2021 Application Thread

[steinein]

46 minutes ago, aco2 said:

Hey folks, I have gotten a bunch of messages since posting my one acceptance, asking about my application process, etc. and I am happy to provide any feedback and answer questions whenever I can (as long as people know that this is not like a magic potion. I'm very lucky to have gotten in, but I don't pretend to know the secret to applying that nobody else knows). I have long felt that the nice thing about this community is that it's a group of wishful scholars supporting each other and providing a little clarification where possible to the more mysterious parts of this grad application process. 

That being said, I got an message this morning asking me if I was admitted to a particular program because it was the only program the writer had applied for and they stated that they hoped to "influence the outcome any way I can." This is so unbelievably inappropriate. It makes me sad to think that members of this community are going around trying to talk others out of attending programs that they were admitted to in the hopes of clearing their own way. Deciding on a program is a hard and intimate decision, and nobody should be trying to influence each other in any direction, let alone out of a good placement. 

I am going to step back here, and won't be reading any new messages. Please everyone try to be good to each other, and supportive rather than covetous when it comes to others' admissions. I know we are all desperate for good news in a hard year, but just be kind.

Hi, folks.

I'm sorry that it seemed as though I was doing something untoward. In cases where someone was admitted to multiple schools, I've regularly seen members encourage each other to decline offers or wait lists swiftly.

- steinein

 

For context:

2 hours ago, steinein said:

Hi, aco2.

Did you happen to apply to CHSS? If so, may I ask whether you were accepted or wait listed? I only applied to CHSS, and so I am quite interested in influencing the outcome any way that I can.

- steinein

[wfchasson]

U of M acceptances seem to have gone out--got one via email a moment ago. congrats to others as well. 

[history202-]

3 minutes ago, wfchasson said:

U of M acceptances seem to have gone out--got one via email a moment ago. congrats to others as well. 

Congratulations on your acceptance! A rejection for me. I appreciated that they let us know how many applicants they had (~300) and how many they took on (~3%). It was a nice touch to put the rejection in context. And not make us go to the portal!

So you made it in during an extra competitive year - that must feel pretty good. Enjoy the glow!

[wfchasson]

4 minutes ago, history202- said:

Congratulations on your acceptance! A rejection for me. I appreciated that they let us know how many applicants they had (~300) and how many they took on (~3%). It was a nice touch to put the rejection in context. And not make us go to the portal!

So you made it in during an extra competitive year - that must feel pretty good. Enjoy the glow!

Thank you ! Won't be accepting, so I hope they take someone off of the waitlist and give them that spot.

[dr. t]

17 hours ago, Boarskin said:

I applied to the MAPSS in 2018 and got accepted with 1/3 tuition covered. I ended up declining the offer but I know people who have 1/2 tuition covered or even more. So I would say that the MAPSS usually offers generous funding for its applicants.

Calling even 1/2 tuition on $60k without stipend "generous" stretches credulity. 

[Boarskin]

4 hours ago, telkanuru said:

Calling even 1/2 tuition on $60k without stipend "generous" stretches credulity. 

There are quite many MAs out there without any kind of funding or stipend. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Boarskin

[dr. t]

58 minutes ago, Boarskin said:

There are quite many MAs out there without any kind of funding or stipend. 

Yes, there are indeed many programs which you should not attend.

[ListlessCoffee]

1 hour ago, Boarskin said:

There are quite many MAs out there without any kind of funding or stipend. 

Unless you have wealthy folks or have fallen into some inheritance, you shouldn't be attending one of those programs. You should not be falling into significant student debt for a history MA. I am sure the MAPSS program places a lot of students into PhD programs, but it is a cash cow for Chicago.

Edited February 19, 2021 by ListlessCoffee

[Boarskin]

1 hour ago, ListlessCoffee said:

Unless you have wealthy folks or have fallen into some inheritance, you shouldn't be attending one of those programs. You should not be falling into significant student debt for a history MA. I am sure the MAPSS program places a lot of students into PhD programs, but it is a cash cow for Chicago.

I was accepted into a PhD program this year. All I was saying is that if a person is determined to attend a MA or equivalent degree, then he/ she might consider the MAPSS a good choice. 

You are right to say that a person should not be falling into significant student debt for a history MA, and I encourage everyone who is about to enter a MA program this year to weight the cost and the benefits. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Boarskin

[ListlessCoffee]

4 minutes ago, Boarskin said:

I was accepted into a PhD program this year. All I was saying is that if a person is determined to attend a MA or equivalent degree, then he/ she might consider the MAPSS a good choice. 

I'm sure it places students. You probably get a good look at academia, can build relationships with quality faculty (and therefore get good references), and will turn out a piece of research you can use as a writing sample. A genuine congrats on the acceptance btw. But, it's a horrible idea to go into student debt for a history MA. For MAPSS, if you're paying 30k or 40k for tuition (and that's their generous rate?) on top of the cost of living in Chicago, you'll be possibly going into what, $50-60,000+ of student debt? Maybe you can cut it to a few tens of thousands of debt if you get a fellowship or scholarship or find the time to work 10-20 hours a week? All to get an MA? And then if you get into a PhD (which is the only reason you'd go to MAPSS) you enter a 6-7 year PhD (where you won't be making enough on your stipend to pay that debt back) to graduate after about 12 years of school (4 undergrad+1 MAPSS+7 PhD roughly)....only to enter a horrible job market and with significant student debt? 

Look, if you're funded by parents or have money saved up...knock yourself out. If not...there are many other MA programs out there that won't cripple you. I'm not trying to be confrontational here -- I just don't think MAs like MAPSS should ever be encouraged around here unless you have extensive financial backing from another source. 

[dr. t]

8 hours ago, ListlessCoffee said:

Look, if you're funded by parents or have money saved up...knock yourself out. If not...there are many other MA programs out there that won't cripple you. I'm not trying to be confrontational here -- I just don't think MAs like MAPSS should ever be encouraged around here unless you have extensive financial backing from another source. 

I wasn't even going this far! A MAPSS with 1/2 tuition is something that one should consider; the MAPSS program is really good as these things go. Chicago is much better than, say, Columbia, when it comes to just taking MA money and running, although this is also a difference between the MAPSS and MAPH. 1/2 tuition is just not a good deal. 

[AnUglyBoringNerd]

@dr. telkanuru

I just noticed the "dr." part added to your name! If it means what I think it means, then congratulations! 

I joined the GradCafe when I was applying for the first time (and didn't get in anywhere) and now I am third year into my program and preparing for orals while applying for dissertation fellowships (and mostly just lurking)... It's so surreal to see things change a bit (though more than often they stay the same) here! O_O

[SAM311]

Jumping on the Duke bandwagon of questions to ask/plead/whine: has anyone heard anything from Duke? From conversations with my POI, decisions should have been made in December. They mentioned they typically waste no time and let people know early. Based on results from last year, it looks like that's typically the case. 

[AP]

1 hour ago, AnUglyBoringNerd said:

@dr. telkanuru

I just noticed the "dr." part added to your name! If it means what I think it means, then congratulations! 

I joined the GradCafe when I was applying for the first time (and didn't get in anywhere) and now I am third year into my program and preparing for orals while applying for dissertation fellowships (and mostly just lurking)... It's so surreal to see things change a bit (though more than often they stay the same) here! O_O

I join this congratulatory message. We've known each other for far too long!  

[ListlessCoffee]

18 minutes ago, SAM311 said:

Jumping on the Duke bandwagon of questions to ask/plead/whine: has anyone heard anything from Duke? From conversations with my POI, decisions should have been made in December. They mentioned they typically waste no time and let people know early. Based on results from last year, it looks like that's typically the case. 

On the results page an acceptance and a waitlist were posted earlier in February...I can also confirm that I know someone who has an acceptance there. In past years it does look like they released acceptances and rejections on the same day, but that might not have been the case this year...I suspect all of their acceptances have been sent out. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by ListlessCoffee

[SAM311]

3 minutes ago, ListlessCoffee said:

On the results page an acceptance and a waitlist were posted earlier in February...I can also confirm that I know someone who has an acceptance there. In past years it does look like they released acceptances and rejections on the same day, but that might not have been the case this year...I suspect their acceptances have been sent out. 

Ah, this is great. I mean...not great because it looks like I am adding another rejection to the list but great to have the slightest feeling of closure. Alas, it's not over til it's over? ha. 

Thank you! 

[setori]

Did anyone hear back anything from Harvard History of Science Dept? Acceptance or Rejection?

[cryloren]

I applied to 10+ programs, didn't get in anywhere. 

 

What do I do now?

[CakeWhite]

6 minutes ago, cryloren said:

I applied to 10+ programs, didn't get in anywhere. 

 

What do I do now?

This happened to me in 2019. I came out of undergrad at Berkeley with a STEM and a humanities degree, graduated with highest honors, doing research with Nobel laureates, etc. All the rejections were devastating at the time and my ego is still suffering a little bit but it ended up a blessing in disguise–I found a really amazing job and can move forward into graduate school with two additional years of solid work experience and a number of skills I wouldn't have learned otherwise. That work experience is very valuable to me now as I've come to better understand how dismal prospects are for historians in academia. It also helped me to formalize what I want to study and encouraged me to look for programs and start conversations with people that I wasn't aware of the first time around. I now know that even though I don't necessarily need graduate school to get done what I need to get done, I want to be surrounded by people as invested and engaged in the study as I am. I applied again this cycle and have had some modest success (two offers, seven rejections, one still in the ether) which I count as a win given that the history of certain sciences is so hyper-specific.

Let me know if you want to talk through it with someone who has been there. I don't know if there is anything I can say to make the present feel any better, but I can give support as you move forward 

 

[HRL]

17 minutes ago, cryloren said:

I applied to 10+ programs, didn't get in anywhere. 

 

What do I do now?

I'm in the same boat. Two years ago when I applied to programs and didn't get in anywhere, the obvious answer to "what do I do now" was get the MA. Now that I have the MA, it's less clear to me how to proceed to best position myself for next cycle (and if I even should apply again next cycle). 

Do you already have an MA? 

[ListlessCoffee]

6 hours ago, dr. telkanuru said:

I wasn't even going this far! A MAPSS with 1/2 tuition is something that one should consider; the MAPSS program is really good as these things go. Chicago is much better than, say, Columbia, when it comes to just taking MA money and running, although this is also a difference between the MAPSS and MAPH. 1/2 tuition is just not a good deal. 

That's fair! You likely know far more about the program than I do. That's just my personal take on it -- but I am also a bit of student-debt phobic person. I'll always caution someone against taking on significant student debt to get a degree that does not realistically offer a direct path to a well-paying career. And I don't think a history MA at any program realistically offers its students that -- certainly not enough to justify taking on tens of thousands in debt just for a 1-2 year degree. 

[Marccys]

6 hours ago, setori said:

Did anyone hear back anything from Harvard History of Science Dept? Acceptance or Rejection?

Did not hear back from the HoS Dept. But a user did submit a waitlist a couple of days ago. Not sure its implication to a/r (?)

[Sigaba]

3 hours ago, cryloren said:

What do I do now?

Hi, @cryloren. I recommend that you take two to four weeks off from thinking about graduate school so you can depressurize.

When you jump back into things, I recommend that you find ways to improve your writing. I also suggest that you think about how you define yourself as a historian. In regards to the latter, you have a wide range of interests (history, politics, medicine). That wide range may have worked against you in your SOPs. Are there ways to bring them all together as potential areas of interest?

@scarletwitch my two cents are that you would be well served by developing two or three sets of filters so you can get your current list of twenty schools down to five or six. That is, go from twenty to ten and then from ten to five. 

[TMP]

CONGRATS @dr. telkanuru   !!!! WAY TO GO

[QuarantineQuail]

4 hours ago, cryloren said:

I applied to 10+ programs, didn't get in anywhere. 

 

What do I do now?

 

Hey there, I imagine that you must be very disappointed right now. My suggestions are 1. Take some deep breathes. 2. Disconnect from social media/your phone/the internet for a while. 3. Do something that is fun for you. 4. Reach out to someone you have a good relationship with to talk about your feelings. If you like, I've shared my story below, I don't know if will be helpful or relatable, but I want you to know that it will be okay, and it gets better.

I was in your position six years ago. I stalked this board every day, waiting with breathless anticipation. I applied to I think 9 schools, maybe 10. I knew pure numerical odds were low but I believed that I had a good shot. One by one the rejections came in. I was crushed. I knew rationally not to take it personally but I still did. I felt I had everything; the GPA, the honors, the GRE, the LORs, even a national history award, how could I not get in anywhere? What was wrong with me?

Instead of going to grad school I got a minimum wage retail job and started to work. When you work retail nobody gives a rip how educated you are. It was humbling. I applied for a second round. Missed again. 0-2. I then got a teaching job and started doing that. Like retail customers, kids don't care one whit about your past accomplishments. Again, it was humbling. It was hard.  I did more growing up in one of year teaching than any other year of my life so far. I applied to a third round. This time, I got into an MA program with full funding, and so I went.

Ultimately, I am thankful I didn't get in the first time. When I think about why I wanted to go to grad school then, yes it was because I was passionate about the field, but it was also about my fear and ego. I believed I was exceptionally smart, and smart people got PhDs, so that's what I needed to do. I was also afraid of starting a "real job" and living in the "real world." And graduate school ways another way to delay that for half a decade or more. When I went back to school, even though it had only been 2 1/2 years since finishing undergrad, I felt like I had much more perspective on why I was there to do what I was doing. Having spent just a little time in the "real world" was helpful. And yes, grad school was in its own way humbling, and I grew up some more.

Round four doesn't look to be going so good for me. I have only one school left to hear from, and I'm not optimistic, but this is just how things are. I'm not taking it personally anymore. Who knows, maybe the PhD will never happen? Being professionally trained as a historian is a good thing but you don't have to have a PhD to do good history, though it is harder. There's a gentleman where I live, he worked a whole career at DNR and when he retired, he went to community college and took a few history classes because he was interested in Native history. He started doing his own historical research and eventually published a book on Native American history. He doesn't even hold a BA in history, yet his work has been utilized and cited by academics in the field. I'm so proud of him. He'll never have a PhD, yet in his golden years he is out there making meaningful contributions to the historical profession.