Love, Academia and Success

[Adelaide9216]

I've been talking more consistently with 3 men but haven't had a date with any of them yet. 

[ShewantsthePhD101]

On 11/26/2017 at 5:27 PM, Adelaide9216 said:

I'm so scared of never having a family. I'm going to have a hard time accepting that if it ends up happening to me. 

You can have a family without having a spouse. If having a family is the priority and you can't find a willing partner, it may be time to consider starting one on your own.

[Adelaide9216]

37 minutes ago, ShewantsthePhD101 said:

You can have a family without having a spouse. If having a family is the priority and you can't find a willing partner, it may be time to consider starting one on your own.

I agree and that's already an option for me. 

[khigh]

You don’t need to find a lot of men or date a lot. You just have to find one. You never know when that one will show up. 

[Oklash]

Adding to what every one else has said. I am 22, almost 23, and will get my phd in English. The literary scene of Shakespeare and Milton isnt teeming with black women so I don't really "fit" the model either. I also identify as asexual too, so thats another strike against the standard of black femininity. 

So I don't really have any optimistic claims like "i've come to terms with it," or "maybe I'll find someone." In all honesty, I've just given up. I want to date and get married/have children but I know my chances are slim. But I also want to be a professor/researcher and that job does not have much in the way of location choice. More than likely I will have to follow my career. If my career calls for moving across the country, then I will have to move across the country. So the silver lining of my lack luster love life is that I do not plan on worrying about how a relationship will get in the way of that.

This may not be the most encouraging response and I am sorry for that. But I don't mind my career being the sole purpose of my life. I am not trying to change the world but if i can just quietly research, teach, and present, I'd be happy. So dont  worry about love. Its cool but it isnt the only thing. 

[Adelaide9216]

5 hours ago, Oklash said:

Adding to what every one else has said. I am 22, almost 23, and will get my phd in English. The literary scene of Shakespeare and Milton isnt teeming with black women so I don't really "fit" the model either. I also identify as asexual too, so thats another strike against the standard of black femininity. 

So I don't really have any optimistic claims like "i've come to terms with it," or "maybe I'll find someone." In all honesty, I've just given up. I want to date and get married/have children but I know my chances are slim. But I also want to be a professor/researcher and that job does not have much in the way of location choice. More than likely I will have to follow my career. If my career calls for moving across the country, then I will have to move across the country. So the silver lining of my lack luster love life is that I do not plan on worrying about how a relationship will get in the way of that.

This may not be the most encouraging response and I am sorry for that. But I don't mind my career being the sole purpose of my life. I am not trying to change the world but if i can just quietly research, teach, and present, I'd be happy. So dont  worry about love. Its cool but it isnt the only thing. 

I also try to come to terms with it, but it's hard because I personally do mind having my career as a sole purpose of my life. 

PS : I've met plenty of new people lately, but am still single. This is so fucked up: I meet new people all the time, I am respected and appreciated in my community and yet, nobody seems to be interested in what I have to offer as a romantic partner. The funny thing is that I do think that I have a lot to offer. But nobody sees it or sees value in it and that's what hurts me. I feel like I have to 'change' who I am in order to be loved and having the feeling that I have to make that choice is extremely painful to me. I always choose to remain myself because I don't know how to be any other way. And I don't want to betray myself by becoming someone I am not.  I think I should give up too. It feels like it's too much to ask to be loved for who I am. I just get this sense of extreme despair and hopelessness when I think about this and all the times I've been rejected, so I try to focus on other things because it's not good for my mental health. Last summer, I'd be crying almost 4-5 nights a week due to this. It just hurts me so much that it's been a constant struggle my entire life. I don't understand why it's so hard. I'm bubbly, I'm funny, I'm talkative, I do believe that I am relatelely smart and I take good care of the people who are important to me. I'm a great listener and am very loyal and supportive. I am kind and people say that I am attractive when they see me or look at my pictures. So I don't understand what's the issue.  I've been shifting the focus on other things and I haven't cried as much anymore. But I am getting ready to the possibility that I may never have a significant and positive romantic experience. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Adelaide9216

[Adelaide9216]

I'm so sorry for this rant. I did not want to talk about it, but you posted in the thread and it makes all the emotions go up again. It's not the end of the world and I know other people go through worse. Yet, I don't know why it makes me so sad whenever I think about it. I just feel powerless over this. Which is ironic because I feel like I have some sort of control and power in other spheres and aspects of my life. But romantically speaking, I just feel hopeless, uncompetent and powerless. 

[ShewantsthePhD101]

@Adelaide9216 people are getting married older and older nowadays. You are, in no respect, out of time or ruled out from having romantic experiences. <3 Be patient with yourself. And life. One thing at a time.

[Adelaide9216]

I am being misunderstood here. I am not talking about getting married. I am talking about having a relationship.

 

PS : I am the only person in my group of friends who has never been in a relationship. Most of my friends are parents, engaged or are in a relationship. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Adelaide9216

[Adelaide9216]

I've always had an excellent intuition. Always. I'm pretty good at sensing things. I just feel that I'll never experience a significant and positive relationship and that this area of my life will remain a constant struggle. I am not being negative when I say this, this is just an intuition that I do have and I sincerely believe that I won't be wrong. 

A few months ago, I watched a TV report on a 15 year old girl who died in a car accident. That 15 year old girl wasn't the driver of the car, it was a young boy. she was with a group of friends and speed was involved in the accident. Her mother and her sister were very disturbed by the fact that the 15 year old girl grew up saying that she couldn't project herself as an adult. She just had this feeling that she would never get old, without exactly knowing why and it it something that she expressed often. In the TV report, the mother ended up saying 'I am now convinced that my daughter knew that she would die at a very early age'. She wasn't taking those remarks seriously when the 15 year old girl would make them, but looking back, she said that her daughter just could sense that she would never get old and that it probably explains why she lived her life to the fullest like she did, because she just felt like she did not have a lot of time ahead of her. 

Personally speaking, growing up, I've always had dreams about my family as an adult (without necessarily thinking about having children at that age) but for some reason, my dreams (when I was 12 years old) were about my daughter and I. There was never a man or a father figure in those dreams. Which isn't the end of the world now that I look back at it, but I find it very ironic that I am working on having a child on my own, without a partner in the next couple of years. 

Plus, when I was a teenager, women would constantly tell me that I'd be harder for someone like me to find a partner. That was 10-12 years ago. I now realize that they were right and that I am still single. I don't think that's going to change. It has nothing to do with my age. I just feel it and I have so many signs of it in my life that indicate to me that I won't be lucky in that regards.

I always thought I could 'have it all' in life but obviously, I need to learn that I am failing in that aspect to my own standards and that I need to appreciate the fact that I have a career, friends, a good family of origin. That's already a lot. If I never have a partner and a significant positive romantic experience, it's not the end of the world I must tell myself. 

[ashley623]

@Adelaide9216, I might have missed it elsewhere in this thread, but did you mention how old you are? 

I truly feel for you and hope things will get better. I think your feelings are 100% validate and can empathize. <3 

[Adelaide9216]

7 hours ago, katie64 said:

@Adelaide9216, I might have missed it elsewhere in this thread, but did you mention how old you are? 

I truly feel for you and hope things will get better. I think your feelings are 100% validate and can empathize. <3 

I am turning 26 this year.

 

thanks for your kind words.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Adelaide9216

[Adelaide9216]

I think the reason why I find it increasingly difficult to be single is that I lack true intimacy in my life in general.

The only person I truly feel close to is a college teacher I had a few years ago, who became a mentor to me after I graduated. We write to each other regularly and he supports me in anything I do. And he's been part of my life for the last four years and he has seen me at my lowest and stayed in my life despite that.

I often feel that if I would not be doing conferences or media interviews, if I did not win awards, that no one would care about me. I have friends, but I often wonder 'If I make a mistake, or something terrible happens to me, who's truly going to be supportive? Who's going to truly care?". Those questions create the fact that I don't let anyone get close to me, out of fear of being dissapointed or rejected. I may come across as rude in the sense that when I have people wanting to be my friend, I don't always return the steps they make towards me. But I just feel like I have to be selective in terms of who I can be friends with and who I can trust. 

I experienced bullying as a child and as a teenager and I just get very anxious when people come towards me to be my 'friends' now that I'm grown up. I feel like I can't truly rely on them and that they come towards me because of those things that I do, not because they actually care about me as a human being. I live with a mental illness and I speak very openly and publicly about what I went through when I was younger, but a lot of people don't understand that I still have bad days. And when I try to tell people that I'm going through a bad day, I rapidly see that they don't want to hear it.

I feel extremely lonely and I feel trapped in this image that people have of me. Sometimes, I'd like to say out loud that even if I am in recovery, I sometimes still struggle even if I come across as having everything together. But I'm afraid I would sound like I'm full of myself if I did that. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Adelaide9216

[jocorac]

 

I'm late to this convo, but I understand where you are coming from completely. I'm 25 and a black woman getting a PhD in the fall. When talking to guys, I've become very cautious about saying what I'm doing with my life because many of them would look at me completely different. I feel behind because most of my high school classmates are married, with kids, and jobs, but here I am, wanting more degrees.. and honestly, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that but because of the society we live in, especially within the black community, its look down upon. Although its tough for me right now, I know that I'm doing what's best for my future. Don't think you are alone in this. My friend and I were talking about this the other day and it's really scary. I'm learning that what is for me, is waiting for me personally. And whether he comes in the next month or the next 2-3 years, (God I hope not lol), I know that someone is out there who will love my ambition. 

Don't give up hope. I know I won't. 

 

[PokePsych]

I'm 25 and my 4.5 years relationship just finished. I'm honestly glad to be single again and not have to consider someone else in my life and career choices. Feel like I sacrificed too much over the last 2 years which could have propelled my career in some directions. Ugh.

[mstran]

I feel you. I’m from Vietnam, an Asian country that expects woman to be not too smart, to be submissive, etc. I was single for 6 years no matter how hard I tried in going out with guys. I thought all my strengths became weaknesses: I got a lot of academic prizes, won a scholarship to study in America, and travelled to 8 countries, which was a bit unusual for a Vietnamese woman at the age of 24. Men would think I was too much. Plus I have a very strong personality and would always stand up for myself, which isn’t considered a good trait, either. For 6 years, I tried really hard in dating. My friends even called me “Queen of first dates.” Until I went to the US to pursue my MA degree when I met my current bf. He made all my insecurities go away.

Is there any group that you feel like you can find a bf there? With group I mean academic, social or (sorry for saying this) racial. Like you say you had a white guy turn you down,  did you consider joining a group/event/community that has many black guys? I don’t mean racist here and I don’t understand much about black culture; I’m just saying targeting the right kind of guys may work. Like if you’re outgoing and extrovert, you may want to hang out with guys who are a bit shy (I mean if you like them). I always find opposites attract, but it’s just my personal experience.

Just one note. Don’t change yourself. If you feel happy doing what you’re doing, stick with it. You can’t change just to be in a relationship, as you’ll be finally feel sick in it. And even if you can’t find a bf, then be it. It’s just not worth changing who you are.

[janaca]

Thank you for this post. I don't have much to add except to say that I can relate, although my reasons for finding dating in grad school basically impossible are a bit different. I am 35 and a queer woman and just feel like I made the decision to have the career I want instead of a relationship when I committed to doing a PhD. I was single when I started grad school at 33, and have only been on a handful of awkward dates in the whole three years I've been back in school. For me, grad school just takes up so much time and energy, and the number of people I come into contact with at school-related activities close to my age with my same orientation is basically zero. Then when I go on dating sites, I sometimes meet fun people close to my age, but they're usually about to get their degrees and leave--while I still have at least three more years in my program--or else they have nice, stable jobs and want someone who can do fun things with them on evenings and weekends. And I'm thinking, evenings and weekends? What are those? It's hard. And it's really frustrating sometimes, especially when it seems like so many people around me--including queer faculty mentors--had no problems meeting partners in grad school, because they went at the "right" age. So I guess I just want to say that I get how dating in grad school can be really hard for a lot of people for all kinds of reasons. It's real, and it's not any sort of personal failure--although, for me at least, it often feels that way. Things we'll get better, though. You will find a relationship, if that's what you want. Sometimes it just takes a long time, and sometimes grad school can really throw a wrench in the process.

[Adelaide9216]

18 hours ago, Psygeek said:

I'm 25 and my 4.5 years relationship just finished. I'm honestly glad to be single again and not have to consider someone else in my life and career choices. Feel like I sacrificed too much over the last 2 years which could have propelled my career in some directions. Ugh.

Yeah, I guess that's the positive side of it. I feel grateful for having been able to do everything I wanted professionally speaking. I feel like if I was in a relationship, a lot of stuff that I wanted to do would've been compromised. However, I still wish I had someone close to support me through this along the way.  Isn't a partner supposed to support you when you want to achieve goals/dreams? 

[_Nomad_]

Well, first of all thank you for this post. Ive always had  thoughts and feelings similar to yours.  Wish we had right answers... In your very first post you asked if it is harder to find a partner for educated woman. I think that yes! More over, I feel like it is in general harder to make social connections for ppl who are academically "advanced"; it is less noticable in frendship department bcs of basic similarities (2 women or 2 men will (almost) always find what to talk about). When it comes to romantic relationship expectations are different and it is harder to find similarities...

 I myself am from mixed family, with parents who raised me with the idea that woman should be educated and independent. It's great, but we lived in country with conservative  mentality and both of parent's families are pretty traditional; so it's super weird and bad if you are not married after high school or at least before you 25y/o. Oh, and if you continue your education! Too bad. Funny fact about the country I lived (central asia) - as a tradition grooms there pay money for bride; so the higher is bride's education the smaller is the amount of money paid. I think PhD goes just for free or her parents pay ti the groom(sad smile).

I remember on my 2nd or 3rd year in university I decided to focus on study because my thirst for education and different way of thinking was always too much for guys around me. Being a minority doesn't help too. We are already in a specific social group and race/religion/ life style/life philosophy leaves even smaller percent of  interesting people. For me unfortunately, nothing really changed after moving to another part of the world. In fact, I am now even more isolated bcs I had to stop my education and career. Btw I'm turning 32 in May...ugh. I tried dating couple of times here. Last time it was 1 year... And it was too much for him. He was pretty supportive but at some point felt like competition - both of us planned to continue education- but he couldn't handle my little wins...

Good thing in your life tho - you are successful in a career you like. It is a gift being in the comfortable environment, surrounded by people sharing same interest and academic values.  It might just take more time to meet suitable partner. Because educated people like to analyse and overanalyze before making a decision

I also wanted to say - it is my very personal opinion based on own experience, so might be veeeery wrong- perhaps it is still not right time for someone special in your life (if we talk about real love)? Most of the time relationships connected with sacrifice. Maybe it's not what you need now. 

P.s. I'm sorry if I went off-topic and if some sentences doesn't make sense (still stragling with expressing thoughts in English). Your post really touched me, it echoed similar feelings and thoughts I have lately...

[PokePsych]

7 hours ago, Adelaide9216 said:

Yeah, I guess that's the positive side of it. I feel grateful for having been able to do everything I wanted professionally speaking. I feel like if I was in a relationship, a lot of stuff that I wanted to do would've been compromised. However, I still wish I had someone close to support me through this along the way.  Isn't a partner supposed to support you when you want to achieve goals/dreams? 

It's not about he didnt support them or me - coz he absolutely did. But it's also about us supporting each other - and that also means I can't ask him to sacrifice everything for me and my career goals. I still had a good thesis project - just not as great or cool as it could have been and I certainly missed out on opportunities to connect, network, and get some name value on my resume. 

I also didnt apply to some schools because of him - job opportunities, the area etc. Sacrifice is an essential part of every relationship I think. But I would make the same choices again.

[rising_star]

22 hours ago, Adelaide9216 said:

Yeah, I guess that's the positive side of it. I feel grateful for having been able to do everything I wanted professionally speaking. I feel like if I was in a relationship, a lot of stuff that I wanted to do would've been compromised. However, I still wish I had someone close to support me through this along the way.  Isn't a partner supposed to support you when you want to achieve goals/dreams? 

Honestly, I think some of the support you're looking for could come from having close friends, rather than a romantic partner. While I did date (and have multiple relationships) during my PhD program, the support I got professionally came primarily from a group of friends in my PhD program (some in my cohort, but mostly not). We supported one another when it came to grants, publications, developing research ideas, etc. 

In an ideal world, one's partner would be fully supportive of one's goals/dreams but, this isn't always the case. One of my graduate school relationships ended because my partner didn't want to accompany me for my fieldwork, even though I had sufficient funding to support us both for at least half of it. But, their unwillingness to be supportive of me became one of the reasons our relationship ended.

[ResilientDreams]

I know this is a really old thread, but I wanted to say that I relate to this so much. I am not a minority, but I have had people (including a male "friend" that I no longer speak to) tell me that because I'm so smart and so driven, I'm "scary". My response is always that it's their loss.

It does get really lonely sometimes though, and I wish I had someone to share all my passions with and who will stand by my side through life's changes. I know friends can do that too, but it's not the same as someone who has made a commitment to be a lasting part of your life. I know I don't need a partner. I've gotten this far without one, and I will have a smoother transition to grad school and a new city than someone in a relationship. But...I want one. I want someone to give myself fully to and to share all those moments with and build a life with. And it's just super frustrating that it's not working out, and that people are suggesting it's because of a core part of who I am (my academic ambitions). I will NEVER change who I am...but I don't want to be alone either.

I'm only 22, so I know it probably seems super ridiculous that I'm talking about this in such a dramatic way, but it's difficult especially when you see friends succeeding in their romantic life. It's hard not to compare and think that there is something fundamentally better about your friend, and something fundamentally deficient about you. I try to tell myself it's just a product of circumstance. I even downloaded a dating app because I thought all I needed was a little help actually meeting guys...got myself into an emotionally abusive four month relationship that way. My first relationship ever. So that didn't help my morale and it did teach me that I'm better off on my own than with the wrong person, but...I'm still hoping that right person will come along.

[Adelaide9216]

Thank you for your message.

My emotions aren't the best these days. I created this thread in November 2017 and my mental state has worsen regarding this. A guy I was dating asked me a few weeks ago if I could present him to a female friend. He basically said "you're brillant, beautiful, fun to be around but I don't love you."

I cannot count the number of times I've had men telling me something remotely similar to that.

You are good to remain hopeful. I have sincerely lost hope regarding this. I feel devastated and ashamed to be devastated over something like this, at my age. I don't know why it hurts so much.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Adelaide9216

[ResilientDreams]

@Adelaide9216

I think it's actually a perfectly reasonable thing to be upset about (even though sometimes I judge myself for feeling that way too). It's...a big thing. You're searching for a deep connection. And that connection can be hard to find when you're so deep yourself. I also think that was awfully rude of that guy to not only turn you down but ask you to introduce him to someone else. I'm really sorry that you've given up hope regarding this...but I sincerely hope all the effort you've poured into this pays off.

Sending you good internet vibes. ❤️ 

[MettaSutta]

On 3/26/2018 at 7:03 AM, Adelaide9216 said:

I am being misunderstood here. I am not talking about getting married. I am talking about having a relationship.

 

PS : I am the only person in my group of friends who has never been in a relationship. Most of my friends are parents, engaged or are in a relationship. 

30/F myself and hopelessly single.  I can definitely empathize with your situation as an educated WOC navigating romance.   I was in your boat at 25 as well.  Didn't have my first relationship (and was a virgin) until 28.  I wish I could tell you "it gets better", but, at least in my case it hasn't.  Last week I was rejected by a very promising guy because his parents didn't approve of me on account of our horoscopes not matching.  Such bullsh*t.  Taking time to recharge and focus on self-care has helped me get over the "almost relationships".