IrisR Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 On November 28, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Ray11 said: Does anyone know, or have an opinion on this? Is it a bad idea to include images of work completed while employed for other artists in your portfolio? It does relate to my intended direction and interests. As long as you make clear that is where the work was created. It illustrated what you have been doing after graduation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, IrisR said: When you really look at all programs it is difficult to get into. On an average most only take 4 students. I only know of a few who take more than 10. This is very true! Although some programs vary greatly with how many students apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, IrisR said: This is my second go around and since I am older I don't know how many times I want to go through the application process. I prefer to create art. All that application language worries me wondering if I dotted all my i and crossed my t's. English is my second language so its natural that I am always worried I misspelled something. Even after I have natives check my material I end up finding something even they missed. In my head it's a done deal, either someone can see me in their MFA program or they can't. After I visited the last National Portfolio day I realized it is pretty much a lottery. You do need some luck even if your work is strong. The judges don't know your work ethic and what you bring to the table by reading your application and looking at your work alone. In person contact can't be underestimated. How do I deal with all the stress? I am decompressing for a few days trying to let the angst simmer out a little. Here are some things I do: • Visit galleries and museums • Read up on upcoming artists • Sign up for a course outside your media/expertise, just enrolled in an 8 week course • Volunteer • Read a new book on art • Make a list of interview question and answers • Research the cities and art scene of the programs I applied to in debt • Come up with at least 3 themes and concepts you consider for your MFA thesis • Make a dream list what your solo exhibition would look like Add to this list and let see what other ideas we can come up with to pass the time while waiting. I wouldn't worry too much about having some misspellings. I know a few people in top MFA programs that can't write English very well and they still got in. I've been told by current and previous students that many of the best programs forgive a lot of things if your work is strong. This is a fantastic list of things to do during the waiting process! I also find that planning things is very calming, it is fun to dream about the possibilities and can help distract from the feelings of worry and dare I say panic. I also like to do things like create a calendar where I can put the dates of when I should be hearing back and cross off each day. It isn't as healthy or productive as the things that you listed, but when I really get into a stressful mood I will watch a show that I like with a strong storyline to distract myself. Other things I'll do when in that headspace is go run errands or clean the house. It sounds like you are very dedicated to art. I imagine that passion will help you get into a program that you desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, IrisR said: Thank you well written and a good point for visiting institutions before you commit to their programs. I like to see the works of current MFA students especially the ones who are about to graduate. I feel that is very telling on how strong a MFA program a given University truly has. I couldn't agree with this more. I wish that more schools would put student work on their sites or at least a list of students with links to their websites. What are MFA programs that have a list of students or current student work on their site? I only know of a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrisR Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, Sylvieee said: This is very true! Although some programs vary greatly with how many students apply. I have not taken the time to figure out how many applicant each MFA program actually gets. Is this information on the University website? 3 minutes ago, Sylvieee said: I wouldn't worry too much about having some misspellings. I know a few people in top MFA programs that can't write English very well and they still got in. I've been told by current and previous students that many of the best programs forgive a lot of things if your work is strong. This is a fantastic list of things to do during the waiting process! I also find that planning things is very calming, it is fun to dream about the possibilities and can help distract from the feelings of worry and dare I say panic. I also like to do things like create a calendar where I can put the dates of when I should be hearing back and cross off each day. It isn't as healthy or productive as the things that you listed, but when I really get into a stressful mood I will watch a show that I like with a strong storyline to distract myself. Other things I'll do when in that headspace is go run errands or clean the house. It sounds like you are very dedicated to art. I imagine that passion will help you get into a program that you desire. Your words in the MFA gods ears lol. I have been around the block a while it helps you figure out what you really want from life. Good to know about the spelling. I like the calendar idea as well. This way you know when to follow up if you have not gotten word from a given MFA program. My house would thank me if I used my energy to clean it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.PoopyButtHole Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Copying my notes from the Columbia Q&A just in case y'all missed it Columbia Q&A High tuition at Columbia Difference between Yale and Columbia Yale programs are separate and are segregated between departments Columbia – everyone works together, hearing voices that may not be specific to media, a perspective from someone that does not the ins and outs of your medium Interdisciplinary environment – what they want their art to accomplish Making work in relation to other mediums Community that follows you after school – class ahead and behind you, alumni unique City of New York, which is an incredible learning environment We accommodate the needs of applicants – domestically and internationally Rigorous how we make comparisons between remote and domestic Treatment of body and materials and sculptural nature of work, better understanding of relationship to sculpture Sculptural aspect of painting in your own work? Intersection between body, painting and sculpture – painting deconstructed - painting as an object, sculptural dimension of sculpture - so curious to question the limit of painting and how it can be expanded wider within the traditional practice - what the frame of painting is? New or more survey work over the course of few years? - we wish you to make that choice, based on what your interests as an artist - committees look at your work, meeting you for the first time, what is most important to you - use that framework - pride yourself in what you have included - may be most recent, your interests - very early work there is a point to go back to to explain where you are now Fine art tract? How will it prepare students for the professional world? - the way we prepare students into the world as professional artists - professional practice – writing statements, grants, etc - connections we have with curators, etc. for artists how artists at Columbia start widening their audience - most valuable asset - one you have been admitted, primary medium, then you are completely immersed in the interdisciplinary community and faculty - the vis. Arts program is a fine art tract - courses at school of art film, theater, and writing, are open on the basis of application - restriction/access to equipment outside of program - our students are some of the favorites of professors Asked to rate professors - top choices and pairings - think about what the mentor can do along with your practice How do you evaluate the artist CV? - committee meeting , we begin with the work itself and then we move down into the statement and CV - Then the fourth level would be what are the references and transcripts - Everything relates back to the work and how you relate to your own work What is an appropriate length – one page In terms of looking at comparing schools Columbia and - mentor program is an asset in terms of having a mentor - forming a relationship- professional and friend - every semester - close relationship with them - critical issues requirement it may be fulfilled outside the art program as well - an academic course that relates to your studio practice without which you would make your kind of work - point can be earned in international affairs, philosophy, etc African studies and painting – class in African studies – - yes very much so and encouraged to take classes in field and field of interest to your practice - - describe studio facilities - two buildings - one houses theater, writing, school of art and two of large classrooms - studio spaces are in – first year Watson hall at Morningside campus, more or less equal in size - second year, prentice hall, 125th street from new Columbia west campus and venue for arts - vary widely, windows not windows small large - if you get the chance to visit us, we can weekly tours of facilities, shops etc In regards to interview - is limited internet access an issue - yes - it would be important for interview to have a secure connection, strong connection, so interview is not interrupted Digital painting… - show your strongest work - as long as you identify what is being looked at How much does the statement refer to image/images - it really depends on practice - a lot of the straightforward information - fields use in many different ways we all pitch in with those connections - learn from students How does the admission committee consider the value and weight of a persons professional experience - glance at that, but not very weighted - much more interested in seeing the work and the statement - overall is to build as diverse a community as possible - that naturally includes life experience, wide range of life experiences - the age of a person into program ranges, straight into from undergrad, all the way up to had a professional career - who made this, what are they like Does faculty consider research from a developing country - various limitations through our knowledge - we do take that into account - if the work is interesting to us, we would bring that to the next level into the interview IS this a hybrid of artist CV and resume We are most interested in the potential going forward - we are not judging you based on exhibitions you have up to this point - why graduate school, why now? When will - if you are accepted after interviewed will list anyone who will be on leave for the coming year or one of the semesters in the first year and who will replace them 1,200 applicants how many make it into interview 5 or 4 incoming in each department interview 130 for painting different every year, based on getting as much information as we can everyone that we feel, that we want more information from 4 interviews per spot 4 or 5 spots at what point do you think an artist is ready for them to continue onto their masters? When you are ready to make your work public to a community, when you want a cross disciplinary feedback A body of work that you are really ready to apply deeply go very deep into your work - very young work which is interesting, but not yet ready for graduate school - fair amount of work that is very advanced and already finding an audience - how is this person going to benefit from we prioritize applicants who we feel are clear with themselves why they are bringing themselves back to school into intense process in relation to their work very international program, very large percentage of women as well Additional information not included in application, how can I add them to application - there are ways to attach documents - last year a candidate attached a masters thesis Do you still want a description in work - put yourself in our place and look at slideroom application - what do I know about this work that they will not know? - Focus on viewers experience - What is no longer there when it is being shown as documentation - Other reason emphasize that, wide range of ways that we encounter art - Some works are very complex in their position - Very formal work, people don’t put any description apart from itself Grades are not a harsh judgment - we are sort of looking for red flags - things that don’t compute with what we have - your motivation for applying - when can we expect to know for interview what q’s should we think about? A month after initial round - we invite people back within a month - interview list proposed and we contact next day - variables are time between admission deadlines - minimum 2 weeks for time to interview - what kind of questions should we think about? - In you already, just come and be yourself - Interview to get to know you and see your art and you - Not really a set of questions that you should be thinking about, how do I relate to my own work and why you want to be at grad school - Also interviewing us and how does it fit with you want and what you expect - Come prepared with questions - 34/64 women – 63 percent - pdf is fine, but make sure portfolio is uploaded via slideroom During study at Columbia – oversee volunteer program - deans travel grant, might allow some funds for research and travel, financial support, and residencies - not something that we offer in itself - these are the kind of things that develop personal relationships with faculty - not uncommon for students to bring opportunities to professors - program is so diverse - we cannot try to imagine what would be beneficial to such a group of artists - top down structure does not work - what are my objectives as a student - where do students go after careers - many different artist paths - students collective galleries, such a wide range Wonder what will be critical reason to offer an applicant scholarship? - given according to need - range within them - app process – two platforms to fill in app information - not faculty responsibility, it happens in the admission process - really important, faculty does not look at financial information - two needed to fill out if domestic, one international - fafsa for domestic, profile application – for domestic/international - both apps let us look at what your financial ability is to pay - scholarships based on need - looking at ability to pay - scholarships, service position within vis. Art program, office, etc. - TA position - Can TA twice, once in first year and second year - We give you an entire financial aid scholarship broken down What staff is available to mentor? - possible to work with her as mentor - many students come with very particular interests in a particular person - faculty do whatever we can to make a good connection Does an applicant stand out more if they are only applying to Columbia? - no - just applying to one school is not a good idea - after we have accepted you, its only emotional and anecdotal - it is not a factor Is it common for candidates to apply to multiple areas? - common - interdisciplinary nature od school If my portfolio is primarily based on sculpture – apply for sculpture or new genre? - if you apply to more than you have more of a chance of it being seen - moving image and new genre are close - think carefully of how you represent yourself - pass candidates into other committees Do our social media accoutns matter? Should we link to them? - no - if it relates to your work - makes work that lives online and gets shared through twitter and instagram account - if it is just like we all have one, then I don’t think we would look at it Mature artists vs. one looking for their voice? - we don’t discriminate on age, we don’t make decisions based on age - somewhere in the middle and explore it - answer is beneath the question, motivation for coming back to school - not likely we would admit someone who is just at the beginning they are thinking about - done a lot of work, for the right reasons - re-evaluate, reassess, put it through the thought experiments When is the deadline for Fafsa and profile application Feb. 1st is when it is due from Columbia Columbia seems to produce a range of successful artists? What makes it stand out? - everything that is valuable to students - being in new york, faculty, - best emerging artists are applying to the program - put you in a great place - when you leave, you are part of this very large community - moves out into other institutions Columbia has a relationship with In order to apply to two concentrations do you need two different application, statements, pay twice? - yes to all of the above - work submission different, so talk about it in a specific way - sculpture and printmaking - prioritize printmaking for one app, but also show some sculpture - in sculpture, show sculpture, but also show prints as well to see how printmaking informs the sculpture you are making - make it clear why someone making sculpture is making Why interdisciplinary program? How might work with other faculty influence work Very different lens, write it in relation to their lens What work does Columbia prefer to see in their portfolio? - gone from people who are technical in printmaking, to a wide range of working with printmaking, or one particular way of working with prints - what is the relationship between printmaking and other media - printmakers some of the most diverse practitioners - two print shops and a professional artist print shop, grads work in both - can study photogravure any specific order for portfolio? - most interesting first - strongest first - strongest 10 years ago not best to lead with it - if a 10 year work is included explain why - generally, if you prefer to take a chronological approach, begin with the present first - we don’t ask for works to be ordered in a specific way - it is a way to telling a narrative, put it in the order that would tell the best narrative Is it all right to show work in progress or see completed work? - if it is ambitious, then show one image for it as a model of what it will look like, much better to show completed work - almost impossible to access work submitted as a proposal - majority of work is, maybe even have no physical existence, looking at people s proposals for projects - while ideas are interesting, nothing is revealed about how a work gets made - artists relationships to work not revealed Core curriculum - work in studio, studio visits, and group critiques - studio courses open to you and cross listed with undergraduate - within program, small range of critical issues course, closer to seminar based - most of electives would be taken outside visual art program - public lectures given by VALS – run by students and invite 8 visting lecturers each semester and lecture at wider university What is to be expected of the thesis? - final review of work, composed of one full-time instructor - submit a written component - every student approaches it a little differently, requirement is that you develop a position/proposition in a way through work and faculty - most students in second year, start to consider what comprises the thesis, what will be included, excluded from that a body of work - what will be made public in thesis exhibition - artists and curator select work that represents the thesis project - cannot think of anything who came with an idea of thesis, that ended up being their thesis What are the drawbacks and benefits of studying at a palce at Columbia? - benefit to be in a large school like Columbia - widening range of sources of what painting can be - draw resources, anthropologists, etc. and bring that all into your work – huge asset - drawbacks – don’t see any drawbacks - maybe, being in new york city, huge advantage, but can also be a drawback b/c of metropolis and hard to focus in at times - more visibility and pressure for students to come up with best work in the best way - even if you don’t want to branch out other departments, which can talk to materiality of work - bring in painters painters - a lot of challenges may feel like drawbacks, but you will benefit greatly from them in the end - things that were the hardest, objected to the most, but paid off How important are letters of recommendation in review process? - one of the lesser important ones, no red flags - if we are kind of indecisive - but I would say it is not the most important - speaks to your relationship with people and mentors Puerto Rican – domestic or international? - exempt from requirements - one year at university in which English is the primary language, Canada, Britain, etc. exempts you from submitting your tofl score Do you think environment among studetns is competitive? - yes in a very supportive way - personally really enjoy is what a great community the students create among themselves - everyone finds the tiem to help each other and promote each other - due to interdisciplinary structure - quickly understand that no one can make their work - it becomes really apparent - you ideas, someone out there is not trying to take that away from you - grad school only making best work, that you will have the kind of success that means something to you Deadline January 17 11:59 pm eastern standard time - hard deadline let_me_in and paint_and_destroy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrisR Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sylvieee said: I couldn't agree with this more. I wish that more schools would put student work on their sites or at least a list of students with links to their websites. What are MFA programs that have a list of students or current student work on their site? I only know of a few. Some University websites are like a scavenger hunt. They make it difficult to see student and faculty work. I appreciate the Universities who respect students time and have all the needed information in one place easy to access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 23 hours ago, OldMFA said: I'm definitely freaking out more now than when I was applying, waiting is so hard! I also feel like every program I applied to is tiny and super hard to get into to I can certainly relate to this. However, I think it is smart to only apply to schools that you know you want to go to. Doing an MFA program is a big time and (depending on schools) money investment. I received a booklet about the program at MICA (not a school I applied to) and I like some of the quotes they have in there: "Because life is defined by the choices you make, and this is a big one." "Because if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work." "If you've come this far, you know the risks, you know your goals and you're ready for the next step. You know 'why graduate school.' You know 'why now.' You have an idea of who you are and what you're doing." If you've done your research and know that the schools you applied to are the best fit for you, then don't worry. If it doesn't work out this year, there is always next year with time to recollect yourself, make new work, and apply stronger next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, IrisR said: I have not taken the time to figure out how many applicant each MFA program actually gets. Is this information on the University website? Your words in the MFA gods ears lol. I have been around the block a while it helps you figure out what you really want from life. Good to know about the spelling. I like the calendar idea as well. This way you know when to follow up if you have not gotten word from a given MFA program. My house would thank me if I used my energy to clean it lol. The number of applicants per program I've found in different places on this site. I know that some programs have 200 or less students apply (some less than 100 even!) and some programs like Yale or Columbia have over 1,000 students apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, OldMFA said: Yes, it is important to like the program and see yourself there. I went to as many open houses as I could and took certain programs off my list after visiting. I also think the schools like when you visit, and you have a made an informed decision on where you want to go. I think this is true indeed! Which open houses did you attend? Any useful information you can share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 @Mr.PoopyButtHole thank you so much for posting this information! I will say contrary to what was said, Yale is also a program where different departments work together. Students from various departments spend time together, some have studios in the same building, and go to each other crits. It isn't an interdisciplinary program but the students do interact a lot with each other and have a strong community. What is the financial aid like at Columbia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I created a Yale MFA 2018 forum as I noticed there were ones in previous years. Anyone, please join me over there if you'd like! @OldMFA it would be great if you could post about your experience visiting there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrisR Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Open houses I attended Yale, MICA, PAFA, William Paterson University, Rutgers, Parson Yale and PAFA go all out serving food and faculty is available to talk to you about their programs. Student work is of current students in the program. I was able to talk to talk to MFA students and see their work. I saw a few really amazing artist, lots of in the middle and than of course some you wonder what they will do after they graduate. Rutgers was down to earth, some light refreshment serves. They are not about the food. Galleries are easy to access and are filled with current MFA and BFA students work. (Very impressive ) I was able to talk to MFA students but not many. Wish more students had their studio open that day. Not sure if that is due to Rutgers only allowing their best to be available. Their works where good. Great feedback on what they like to see you you application. William Paterson University must have been the oddest open house I have visited. You get to meet with the department head one on one which was nice but there was no tour of the facilities. I took it upon myself and walked over to the artist building and gave myself a tour. I did not like that the art building is so removed from the rest of the campus. They have a 3 year program but no TA. Parson was holding the National Portfolio Day this year. The building is quite impressive but the energy coming from the student was pretty negative. You could sense the anxiety of the students. I focused on what I wanted to find out and visited as many Universities as I could fit into the time I had. I was quickly made aware of programs I had not considered. But the digital National Portfolio Day online allowed me to dive into more question and find out information I did not have time to gain at Parson's event. Other I visited via appointment: Alfred University and University of Delaware Alfred University was certainly the most adventures drive. Was hit by a road gator and almost did not make it to Alfred. Great little town and wonderful facilities. The ceramic facilities are very impressive. Since the program is new the MFA studios had not been ready yet. The BFA work I saw was impressive. The faculty are very much engages in the art scene. Delaware had an MFA student give me their tour. That was wonderful as I was able to ask question as we toured the campus. Painters studios are large with natural lighting. Photo studios are small but you have access to larger ones as needed. They too have an impressive ceramic studio. Easy parking for MFA students is certainly a bonus. Grad student told me that University of Delaware goes all out to ensure you have the support to become a professional artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdart Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 If you guys haven’t heard of this site https://www.petersons.com/ has pretty useful information about number of applicants, number accepted, and acceptance rates. They had information for a little over half the programs I applied too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.PoopyButtHole Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Sylvieee said: @Mr.PoopyButtHole thank you so much for posting this information! I will say contrary to what was said, Yale is also a program where different departments work together. Students from various departments spend time together, some have studios in the same building, and go to each other crits. It isn't an interdisciplinary program but the students do interact a lot with each other and have a strong community. What is the financial aid like at Columbia? Hey @Sylvieee, I logged in about 15 min late, but they said it would be a combination of any of these four: scholarships, TA ship, work-study, and loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I saw this posted in another forum. Interesting to look at for those of us interested in MFA programs and gallery representation: http://www.havenforthedispossessed.org/ "Art Statistics 2016-2017 The data presented here was produced by the Arts in NYC course taught at CUNY Guttman College by James Case-Leal Spring 2017. We built a database of 1300 artists represented at the top 45 commercial galleries in New York. We researched each artist noting their: Age, Race*, Nationality, Gender*, and Education (highest degree, institution, and date of graduation)." let_me_in and paint_and_destroy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) I got a hit on Google Analytics from New Haven! It was from a mobile phone so probably not from admissions... still exciting! I only added analytics recently and yesterday was the first day it showed info for, so I don't know if anyone looked before. Edited January 14, 2018 by Sylvieee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amberf95 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Hello all, Quick question : Two of my current art professors recommended that I apply to two schools where they have friends in the Fine art faculty.Their friends had contacted them, seeking applicants for their MFA programs. I did apply. My question is : do you think this is a hopeful sign for me ? Thanks in advance to anyone who might know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Charleston Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Sylvieee said: I got a hit on Google Analytics from New Haven! It was from a mobile phone so probably not from admissions... still exciting! I only added analytics recently and yesterday was the first day it showed info for, so I don't know if anyone looked before. way to go!! probably a good sign. did you apply for painting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, amberf95 said: Hello all, Quick question : Two of my current art professors recommended that I apply to two schools where they have friends in the Fine art faculty.Their friends had contacted them, seeking applicants for their MFA programs. I did apply. My question is : do you think this is a hopeful sign for me ? Thanks in advance to anyone who might know. I would say yes that is a good sign! I don't think that they would suggest that you apply to a program where their friends teach if they didn't think your work was something that they would like. Good luck and keep us updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, 98Charleston said: way to go!! probably a good sign. did you apply for painting? Thank you! No, I applied for photography. Did you apply to Yale for painting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Charleston Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sylvieee said: Thank you! No, I applied for photography. Did you apply to Yale for painting? Yup! Waiting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvieee Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, 98Charleston said: Yup! Waiting! 98Charleston and charoarte 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amberf95 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Sylvieee said: I would say yes that is a good sign! I don't think that they would suggest that you apply to a program where their friends teach if they didn't think your work was something that they would like. Good luck and keep us updated! Wow, thanks I am, quite honestly, out of my depth here. I have a strong feeling that I will be back here next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213214325 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Finally submitted my last application. In the end I feel the whole process of applying has negatively affected me in a way I'm not even sure how lol. Let's see how this all turns out Edited January 15, 2018 by stupidpainter StarryNight_1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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