2022 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[Nightwitch]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:12 PM, panglosian said:

Just finished all of my applications early, and I would love to get some conversation going in this forum! I'm a second-time applicant who recently changed my genre, and I already have one deferred offer for the 2022 season. Feeling much better about this time around, commiserations are open and encouraged. 

So cool! I'm almost done with all of mine, just one left.

[oubukibun]

The concept of grad school, such as it is, is so profoundly absurd that part of me isn't convinced I'm not doing this a second time out of devotion to my own Sisyphean desire and not because I genuinely want or believe there is a needle that'll prick me somewhere in this haystack.

We want you, they say, but we want you in 500 words, in 1,500 words, in 1,000 words or less.  Can you handle that?  Can you compress an entire lifetime's worth of thoughts, nightmares, anxieties, oppressions, and creative flows into boxy paragraphs that resist, if only vaguely, the temptation to suck on the teat of the people reading them?  What then is the purpose of asking "Is this any good?" if the statement of porpoise is just another meaningless and meandering hallmark of dressing for success or a callback to all those times the teachers never called on us because they knew we had the answer or were tired of the expected "Pick me, pick me, oh me!"

I've submitted all of my apps, all eight of them: UCSD, Fairbanks, New Orleans, WashU, McNeese (whose application is hands down my least favorite; they even wanted me to send them a transcript of the one substitute teaching course I took at a community college, so go them for thoroughness!), Rutgers, U of Washington, and Hollins.  All over the place, just like my poems.  I can't even pretend anymore.  I sent my poems to my poetry professor from college for his thoughts, and we were both essentially on the same page...

What does it mean, to be 'ready' for grad apps?  Your portfolio is an organism, it breathes every time you breathe, it dissents every time you dissent.  I have never encountered perfection nor do I believe it can be found on any subjective plane (and I don't know how one would ever analyze it on purely objective terms without destroying it, crazy talk!), so my apps talk about how my writing isn't, you know, everything and the loaf of bread too.  Is it a mistake?  Frankly, I just don't give a damn.  I want to write, I want to spend two years finally cracking the shell open and discovering whether or not I have any stake in the writing game.

Isn't the conundrum also so deliciously and grotesquely paradoxical?  If you finetune your portfolio till the very last moment, who's to say the comma you removed is the nadir of your prospects for 10% of your apps, or 20%, or even 5%?  What if the two paragraphs of experimental exposition landed you a place at your dream school, but only as a waitlister?  You should've kept the story more abstract, simpleton!  Perhaps you should've swapped that creative nonfiction piece on the trash collector you observed in Serbia with the one about the children playing in their neighborhood the instant the levees failed in New Orleans in 2005?

Or...  or...  or...

All I can do is write.  And be truthful.  And squeeze all of that into whatever word or page limit these institutions ask of us.  If no school, quite literally no school, decides that's enough, how will I ever know it was the writing, and not just the beautiful simplicity of random luck?  Or both?  Or neither?  Maybe no one bothered with the words, they just didn't bother at all.

See?  It's absurd what we human animals do.  But I wager it's downright surreal that we do it anyway.

It must be the boulder talking.

 

Best to all of you.  And best of all...  at some point, everything is over.

Thank you, Time.

 

Cheers! 

Edited November 26, 2021 by oubukibun

[Nightwitch]

54 minutes ago, oubukibun said:

The concept of grad school, such as it is, is so profoundly absurd that part of me isn't convinced I'm not doing this a second time out of devotion to my own Sisyphean desire and not because I genuinely want or believe there is a needle that'll prick me somewhere in this haystack.

We want you, they say, but we want you in 500 words, in 1,500 words, in 1,000 words or less.  Can you handle that?  Can you compress an entire lifetime's worth of thoughts, nightmares, anxieties, oppressions, and creative flows into boxy paragraphs that resist, if only vaguely, the temptation to suck on the teat of the people reading them?  What then is the purpose of asking "Is this any good?" if the statement of porpoise is just another meaningless and meandering hallmark of dressing for success or a callback to all those times the teachers never called on us because they knew we had the answer or were tired of the expected "Pick me, pick me, oh me!"

I've submitted all of my apps, all eight of them: UCSD, Fairbanks, New Orleans, WashU, McNeese (whose application is hands down my least favorite; they even wanted me to send them a transcript of the one substitute teaching course I took at a community college, so go them for thoroughness!), Rutgers, U of Washington, and Hollins.  All over the place, just like my poems.  I can't even pretend anymore.  I sent my poems to my poetry professor from college for his thoughts, and we were both essentially on the same page...

What does it mean, to be 'ready' for grad apps?  Your portfolio is an organism, it breathes every time you breathe, it dissents every time you dissent.  I have never encountered perfection nor do I believe it can be found on any subjective plane (and I don't know how one would ever analyze it on purely objective terms without destroying it, crazy talk!), so my apps talk about how my writing isn't, you know, everything and the loaf of bread too.  Is it a mistake?  Frankly, I just don't give a damn.  I want to write, I want to spend two years finally cracking the shell open and discovering whether or not I have any stake in the writing game.

Isn't the conundrum also so deliciously and grotesquely paradoxical?  If you finetune your portfolio till the very last moment, who's to say the comma you removed is the nadir of your prospects for 10% of your apps, or 20%, or even 5%?  What if the two paragraphs of experimental exposition landed you a place at your dream school, but only as a waitlister?  You should've kept the story more abstract, simpleton!  Perhaps you should've swapped that creative nonfiction piece on the trash collector you observed in Serbia with the one about the children playing in their neighborhood the instant the levees failed in New Orleans in 2005?

Or...  or...  or...

All I can do is write.  And be truthful.  And squeeze all of that into whatever word or page limit these institutions ask of us.  If no school, quite literally no school, decides that's enough, how will I ever know it was the writing, and not just the beautiful simplicity of random luck?  Or both?  Or neither?  Maybe no one bothered with the words, they just didn't bother at all.

See?  It's absurd what we human animals do.  But I wager it's downright surreal that we do it anyway.

It must be the boulder talking.

 

Best to all of you.  And best of all...  at some point, everything is over.

Thank you, Time.

 

Cheers! 

Oof, this is the kind of writing that gets you into programs. I think this time will be it  the one where you get in! ❤️ Keep going!

[Nightwitch]

Hi! Sorry for the late introduction. I'm new here to gradcafe. This is my second round of applications. I'm an international student, and last year was the year I discovered the existence of the MFA - pretty late, enough to not be able to write the TOEFL and leave a couple of applications unsubmitted because they were incomplete without it. This year though, I'm done with them, except one which needs a transcript mailed ? 

It's nice to meet everyone here, and to know that applying a second time is normal. I wish I had found this community before, everyone seems so nice! All the best to you peeps wherever you are in your writing journey 

[Nightwitch]

On 11/6/2021 at 2:29 AM, Rm714 said:

Anyone know how the "process of elimination" works at most schools? I read in Draft that one university (name wasn't mentioned) has five readers, each are given the same number of writing samples to review, they all selected their top 10 from that pool, and they narrowed it down from there. 

That meant some people were getting rejected without any other part of their application (SOP, any other written materials) even being reviewed. Is this common? I know people say the sample is the most important part, which of course it is. But I wanted to know if this is the general practice.

I think I saw a Youtube video by faculty members of the U of H which implied almost the same thing...so I guess it might be more common than we think?

[1moreX]

Hi all -- 15 days and counting.

I was rejected by 4 top MFA fiction programs last year and am trying to be more personal and strategic in my choice of schools now.  My writing sample this year is a little more hard-edge than the killer (I thought) lyricism of last year's.

Any further insights than have already been posted into the selection process or odds, or quality of instruction or community at these schools?

• New York: Brooklyn College, Queens College, CCNY, Sarah Lawrence, Bard
• Maryland/Virginia: University of Maryland, George Mason, Johns Hopkins, University of Virginia
• Pennsylvania: University of Pittsburgh
• New Mexico: Institute of American Indian Arts (low-res)
• Indiana: Bloomington
• West coast: U Oregon, U Washington, UC Irvine

I'm particularly interested in your views on the fiction MFA at Pitt. 

Thanks much.

Edited November 27, 2021 by 1moreX

[pasteur77]

Just jumping in here for my first year of applications! I am very quickly realizing that choosing a bunch of tough schools was mayyybeee not the move. 

Applying to: 

The Michener Center @ UT Austin

University of Iowa

University of Michigan

Brown University

University of Virginia

Cornell University

Johns Hopkins University

Columbia University (I know, I know, but I'm in NYC now and I wanted one local school on the list)

University of North Carolina Wilmington

Cambridge University

Oxford University

University of East Anglia

So my real question is, do I pull a last minute panic and add a few more schools to the list? I've been looking at WashU, Alabama, Oregon, Indiana, and Syracuse as well. 

 

[koechophe]

Heya, I'm back for year two baby! (Let's pretend I'm excited about doing this Hell of an application process again, and maybe I'll even convince myself!)

I see some familiar faces from last year. @Ydrl @cecsav Hi again!

I am at a crossroads on my writing sample, and would love some advice that, all cards on the table, I may end up ignoring.

The piece I personally feel strongest about is a deep psychological speculative fiction short story. But there's this small part of me (which has steadily been growing larger) that worries people will take one look at the obvious sci-fi elements and be like "NOPE, not literary."

I have another piece that I'm not as confident on because it's one I wrote very recently, haven't had time to really make it pretty, and I'm not sure I can get it where i want it by the time my applications are due... but it's straight literary fiction. I feel like it ticks a few more boxes because it's about someone who's asexual trying to cope with a cis relationship, and I know that #ownvoices material is a big thing right now.

But then there's this third part of me that's like, "I really like exploring magical realism / speculative fiction" so maybe I should go with the piece that is closer to what I want to do?

But then again, I REALLY want to get in, so...

These are the things bouncing around in my head. I've had a hard time understanding how big of a "no-no" it is to use pieces that are more genre-y in setting (not in actual composition). I know that varies with each school, but only two of the 10 schools I'm applying to actually addressed it. One said they tend to prefer literary because it tends to be better written, one said they encourage cross-genre experimentation and using genre elements (definitely sending in my speculative one to them).

Anyone actually know any more about this? 

Thanks!

[xenawins]

@koechophe I feel like I could have written this exact post! It's what I have struggled with for a long time and what has honestly kept me from applying for MFA programs before. My only thoughts are this... I'm already writing, will continue to do so whether or not I get into a MFA program, and my intention for a MFA is to get teaching experience, have a community/focus on creative living, support other creatives, and to round out my vision for what I want to do beyond the degree. As a result, I'm putting my passion forward and using a spec fic writing piece. This consideration was also a big part of my research into what programs might be a good fit. I have a few "top" schools on my list, but only if there was some evidence they would consider/have some kind of track record of working with spec fic type lit work. Because although I WANT to get in... getting into the wrong program or trying to assimilate to what the literary conventions are in the present is counter to my passion for dancing in the dimension of "but what if...?" Ultimately, it would make me unhappy, possibly damage/derail/distract me from my sense of writing purpose/passion, and I don't think I would get as much out of the experience. Maybe this decision means I will absolutely be tossed in the shyte pile -- however, as with the acceptance rate for hell, I would be in very good (and maybe much more fun/dangerous/interesting) company. I hope you'll let me know how it goes for you and what you decide!  I think any choice you make is the right one for you at this moment in time. AND, as with anything, you get to change your mind if you need to later! 

[Yellow62]

Michener's deadline is tonight and I'm over here working on major structural revisions for a poem I'm going to include in my writing sample. Anyone else on their last-second editing grind?!

[DeepSyntax]

On 11/30/2021 at 5:39 PM, koechophe said:

Heya, I'm back for year two baby! (Let's pretend I'm excited about doing this Hell of an application process again, and maybe I'll even convince myself!)

I see some familiar faces from last year. @Ydrl @cecsav Hi again!

I am at a crossroads on my writing sample, and would love some advice that, all cards on the table, I may end up ignoring.

The piece I personally feel strongest about is a deep psychological speculative fiction short story. But there's this small part of me (which has steadily been growing larger) that worries people will take one look at the obvious sci-fi elements and be like "NOPE, not literary."

I have another piece that I'm not as confident on because it's one I wrote very recently, haven't had time to really make it pretty, and I'm not sure I can get it where i want it by the time my applications are due... but it's straight literary fiction. I feel like it ticks a few more boxes because it's about someone who's asexual trying to cope with a cis relationship, and I know that #ownvoices material is a big thing right now.

But then there's this third part of me that's like, "I really like exploring magical realism / speculative fiction" so maybe I should go with the piece that is closer to what I want to do?

But then again, I REALLY want to get in, so...

These are the things bouncing around in my head. I've had a hard time understanding how big of a "no-no" it is to use pieces that are more genre-y in setting (not in actual composition). I know that varies with each school, but only two of the 10 schools I'm applying to actually addressed it. One said they tend to prefer literary because it tends to be better written, one said they encourage cross-genre experimentation and using genre elements (definitely sending in my speculative one to them).

Anyone actually know any more about this? 

Thanks!

Hello, another year two here! I think you choose what is better written, period. The sci-fi elements should not be an impediment if the writing is as strong as "literary" fiction. If that is your very best, most developed material, use it. It's really impossible to predict who responds to what, so you cannot reverse engineer a writing sample based on what you think will improve your chances.

[littleblackneko]

Hi all! This is my first serious round of applying to grad school and I am also having that last minute panic that I am not applying enough places. Right now I've got 5 apps submitted (Oregon State, Ohio State, UMN Twin Cities, university of Illinois, and uc riverside) and I'm debating on applying to Brown, NCSU, Uw Seattle, and U Pittsburgh. If anyone has advice for a rookie, please let me know! I really want this. 

[koechophe]

7 hours ago, littleblackneko said:

I am also having that last minute panic that I am not applying enough places.

More places will increase your odds that someone will like your stuff and say yes, but the money cost can't be ignored. If you can get fee waivers, there's no point in not trying. Otherwise, you've got to balance how much money you can spend, and are willing to spend, with how many schools you apply for.

I know that's not super helpful, but it's really hard to know. Some people get 100% rejections when they apply to 15 schools, some people get 60% acceptance when they only apply to 5. 

If you can afford it, applying to more won't hurt. And it may end up preventing that feeling of "maybe if I'd applied to more schools, I would've gotten into one of them" later on. But if none of them accept you, it might end up feeling like a bigger waste of money.

I applied for 8 schools last cycle, am doing 10 this time. Last cycle was pure rejections, but I don't regret applying for so many. I saved up for it, and putting myself out there felt worth the cost. But that was me, you do what's best for you. 

[panglosian]

Hi Everyone!

It's so good to see some returning faces, and good luck to everyone in their pursuits this year. I think it would be wise, as someone who did this all before, to offer some things that I didn't realize when I was first applying, and questions I wish I had asked myself before pulling the trigger on some of my applications in 2021. I'm hoping this information can help some people here who are going in on their first round (you are incredibly brave and valued) feel a little better about the situation.

(To preface, I applied last year in fiction and received one partially funded offer. I decided to defer and reapply in poetry, my true love, so a lot of this is from both perspectives.)

1. Realistically, a lot of people get passed up on their first round, and it will not be the end of the world. I cried for two weeks after my last rejection despite my single offer, because it felt like the world was ending. It won't, I absolutely promise! 

2. A lot of people applying in fiction will be seeing an influx of poets celebrating their wins and feel sad. The fact is (and I didn't realize this at all) is that fiction gets double or even closer to triple the applications that poetry does, and far, far more than CNF. Keep reminding yourself that you are applying in different pools, and do not compare based on that. You have just a good a chance as anyone!

3. Speaking of which, this year we are still coming off what I call the "pandemic surge" - an influx of people deciding, during a time of incredible economic collapse, that "Hey! Free money to write and a degree sounds awesome!" It won't be easier than last year because we're 365 days removed. You'll still be fighting for your life out there.

4. If you don't know what you want the MFA for, or why you are choosing the schools you are, I would reconsider your decision before you start sending things out. Last year I wanted to just be in the most prestigious program, and to get qualified to be a professor. That, my friends, is not nearly enough. They will know.

5. Do not undervalue your writing. If you get partial funding and the school offers deferrals for funding reconsideration, do it. If you need to reapply like I did despite an offer, do it. Do NOT settle because you don't think you can stand to go another round.

6. Don't be afraid to email programs throughout this process. Don't go crazy, because they are doing their best, but adcoms aren't known for their expeditious responses. Some schools will even wait for you to get your rejection in the mail. Just tell them to tell you shit straight and eventually they will.

7. HAVE A BACKUP PLAN. I didn't and it sent me into a spiral. Now I am employed, have time for writing, and have developed a great support system. Grad school shouldn't be the be all end all.

8. In the same vein, find things to do while you wait. Don't linger too long here or in Draft, you'll just make yourself nuts. Let go and let be. Learn pottery. Knit. Secure that holiday bonus.

9. Consider this a learning opportunity. Do whatever you can, because you will be smarter for it, even if you don't go a second round. As writers, we're waiting long periods of time to be judged as a crux of our career. Learn to navigate it now.

And finally:

10. YOUR WRITING IS GOOD. IT HAS VALUE. ALWAYS.

I hope this helps someone who is feeling nervous and needs a (realistic and encouraging) pep talk! 

[pasteur77]

@panglosianThanks for this. It was really helpful. As someone in their first round, it can be easy to get caught up in the bigness of it all. 

[koechophe]

Just put in my first few applications! I'm a lot happier with my application package this cycle. Feel more confident on the writing sample and the personal statement. 

[panglosian]

On 12/6/2021 at 12:22 PM, msnyc said:

@panglosianThanks for this. It was really helpful. As someone in their first round, it can be easy to get caught up in the bigness of it all. 

of course! if you are curious about anything let me know

[pasteur77]

Alright, who else is furiously trying to get through their last apps right now? All of the random supplemental materials are killing me. 

[Rm714]

2 hours ago, msnyc said:

Alright, who else is furiously trying to get through their last apps right now? All of the random supplemental materials are killing me. 

Sigh, yes! I still need to heavily edit my critical sample and write a 1,000-word literary criticism. Thankfully most of my deadlines aren't until early-mid January but that's still rapidly approaching..

Edited December 9, 2021 by Rm714
(Edit: clarity)

[pasteur77]

I've done so many personal statements that I don't think I can read anymore

[maybenot14]

Hey everyone! I submitted my app this past Wednesday, only applying to one place. Anyone here applying to The University of Miami (Fl)? Or have experience applying there? Would love to know what the timeline looks like for this school. Props to all of you applying to multiple spots. My lone application had me ripping my own hair out, so I can only imagine what y'all may be experiencing. Best of luck to everyone!

[koechophe]

Finally pushed "send" on my last application. Such a difference from last year, when I was scrambling to get them all out by their deadlines. I submitted most of mine this cycle more than a month before they were due. I guess that's what happens when you're not a full-time student taking more credits than you need to while also holding down a job and dating someone, and then a month before graduate schools want applications, you think, "Hey, I'm going to apply for grad school!" 

But anyway, I expected I'd feel better now that all the apps are in. Instead, I think I might feel worse lol. My brain just instantly clicked into this "have I done enough?" mode. Ah, well, I made it through last cycle with my sanity, likely will this time too ?

[koechophe]

Finally pushed "send" on my last application. Such a difference from last year, when I was scrambling to get them all out by their deadlines. I submitted most of mine this cycle more than a month before they were due. I guess that's what happens when you're not a full-time student taking more credits than you need to while also holding down a job and dating someone, and then a month before graduate schools want applications, you think, "Hey, I'm going to apply for grad school!" 

But anyway, I expected I'd feel better now that all the apps are in. Instead, I think I might feel worse lol. My brain just instantly clicked into this "have I done enough?" mode. Ah, well, I made it through last cycle with my sanity, likely will this time too ?

On 12/17/2021 at 8:32 AM, maybenot14 said:

Props to all of you applying to multiple spots. My lone application had me ripping my own hair out, so I can only imagine what y'all may be experiencing. Best of luck to everyone!

Somewhere around the fourth or fifth application, you get this sort of numb feeling as you push that submit button. 

Also, trust me, I'd be panicking MUCH more if there was only one school I had the chances to get into. Having 10 on my list is a huge comfort, since I have 10 chances to get into a fully-funded program (Okay, well, BSU's 10k stipend borders on not being funded, but hey, they pay tuition). 

 

[Meso]

@koechophe, which schools you applying to? Where did you apply last year? Didn't you get into Columbia? 

@mrvisser and @Ydrl, someone just made a bunch of posts on Draft about housing in Iowa City. They give good news for both of you. Rent is real cheap there. Would you like me to copy and paste the posts? It says you save big money if you have a roommate instead of a one bedroom, which is perfect since you two want to be roommates.  

Edited December 22, 2021 by Meso

[koechophe]

11 hours ago, Meso said:

which schools you applying to? Where did you apply last year? Didn't you get into Columbia? 

Nope, I didn't even apply to Columbia. 

My last year list was:

University of Utah

University of Houston

Oklahoma State

University of Las Vegas, Nevada

University of Lincoln Nebraska

Florida State  University

University of Southern California 

Washington State University

This year, my list is:

University of Maryland
John Hopkins University 
Brown University
University of Michigan
Virginia Tech
Boise State University 
Arizona State  
University of Wisconsin - Madison
University of Florida
University of Idaho