2017-2018 Application Cycle

[JMCrawfordNJ]

2 minutes ago, deutsch1997bw said:

I have been told by a very trusted professor that I need to be aware of how brutal the market is. Wouldn't any sensical professor tell a student interested in attending a PhD program this? This is how you weed out those that aren't passionate.

Well, I'm not sure the older professors know just how rough it might be post 2008. I know generally the job market has finally started to recover from that, but I lived through the thick of 2008-2012 on the job market before going back to school, and if it's as bad in the academic job market as it was in the general market back then, it's no joke. But the older people who didn't go through it, probably didn't ever notice just how bad it really was.

[polsgoals]

44 minutes ago, arctic_ice said:

I'm sorry for saying this, do not be offended!-but...may be, the problem is in you but not in the ranking of your program? You are thinking of driving Uber after completion of Ph.D. in a top-notch program?...well...

Hmmm... I think I’m going to push back on this one.

BigTenPoliSci and others are simply pointing out the very real fact that TT jobs are fewer and far between than they were a decade+ ago. It’s no secret to anyone who is paying attention that academic positions (TT or otherwise) in no way favor the applicant. There are 100s of amazing people vying for every open spot and hiring committees can, and do, easily weed people out via institutional pedigree. Sure, relationships/connections matter and can help you get your foot in the door, but they alone will not get you the job. We all know that where you go matters, none of us would be on this forum or asking questions if we thought otherwise and no one is telling you to abandon your dreams of pursuing a PhD if you don’t go top ten. Rather, they are highlighting the very real fact that if you get in and graduate from a lower ranked program you will (in 5-6 YEARS) have a more difficult time securing an academic position. 

 

This forum has been a great source of  information/support for a lot of applicants (and current students) during the application/grad school process, let’s not sully the waters with rudeness or condescension. Collegiality people, that’s where it’s at.

[guest56436]

For the record, I'm not trying to be overly negative. I just don't like to see undue optimism or half-truths. I think there is always value in the more 'experienced' grad students/scholars who come on here and drop bombs of truth. The waters of academia are incredibly rough; don't go in with wool covered eyes. 

[toad1]

6 minutes ago, Comparativist said:

For the record, I'm not trying to be overly negative. I just don't like to see undue optimism or half-truths. I think there is always value in the more 'experienced' grad students/scholars who come on here and drop bombs of truth. The waters of academia are incredibly rough; don't go in with wool covered eyes. 

That's fine, and I think everyone would agree with recognizing the harsh reality of the job market -- but since most of us are in this for the passion of the study, I'd hate to see anyone decide against pursuing their passion (and settle for a career that's likely in an entirely different field) because they couldn't break the top 20 schools. Even if the end result isn't a TT position, there is still value in a PhD. I appreciate your side being blunt about the reality, but I also think we can be encouraging to those who want to go down this path for good reason.

[meteora]

58 minutes ago, Midwest_PoliNERD said:

Hey everybody, not to shift the subject or anything, but I can say that I got an interview at the University of Illinois. Not sure what it means, but I just wanted to update everybody who may have applied there or are just curious. Best to all!!!

Thanks for the information. I hope your interview goes well. 

May I know when you were notified? Did you post on the results page?

[possibleirphd]

Hello everyone! I have also left Lurksville and decided to join the convo.

I have applied to Rice, Emory, Columbia, Berkeley, Cornell, Notre Dame, Princeton, Brown, Duke, Penn State, and Vandy. 

I have not received any notification from either Rice or Emory and I know some people got notified already. I have a comparative friend that got into Rice and Emory and an americanist that got into Emory today. Any IR people that got in? Please help my anxiety is through the roof. I want to know something whether it is a reject or not.

Thanks and good luck to everyone!

[Midwest_PoliNERD]

12 minutes ago, meteora said:

Thanks for the information. I hope your interview goes well. 

May I know when you were notified? Did you post on the results page?

Hi meteora,

I received it today at around 7:00pm -ish central time. It is scheduled for this Thursday. And yes I did post it on the results page.

Best! 

[deutsch1997bw]

5 minutes ago, possibleirphd said:

I have not received any notification from either Rice or Emory and I know some people got notified already. I have a comparative friend that got into Rice and Emory and an americanist that got into Emory today. Any IR people that got in? Please help my anxiety is through the roof. I want to know something whether it is a reject or not.

 

I applied to Emory for CP, and I've not heard anything either. 

[meteora]

2 minutes ago, Midwest_PoliNERD said:

Hi meteora,

I received it today at around 7:00pm -ish central time. It is scheduled for this Thursday. And yes I did post it on the results page.

Best! 

Wow. Your information is really specific. Thanks!

[jnewcomb08]

starting to get worried as i applied to wisconsin and emory as well with no response.  i applied to 11 schools, so i just need one.  still though...

[SDMSK]

6 minutes ago, possibleirphd said:

Hello everyone! I have also left Lurksville and decided to join the convo.

I have applied to Rice, Emory, Columbia, Berkeley, Cornell, Notre Dame, Princeton, Brown, Duke, Penn State, and Vandy. 

I have not received any notification from either Rice or Emory and I know some people got notified already. I have a comparative friend that got into Rice and Emory and an americanist that got into Emory today. Any IR people that got in? Please help my anxiety is through the roof. I want to know something whether it is a reject or not.

Thanks and good luck to everyone!

I was wondering the same thing as you. I applied to Emory and Rice too and I am an IR. I noticed that all of the Emory result today were in Comparative? I hope that means IR hasn't announced the result yet.

[possibleirphd]

Just now, deutsch1997bw said:

I applied to Emory for CP, and I've not heard anything either. 

My hope is that tomorrow they will finish making calls to those that got accepted, but how does it take 3 days to call 30-40 people? Idk, trying to remain optimistic. Best of luck.

[possibleirphd]

Just now, Qw23 said:

I was wondering the same thing as you. I applied to Emory and Rice too and I am an IR. I noticed that all of the Emory result today were in Comparative? I hope that means IR hasn't announced the result yet.

That is my hope too. I hope we all get calls tomorrow or at least some kind of notification by Friday. I am tired of worrying lol 

[Midwest_PoliNERD]

7 minutes ago, meteora said:

Wow. Your information is really specific. Thanks!

You're very welcome!

[deutsch1997bw]

7 minutes ago, possibleirphd said:

My hope is that tomorrow they will finish making calls to those that got accepted, but how does it take 3 days to call 30-40 people? Idk, trying to remain optimistic. Best of luck.

I'm hoping that there are still CP decisions to be announced. My worry is that they all have already been. After all, not everyone that gets accepted posts their results on Grad Cafe!

[wnk4242]

On 2018/1/22 at 12:19 PM, izmir said:

FSU

Same thing happened to me, izmir. I applied to a PhD program at FSU and I received an email from their Grad School telling me that I had been nominated for the Legacy Fellowship. I asked my POI what was going on because I hadn't received a formal acceptance letter yet. POI told me that I had been admitted to the program. It's just that there is a time gap between their decision and the Office of Admissions. My folder is now in the Office of Admissions. I'm so looking forward to receiving the formal letter! 

[izmir]

6 minutes ago, wnk4242 said:

Same thing happened to me, izmir. I applied to a PhD program at FSU and I received an email from their Grad School telling me that I had been nominated for the Legacy Fellowship. I asked my POI what was going on because I hadn't received a formal acceptance letter yet. POI told me that I had been admitted to the program. It's just that there is a time gap between their decision and the Office of Admissions. My folder is now in the Office of Admissions. I'm so looking forward to receiving the formal letter! 

Congrats! Hope we will get them soon.

[wnk4242]

7 minutes ago, izmir said:

Congrats! Hope we will get them soon.

Have you confirmed your admission with your POI?

[izmir]

6 minutes ago, wnk4242 said:

Have you confirmed your admission with your POI?

Yes. I contacted with the DGS and he confirmed it.

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by izmir

[wnk4242]

2 minutes ago, izmir said:

Yes. I contacted with the DGS and he confirmed it. Do you know how many fellowships they award each year?

I have no idea about that. Apparently, they are limited. I think we are their top choices, so funding would not be a problem for us

[buckinghamubadger]

On the subject of admissions decisions coming this week, the University of Colorado Boulder tends to release some decisions Wednesday or Thursday of this week with more to follow in Feb. Though they have not always followed this trend (they may start next week), we might begin to hear stuff from them in the next couple weeks. Not sure if I am the only one who applied.

[Hamb]

55 minutes ago, buckinghamubadger said:

On the subject of admissions decisions coming this week, the University of Colorado Boulder tends to release some decisions Wednesday or Thursday of this week with more to follow in Feb. Though they have not always followed this trend (they may start next week), we might begin to hear stuff from them in the next couple weeks. Not sure if I am the only one who applied.

I also applied. Didn't realize they were one of the January one's, now I'm looking forward to that!

Edited January 24, 2018 by Hamb

[jobryan]

Hey guys! 

Congrats on your interviews/acceptances! Out of curiosity, is there a post where we've collated previous interview questions? I've searched around and haven't found it. If not, I'd love to hear a bit about the kinds of things they're asking this year.

 

Best of luck all! 

[DreamersDay]

4 hours ago, buckinghamubadger said:

Here is the page that shows 5 year placement at Notre Dame:

 

https://graduateschool.nd.edu/departments-and-programs/ph-d-programs/political-science/placement-history/

 

Here is the one showing Michigan's five year placement:

 

https://tableau.dsc.umich.edu/t/UM-Public/views/RackhamDoctoralProgramStatistics/ProgramStatistics?:embed=y&:showAppBanner=false&:showShareOptions=true&:display_count=no&:showVizHome=no&FOSDParameter=All+Rackham

 

Note the marginal difference. 

I do not think you are making an apples to apples comparison here.

You quoted this as " Michigan (#4) places 60 percent of it's PhDs in TT jobs after 5 years, Notre Dame (#37) places 53 percent."

Michigan provides much more of its data.

Nortre Dame provides percentages for initial placements for the 2015-16 year, and 5 year placements for 06/07-10/11, the later of which mixes pre-financial crisis and post-crisis data.  

And they seemingly arbitrary cut the data for everyone from 11/12-14/15.  If you saw an academic study funded by a product manufacture that just arbitrarily cut out a mid-portion of their data regarding that product, wouldn't you be suspicious?  

They also provide no attrition data whereas Michigan does: how do we know if their placement record represents an artificially improved set of outcomes because they're not graduating more of their students? 

Consider a more apples to apples comparison: the initial placement of the class of 2016 (the only year that Notre Dame gives by itself)

Notre Dame placed 1 person (9%) initially in a tenure track teaching position in 2016.  
Michigan placed 35% initially in a tenure track teaching position in 2016.  

That doesn't seem like anything like a 'marginal difference', that seems like a huge difference.

And, given that they literally had just 1 initial TT placement in 2016, that makes the omission of the immediately proceeding years even more suspicious.  Were there years they placed no one?  And, doesn't the dramatic drop off between an average initial TT placement of 38% for 06/07-10/11 vs a 9% initial placement record for 15/16 indicate a sharp decline in placement, perhaps even more dramatic than what is actually shown since they cut out a large set of their data.  

 

[swampyankee]

I realize  how anxious people are to hear about their specific programs, but I appreciate @DreamersDay's return to the rankings question. I actually think it's a valuable discussion as we decide where to enroll, and for anyone in future years who might stumble upon this thread.

@Comparativist, thanks for linking to those articles. They cite two studies: Oprisko's on Politicial Science placement, and Clauset, Arbesman, and Larremore's on placement across Business, Computer Science, and History. Both attribute about half of tenure-track placement to the top dozen or so programs in their respective fields.

But here's my problem: Oprisko focuses on the 116 institutions that granted PhDs at the time. Clauset, Arbesman, and Larremore look at faculty at 242 institutions. 

The number of four-year colleges in the U.S. is slightly over 3,000. Granted, I cannot imagine happily working at two-thirds of them. Many require an arduous teaching load and/or are in financial peril. 

I think there is a lot of dissonance between the fact that graduate school is all about research, and that the higher education market is primarily about... education... so, teaching. Hiring faculty to do research is, to be honest, somewhat philanthropic, and it makes sense that there are only 100-150 institutions where one can expect political science research to be half or more of their work. And that the top 10-15 programs would fill most of those institutions' positions.

I agree, then, @Comparativist, that it is very difficult to become a big-name political scientist from outside the elite tier. Does that mean everyone else is doomed?

Well, what is doomed? There are several hundred more institutions worth working at, so long as one is willing to balance research with a heavy dose of teaching. I linked to the FSU, Iowa, and George Washington placement pages, and you and @BigTenPoliSci questioned the trustworthiness of such lists. So, I verified the North American academic placements listed for each institution's graduates over the past five years. Out of 63, only four cases were overstated. The vast majority were perfectly accurate. I'd be happy to share specifics via PM.

I happen to be friends with one of these institutions' graduates, whose placement was less impressive than the school's median. He has to live in a remote location, but gets paid decently at a well-run institution. He just finished a book and earned tenure. Overall, I'd trade places with him, and I agree with @toad1 that his students would be poorer if he'd listened to the naysaying.

Of course, @toad1 alluded to the limits of this logic, and I agree wholeheartedly. APSA lists 131 PhD programs in Political Science. Attending programs in the bottom half of that list (however you want to cut it: productivity, funding, prestige, etc.) is unlikely to lead to a happy academic career. Looking at placements somewhere at the midpoint -- UConn, Temple, and Georgia -- we see a minority of good placements, but generally have to ask: how dissimilar are most of these jobs from teaching high school, and was it worth five to seven years of extra preparation? @DreamersDay also validly brings up the question of whether graduates from mid-ranked schools more frequently need to take visiting roles before entering the tenure-track.

There definitely is a threshold below which it is unwise to attend. But "CHYMPS (or top 10 or top 20) or bust," as @toad1 stated, looks at academia through a very narrow, elite lens.