at HGSE: Student Life Panel"

11:45- 1:00pm - Lunch (with your cohort members)

12- 1:00pm - Student Services Open Office Hours (Oprtional)/Transitioning with Family/Children - Student Perspectives

1:00 - 2:30pm - PROGRAM MEETINGS (probably the most useful thing)

2:30-3:15pm - financial aid overview

3:15 - 4:00pm - Housing Information Session

4:30 - 5:30pm - Reception (optional)

The school itself is pretty small, and the building is an old one. Right across the way is the ed school library, which is nice, but not huge. It was also pretty snowy that day and Boston seemed quite gloomy to me. I wasn't a fan of the "small-town city feel."

The classes you can take seem pretty fun - not only at the ed school, but also at the other schools at Harvard. 

They stated that the average grant was $13,000 for all prospective masters students (and just because Harvard's endowment is so big, doesn't mean that the ed school gets a huge portion of that). The average master's debt they said was $47,000, which scares me because of compound interest and the fact that jobs in education don't earn that much. The average starting salary is $65,000 for ed school grads (which wasn't attractive to me, especially because the average Harvard College UNDERGRAD starts off around $80,000).

Housing is also costly, but they do offer through a lottery system 20 single occupancy GSAS Residence Hall rooms under Harvard Housing (which would be ideal because they're right on campus): Ranges between $6,976 - 10,956 with a required $2,332.48 meal plan (5 meals/week) with an application deadline of April 25th. 

Other housing is the Conkrite Grad Center (120 rooms) only 2 blocks from the ed school, but it's a 12 month lease, so you'll have to sublet the other 3 months. Rate is $1,206-$1530/month, pay per month, with a required $6,323 meal plan (10 meals/week). Applications between March 1 - May 1.

There's Harvard Housing, where you can get a whole house, but they cost between $1,248 - $4674 monthly and are usually for families. All utilities are included.

Off campus, you're looking at maybe $1,300-$1,500 per month, with utilities costing average $300/month (think about the heat), with a washer and dryer in the apartment. Look at Harvardhousingoffcampus.com for that. They recommend not bringing a car because parking is about $1,600/month. Apartments do not usually include parking.

For me at least, I didn't think a Harvard Master's was worth the time or money. I was expecting students of a much higher caliber with more work experience in the field (not saying they weren't, but that was my general sense). It seemed like there were many students in the program who just finished their undergraduate, and for me whose been in the field for the last four years as an administrator, I didn't feel like I would be able to learn as much from my cohort members. I believe though for other programs at Harvard (the PhD or EdLD at Harvard Ed), I would feel more comfortable with the level my peers are at. Just for the master's though, I think I'm going to choose a different school.

Further, I don't want to be burdened with debt, and it seemed like the cohort sizes were HUGE compared to other schools I applied to (where the cohort sizes at those schools are between 15-30) which is beneficial in getting to know your advisors/deans/professors well. Also, the fact that Harvard doesn't offer a lot of Financial Aid really hits the nail on the head. I know that Teacher's College at Columbia has like 4,000 master's students, and I read somewhere that they use the master's funding mostly to help fund the PhD students...

I'm going to keep as much as I can about myself and my personal experience anonymous right now, because I do feel like I may apply to Harvard for a PhD or EdLD. However, for a master's, I don't believe it was worth it for me. Curious to hear if anyone has similar/different thoughts?

EDIT: $1,600/school year, not month, as previously stated.

[universe]

On 3/8/2017 at 4:02 AM, boscojoba said:

This has been the case for years now. While there's no hard data to support this - people on this forum can crucify me for that haha, I don't mind - it's an incredibly easy (and somewhat worthless) program to get into. If you can pay, you can attend. The quality of the courses, teaching, resources, etc. in the program - or even the students - isn't too great, from what I've heard from four of six ex-coworkers who went to study there. The students bit isn't surprising because a lot of them in the program haven't worked beyond doing some version of a feel-good public service program locally or internationally and feel they're enlightened enough about the world; also from what I've heard talking over each other in class discussions and contributing mostly fluff out loud is common. There's not a lot of deep thinking happening - unsurprising again since the GRE requirement published on their site isn't true (people with below average abilities to reason verbally, in writing, and using numerical data easily get in). What I've also heard: grad assistants teach a lot of classes (badly), HGSE is perennially broke and the amount of surprise fees throughout the year is ridiculous. If you want to attend things, you have to have $$$ to pay for it always: there are barely any opportunities to fund yourself once you're there. A lot more college money is going towards building buildings/infrastructure than on supporting students (or faculty). All of those 6 ex-coworkers of mine returned to their home countries after spending a LOT of money because job/career placement resources to stay on in the USA (something all wanted to do) are terrible. The Harvard tag for the IEP master's is not really a big thing for employers either - again, all of these ex-coworkers have jobs now at pay grades not very much higher than what they earned before (contrary to what they expected). All in all, a thoroughly shitty return on investment. I have no idea what the other programs are like, just IEP.

^ Pretty much why I declined the option to be considered for the master's program in case my PhD application didn't work out! The last thing I want as I push 30 is to bury myself in debt for an experience like that!

Thanks for that. I went to the admit days at Harvard and felt the same exact thing - a lot of fluff - and not a lot of developed thinkers. I mean, if it was Harvard Law or Business, sure, but the Harvard name doesn't hold too much ground in the Master's system. Also, I know one of my friends who isn't "super" in any field, apart from the fact that they are a teacher, was accepted and that kind of turned me off. 

[Levon3]

On 4/1/2017 at 1:47 PM, universe said:

The average starting salary is $65,000 for ed school grads (which wasn't attractive to me, especially because the average Harvard College UNDERGRAD starts off around $80,000).

Keep in mind, though, that the average HGSE graduate still goes into the education field. Whereas, Harvard College graduates are (a) far more competitively selected, and (b) mostly headed to far more lucrative sectors. 

$65,000 is not a bad starting salary for the education field. 

[BhagBetty]

Just now, universe said:

Thanks for that. I went to the admit days at Harvard and felt the same exact thing - a lot of fluff - and not a lot of developed thinkers. I mean, if it was Harvard Law or Business, sure, but the Harvard name doesn't hold too much ground in the Master's system. Also, I know one of my friends who isn't "super" in any field, apart from the fact that they are a teacher, was accepted and that kind of turned me off. 

 Hi Universe: I am curious about your statement about developed thinkers: what was your range of examples of this? Do you feel you had compelling conversations with enough people to gauge the overall cognitive and/or critical thinking capacity of such a large group outside of a classroom, especially since only 20% of admitted students attended? Also, what is your reference range about the Harvard name not holding much ground in the Master's system? I want to explore this piece of information and very interested in everyone's assessment 

[Vulpix]

15 hours ago, universe said:

Thanks for that. I went to the admit days at Harvard and felt the same exact thing - a lot of fluff - and not a lot of developed thinkers. I mean, if it was Harvard Law or Business, sure, but the Harvard name doesn't hold too much ground in the Master's system. Also, I know one of my friends who isn't "super" in any field, apart from the fact that they are a teacher, was accepted and that kind of turned me off. 

That last sentence is kind of problematic to me. What makes you think a teacher can't be "super"? This is an ed school --- teachers are supposed to be respected. Isn't your friend intelligent? Isn't his/her classroom teaching experience extremely valid when going into ed policy or whatever field?

$65,000 is a good starting salary for education, I don't think the comparison to Harvard College is at all relevant because of the reasons stated above, students go into much more lucrative fields. I don't think you'll find an ed program with a HIGHER starting salary.... and if you yourself have more experience, then yours will be higher. There are plenty of students here who were making more than $65K before HGSE, and they obviously expect to make more after. 

In terms of critical thinking, I would caution everyone to not think that the few current students you see at an open house day, and the lack of professors present, is representative. I can't imagine there are many masters programs that have students with much MORE experience than HGSE students (considering MOST people get their masters degrees in their 20s, I don't really know what you expect overall), and in my experience, it is the younger students with fewer responsibilities who tend to volunteer with admissions to represent their cohorts at open house events --- i.e., you're not going to see a representative sample of experience (the moms who run schools are not available to talk with admitted students on Saturdays--- same for the professors who have lives and kids). As a student at HGSE, I have had unprecedented access to personal relationships with my professors, the ones I choose to pursue. And this is coming from someone who went to an extremely small college for undergrad and is used to very small classes. 

Also, my program professor was also not able to make it to my admitted students' day last year, and I worried that was a bad sign, but he is nothing but accessible. Scheduling these things are not easy, these people are incredibly busy and generally DO make the time to talk with students as much as possible.

I do, generally speaking, agree with the camp that thinks that coursework here is not overwhelming, but I was in a rigorous undergrad program and am comparing to that. I believe HGSE is really the whole experience, the things mentioned before. That being said, it really depends on the classes. There was nothing easy about most of the classes I took, but others were less intellectually stimulating than I might have hoped. I have complaints about HGSE, but overall I'm happy I went.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Vulpix

[cavenue]

16 hours ago, universe said:

Thanks for that. I went to the admit days at Harvard and felt the same exact thing - a lot of fluff - and not a lot of developed thinkers. I mean, if it was Harvard Law or Business, sure, but the Harvard name doesn't hold too much ground in the Master's system. Also, I know one of my friends who isn't "super" in any field, apart from the fact that they are a teacher, was accepted and that kind of turned me off. 

If being a (presumably very good) teacher does not warrant being considered "super" in the education field, then I'm not sure if an ed. school is the right place for you. 

[HisGrace]

2 hours ago, Vulpix said:

That last sentence is kind of problematic to me. What makes you think a teacher can't be "super"? This is an ed school --- teachers are supposed to be respected. Isn't your friend intelligent? Isn't his/her classroom teaching experience extremely valid when going into ed policy or whatever field?

$65,000 is a good starting salary for education, I don't think the comparison to Harvard College is at all relevant because of the reasons stated above, students go into much more lucrative fields. I don't think you'll find an ed program with a HIGHER starting salary.... and if you yourself have more experience, then yours will be higher. There are plenty of students here who were making more than $65K before HGSE, and they obviously expect to make more after. 

In terms of critical thinking, I would caution everyone to not think that the few current students you see at an open house day, and the lack of professors present, is representative. I can't imagine there are many masters programs that have students with much MORE experience than HGSE students (considering MOST people get their masters degrees in their 20s, I don't really know what you expect overall), and in my experience, it is the younger students with fewer responsibilities who tend to volunteer with admissions to represent their cohorts at open house events --- i.e., you're not going to see a representative sample of experience (the moms who run schools are not available to talk with admitted students on Saturdays--- same for the professors who have lives and kids). As a student at HGSE, I have had unprecedented access to personal relationships with my professors, the ones I choose to pursue. And this is coming from someone who went to an extremely small college for undergrad and is used to very small classes. 

Also, my program professor was also not able to make it to my admitted students' day last year, and I worried that was a bad sign, but he is nothing but accessible. Scheduling these things are not easy, these people are incredibly busy and generally DO make the time to talk with students as much as possible.

I do, generally speaking, agree with the camp that thinks that coursework here is not overwhelming, but I was in a rigorous undergrad program and am comparing to that. I believe HGSE is really the whole experience, the things mentioned before. That being said, it really depends on the classes. There was nothing easy about most of the classes I took, but others were less intellectually stimulating than I might have hoped. I have complaints about HGSE, but overall I'm happy I went.

What complaints do you have? 

[HisGrace]

I went on a tour of the school this weekend and also attended the One Harvard event....if I get the EdM degree,  I know I would want to continue on to either get a business or law degree. 

 

I do second that yes students at HGSE may not be as intellectually up there as other Harvard students. ...a current HGSE student I had a convo with was detailing the types of class discussions that go on. ...not always the most intelligent arguments from students.  Let me just leave it at that

[HisGrace]

1 hour ago, cavenue said:

Steve Bannon has a degree from HBS. Let me just leave it at that. 

Lol like I said...not the most intelligent arguments from students.

Edited April 3, 2017 by HisGrace

[Vulpix]

12 hours ago, HisGrace said:

What complaints do you have? 

Most of my complaints, upon reflection, are more personal issues during my year at grad school and not related to HGSE itself. However, I'd say my biggest complaint is the spectrum in quality of classes. There are AMAZING classes and then there are classes that are terrible. And unfortunately, few people seem to be able to avoid taking at least one dud, which is a shame given we are only here for one year, even one dud feels like such a waste. I guess that's really my only complaint... I know international students have some more challenges...

Edited April 3, 2017 by Vulpix

[cokpala]

Hi all, 

I went to the HGSE Admit Day today and thought it was great. Definitely sure I'm attending now. I'm happy to share details with anyone who was unable to attend over PM!

 

 

[universe]

On 4/2/2017 at 1:52 PM, Levon3 said:

Keep in mind, though, that the average HGSE graduate still goes into the education field. Whereas, Harvard College graduates are (a) far more competitively selected, and (b) mostly headed to far more lucrative sectors. 

$65,000 is not a bad starting salary for the education field. 

Agreed, and that's understandable. 

[W. Cardwell]

Very interesting perspectives from people who attended accepted students day.  I remember attending last year and leaving in the middle of the day, deciding that the cost of attending HGSE wasn't worth it given what I too perceived as a weak group of students and an under-representation of people of color.  HOWEVER, I kept an open mind and spoke directly with my program director and shared those thoughts, I'm in Prevention Science and Practice - School Counseling (Adolescents).  I had a full ride to Boston College for the Higher Education Administration program with an opportunity to dual enroll at the law school and thought I wanted to attend there instead.  The conversation with my program's director really challenged me to think critically about my decision, identify my blindspots and biases and ask myself where these tensions came from.  I went on to receive a full scholarship to HGSE, which helped my decision, but even if I hadn't I still would have attended.  I'm returning next year for my CAS in school counseling w/o a scholarship.

I share all of this to caution the single story some have developed following very limited experiences, conversations and hearsay.  As Vulpix stated, we all end up taking at least one dud of a course.  It happens.  The conversations in some of my courses could go deeper but as a counseling student, most of my classes are tense in conversation and critical thinking as we're holding ourselves responsible for the impact we may have on a child's life.  As a counseling intern, we're on site 16 - 24 hours a week and quite a few of us work in the Gutman library 10 hours a week.  There are ways to stretch yourself thin here, especially when you think about the number of student groups that exists.  It's true that some people have less experience than others.  I stopped holding that against students quickly as some of the most meaningful and challenging conversations I've had have been with students who were coming right out of college with little to no counseling experience.  

I was a science and philosophy major at a large college and I have many peers who too did not study education before coming to HGSE but we all had 5+ years in the field and were committed to staying in education.  HGSE attracts all sorts and you can find community, if not on campus than throughout the Boston area.  I took a statistics course with students from the medical school and have law, business and government school students in two of my courses.  I can't say I've always enjoyed my time at HGSE but I've met students who have received Masters degrees from UPenn, Vanderbilt and Columbia who've shared the pros and cons of each school.  The experience wherever you attend is what you make of it.  If you feel like conversations and coursework isn't intellectually simulating enough, you can challenge and take the conversations there.  We all benefit from those we are willing to push the envelope and take us outside of our comfort zones.

If anyone was recently admitted to PSP and has questions, feel free to PM me.  I've got no blind allegiance to the school and will share openly and transparently to the extent that I think it will help one make the most informed decision.

Edited April 5, 2017 by W. Cardwell

[KearaChill]

Hi all - 

Somewhat in the vein of is HGSE worth all this money, I would love any ideas/guidance on being able to pay for HGSE. I am coming from doing a stipend fellowship for 2 years so my savings are almost no existent and based on what I saw in this thread of financial aid packages, I think that I've gotten the highest that Harvard would typically give for grants. I have a big gap between budgeted expenses and the financial aid and I know that I could take out loans, but I want to minimize that as much as possible, especially because I will be doing the Prevention Science and Practice - counseling strand and am planning on pursuing the post-grad counseling certificate program next year which would be the same tuition and expenses for another year. I've heard that the counseling program especially can be intense in terms of hours dedicated to field placements and coursework and I am concerned that I won't be able to work much during the school year. Do you all have any ideas/testimonies of how I can approach this with the financial aid office? Also, does anyone know any grad school grants and scholarships that I can be looking at? 

Hope to hear back soon!

[Vulpix]

^Sorry I don't have a lot of advice on finances  Best of luck to you though.

Just on the discussion of "Is HGSE worth it?" career-wise... we are all getting jobs right now. Another thing HGSE has taught us is to dream big, believe in yourself, and go after what you want, not just what you can get. So people are also turning down some 'lower' jobs as they have legitimate chances at really advancing their careers.  

[HisGrace]

Do the cohorts greatly differ?

 

I am looking at the curriculum now and prefer the program and alumni, from TIE (tech, innovation and education) vs education policy and management (my current concentration). I would like to call to request a change but before I do this, I just wanted to reach out and see if I can enroll in ANY class at HGSE regardless of whether it falls under a dif cohort's class offerings

[Vulpix]

5 hours ago, HisGrace said:

Do the cohorts greatly differ?

 

I am looking at the curriculum now and prefer the program and alumni, from TIE (tech, innovation and education) vs education policy and management (my current concentration). I would like to call to request a change but before I do this, I just wanted to reach out and see if I can enroll in ANY class at HGSE regardless of whether it falls under a dif cohort's class offerings

You have to check each program's curriculum requirements. I think some are more restrictive than others. But generally you can enroll in any classes you want as long as you also meet those requirements.