MFA 2021 Freak Out Forum

[geeeeebie]

2 hours ago, SocialKonstruct said:

My experience with the SVA residency has been pretty positive but then again you have to hustle to make it in the art world. I suspect a lot of art MFA students desire to have things handed to them on a silver platter and we want fancy studios etc. etc.

I have zero interest in privilege whenever I go to my MFA program. My idea is that I should be able to make art on the run. Art while being homeless. Art while being happy. Art while in a residency (and some residencies are even more barebones than a cubicle)... Art while being in an airplane.

I think often we are used to having an art education based on the fact that we are afforded the tools given by professors. One has to hustle to make the connections, to take the initative to meet up with professors (they will not come over to you), to be an occasional enterprising soul out there.

This is the stark reality I am facing as I am working and founding a curatorial space here in Salt Lake City. I do not get any support from the local Utah community (apart from a few nods) and I have learned to help others thrive (as a curator) and still have a viable art practice with the minimal amount of funding and resources possible. Maybe I am cynical but dealing with the stark support system for the visual arts in the USA this is more commonplace than ever.

Maybe SVA seems like a pretty stark place but I have seen quite a few folks do rather well from their BFA program (my gallery represents a few graduates from there) as well as their MFA program.

I'm sorry but the cost of tuition there SHOULD get you nice studios, facilities etc and more than the ability to make art while homeless. I mean, really. Thats a very fantastical way to think about education, but the reality is if you're paying for school you are hoping to get useful tools and connections out of that, not just some external "hustle." School is part of that network building. If you are paying as much as you are for SVA the professors should be enthusiastic and generous. 

[geeeeebie]

4 hours ago, lizavetar96 said:

i am also very interested to hear about parsons

I unfortunately dont know much about parsons. Anyone else? 

 

In regards to NYC I've heard most great things about state/city schools 

[SocialKonstruct]

1 minute ago, geeeeebie said:

I'm sorry but the cost of tuition there SHOULD get you nice studios, facilities etc and more than the ability to make art while homeless. I mean, really. Thats a very fantastical way to think about education, but the reality is if you're paying for school you are hoping to get useful tools and connections out of that, not just some external "hustle." School is part of that network building. If you are paying as much as you are for SVA the professors should be enthusiastic and generous. 

I would rather that my tuition go towards making that the facility is top notch rather than having amenities tbh. Not much use having endless free coffee if I am not making the proper connections into the art world.

[geeeeebie]

Just now, SocialKonstruct said:

I would rather that my tuition go towards making that the facility is top notch rather than having amenities tbh. Not much use having endless free coffee if I am not making the proper connections into the art world.

Who said coffee? Who said amenities? You're not making proper connections if your professors dont care about you. 

[SocialKonstruct]

Just now, geeeeebie said:

Who said coffee? Who said amenities? You're not making proper connections if your professors dont care about you. 

I agree with that but it has to be a two way street as well. Students have a responsibilities to keep in touch with professors and vice versa. Granted there are some programs where that was an issue (stares at Columbia from a few years ago) due to professors focusing on art careers.

But it's a trade-off. Star faculty doesn't mean that the experience would be worth it. But in the art world, more often than not the name of the institution does count for something. Your general art gallerist isn't a curator or art critic. They are going to see where you went to and say wow. It's a business foremost. And I have seen that way too often in the contemporary art world where gallerists are rarely involved in art critical theory.

[lizavetar96]

9 minutes ago, geeeeebie said:

I'm sorry but the cost of tuition there SHOULD get you nice studios, facilities etc and more than the ability to make art while homeless. I mean, really. Thats a very fantastical way to think about education, but the reality is if you're paying for school you are hoping to get useful tools and connections out of that, not just some external "hustle." School is part of that network building. If you are paying as much as you are for SVA the professors should be enthusiastic and generous. 

+100000000000

[katfude]

9 minutes ago, SocialKonstruct said:

I agree with that but it has to be a two way street as well. Students have a responsibilities to keep in touch with professors and vice versa. Granted there are some programs where that was an issue (stares at Columbia from a few years ago) due to professors focusing on art careers.

But it's a trade-off. Star faculty doesn't mean that the experience would be worth it. But in the art world, more often than not the name of the institution does count for something. Your general art gallerist isn't a curator or art critic. They are going to see where you went to and say wow. It's a business foremost. And I have seen that way too often in the contemporary art world where gallerists are rarely involved in art critical theory.

Can we just let everyone on this forum shoot their shot despite what school they are going to. Everyone here has a different story with a different background and different schools fit different people for a million reasons. We get it that you are a curator at a gallery that you run who only looks at where people go to school-- but you are not indicative of the entire art world and we are all just trying to get where we are going. Just please, let everyone have a chance at finding what ever level of success they are happy with no matter what MFA program they do or do not end up in. Not everyone here is trying to become a billionaire business person disguised as an artist. Can we just calm the ego talk down a few notches and let it all go. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by katfude

[Killerdonuts]

4 hours ago, lizavetar96 said:

i am also very interested to hear about parsons

I used to work as a program coordinator at The New School - the university which Parson is within. (I worked at the Liberal Arts college. The New School is a private non-profit university. However, similar to SVA, they depend on a lot of international students from wealthy familues (mostly from China) to attend and pay full price. The number of students they have that are eligible for Pell Grants (undergrad) is very low. They also are having a LOT of internal issues right now related to lay offs of lower paid administrative staff (I was one of them) while the president and senior leadership took only minimal pay cuts during the pandemic. 

I can't speak for Parson specific stuff, but the university as a whole has some major structural problems. There were many student, faculty, and staff protests this past year.

I will say that the faculty (at least the faculty I worked with at the other college) are overall good people. And the staff are great. They have a great art collection! (I had a Louise Bourgeois drawing hanging in my office, and I was a lower level administrator.)

They also just established an Office of Equity and Social Justice, though they often talk more than they act. And their disability advocacy is nearly none existent, accept for some very hard working staff who make things happen without resources and support from above.

I did meet some fantastic fellow staff there though! And the location of the campus is right near Union square and The Village.

 

[SocialKonstruct]

33 minutes ago, Killerdonuts said:

I used to work as a program coordinator at The New School - the university which Parson is within. (I worked at the Liberal Arts college. The New School is a private non-profit university. However, similar to SVA, they depend on a lot of international students from wealthy familues (mostly from China) to attend and pay full price. The number of students they have that are eligible for Pell Grants (undergrad) is very low. They also are having a LOT of internal issues right now related to lay offs of lower paid administrative staff (I was one of them) while the president and senior leadership took only minimal pay cuts during the pandemic. 

I can't speak for Parson specific stuff, but the university as a whole has some major structural problems. There were many student, faculty, and staff protests this past year.

I will say that the faculty (at least the faculty I worked with at the other college) are overall good people. And the staff are great. They have a great art collection! (I had a Louise Bourgeois drawing hanging in my office, and I was a lower level administrator.)

They also just established an Office of Equity and Social Justice, though they often talk more than they act. And their disability advocacy is nearly none existent, accept for some very hard working staff who make things happen without resources and support from above.

I did meet some fantastic fellow staff there though! And the location of the campus is right near Union square and The Village.

 

I heard that NYU Steinhardt is pretty different from Parsons... I would love to hear about Pratt (we have a few folks from the U of U there atm).

[PlzTakeME]

has anyone been accepted after a not so good interview?

[yesterday100]

Has anyone heard from Berkeley post interview?

[Hphphphp]

45 minutes ago, PlzTakeME said:

has anyone been accepted after a not so good interview?

I got accepted into CalArts during my senior year in college and I had a sort of mehh interview... they were very embarrassed because they made a terrible racist faux de pas at the beginning of it. 

[TokenToken]

2 hours ago, PlzTakeME said:

has anyone been accepted after a not so good interview?

Yes. My interview for Yale was very awkward, and I was pretty certain I’d sabotaged my case...I had technological issues (and was really nervous and shy). A kind faculty member talked me through fixing a screen share situation for 12 of the 40 minutes, as the other six participants patiently watched. I mumbled through the rest of it, had time to talk about only 1/5 works I’d prepared, and managed to ask them a question they didn’t really understand or know the answer to...I honestly can’t even remember the question. I guess sometimes it’s not about being eloquent and verbose, maybe they just want to see how you are under pressure...and they had their ideas about my work prior to the interview.

 

[dramallama_07]

If anyone here has interviewed with Yale painting, could you tell me who all were in the interview?

[art_star]

8 hours ago, katfude said:

Can we just let everyone on this forum shoot their shot despite what school they are going to. Everyone here has a different story with a different background and different schools fit different people for a million reasons. We get it that you are a curator at a gallery that you run who only looks at where people go to school-- but you are not indicative of the entire art world and we are all just trying to get where we are going. Just please, let everyone have a chance at finding what ever level of success they are happy with no matter what MFA program they do or do not end up in. Not everyone here is trying to become a billionaire business person disguised as an artist. Can we just calm the ego talk down a few notches and let it all go. 

Hallelujah. Also, cannot believe the audacity and rudeness of someone speculating unasked as to why a specific person did not get into a specific program as if he has omnipotent insight into the minds of the prestigious faculty and overarching art world at large. And then to mansplain to a feminist artist why her brand of feminist art is unfashionable? I wouldn't want someone like this in a cohort with me. Please take several seats indeed.

[theundoing]

10 hours ago, katfude said:

Can we just let everyone on this forum shoot their shot despite what school they are going to. Everyone here has a different story with a different background and different schools fit different people for a million reasons. We get it that you are a curator at a gallery that you run who only looks at where people go to school-- but you are not indicative of the entire art world and we are all just trying to get where we are going. Just please, let everyone have a chance at finding what ever level of success they are happy with no matter what MFA program they do or do not end up in. Not everyone here is trying to become a billionaire business person disguised as an artist. Can we just calm the ego talk down a few notches and let it all go. 

I agree and I do think it is beneficial to consider that if you go to a pricey school you unfortunately may want to think about these gross aspects of the "art world." Unless you come from money and don't need to take on debt. Even if you want to teach unfortunately to break into teaching you have to depend on who your faculty know and who they can connect you to. It is a deeply nepotistic field across all aspects. I wouldn't want to force that viewpoint onto a prospective student but it is useful to consider if you are thinking about a near 100k tuition program. Sometimes people don't consider these things and then they end up extremely depressed and with tons of debt. I just say this because this conversation came out of questions about SVA ...which is known by people I know in NYC as being a school for people with wealth. Personally, I find hyperfixation on the art world and blue chip galleries and fame etc to be extremely demoralizing but that's why I didn't apply to a school like Columbia or RISD. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by theundoing

[nowaytosay]

18 hours ago, SocialKonstruct said:

As a small insight, I noticed that SVA MFA cohorts are with a huge fraction of Asian students (not Asian-Americans) which suggests that China and the East have a strong economic power. I suspect (no clue) that many of them have no issue paying for their SVA MFA programs without any scholarships or funding (or probably minimal).

Also as future artists we cannot ignore the power of the Chinese art market. Despite their human rights violations and cultural issues, many of the young hot collectors are hungering for all types of Western art styles and tbh, I feel strongly that working an art practice that accomodates their interests and tastes ought to be a good factor for contemporary works.

so basically china is this horrible country with human rights violations and critical issues

and despite that we need to get the $$$ from their market. hmm

do i also sense of some pride and classism from western art styles?

[nowaytosay]

16 hours ago, lizavetar96 said:

Please do not get me wrong - I feel like I am sounding like a raging racist here - I think inclusion should be at the forefront of the MFA programs both at the cohort side and at the faculty (it is horrible to see that for example none of the program I applied to have no black faculty at_all, I have noticed only one Asian professor and USC has been the only school with Latinx faculty) - but my conjecture is (and I will be glad to be proven wrong) is that SVA might be accepting a lot of Asian students from high-economic backgrounds, so yes, we are getting cultural diversity but at the same time are getting very upper-class cohort coming from very wealthy families, which is_not_what_inclusion_is_about, at least for me. 

yes you are a bit

china has a different cultural climate where the parents would usually work very hard to save up for their kids education.

they really believe through good education would change their social class (lots of stories of extremely struggling parents still work extra shifts to send their kids to after school math camps etc) it is a good investment for those art students who came to states then return and utilize their studies and experiences. anyway just saying you should maybe go to open studio/meet these asian students before quickly assuming they are just from high-economic backgrounds.

[JellyRoll]

It’s been fun to watch so many artists receive good news, and humbling to find myself among those who didn’t. Could I ask a favor on behalf of those of us who will be trying again next year? If you have any insights about getting into particular programs (as opposed to general advice—this forum has been good about that already), please consider sharing it. We can use all the help we can get. Congratulations to all of you who will be starting your MFA adventures in the fall!

[rmwphoto]

On 3/6/2021 at 5:51 AM, wambam said:

Anybody else that’s waitlisted... how are you feeling about it? What are the chances?  When I look back at past forums it seems like people definitely get in later, but for top programs like Yale and RISD, does it happen? 

Can't speak for top programs but I'm waitlisted for GSU and tbh trying not to hold my breath. It's a program I'd really love but they're only accepting two students in my area. They have said they're trying to get more funding and they can move people off the wait-list as late as summer, which is mind boggling to me! 

[SocialKonstruct]

58 minutes ago, nowaytosay said:

so basically china is this horrible country with human rights violations and critical issues

and despite that we need to get the $$$ from their market. hmm

do i also sense of some pride and classism from western art styles?

China isn't completely horrid but it is a country fraught with many issues, particularly with internet censorship and detention camps- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071. That's the huge issue with late stage capitalism throughout the world. It's pretty much the parallel issues as in the United States (stares at the immigrant detainee camps).

I have no pride in Western culture ? and to be honest, I don't believe in patriotism at all. And yes, the economic system here has no qualms earning money form the Chinese market in order to thrive.

To keep on topic however, Chinese contemporary art is pretty much growing and there is a large number of talented folks from there. One of my favorite photographers lately has been- https://www.artnews.com/art-in-america/features/chinese-photographer-ronghui-chen-displacement-1202691136/ who has been documenting the polarities within Chinese society atm.

 

[SocialKonstruct]

1 hour ago, nowaytosay said:

yes you are a bit

china has a different cultural climate where the parents would usually work very hard to save up for their kids education.

they really believe through good education would change their social class (lots of stories of extremely struggling parents still work extra shifts to send their kids to after school math camps etc) it is a good investment for those art students who came to states then return and utilize their studies and experiences. anyway just saying you should maybe go to open studio/meet these asian students before quickly assuming they are just from high-economic backgrounds.

I would like some actual stats. What is the economic status of the families whose children attend top notch art MFA programs in the United States? I couldn't find anything on this topic.

[SocialKonstruct]

14 hours ago, MMW said:

I agree with you and the statistic. I came from China and was an international student in the US. China is similar to the US, which has an even larger gap between the poor and the rich. Art education is a privilege to a small number of people in China. As individuals, we all have the right to pursue the education and the life we want. The point I was suggesting is when already being seen as money bags to the institution, I don't see the good of transferring the negative aspect/inequality(the pay-to-play) in the US Institution to Asian students? I believe friends in this forum have no meaning to be harmful!  It is just a bit dangerous to think like "certain background equal something" I wish to be part of a diverse cohort like everyone else here. Critical thinking and an inclusive environment are the reasons why many international students wish to be studying in the US. 

I don't know whether pay-to-play is necessarily the case all the time here. Having taken multiple classes at SVA since last summer, I found the classes (of which I plan to take a lot more) here to be very insightful and utterly helpful. Apart from a few courses at the University of Utah art department, I found the challenges and critical help through SVA as well as the networking to be invaluable within my own art practice.

Plus I don't have really any Utah art friends here except maybe two or three and all of my RL friends in the art world were made through SVA. Here is an example of our networking- https://ifounducollective.com/

[nowaytosay]

12 minutes ago, SocialKonstruct said:

I would like some actual stats. What is the economic status of the families whose children attend top notch art MFA programs in the United States? I couldn't find anything on this topic.

maybe because you are searching in english : )

[SocialKonstruct]

14 minutes ago, nowaytosay said:

maybe because you are searching in english : )

Yeah, sorry I don't know Chinese very well. I do speak a lot more French! ? LoL :). I'm also trying to learn Arabic