2021 Applicants Forum

[woweezowee]

35 minutes ago, sandy duncan said:

No one's real name was posted. 

Untrue.

[woweezowee]

23 minutes ago, sandy duncan said:

Fair enough, no non-moderator name was posted. And I think if you want to censor as moderator - in this case even driving EternalWhiteKnight to leave through secret private messages that you don't tell the group about - and if you don't allow any critique of your censorship in the private group, you waive some privacy. I suppose that is debatable. 

What is it that you think moderators do? I understand that as a persistent, boundary-violating, cross-platform, grudge-holding troll, moderation is inconvenient for you. But ultimately it's obvious that moderating a social media group will involve removing posts and troll accounts. 

Just take all your Ls and go.

 

[feralgrad]

@sandy duncan go to therapy

[Cristie]

I hope everyone is enjoying their Spring Break and going outside and soaking up some sunshine. The last several weeks haven't been my favorite. This process has been a pretty humbling experience.

I've heard it said that if you can't get into an MFA first round, to get into an MA for a year (work your ass off some more-improve writing and CV) and try again for the MFA on the next round. If anyone has actually done this with some success or advice about going this route, will you please share. Or do you accept something with no funding and pay for a year and try to get funding for the next? Can you go from one MFA program to a better one (is that a no-no)? What other options are there? This is my first attempt so looking for some advice from someone who was in my boat last year. What did you do?

[feralgrad]

9 minutes ago, Cristie said:

I've heard it said that if you can't get into an MFA first round, to get into an MA for a year (work your ass off some more-improve writing and CV) and try again for the MFA on the next round. If anyone has actually done this with some success or advice about going this route, will you please share. Or do you accept something with no funding and pay for a year and try to get funding for the next? Can you go from one MFA program to a better one (is that a no-no)? 

The MA-first route is an option for PhD programs, but I don't really hear of people doing it for MFAs. Honestly I don't see the point since MAs in creative writing are almost exclusively unfunded, so you're in the same boat.

As for accepting no funding and trying for the next year: In some programs it's possible, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you're 100% prepared for that plan to fail. It's a gamble.

Transferring to another program is rare. As with any terminal degree, it's expected that you're committed to the program unless there's some extenuating circumstance.

Personally, I think it's most cost-effective to try again next round, and look for fellow authors to exchange drafts with in the meantime (there are plenty of websites for this). That's what I did, and it worked out for me.

Edited March 22, 2021 by feralgrad

[Ydrl]

4 minutes ago, sandy duncan said:

There have been a lot of posts here that you can't transfer MFAs. If you start one, you can never got to another.

It's funny how you pulled that out of your ass, but not the massive stick that's up there too. You seem to know your way around town ??

Edited March 22, 2021 by Ydrl
less vulgar

[koechophe]

4 hours ago, eternalwhitenights said:

I just decided to exit for the greater good, both my own and the group's, and I'm happy with my decision. It certainly frees up more time on my end, ha!

I honestly admire your willingness to "turn the other cheek", as it were. But Imho, you weren't doing any harm, and I'm sure there were a lot of silent people who appreciated your uplifting tones. I'm not saying this because I think you should go back, I'm just saying that you shouldn't consider your time there to be net-negative when you have no way of knowing how often and how powerfully the things you said uplifted others. 

[koechophe]

Hey, late-night question for anyone who sees this. I've found that, for whatever reason, this entire process of waiting for replies from Grad schools has put some weird kind of mental block on my writing. Every time I sit down to write, it feels like that very process just reminds me of the fact that I am still waiting for answers for this year. I'm confident that when I actually have closure on this (which I also think is going to be rejection), writing will be my safe place again. I know myself very well, and I know that the rejections will just spur me to write more, but this waiting period has made it really hard to focus on new writing instead of fixating on the ever-present, "Did I actually get in?" 

Like I said, I know myself well enough to know that it'll go away when I have closure, and that rejection OR acceptance will motivate me to write more. I'm sure at least someone is doubting that, but that's honestly how my mind works. What I really want to know is, has anyone else experienced something similar?

[Ydrl]

4 hours ago, eternalwhitenights said:

Sorry to have worried anyone unnecessarily.

I decided to remove myself from the group for everyone's (both myself and the group's) overall wellness.

While I absolutely have loved (and still love) celebrating in everyone's successes and journeys to and through the MFA, some of the posts I made recently in Draft really seemed to do more harm than good for some Draft members, especially for members of color, and that is absolutely the LAST thing in the world I ever, ever wanted my words to cause or be a part of, especially within the context of me being a white woman.

I saw last summer in my own personal life and online activity how insanely, insanely vital and important it was to my own Black, international, first-generation, etc. friends in my own life, that white people actually speak up and take a stand against racism, especially in the face of so much silence, denial, avoidance, violence, and dismissal from other white people.

I wrote the post, and published it. Within about thirty minutes, I received a private message from a fellow Draft member letting me know that a lot of what I had posted had triggered and/or hurt and/or traumatized members of color of the group, and they explained to me certain aspects of how I had done this via my narrative choices. I immediately deleted the post because I did NOT want to trigger anybody else, or cause anymore trauma.

Later that day, because of the information shared with me via that private message, that my initial post had traumatized several members of the Draft community, I wrote a public apology post stating essentially what I told you above, that hurting or triggering BIPOC members of the community was the last thing I intended with my initial post. This post resulted in a mute for three days, which I tried to understand as best I could, and which I actually messaged the moderator about privately and said thank you and apologized once again for any hurt I had caused to vulnerable members of the community. I also said to please let me know if there was any further action I needed to take from a reparational standpoint, and that I would be happy to do it.

After I took some time to reflect on the words in my post, I DMed (for the second time) the person who had initially alerted me to the discomfort my initial post had caused for Draft members of color, and thanked them for taking the time to speak up and let me know the issue right away so I could prevent any further damage/harm from being done via my words in my initial post. They responded, and I was told by them that their silence to my initial message should have been clue enough that they weren't inviting any further responses from me, and that my message saying, "Hey, I heard you; your words impacted me," was still centering myself and my feelings, that they weren't inviting any further communication from me, and that I should not message them any longer, especially as a way to work out my "white guilt." I just said, "Absolutely. No problem," and left it at that. 

I took a step back at that point, and tried to understand, the best I could, if there was anything I could have done or said better, reflect on what I could learn from this experience, etc. 

The final facet of choosing to leave, ultimately, for me, came from reactions to a comment I made on a member's decision to accept a school's offer yesterday. I essentially said how proud I was of them (phrasing I've used on pretty much every congratulations statement I've made thus far), and used the phrase, "Kid, you're going places!!" and this member commented that they felt infantilized via that statement. I apologized, stated that it's a moniker I use regularly with people in my life, essentially as a term of endearment/figure of speech (much like, "You go, girl!" or "Rock on, homie!" or something to that effect). A moderator also stated that that choice of language was infantilizing and that I needed to cut it out.

In Draft, it seemed like what I was saying was hurting people more than helping them.

I don't want anyone to get offended or get angry at anyone else. I don't expect anyone to like or upvote this post. However, I do feel like it's an important thing to think about, that it's worth something. I can't be the only one here that needs to hear something like this.

I edited this down to the things that really mattered. I wrestled with saying "You did your best to apologize" or "It's okay". But I couldn't shake the feeling that something was wrong. I replaced a trigger for people of color with my worst trigger. It fucked with my head, because I knew that for a good chunk of people, how I feel about my worst trigger is exactly how other people feel about their triggers tied to current events.

It's can be hard to predict what people will or will not be triggered by, I get it. My new trigger is particularly hard to know unless I mention it, or I get triggered and have to explain anyway. References to recent and/or especially rampant violence, death, racism, abuse...etc. are all things that should scream "don't talk about this in a completely unrelated space."

No matter how nicely you say something, or tack on an apology or explanation afterwards, it can still hurt people badly. And I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm hurt, the last thing I want to deal with is the person that hurt me in any capacity, no matter if they want to help or hurt again.

I know you didn't mean any of this, but not knowing how something hurt somebody isn't a great defense when the information is there and you haven't found all the answers yet.

I'm sorry.

[eternalwhitenights]

15 minutes ago, koechophe said:

I honestly admire your willingness to "turn the other cheek", as it were. But Imho, you weren't doing any harm, and I'm sure there were a lot of silent people who appreciated your uplifting tones. I'm not saying this because I think you should go back, I'm just saying that you shouldn't consider your time there to be net-negative when you have no way of knowing how often and how powerfully the things you said uplifted others. 

That's very kind of you.  For me, at least at this point in my life, it was the right decision to leave, and I definitely don't consider it a net negative at all! It was really eye-opening, and actually really fun, to be swept up in the decision-making flurry of activity, and see people post and freak out and have people understand solidarity-wise about what an emotional rollercoaster this whole process can be. I also learned a lot, and gathered some tips for next year's application, so that in and of itself is a net positive, and I'm glad I was a part of the group, even if simply for that reason alone.

I can only hope that any encouragement or excitement I expressed helped others in some way. That's all I ever wanted to do, and, I'm sure it's a bit cheesy, but I honestly just get so much genuine joy at seeing others succeed. I love encouraging others, and, kind of like you said, you never know when a smile or a kind word could just turn someone's day around, and I think that's a pretty awesome thing to be able to do for others. To me, seeing others succeed was the best part of being in the group, and the silly memes and coping comments people posted, and just reading about people's successes and stories about how they got to where they are today, were what brought me such joy while I was in it. Those were lovely moments, and I'm glad I experienced them.

Also, at the end of the day, I realize that I have no way of knowing all the intricacies of someone's life story, and what experiences they've had up to that point that cause them to react to words or pictures or statements--or whatever--in the way that they do. Their feelings--as mine are--are valid, and I would like to honor them, and my own, as such.

Also, as a white woman, I always try to keep in mind that I do not experience lived, racial, intergenerational trauma daily, so how can I judge or draw snap conclusions about someone's reaction who does experience that everyday, without taking that vital factor into context, and conclude immediately that I didn't cause harm? I try to make damn well sure that I evaluate whatever the conversation or moment happened to be that catalyzed said hypothetical reaction from a person of color, and take time to educate myself and think about the reasons said person could possibly have been hurt by my words, phrasing, etc., because their experiences and hearts matter to me, and I'd like to understand as much as I can. A key part of my privilege is recognizing that I have not experienced so many of the things BIPOC individuals have, so one of the best things I can do is just simply listen to their experiences, believe them, and take the time to place myself in their shoes to imagine what experiencing that all the time must feel like, and then retake a look at the exchange through that lens, so I can just be a better overall human, and hopefully an ally, and even friend.

Also, one of the biggest things I've learned this year in all of the reading, listening, educating, etc. I've immersed myself in, is that BIPOC individuals are so rarely (if ever) given space to just be freaking human in white-oriented or dominated spaces, and I have zero interest in being the white lady that takes over their moment of expressing emotion, or that causes them to not feel safe, when they do express their hearts and emotions fully in a space where 99% of the time their perspective is tone-policed, silenced, tokenized, lashed out at in defensiveness, undermined, denied, downplayed, or just straight up ignored. I can only imagine that would wear on someone, and perhaps cause them to be silent, if that happened to them constantly, and I don't want to be a cause or trigger or perpetuator of that silence. I know I have and will continue to make mistakes along the way, and that being anti-racist, and just simply valuing others in the fullness of the inherently worthy humanity, is a lifelong process, and will require me to continue to daily unpack the conceptions I have of others, challenge my own prejudices, and just try to love the best I can.

I know I got on a bit of a soapbox there, ha...please know that passion wasn't directed at anything you said ?; in essence, I think why all the stuff of the past few days hurt me the way it did, is precisely because amplifying marginalized voices is so important to me, and it's something I care about to the depths of my being. I just really care about people feeling heard, safe, and loved, you know? I'm also conscious that marginalized communities' voices are silenced so often, undervalued, and swept aside, and I never, ever want to be the person that does that.

Okay, I'll stop rambling now, but thank you very much for your kind words, and congrats on making it through my screed in the first place. ? I truly wish nothing but the best for every single person on there, and I'm still very excited to see what both GradCafe-ers and Drafters accomplish!

[Graceful Entropy]

I would just like to post a friendly reminder that when we quote reply trolls, those quotes remain up even after their deletions by grad cafe moderators.
Feel free to choose how you prefer to use this info, but just wanted to post that thought.

[eternalwhitenights]

16 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

I don't want anyone to get offended or get angry at anyone else. I don't expect anyone to like or upvote this post. However, I do feel like it's an important thing to think about, that it's worth something. I can't be the only one here that needs to hear something like this.

I edited this down to the things that really mattered. I wrestled with saying "You did your best to apologize" or "It's okay". But I couldn't shake the feeling that something was wrong. I replaced a trigger for people of color with my worst trigger. It fucked with my head, because I knew that for a good chunk of people, how I feel about my worst trigger is exactly how other people feel about their triggers tied to current events.

It's can be hard to predict what people will or will not be triggered by, I get it. My new trigger is particularly hard to know unless I mention it, or I get triggered and have to explain anyway. References to recent and/or especially rampant violence, death, racism, abuse...etc. are all things that should scream "don't talk about this in a completely unrelated space."

No matter how nicely you say something, or tack on an apology or explanation afterwards, it can still hurt people badly. And I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm hurt, the last thing I want to deal with is the person that hurt me in any capacity, no matter if they want to help or hurt again.

I know you didn't mean any of this, but not knowing how something hurt somebody isn't a great defense when the information is there and you haven't found all the answers yet.

I'm sorry.

Actually, I am so grateful you posted this! You articulated much of what I was trying to say, but didn't know the words for, in many ways. Especially, when you said:

"References to recent and/or especially rampant violence, death, racism, abuse...etc. are all things that should scream "don't talk about this in a completely unrelated space."

No matter how nicely you say something, or tack on an apology or explanation afterwards, it can still hurt people badly. And I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm hurt, the last thing I want to deal with is the person that hurt me in any capacity, no matter if they want to help or hurt again." ---

that is exactly what I realized when I took a step back and thought about how mentioning events of such trauma or hurt, however well-intentioned--I took a step back and realized just how much I need to think before posting something like that, just like you said, in a completely unrelated space. I should have thought a LOT more carefully about that, and I will take that lesson to heart moving forward. 

And, I don't know if this is weird to say, but I actually don't think you have to say "it's okay" or anything to that effect to me at all (as much as I appreciate the kindness), because, the fact is, I did hurt people from vulnerable communities in some way, and that matters, a lot. It's this super weird, simultaneous type of dual tension of, what I said wasn't *okay*, persay, because it did trigger, or hurt someone in a vulnerable community, and yet, at the same time, my feelings and heart matter, too, and I have to watch out in myself for just downplaying or ignoring my own heart in important discussions for the sake of keeping the peace, or because I'm embarrassed at what I said--whatever the reason may be. It's a very delicate line to walk, and balancing on it/navigating it is a biatch, but at least for me, what it really comes down to is, someone got hurt, and the least important thing in that situation is comforting me or reassuring me that I'm a "good" human or whatever, because the most important factor (again, to me at least) is that someone who is vulnerable got hurt, I played some part in that, and while, as you said, there's no possible way to know what is going to trigger each individual person, if there is anything I can do to learn from it, or learn how to be more loving, I want to know how I can.

Seriously, thanks so much for posting that. ❤️ You really captured many of the things I was trying to say.  Also, I hope you're doing okay re: the triggers you mentioned; I'll keep you in my prayers extra, and I'm sending you big, ginormous hugs across the Interwebs for any instances you've experienced, especially recently, that have traumatized, triggered, or hurt you in any way. I hope your heart is all right. ❤️

[eternalwhitenights]

P.S. @YdrlI most definitely think your post is worth being upvoted! I did! ? 

[Ydrl]

Can we talk about something that's not problematic? Like trying to navigate MFA nonsense. That sounds quite nice right about now.

[jka0124]

11 hours ago, sandy duncan said:

11 hours ago, woweezowee said:

 

Well, to start with, there should be no secret, threatening private messages, such as the one that drove EternalWhiteKnight out. What the moderators do should be disclosed. 

Where did EWK say there was a threatening private message? The exchange she mentions was right in the post. 
 

Anyway, MFAs, blah blah blah, Columbia takes forever. Someone I know got into the program in August. That feels terrifying. 

[NLake]

Today I’m wishing I knew more about Alaska’s funding situation. I got an acceptance email from admissions on Saturday that said a formal acceptance letter would follow shortly, but I’ve not heard anything yet. Hoping something comes through when they hit business hours today, but I’m so antsy over here waiting. 

[koechophe]

7 hours ago, sandy duncan said:

Do you want me to critique it? I won't if you say no. 

Go for it. I'm always happy for critique. 

[SMSM1229]

45 minutes ago, jka0124 said:

Where did EWK say there was a threatening private message? The exchange she mentions was right in the post. 
 

Anyway, MFAs, blah blah blah, Columbia takes forever. Someone I know got into the program in August. That feels terrifying. 

Were they on the waitlist?

[koechophe]

@Ydrl I got my OSU rejection today, the assistant graduate director emailed me and told me it was a "no", I'm pretty sure because I asked about a week ago, but their departmental ones should be going out in the next few days, would be my guess. Someone posted a poetry acceptance today, so maybe they're still waiting on confirmation for poetry, but at least fiction is most likely wrapped up. 

[jka0124]

1 minute ago, SMSM1229 said:

Were they on the waitlist?

Yep. They just didn’t think they’d be on it until August. How do you even survive a season that long? 

[Yellow62]

Being on the waitlist for a dream program is a special kind of pain #justmondaythoughts

[Ydrl]

39 minutes ago, koechophe said:

@Ydrl I got my OSU rejection today, the assistant graduate director emailed me and told me it was a "no", I'm pretty sure because I asked about a week ago, but their departmental ones should be going out in the next few days, would be my guess. Someone posted a poetry acceptance today, so maybe they're still waiting on confirmation for poetry, but at least fiction is most likely wrapped up. 

I'm sorry about your rejection. I'm expecting one from Florida at some point. I just got done playing phone tag with their admissions office, the liberal arts college, and finally had to leave a message with the department, which might lead to another phone call and message to the program. All over a lack of response to my emails, and my lack of a status update. This is a nightmare.

[Ydrl]

18 minutes ago, Yellow62 said:

Being on the waitlist for a dream program is a special kind of pain #justmondaythoughts

That's a big mood. If Maryland accepts me I'll cry happy tears until I drive there, then continue to cry when I get there.

[M-Lin]

Would love to know from anyone who’s been admitted to Columbia - did you get any funding? I know Columbia is notorious about funding but in past results, there’s mention of some kind of full scholarship package or at least partial funding. (I know they pick favorites and give a little more money for second year, etc.) 

It seemed like NYU called their fellowship acceptances first. Just wondering if Columbia is also doing this. The number of reported acceptances seems so low considering the large cohort size. 

[lenagator1997]

11 hours ago, koechophe said:

Hey, late-night question for anyone who sees this. I've found that, for whatever reason, this entire process of waiting for replies from Grad schools has put some weird kind of mental block on my writing. Every time I sit down to write, it feels like that very process just reminds me of the fact that I am still waiting for answers for this year. I'm confident that when I actually have closure on this (which I also think is going to be rejection), writing will be my safe place again. I know myself very well, and I know that the rejections will just spur me to write more, but this waiting period has made it really hard to focus on new writing instead of fixating on the ever-present, "Did I actually get in?" 

Like I said, I know myself well enough to know that it'll go away when I have closure, and that rejection OR acceptance will motivate me to write more. I'm sure at least someone is doubting that, but that's honestly how my mind works. What I really want to know is, has anyone else experienced something similar?

Hey,

Totally not just you. When I was in the process of applying to my MFA programs I was busy outlining, drafting and editing like crazy. But now while I'm busy hearing back from places I haven't written anything of consequence. The inspiration and motivation isn't there right now. I also know I wrote better huddled in the library at my liberal arts school than I do at home, so sometimes I go for a walk and climb a tree instead! It will all come back eventually!