The 'Am I competitive' thread - READ ME BEFORE POSTING

[jhpigott]

New to the forum. Brief bio - Graduated from Univ. FL w/ BA in Business Admin (3.6 GPA, w/ honors) and from Univ. FL Law School w/ JD (3.1 GPA, which was top 25% of class).

Have been practicing law for 8 years, 4 with a medium sized firm and 4 out on my own. Wide range of civil law practice (no crim law practice).

Never took the GRE. But did very well on the LSAT and the FL Bar exam. Because of my JD, I have been told by the different graduate admissions offices that a GRE is not required.

3 years of HS Spanish and 1 year college level Spanish.

Have always had a strong interest in international security related studies. Contribute to a number of security related blogs. No military experience. Did have a conditional offer of employment with DIA right out of law school but turned it down due to relocation and family issues (still kicking myself for that one).

No LORs from professors as I have lost touch with them being out of school as long as I have. However, all LORs from professionals with security related work experience.

Strong writing sample regarding DPRK provocations in the Yellow Sea.

Based upon my review of these kinds of forums, I realize I am not your "typical" applicant. I have applied to SFS (SSP), ESIA (SPS) and SIS (US Foreign Policy).

Very anxiously awaiting admissions responses from these programs.

[fenderpete]

isamup - Afraid I can't help you on the safety schools front as I don't really know anything about MURP. But otherwise your stats look good.

XOAN - You may be leaving it a bit late if you're applying for Fall 2012 to get GRE scores in.

jhpigott - You look pretty solid to me in terms of work experience and profile to me. I don't necessarily think it's about fitting the mould for security studies programs (this is just my opinion). I'd far rather have someone who can bring a unique point of view to the subject and sounds like you can do that. That being said, bear in mind I may be completely wrong

[jhpigott]

fenderpete - Thank you for the feedback. The more I research what qualifies as a "strong profile" for security studies programs at the top-tier schools the more I tend to agree with your assessment. There doesn't seem to be any one particular profile they go after. In other words - it's a crapshoot

[Xoan]

fenderpete, thank you for the answer, I will be applying for Fall 2013 so I still have some time.

[JAubrey]

New to the forum. Brief bio - Graduated from Univ. FL w/ BA in Business Admin (3.6 GPA, w/ honors) and from Univ. FL Law School w/ JD (3.1 GPA, which was top 25% of class).

Have been practicing law for 8 years, 4 with a medium sized firm and 4 out on my own. Wide range of civil law practice (no crim law practice).

Never took the GRE. But did very well on the LSAT and the FL Bar exam. Because of my JD, I have been told by the different graduate admissions offices that a GRE is not required.

3 years of HS Spanish and 1 year college level Spanish.

Have always had a strong interest in international security related studies. Contribute to a number of security related blogs. No military experience. Did have a conditional offer of employment with DIA right out of law school but turned it down due to relocation and family issues (still kicking myself for that one).

No LORs from professors as I have lost touch with them being out of school as long as I have. However, all LORs from professionals with security related work experience.

Strong writing sample regarding DPRK provocations in the Yellow Sea.

Based upon my review of these kinds of forums, I realize I am not your "typical" applicant. I have applied to SFS (SSP), ESIA (SPS) and SIS (US Foreign Policy).

Very anxiously awaiting admissions responses from these programs.

First, you should be fine at American SIS, GW and SSP will be more of stretches and will want to see proof that this just isn't a random change in direction. Also, they will want to see you have realistic post master's goals... and given that you will be 35 by the time you graduate...what is your plan? Will you really want to take a $52k a year GS-09 job?

[jhpigott]

First, you should be fine at American SIS, GW and SSP will be more of stretches and will want to see proof that this just isn't a random change in direction. Also, they will want to see you have realistic post master's goals... and given that you will be 35 by the time you graduate...what is your plan? Will you really want to take a $52k a year GS-09 job?

After researching the job placement reports of those schools, I'm a little more optimistic about job prospects/salary. That being said, I don't expect to get rich either. I realize my age and career change may count against me, but I can only hope my SOP, writing sample and prior pursuit of employment within the intelligence community would evidence that this move is not random or some passing fancy.

[Hodor]

Hi all, applying for MPP w/ a focus on policy analysis in 2013. I'm curious as to whether a circuitous academic history will affect my chances, and what if any second tier programs are available.

I have a somewhat muddled and longwinding undergrad career with a 2.5 GPA through most of it, but finished the last 45 credit hours or so with a 3.9. I have about 20 credit hours of a master's in IR with a 3.6, but I'm probably not going to finish b/c I found the school (an online program of a state school) incredibly unhelpful.

I can speak Mandarin and Spanish and will have taken proficiency exams in both before applying later this year. I currently work for a state owned enterprise in the shipping industry in China, and will have also lived in Korea (my Korean is borderline conversational but nothing special). I also volunteer teaching migrant children in China as well.

My GRE was strong 710 V 800 Q 4.5 writing, but I'm wondering if the new scale will take my Q score down a few percentile points? My dream schools are Princeton and/or UC Berkeley, but I'm trying to round up "second best" schools, and have come up with Indiana, UT-Austin, and maybe Michigan? Are my backups feasible or should I cast a wider net? Thanks for any advice.

[Azrou]

Hi all, applying for MPP w/ a focus on policy analysis in 2013. I'm curious as to whether a circuitous academic history will affect my chances, and what if any second tier programs are available.

I have a somewhat muddled and longwinding undergrad career with a 2.5 GPA through most of it, but finished the last 45 credit hours or so with a 3.9. I have about 20 credit hours of a master's in IR with a 3.6, but I'm probably not going to finish b/c I found the school (an online program of a state school) incredibly unhelpful.

I can speak Mandarin and Spanish and will have taken proficiency exams in both before applying later this year. I currently work for a state owned enterprise in the shipping industry in China, and will have also lived in Korea (my Korean is borderline conversational but nothing special). I also volunteer teaching migrant children in China as well.

My GRE was strong 710 V 800 Q 4.5 writing, but I'm wondering if the new scale will take my Q score down a few percentile points? My dream schools are Princeton and/or UC Berkeley, but I'm trying to round up "second best" schools, and have come up with Indiana, UT-Austin, and maybe Michigan? Are my backups feasible or should I cast a wider net? Thanks for any advice.

Your international experience and language abilities are going to be a big help. I wouldn't worry too much about the undergrad GPA, your GRE scores will help show that you have "natural" ability. What may be an issue is that you started an IR grad program already and dropped out/are going to drop out (it's not really clear from the post). You will want to address that in your SoP because adcoms may question your desire and you need to convince them that if they admit you, things will be different this time.

You didn't say how long ago the previous grad program was, but if it was recent I think it may hurt your chances more. For many people shooting for the top tier of programs like Berkeley and WWS, if they don't get in they will spend the next year or two improving their application by increasing work experience, volunteering, retaking the GRE, taking courses towards a grad certificate, etc, and then reapply again, rather than accept an offer from a school they are not really interested in attending. So when the adcoms see your application they could wonder why you bothered with the state school. I think it will be important that you get very strong letters of recommendation, preferably from former instructors, that will attest to your dedication and ability to finish what you've started, in an academic sense.

Of course I could be completely wrong about all this, I don't have any special insight into admissions other than what I have learned from browsing this forum.

I think you have good second choices. Other schools that you could consider are Georgetown, GWU, CMU-Heinz, Syracuse, University of Denver, UCLA. They have varying levels of international focus so you should look at the concentrations, course descriptions, and professor bios to see what fits with your interests. I am curious why you don't have SAIS as a dream school? It seems like their regional studies program for Asia would be a perfect fit for you and your language skills would count for a lot. If you didn't want to limit yourself geographically, you could still do a functional concentration.

[Hodor]

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I think you have good second choices. Other schools that you could consider are Georgetown, GWU, CMU-Heinz, Syracuse, University of Denver, UCLA. They have varying levels of international focus so you should look at the concentrations, course descriptions, and professor bios to see what fits with your interests. I am curious why you don't have SAIS as a dream school? It seems like their regional studies program for Asia would be a perfect fit for you and your language skills would count for a lot. If you didn't want to limit yourself geographically, you could still do a functional concentration in the international sphere.

Sorry I wasn't too clear, I'm going for an MPP in Policy Analysis not IR. Thanks for the advice though, I'll look at the other programs and try to get some decent letters of recommendation. I am not going for IR b/c I don't think the quantitative analysis is too strong, but if you know of programs that do have strong quant programs I'd appreciate any pointers. I'm really not into SAIS b/c of the neo-con faculty, but I haven't heard any specifics about the program beyond that.

[JAubrey]

I'm really not into SAIS b/c of the neo-con faculty, but I haven't heard any specifics about the program beyond that.

This is literally one of the most asinine things I have ever read on here.

[Azrou]

Sorry I wasn't too clear, I'm going for an MPP in Policy Analysis not IR. Thanks for the advice though, I'll look at the other programs and try to get some decent letters of recommendation. I am not going for IR b/c I don't think the quantitative analysis is too strong, but if you know of programs that do have strong quant programs I'd appreciate any pointers. I'm really not into SAIS b/c of the neo-con faculty, but I haven't heard any specifics about the program beyond that.

Right, I didn't mean to imply that you would be studying IR, but guessed from your profile you would be interested in a degree that you could apply in an international context. I applied to programs that will connect with the international development field. They go by a variety of names. Some of are MPP, some are MPAff, MPA, or Master of ID. As someone pointed out in another thread, the degree title does not matter so much, it really comes down to the courses you take and the focus of the faculty/school.

I would suggest you take a hard second look at SAIS. Maybe reach out and look any friends/friends of friends/etc who are alumni that you could talk to.

[Hodor]

Right, I didn't mean to imply that you would be studying IR, but guessed from your profile you would be interested in a degree that you could apply in an international context. I applied to programs that will connect with the international development field. They go by a variety of names. Some of are MPP, some are MPAff, MPA, or Master of ID. As someone pointed out in another thread, the degree title does not matter so much, it really comes down to the courses you take and the focus of the faculty/school.

I would suggest you take a hard second look at SAIS. Maybe reach out and look any friends/friends of friends/etc who are alumni that you could talk to.

Yeah, I'll check out SAIS, thanks for the advice.

E: re others reactions to the "neo-con" statement, I was a little premature on that, they have large faculty with many different focuses. However, I still think their senior leadership (Wolfowitz, Cohen) and students (Karlin) has advocated and planned some seriously terrible Mid-East FP over the years, but granted will not really affect anything I'm going to study and represents a minority.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Hodor

[Wearysheep]

New to the forum. Brief bio - Graduated from Univ. FL w/ BA in Business Admin (3.6 GPA, w/ honors) and from Univ. FL Law School w/ JD (3.1 GPA, which was top 25% of class).

Have been practicing law for 8 years, 4 with a medium sized firm and 4 out on my own. Wide range of civil law practice (no crim law practice).

Never took the GRE. But did very well on the LSAT and the FL Bar exam. Because of my JD, I have been told by the different graduate admissions offices that a GRE is not required.

3 years of HS Spanish and 1 year college level Spanish.

Have always had a strong interest in international security related studies. Contribute to a number of security related blogs. No military experience. Did have a conditional offer of employment with DIA right out of law school but turned it down due to relocation and family issues (still kicking myself for that one).

No LORs from professors as I have lost touch with them being out of school as long as I have. However, all LORs from professionals with security related work experience.

Strong writing sample regarding DPRK provocations in the Yellow Sea.

Based upon my review of these kinds of forums, I realize I am not your "typical" applicant. I have applied to SFS (SSP), ESIA (SPS) and SIS (US Foreign Policy).

Very anxiously awaiting admissions responses from these programs.

jhpigott--I'm an attorney who's about to start a federal clerkship (Sept '12) and apply to grad school for IR after, to many of the schools you are interested in. Did you take the GREs at all?

[jhpigott]

jhpigott--I'm an attorney who's about to start a federal clerkship (Sept '12) and apply to grad school for IR after, to many of the schools you are interested in. Did you take the GREs at all?

Never did. Just took the LSAT out of undergrad. The programs I applied to have a GRE waiver if you already hold a M.A. or higher (although with GT I had to provide a brief memo as to why I believed I should be provided a GRE waiver). Probably wouldn't have hurt to have taken my GREs, but it's been a long time since I've taken a standarized test and my workload doesn't exactly lend itself to copious amounts of study time to brush up on my test taking ability. Given my J.D. and work experience, I did not get the impression from speaking with the admissions officers at GT, GWU or AU that not taking the GRE was going to hurt my chances of getting in.

[Wearysheep]

Thanks for responding! I'll have 7 years under my belt post-clerkship, so hopefully I'll be in GRE waiver realm too. Had never heard of a GRE waiver before you brought it up. How did you find out about it?

[jhpigott]

GWU Elliott admissions website states - "GRE test scores are encouraged but not required for an applicant who already holds a master's degree (or higher)."

http://elliott.gwu.e...equirements.cfm

AU SIS admissions website states -

"Graduate Record Examination (GRE) is required of all masters applicants, except for:

• Applicant holding advanced degrees at the time of application (GRE strongly encouraged but not required). "
  
• http://www.american....equirements.cfm
  
• 
  

Georgetown doesn't have any language like that on their website, but was informed by a friend (who also holds a J.D.) that if you requested a GRE waiver from SSP admissions they would likely grant it. I did and they did.

All that being said, we'll see if I get in w/o GRE scores.

Edited March 1, 2012 by jhpigott

[jewelieanne]

Since this forum helped me so much during the application process, thought I would post my stats to give similarly situated people hope.

Program Applied To (MPA, MPP, IR, etc.): MPP

Schools Applying To: GPPI, GWU Trachtenberg, American SPA (got in to all three! )

Undergraduate institution: University of Colorado Boulder

Undergraduate GPA: 3.39

Undergraduate Majors: Broadcast Journalism, Political Science

Study Abroad: a semester in Amsterdam

GRE Quantitative Score: 155 (69th percentile)

GRE Verbal Score: 163 (94th percentile)

GRE AW Score: 5

Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): almost 1 (graduated May 2011)

Years of Work Experience: been working part time since 16, full time since graduation

Describe Relevant Work Experience: working for engineers (lots of quant analysis) since I was 18, internship at #1 Denver news station, lots of temp jobs and retail jobs

Languages: kindergarden level Spanish and Dutch

Quant: One calculus class, microeconomics, macroeconomics

Strength of SOP: I like to think I am a good writer, I think this was one of the strongest components of my app.

Strength of LOR (be honest, describe the process, etc): They were apparently strong enough to get me in!

Moral of the story: My low self esteem somehow convinced me I wasn't going to get in anywhere, but miracles DO happen!! Take a chance on yourself people!

[beefmaster]

Program Applied To (MPA, MPP, IR, etc.): Middle East Studies / IR etc.

Schools Applied To: Fletcher (MALD), Georgetown (Arab Studies), George Washington (Middle East Studies), SAIS (Middle East Studies)

Schools Admitted To: 0

Schools Rejected From: 0

Still Waiting: All

Undergraduate institution: UK university

Undergraduate GPA: 1st

Last 60 hours of Undergraduate GPA (if applicable):

Undergraduate Major: History

GRE Quantitative Score: 145 :( :(

GRE Verbal Score: 154

GRE AW Score: ?

Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 2

Years of Work Experience: 3

Describe Relevant Work Experience:

2 years at NGO in the Middle East as a Programme Officer. Written proposals, gained funding, and implemented projects from funders such as USAID, MEPI, US Embassy, Irish Embassy, UK Embassy, Sawaris Foundation, National Endowment for Democracy, National Democratic Institute, Finnish Embassy, Swedish International Development Association, Germany Embassy, GTZ, UNDP, New Zealand Embassy, and the American Development Foundation.

Managed project budgets in the region of 15,000 USD - 500,000 USD

Following the 'Arab Spring' worked on capacity building for new political parties etc.

Travelled extensively throughout the Middle East (Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan, Palestine, and Egypt) and have spent time studying Arabic in both Syria and Egypt.

Languages: English (native), Arabic (working knowledge), French (limited knowledge)

Quant: Financial management of project budgets as describe above, will be taking intro macro and micro through the University of Oxford school for Continuing Education from Jan - June 2012

Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Work and travel experience as described above.

Strength of LOR (be honest, describe the process, etc): 3 professors from undergraduate institution who I took final year classes with and one of whom was my dissertation supervisor.

Anyone got any idea how I stand considering my terrible quant score? Should I even bother paying the fee and submitting my applications?

Just thought I would post a little update for people worried about their GRE scores. As you can see above my GRE scores are a LOT lower than the average of posters on here and that of the schools I applied to general requirements.

But I just received an acceptance for Elliott at GWU.

Basically I just wanted to say to future applicants...although obviously it would be great to get a high GRE score, if you don't and have run out of time for a retake, just work on other parts of your application and build a strong profile that way.

[JayLovesAfrica]

@Beefmaster, I feel like your Quant stuff:

"Quant: Financial management of project budgets as describe above, will be taking intro macro and micro through the University of Oxford school for Continuing Education from Jan - June 2012"

really outweighs your GRE score. Add your work experience and it is not at all surprising that you got into GW! Well done! I got into Elliott too, and my GRE quant score was pretty poor, but I did well in introductory stats and principles of econ courses. Taking those classes via distance education with Harvard Extension School really improved my chances. The lesson I learned was not to give up because even Literature majors like me can be accepted into IR programs!

[Et81]

_{Hi all,}

_{I'm new and very thankful to find this forum! I intend to apply for fall 2013 admission.}

_{I believe my overall profile (esp work experience) would be fairly ok if I ace my GRE. My main problem is that I'm out of school for a while (almost 9 years) and have no links or contacts to my profs in undergraduate since then. I'm not confident I'll get a good LOR from an academic but I will have no problems obtaining good LOR from employers. I do not have a high GPA (see reason below) but I'm done fretting over that. Just want to get a sense if the schools I plan to apply will be a long shot for me.}

_{Also, I need advice on whether I should apply to 1yr MPP or 2yr MPS/IR programs. Are my work experience substantial enough for 1yr MPPs? Or would l be too old for 2yr MPAs/IRs? I will turn 32 in 2013.}

_{Program Applied To (MPA, MPP, IR, etc.): Considering MPP/MPA/IR}

_{Schools Applied To: Fletcher (MALD),Planning to apply for Fall 2013 to Princeton WWS, Syracuse, George Washington, SAIS}

_{Schools Admitted To: 0}

_{Schools Rejected From: 0}

_{Still Waiting: 0}

_{Undergraduate institution: SUNY Buffalo, graduated 2002}

_{Undergraduate GPA: 3.2 (I can explain this - I had a car accident in junior year, fractured my pelvic bone and was in pain for one whole semester. Was obviously not in shape to get As)}

_{Undergraduate Major: Communications}

_{GRE Quantitative Score: ? Still studying for GRE}

_{GRE Verbal Score: ?}

_{GRE AW Score: ?}

_{Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 8.5}

_{Years of Work Experience: 8.5}

_{Describe Relevant Work Experience: 5.5 years in advertising. 3 Years and counting in the public sector. (Made the switch to public sector in 2009 and never looked back!)}

_{5.5 Years in advertising - Worked in large advertising agencies Ogilvy & Mather, Iris Nation etc}

_{3 years in Public Sector - Worked 2 years in a government outreach agency, tasked to share Singapore's developmental experience with foreign governments. Established G2G/Multilateral relationships and travelled extensively to countries in East Asia, South Asia, with international organizations (WB, ADB, CommSec) as our key developmental counterpart. Currently on secondment to World Bank as Special Assistant to Director, assignment will end March 2013.}

_{Languages: English and Mandarin.}

_{Quant: None at undergraduate level. Will consider online courses from UCB extension.}

_{Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Strong. I am able to articulate my career plans, mission and describe work experience as above.}

_{Strength of LOR (be honest, describe the process, etc): 1 from the government, another from World Bank. I have left school for too long (since 2002) and wonders if a LOR from my undergraduate profs will have relevance to my intended graduate study.}

_Thanks!

[MYRNIST]

I'd like to preface this by saying it sounds like you already have an awesome career, so don't take what I say as a slam - just that I think there is a major disconnect between your candidate profile and the schools you're applying for.

Most of the schools you named (Princeton WWS, George Washington, SAIS, Fletcher) are among the very best in the world: truly global, elite programs. They would be major longshots. I strongly recommend including some good but not quite as selective institutions in your application plans - American SIS? Chicago CIR? Denver Korbel? etc. - since there are some holes in your profile.

- Without any quant background whatsoever you are almost guaranteed out at SAIS, as fully half of your curriculum is high-level economics. It also will severely harm your chances at a lot of other schools, as elite MPA/MPP programs do require a fair bit of quant. I recommend taking some classes (online? community college? whatever) in Microeconomics, Macroeconomics, and Statistics. They will greatly help your competitiveness.

- Quite low undergrad GPA is not helping - you're for sure going to be in the bottom quartile of applicants for all your planned schools. I understand your accident and sympathize, but unfortunately transcripts and GPAs don't come with an asterisk attached: they are what they are. You could explain it in your SOP, but I wouldn't recommend using that limited space to talk up your negatives. There often is an option in grad applications to attach an additional document, which would be a fine place to explain the circumstances contributing to your low GPA. This is yet another reason to take some part-time classes and ace them, to show positive academic progression.

- Bust your butt studying for the GRE. Since you have been out of school for a long time, and do not have a particularly strong academic background, I think it is important to show you have the academic chops to go along with your unquestioned professional experience. In your situation Quantitative will be especially important, but luckily it is a highly masterable test

- SOP will also be very important, as it is for all applicants. Polish, polish, polish.

I think if you do the work to improve your profile (ace the GRE, take quant classes, killer SOP) you would be a great candidate for second-tier schools, and a live underdog at the elites.

Edited March 12, 2012 by MYRNIST

[Et81]

Thank you, this is the reality check I needed. Always thought those school were long shots and I should start researching on less selective schools, your suggestions are good places to start. GRE quant doesn't seem to be an issue from my practice results but will contiune to bust my ass to get the best possible results! And save some $$$ for online quant classes...

[piquant777]

MYRNIST, you are like the Simon Cowell of Gradcafe.

[MYRNIST]

LOL, it's more like I am so stressed out about grad school I am incapable of talking or thinking productively about anything else.

[msal]

I would also like to make a contribution to the forum. Here are my stats

Program Applied To : MPP/IR

Schools Applied To: Kennedy MPP; SIPA MIA; SAIS; Georgetown MSFS; GWU Elliott

Schools Admitted To: GWU Elliott

Schools Rejected From: -

Still Waiting: All others

Undergraduate institution: Turkish University

Undergraduate GPA: 3.63

Undergraduate Major: Economics

GRE Quantitative Score: 168 (96%)

GRE Verbal Score: 153 (62%)

GRE AW Score: 4.5 (72%)

Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 8

Years of Work Experience: 8

Describe Relevant Work Experience:

8 years in a public institution dealing with International Financial Institutions. Attended many high level International Meetings

Languages: Turkish (native), English (good)

Quant: Good thanks to economics major

Strength of SOP: Work experience.

Strength of LOR: Hopefully very good references from supervisors