NDSEG 2019-2020

[BCHGang]

3 hours ago, vernigan said:

Mine was last updated 02/28, and hasn't changed. 

Ah, I didn't phrase my statement correctly. What I meant was that if you weren't updated beyond December, chances are you didn't make the cut. My apologies. Since you were updated in February, you probably did make the cut.

[Physicsisphysics]

I feel like it doesn't make sense to speculate, we're just giving ourselves a headache over dates which we don't know anything about. I think decisions will come out soon and we'll be able to know then.

[8008jsmith]

If we are denied, is there a way to find out why? My last update was 12/20 and I applied to ARO. I thought I was pretty competitive but it's odd that some folks are updated yesterday. 

[scavanaugh]

They don't normally give out comments like how nsf does. Last year the company running it just said 'didn't make it past initial review', 'past initial review, but not to subject matter experts' 'final review/wait list' or 'accepted'.

 

It's been handled by a new company every year for the past few years though, so it's hard to say for certain if that'll change. 

[cellbiogal]

32 minutes ago, 8008jsmith said:

If we are denied, is there a way to find out why? My last update was 12/20 and I applied to ARO. I thought I was pretty competitive but it's odd that some folks are updated yesterday. 

I felt pretty competitive too. Excellent undergrad and grad GPA, 5 yrs research experience, internal fellowship, national conferences, etc. So hey, maybe a last update of 12/20 is a good thing. It's all speculation though and, like others said, we'll know the results soon enough.

[PopSoc]

Adding a data point 

ARO

Discipline: Cognitive, Neural, And Behavioral Sciences

Last Update:4/3/2020

[BCHGang]

1 hour ago, 8008jsmith said:

If we are denied, is there a way to find out why? My last update was 12/20 and I applied to ARO. I thought I was pretty competitive but it's odd that some folks are updated yesterday. 

This is one thing I find a bit odd. No feedback. I can understand it's a lot of work, but it gives closure and help us improve. A learning experience ! ?

[Metals_123]

I submitted my application way back in october, never got a validation email only the initial one, and was a finalist last year. The date indeed has not changed from 10/22. So either they lost my application behind a dumpster or I didnt make. Or option 3, this website has already been doing bizarre things and perhaps the dates are yet another.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Metals_123

[BCHGang]

32 minutes ago, Ooshfb said:

obviously it’s only a matter of time until we find out for sure, but just to keep up the fun of guessing, it seems as if reading this thread the majority of applicants actually had updates to their ndseg site after December. That’s the first bad news given that the majority of applicants don’t get the fellowship...

given that ndseg contractor updates the page separately from the reviewers (based on a commenter calling and asking them about the dates previously), it seems like they would only update as the reviews pour in AND the status of the applicant changes from “under consideration” to “denied.”

Then it would make sense the dates after December are all different, since it’s panelist, BAA and discipline-dependent when the decision is made. And it is probably the case that applications are slowly being rejected and DoD is letting sysplus know so they can update the system. 

also interesting that some people with December updates seem pretty confident they looked good on paper, or already won GRFP so are competitive and would pass the initial gpa and gre reviews. 

my final guess is that it’s bad news to have a post-December update, and a December update either means you’re still under consideration or were weeded out immediately due to gpa/gre cutoff if you were very low (depending on BAA and discipline). 

I want to believe. Is this the ultimate red pill?

[Wowahy]

25 minutes ago, Ooshfb said:

obviously it’s only a matter of time until we find out for sure, but just to keep up the fun of guessing, it seems as if reading this thread the majority of applicants actually had updates to their ndseg site after December. That’s the first bad news given that the majority of applicants don’t get the fellowship...

given that ndseg contractor updates the page separately from the reviewers (based on a commenter calling and asking them about the dates previously), it seems like they would only update as the reviews pour in AND the status of the applicant changes from “under consideration” to “denied.”

Then it would make sense the dates after December are all different, since it’s panelist, BAA and discipline-dependent when the decision is made. And it is probably the case that applications are slowly being rejected and DoD is letting sysplus know so they can update the system. 

also interesting that some people with December updates seem pretty confident they looked good on paper, or already won GRFP so are competitive and would pass the initial gpa and gre reviews. 

my final guess is that it’s bad news to have a post-December update, and a December update either means you’re still under consideration or were weeded out immediately due to gpa/gre cutoff if you were very low (depending on BAA and discipline). 

Your logic doesn't hold up. If the status updates were just to update the application status to rejected, why would there be a second update to those applications on April 3rd? Furthermore, not all post December updates received a second April update. On top of that, many February update applicants also received the grfp. Most likely either the updates are meaningless or the updates signify being moved to the next round. The only thing is I'm also a December update applicant and in terms of pure academic numbers, I'm not sure what else I could've done. I have a near perfect GPA and GRE scores along with a pretty good amount of research for my discipline. I thought I would be able to get past the first round and then get kicked out on more subjective things like my research proposal.

[cellbiogal]

I want to believe. ?

[Nutellaoatmeal]

7 hours ago, Ooshfb said:

obviously it’s only a matter of time until we find out for sure, but just to keep up the fun of guessing, it seems as if reading this thread the majority of applicants actually had updates to their ndseg site after December. That’s the first bad news given that the majority of applicants don’t get the fellowship...

given that ndseg contractor updates the page separately from the reviewers (based on a commenter calling and asking them about the dates previously), it seems like they would only update as the reviews pour in AND the status of the applicant changes from “under consideration” to “denied.”

Then it would make sense the dates after December are all different, since it’s panelist, BAA and discipline-dependent when the decision is made. And it is probably the case that applications are slowly being rejected and DoD is letting sysplus know so they can update the system. 

also interesting that some people with December updates seem pretty confident they looked good on paper, or already won GRFP so are competitive and would pass the initial gpa and gre reviews. 

my final guess is that it’s bad news to have a post-December update, and a December update either means you’re still under consideration or were weeded out immediately due to gpa/gre cutoff if you were very low (depending on BAA and discipline). 

I also think this is likely... Last update for me was 12/6 and I submitted to the ONR for mechanical engineering. I submitted an almost identical application to NSF GRFP (or as similar as possible, given the different lengths allocated to parts of the application) and received NSF for Robotics & Computer Vision. Definitely a good chance I didn't get NDSEG (with the odds) but I'd be a bit surprised if I was eliminated in the first round.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Nutellaoatmeal

[cellbiogal]

It seems the smallest percentage of folks have no update past their initial application, so it would make sense that those are the people most seriously being considered since we know such a small percent of awards are given. Running with this theory, that means people with February 28 and April 3 updates are not currently being considered. But I'm not sure what to make of people like myself who's updates are sprinkled throughout December.

It'd be great if everyone followed up after the awards announcement so we could piece this together, I'm invested in this mystery now lol.

[somethingsimple]

Or it could be that we are separated arbitrarily into lists and every time someone on a list gets updated, everyone's gets updated. We do know that each panelist reviews 20 applications so it could be clustered that way. That could either mean denied in a first round or denied in later rounds. It could mean one person on the list was accepted and 19 others on that list denied. It could mean one person on the list made it through to the next round but everyone's date is updated. It could mean your reviewer is slow and the last time your date was updated was when they accessed the applications they're reviewing, hence, an early date. It could mean they submitted their evaluated applications through an alternative means (emailed excel sheet vs. portal) so applications either got updated or not and the internal admin are pulling results from multiple medias. Or we could all be denied, we just don't know how it's working. But I have hope for everyone. We're likely all competitive applicants unless you applied on a whim and didn't put in much effort into your app. What I'm trying to say is it would be great to crack the code once we have the results, but no use in speculating for now. I know it hasn't helped my anxiety, that's for sure.

Edited April 5, 2020 by somethingsimple

[ScienceGeek]

Maybe we can all say when our last update was when we post our results to see if we can crack the code for next year's applicants :). All in all, it has been amusing reading all of the theories and I love the curiosity

[Porhypet]

I'm with somethingsimple. There really isn't enough information to determine the meaning of the updates. The weirdest thing to me about the updates is that some people got two. This would seem to contradict the idea that an update means you were denied because why would you be denied twice. I would also like to point out that we are a very small subset of the applicants and that we are all people who are bothering to look at whatever information we can about the application. So, we shouldn't assume our discussion group matches the 5-10% acceptance. Also, winning the GRFP does not immediately mean winning NDSEG. It does mean that individual is a skilled writer and researcher but the GRFP and NDSEG do not support the exact same projects. NDSEG is less willing to support fundamental science and more willing to support something where they can see a return on investment.   

[ScienceGeek]

There really isn't enough information to even say that because we could all get two updates, similar to how they update the portal with the final determination! The mystery continues haha

[thel]

It's unfortunate that we may never know what these dates mean, since they likely won't tell us. That being said, it's fun to wildly speculate... here's my guess:

1. <= Dec 6th: you submitted the app
2. Dec ~20th: you made it through the initial bureaucracy checks (GPA, completion, etc.), and was sent for review
3. Feb ~20th: your review was one of the "top 30%" as ranked by reviewers, sent to DOD
4. >= April 3: they are filling in the results from DOD as they come in (right now it just seems ARO are back)
5. I would expect that once all of the branches are back is when we will get the email

[3st3rb]

I can talk myself into being awarded and not, hahaha. My GRE wasn't the best, but the rest of my application was really strong and I was got HM on GRFP so that gives me hope. At the same time, if the goal of the fellowship is to increase the number of scientists/engineers with advanced degrees working on topics of military importance, I'd be a terrible choice because I ONLY did DoD product development work while in Industry (I'm a non-traditional student) and my advisor probably put in my app that I turned down a position in a funded projected in his lab this past year because it wasn't directly defense related. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by 3st3rb

[whatdothedatesmean]

Just to add a data point real fast, I applied to AFRL. Last week my update was 2/28. When I checked yesterday, my last update was 4/03 as well. Not sure what it means.

[curie2020]

Just now, whatdothedatesmean said:

Just to add a data point real fast, I applied to AFRL. Last week my update was 2/28. When I checked yesterday, my last update was 4/03 as well. Not sure what it means.

Nice username @whatdothedatesmean

 

[ScienceGeek]

@whatdothedatesmean your username made me laugh and I love it, thank you ?

[Nutellaoatmeal]

Haha ultimately I agree that this is all speculation and that there's also a good chance that the dates are entirely arbitrary. Best of luck to everyone, and remember to update with results so we can see if there is a trend!

[BCHGang]

3 hours ago, ScienceGeek said:

Maybe we can all say when our last update was when we post our results to see if we can crack the code for next year's applicants :). All in all, it has been amusing reading all of the theories and I love the curiosity

That's what makes us scientists. Curiosity and drive ! ? 

[justanothergradstudent]

hahaha honestly this is all a little psycho. I wish the NDSEG people could read this thread to see what theyre doing to us.