trytostay

No, I personally would say that schools and applicants do not have the same idea of "fit." Applicants are picking based on more than academic interests, including where they want to live, the type of people they want to socialize with, the type of environment they want to work in, the type of career they want to have afterwards, how much the program can pay them... For the committees, it's purely academic, but also random as hell. Decisions aren't made on who is the "smartest" or "best," but rather who's on the committee that year, who took too many students last year, who hasn't taken students in awhile... The applicants aren't aware of these arbitrary factors, so all applicants can do is present the most accurate depiction of who they are as a student and hope that there's a need in the program for a student like them.

No, I personally would say that schools and applicants do not have the same idea of "fit." Applicants are picking based on more than academic interests, including where they want to live, the type of people they want to socialize with, the type of environment they want to work in, the type of career they want to have afterwards, how much the program can pay them... For the committees, it's purely academic, but also random as hell. Decisions aren't made on who is the "smartest" or "best," but rather who's on the committee that year, who took too many students last year, who hasn't taken students in awhile... The applicants aren't aware of these arbitrary factors, so all applicants can do is present the most accurate depiction of who they are as a student and hope that there's a need in the program for a student like them.

These wonderfully ad hominem, self-righteous, and presumptuous responses nicely illustrate the concern. For those of you out there silently wondering if this is the mentality in academia at the present time, especially in the humanities, you can see it illustrated here: A prejudiced and obtuse confidence in the ability to judge the value of others based on the identity categories considered worthy. Not only is this flagrantly unlawful in the hiring context, but it is also deeply damaging to critical discourse. Anyone who disagrees or even questions these practices (dare I say ideology?) gets labeled as a "bad faith" actor or worse. So much for dialogue, disagreement, argument, and differences in opinion; you either agree with my perspective or you're an unwoke, privileged malefactor. 

Yeah so this is basically: cisgendered heterosexual white men are being “screwed” in academic hiring practices. As if diversity considerations aren’t trying (and often failing anyway) to counter a systematic structure that has homogenized academia for years. As if the point of considering diversity is not to counterbalance the obstacles faced by their beneficiaries. As if equity and justice are lesser goals than equality or impartiality. As if gainful employment is a right one can be screwed out of (yet that this is not the case for the historical bias of academic hiring). As if a lack of diversity doesn’t plague most universities. As if a lack of diversity is not a disservice to the ideals of higher education. As if, even if every single new hire for Fall 2020 were a diversity hire, faculties nationwide wouldn’t stay primarily white and mostly male (and heterosexual, cisgendered). As if, in a hiring pool where everyone is supremely, a diverse candidate is inherently a lesser candidate. As if, in that context, someone’s minoritized identity is less important than having 3 instead of 2 articles. As if faculty identity has no bearing on their interpersonal relationships with students from similar backgrounds. As if identity does not give an insight into the lived experience of English, scholarship, or academia which might be relevant for an educator.
As a cisgendered heterosexual white male (able-bodied, mid-to-upper class, non-religious) who has never been in any graduate cohort (out of, so far, 4) where the majority - the immense majority - did not share those identities (except for gender): boo hoo.
To be clear, if being rejected in favor of a diverse hire worries you: you are not worried about getting a job, you are worried about your privilege. If you want to worry about someone “screwing you out” of employment, maybe worry about all the non-diverse people who are gonna do that by virtue of all the access and opportunities they outnumber you with.

After reading a number of the threads here regarding concerns about academic employment, I thought it important to make a post about an issue that I have not seen mentioned. But I have certainly seen it in practice in my professional life. There is a great deal of discussion happening here about the collapse of the job market, and it’s certainly correct that it has taken a nosedive. Thousands of promising scholars and teachers will never find gainful employment in our profession. It’s even getting harder for many to find adjunct work. Some major fields of study have no hiring activity. The situation is grim across the board [https://www.mla.org/Resources/Career/Job-List/Reports-on-the-MLA-Job-Information-List].



One thing that needs to be acknowledged and discussed is the tremendous amount of pressure on humanities departments to further the diversity initiatives of their institutions. At the present time, humanities departments are being granted less and less tenure-track positions because undergraduate enrollment is significantly down. There has been a concerted effort by institutions to use the few available jobs in these programs to increase institutional diversity by making hires that promote diversity, equity, and inclusion [https://www.chronicle.com/article/How-to-Do-a-Better-Job-of/237750].This includes the practice of making opportunity hires and cluster hires as well as targeting scholars in specific fields/subfields where a diversity hire is likely to be made [https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2019/02/01/columbia-has-185-million-in-dedicated-funds-why-is-hiring-diverse-faculty-still-so-difficult-9/]. In some versions of opportunity hiring, a national search for a tenure-track position will not be conducted, especially if the diversity candidate is an adjunct or post-doc at the institution [https://diversity.wustl.edu/framework/faculty-advancement-institutional-diversity/support-hiring-faculty/].


This may be important for prospective students to consider because if these practices continue your ability to contribute to the institution’s diversity is a significant factor in your future employability. Keep in mind that this assessment is being made in a job market where there are few if any alternative positions for unsuccessful candidates. Aspects of your identity might play a role in your ability to have an academic career. I am not raising this issue to comment on whether or not these practices are good or bad.  They are most certainly happening at many institutions, and one should consider this in their calculus for whether or not this path is the right one for you.

1) I made my post to underline the fact that identity is playing a role in academic hiring at the present time. I included links to sources that demonstrate that fact. This is not obvious to everyone who aspires to enter this profession, and they should know about these practices before they decide to enter it.  I purposefully underlined in my original post that I was not commenting on the merits of these practices because that was not the issue. 
2) When asked to clarify my position, I explained further about my perspective on this practice and some of the concerns that I have. This is not "manipulative" or "bad faith" or "dishonest," although I realize that disagreement over these particular issues often leads to any number of accusations about the immorality of the person raising objections---in other words, ad hominem. Yes, it is possible for someone to comment on one aspect of an issue and have other thoughts about it that are contiguous and involve greater degrees of judgment. 
3) I did not write anywhere that "diversity is evil." "Diversity" at this point is a throwaway term that can mean any number of things. I'm addressing the specific practice in academia of hiring people based on the perception or self-identification of their protected class. And I'm raising concerns about that practice, especially in the context of a decimated job market. It's entirely possible that someone can value a diversity of opinions, beliefs, experiences, backgrounds, identities, and take issue with these practices. 
4) Title VII of the Cilvil Rights Act prohibits employers from basing hiring decisions on a candidate's protected class; this applies to every academic job search. Needless to say, critical race theory is not the law, and one should think very carefully about what it means to haphazardly make judgments about what identities are privileged over others; for anyone with any experience working with a diverse array of people, you quickly find that human beings and their backgrounds are deeply complex and nuanced.  One of the objections I have to these hiring practices is that they are underhanded and often prejudiced because they rely on the perception that someone is diverse without disclosing the criteria used to make those judgments or that they are even happening. I don't think I need to spell out all the reasons why essentializing identity might be a problem. 
 
 

I went to a "lower-ranked" program (I guess? It was ranked somewhere between #25-#35 in USNWR, with its exact placement shuffling around every few years). I have to say that I would not attend that specific program now, knowing what I know and what I've been through. 
I know people all over the place who didn't go to the world's greatest programs and still managed to find TT jobs. (Like anything, getting hired comes down to luck and nebulous ideas about "fit"--which are quirkier on the job market than in admissions). But yeah, it can be a lot harder to get a job. Or get into a conference. Or find the time to publish (since those who go to lower-ranked schools teach so much). And postdocs are extremely difficult to secure, because many of them are indeed "prestige obsessed."
But the worst thing about going to a low-ranking program is that you're always judged by where you got your PhD. Always. The obsessing over credentials and Ivies that goes on here? It doesn't go away after you start grad school, finish grad school, or get a job. 
There are a lot of people out there who believe quite strongly in Top Ten or Bust. Thing is, they don't believe it just for them. They believe it for the rest of us too. So when you bump into that person at a conference ... or during a fellowship ... or, worst of all, on a search committee, they are going to be holding you to the standard to which they held themselves. They are going to be thinking to themselves, "Why did this person decide to go to Fredericksburg State for their PhD? Didn't they understand that it's Top Ten or Bust? What were they thinking? Or maybe they just couldn't get into to a good school? Then why did they even bother to go? I would have applied a million times over so as not to go to Fredericksburg State."
The most demoralizing thing of all is when the faculty at your own program feel this way about you and your fellow grad students. I actually ran into that a lot at my program. Like most R1 schools, our faculty was recruited almost completely out of Ivies. And there were a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle digs about our prospects. One guy who served as our JPO went to Berkeley--without funding. And he really looked down at us because of the program we were attending. 
I know many people who went to the top programs and who hold varying attitudes about people who attend lower-ranked schools (or some of them are at least good about keeping their real feelings under wraps), but two of them stick out to me. One is a person who applied three times in order to go to a top program, actually "dropping out of life" completely while she was trying to get in and incurring a lot of debt in the process. She turned down solid and well-ranked programs on the way. I thought this was insane. In the time it took her just to get into grad school, I was already through coursework and exams at my lower-ranked program. But she did eventually get into her top choice, and she's by far the most ruthless person I know about all this. She'll definitely be on admissions committees and search committees in the future--IMO to the detriment of more "working class" or non-traditional people in the field. 
The other person looks down on all people who went to a program outside the top 5. She once referred to Princeton as "not a fab English program." I kinda didn't know what to say to that.
But anyway--that's what you'll encounter out there with a degree from a lower-ranked school. The people you bump up against at this stage who don't think there's life outside the top 10? They don't go away, and they don't learn, and they aren't disabused of their notions. They stick around and get the good jobs, and from that vantage point they continue to replicate the same kind of attitudes that make it difficult for low-ranked PhDs in the first place. 
That is what I wish I had known. 

Strong disagree. It's very straightforward: it is not at all worth it.
Ranking of programs isn't some arbitrary thing. The reason why Harvard etc. always top the list is not simply because everyone's heard of them. They also have a lot more money to throw around, give their students a more reasonable teaching load, and can bring in important professors every week to socialize. The advantages are manifold.
That said, ranking for grad progams isn't exactly a science. I definitely wouldn't go as far down the list as the 50s though. 10s at best.

No, I personally would say that schools and applicants do not have the same idea of "fit." Applicants are picking based on more than academic interests, including where they want to live, the type of people they want to socialize with, the type of environment they want to work in, the type of career they want to have afterwards, how much the program can pay them... For the committees, it's purely academic, but also random as hell. Decisions aren't made on who is the "smartest" or "best," but rather who's on the committee that year, who took too many students last year, who hasn't taken students in awhile... The applicants aren't aware of these arbitrary factors, so all applicants can do is present the most accurate depiction of who they are as a student and hope that there's a need in the program for a student like them.

I literally scored in the twentieth percentile for quant. It’s probably the least important part of your application. I wouldn’t even consider it part of your application, but you do have to submit it as part of your test scores. 

Just putting it out there that I’m available to answer questions anyone might have, having gone through the process just a few months ago. Feel free to PM me. My notifications for PM’s are on. Good luck to everyone—it’s an exciting time! 

Just putting it out there that I’m available to answer questions anyone might have, having gone through the process just a few months ago. Feel free to PM me. My notifications for PM’s are on. Good luck to everyone—it’s an exciting time! 

I literally scored in the twentieth percentile for quant. It’s probably the least important part of your application. I wouldn’t even consider it part of your application, but you do have to submit it as part of your test scores. 

I literally scored in the twentieth percentile for quant. It’s probably the least important part of your application. I wouldn’t even consider it part of your application, but you do have to submit it as part of your test scores. 

I wouldn't consider this trolling. I think it is extremely important for us to continuously confront and recognize the state of the job market and demand that institutions are honest, upfront, detailed, and transparent about their TT placement rates.

I'm probably going to sign off on GradCafe for the foreseeable future! This place was incredibly helpful to me throughout this process, but I think I'm going to dedicate the rest of spring/summer to just reading, relaxing, and trying to prepare myself for the next 6+ years. (Also I should start learning French.)
I do plan to check back in periodically (plus I'm sure I'll have questions or see a discussion I'd like to chime in on), but if any future applicants look back through this thread and have questions about applications/programs/etc, feel free to PM me! Hopefully I will check in frequently enough to see it and respond. I'm not sure how helpful my advice may be, but I thought I'd put that offer out there. Over the past few months, I've become really upset with the admission process and the way it makes applicants question their worth as scholars... I know my ass was saved a few times by people who were kind enough to sit down and give me pointers, so I'm happy to do that as much as I can for anyone else. 
I'm really proud of the group we had here this year. I'm not sure if this is common or not, but I was pleasantly surprised by the support we gave each other, and the genuine happiness we felt for others success even in the midst of our own "failures" (yuck, that's definitely not the right word). I'm really hoping this is representative of graduate students on a larger scale, but I guess I'll have to wait until the fall to find out more about that. Thanks for everything guys!! Hope to see you around.

Late to the game, but I accepted my offer a few days ago at Brown! 
I had a fairly idiosyncratic application process in the sense that I applied across disciplines but literary studies has always been my intellectual "home" and I'm very excited to start next fall congratulations everyone! 
 
 

I'm probably going to sign off on GradCafe for the foreseeable future! This place was incredibly helpful to me throughout this process, but I think I'm going to dedicate the rest of spring/summer to just reading, relaxing, and trying to prepare myself for the next 6+ years. (Also I should start learning French.)
I do plan to check back in periodically (plus I'm sure I'll have questions or see a discussion I'd like to chime in on), but if any future applicants look back through this thread and have questions about applications/programs/etc, feel free to PM me! Hopefully I will check in frequently enough to see it and respond. I'm not sure how helpful my advice may be, but I thought I'd put that offer out there. Over the past few months, I've become really upset with the admission process and the way it makes applicants question their worth as scholars... I know my ass was saved a few times by people who were kind enough to sit down and give me pointers, so I'm happy to do that as much as I can for anyone else. 
I'm really proud of the group we had here this year. I'm not sure if this is common or not, but I was pleasantly surprised by the support we gave each other, and the genuine happiness we felt for others success even in the midst of our own "failures" (yuck, that's definitely not the right word). I'm really hoping this is representative of graduate students on a larger scale, but I guess I'll have to wait until the fall to find out more about that. Thanks for everything guys!! Hope to see you around.

I'm probably going to sign off on GradCafe for the foreseeable future! This place was incredibly helpful to me throughout this process, but I think I'm going to dedicate the rest of spring/summer to just reading, relaxing, and trying to prepare myself for the next 6+ years. (Also I should start learning French.)
I do plan to check back in periodically (plus I'm sure I'll have questions or see a discussion I'd like to chime in on), but if any future applicants look back through this thread and have questions about applications/programs/etc, feel free to PM me! Hopefully I will check in frequently enough to see it and respond. I'm not sure how helpful my advice may be, but I thought I'd put that offer out there. Over the past few months, I've become really upset with the admission process and the way it makes applicants question their worth as scholars... I know my ass was saved a few times by people who were kind enough to sit down and give me pointers, so I'm happy to do that as much as I can for anyone else. 
I'm really proud of the group we had here this year. I'm not sure if this is common or not, but I was pleasantly surprised by the support we gave each other, and the genuine happiness we felt for others success even in the midst of our own "failures" (yuck, that's definitely not the right word). I'm really hoping this is representative of graduate students on a larger scale, but I guess I'll have to wait until the fall to find out more about that. Thanks for everything guys!! Hope to see you around.

I'm probably going to sign off on GradCafe for the foreseeable future! This place was incredibly helpful to me throughout this process, but I think I'm going to dedicate the rest of spring/summer to just reading, relaxing, and trying to prepare myself for the next 6+ years. (Also I should start learning French.)
I do plan to check back in periodically (plus I'm sure I'll have questions or see a discussion I'd like to chime in on), but if any future applicants look back through this thread and have questions about applications/programs/etc, feel free to PM me! Hopefully I will check in frequently enough to see it and respond. I'm not sure how helpful my advice may be, but I thought I'd put that offer out there. Over the past few months, I've become really upset with the admission process and the way it makes applicants question their worth as scholars... I know my ass was saved a few times by people who were kind enough to sit down and give me pointers, so I'm happy to do that as much as I can for anyone else. 
I'm really proud of the group we had here this year. I'm not sure if this is common or not, but I was pleasantly surprised by the support we gave each other, and the genuine happiness we felt for others success even in the midst of our own "failures" (yuck, that's definitely not the right word). I'm really hoping this is representative of graduate students on a larger scale, but I guess I'll have to wait until the fall to find out more about that. Thanks for everything guys!! Hope to see you around.

To anyone on NYU's waitlist: I've heard that a greater number of students accepted their initial offer than expected, so they likely won't be using the waitlist. Just wanted to give you guys a heads up about that, given the approaching deadline and the need to make final decisions.

I'm probably going to sign off on GradCafe for the foreseeable future! This place was incredibly helpful to me throughout this process, but I think I'm going to dedicate the rest of spring/summer to just reading, relaxing, and trying to prepare myself for the next 6+ years. (Also I should start learning French.)
I do plan to check back in periodically (plus I'm sure I'll have questions or see a discussion I'd like to chime in on), but if any future applicants look back through this thread and have questions about applications/programs/etc, feel free to PM me! Hopefully I will check in frequently enough to see it and respond. I'm not sure how helpful my advice may be, but I thought I'd put that offer out there. Over the past few months, I've become really upset with the admission process and the way it makes applicants question their worth as scholars... I know my ass was saved a few times by people who were kind enough to sit down and give me pointers, so I'm happy to do that as much as I can for anyone else. 
I'm really proud of the group we had here this year. I'm not sure if this is common or not, but I was pleasantly surprised by the support we gave each other, and the genuine happiness we felt for others success even in the midst of our own "failures" (yuck, that's definitely not the right word). I'm really hoping this is representative of graduate students on a larger scale, but I guess I'll have to wait until the fall to find out more about that. Thanks for everything guys!! Hope to see you around.

Officially going to UVA!
Thanks to everyone who has helped with advice, information, and just generally making this community the supportive place it is. I've been here for 3 years now and I'm glad to be moving on to the next stage finally.

today in surreal sentences: headed to UVA in the fall! 

I'm probably going to sign off on GradCafe for the foreseeable future! This place was incredibly helpful to me throughout this process, but I think I'm going to dedicate the rest of spring/summer to just reading, relaxing, and trying to prepare myself for the next 6+ years. (Also I should start learning French.)
I do plan to check back in periodically (plus I'm sure I'll have questions or see a discussion I'd like to chime in on), but if any future applicants look back through this thread and have questions about applications/programs/etc, feel free to PM me! Hopefully I will check in frequently enough to see it and respond. I'm not sure how helpful my advice may be, but I thought I'd put that offer out there. Over the past few months, I've become really upset with the admission process and the way it makes applicants question their worth as scholars... I know my ass was saved a few times by people who were kind enough to sit down and give me pointers, so I'm happy to do that as much as I can for anyone else. 
I'm really proud of the group we had here this year. I'm not sure if this is common or not, but I was pleasantly surprised by the support we gave each other, and the genuine happiness we felt for others success even in the midst of our own "failures" (yuck, that's definitely not the right word). I'm really hoping this is representative of graduate students on a larger scale, but I guess I'll have to wait until the fall to find out more about that. Thanks for everything guys!! Hope to see you around.