Switching to psychology in 30s

[Newbee2019]

Hi

 

I have a master's degree in computer science from a while ago. Been working for the past decade or so. I am interested in studying psychology out of interest and to switch careers. I believe that I can do master's degree to get some subject matter foundation before applying for PhD (I already have the basic prerequisites for master's covered such as introduction to psychology, intro stats).

 

I'm looking for universities in New York City area that have a master's program which can be a stepping stone to get into a good University for PhD later. I am concerned that NYU is hard to get in given my background (no research or psych related experience). How about teacher's college? Does it have good faculty/research/reputation? Also, considering master's in CUNY but I am not sure how much of a stepping stone it is in terms of quality of education and research experience and reputation when it comes to admission for PhD in a good Uni later on.

 

Any advice/direction is much appreciated!

 

[HAC]

Which subfield in psychology are you interested in applying to (e.g. clinical, developmental, cognitive)? I know several faculties in cognitive/neuroscience are very interested in computer scientists because their skills are relevant to computational neuroscience research. 

[Newbee2019]

@HACThanks for the response! I am interested in areas that fall under developmental and clinical. Also the traditional programming I am used to may be irrelevant to computational neuroscience research.

[HAC]

3 hours ago, Newbee2019 said:

@HACThanks for the response! I am interested in areas that fall under developmental and clinical. Also the traditional programming I am used to may be irrelevant to computational neuroscience research.

Oh alright. Do you have any mentors in mind already? Have you also considered looking for RA jobs? I think a big part of any strong psychology application is research experience. You can gain experience in a masters but it may also be possible by working in a lab for some time and building up your resume that way as well. 

[PokePsych]

Check potential labs you want to work in. Do you think you NEED a master's/post-bac or would lab experience be enough to give you that push to a PhD?

[PsyDuck90]

I agree with the others. Look at the pre-req courses for PhD programs and see if you have those courses. If not, then a master's is a good route. I would suggest CUNY. They are significantly cheaper than Teacher's College and NYU, and there are tons of research opportunities. Depending on your niche subject area, you can choose which CUNY would be most appropriate for your interests. John Jay is more forensically based, Queens college is more neuroscience heavy, etc. As far as your concern about prestige, CUNY is a very highly rated R1 research university (for reference, while Columbia is an R1, Teacher's College is an R2). CUNY carries a lot of weight in the psych field. 

If you have that pre-reqs, I would just look for paid RA positions. Columbia Medical Center hires a ton of RAs. You can look at the other hospitals in the city as well. The Manhattan VA also has a ton of research, so you can check out USAJobs.gov to see if they are hiring (although that process may take awhile). 

[t_ruth]

I came to my field (Ed Psych) after a career in an unrelated field and found it was a real benefit. I agree with all that PsyDGrad90 said. Also, you will have a better idea of your path once you have specific research questions you are interested in. A Masters can help give you time and exposure to come up with these questions, but it is expensive. For me, personally, I would love a student with a CS background (but I do work in ed tech). There may be other PIs who feel similarly in developmental and clinical (even outside of computational neuroscience).

[Romedy]

I made the switch from a business/sales career to psychology in my early 30s. I ended up having to go back and get a second undergrad degree in psychology, but this only took 4 semesters. I then applied for PhD programs, but did not receive a single interview, and so applied to and was accepted into a master's program. It took 2 more tries to gain admission to a PhD program after completing my master's degree. I'm currently 37 and a first year student in a clinical psychology PhD program.

Here are some things I learned (often the hard way!). I hope you find them helpful.

1. Research experience is the great equalizer. If you want to get into a PhD program in Psychology, get involved in a research lab, and preferably multiple labs, right now. Publications and posters count for quite a lot. Sure, GPA and GRE are important, but research is what gets you interviews and, subsequently, offers. Start thinking about questions that are interesting and meaningful to you. If you are having trouble with specific questions, then start with broad concepts. Read recent research papers with those keywords. As a general rule, you want to be included on at least one publication and have a few poster presentations when you apply for PhD programs. Again, this is a general rule. I got into a PhD program without a publication, for example.  I'll say more about this in point 4.

2. Do not place too much weight on your age. This one cuts both ways. I often worried that I was too old, wouldn't fit in, or graduate programs would be hesitant to accept a "old" person. I found, over the course of 3 application and interview phases, that programs valued my business background with respect to time management, leadership, and "big picture" approach to research and grants. However, I did feel that I spent more time during the interview process answering the "Why now?" question (when compared against my PhD interview peers; I made it a point to ask about their experiences).  My advice? Go out of your way to completely answer why you are making a career change in your personal statement. The more you can root this in recent academic experience, the better.

3. Don't expect your past academic history/performance to count for much. My first degree was in math. I was in the honors college and completed a senior thesis that was presented at a national conference. This essentially added nothing to my current PhD applications. Recent academic work, including GRE scores, are valued much more highly than past (<5 years) academic work. Many graduate programs required a psychology degree, so my math degree was not helpful. However, this provided me the opportunity to "prove" that I was every bit as good academically in my 30s as when I was 20.

4. Be ready to relocate. I understand wanting to stay in an area, but the reality of graduate work in psychology is you apply to a person more than to a program; this is especially true at the PhD level. I had to decide whether staying in one place was more important than chasing my goals/dreams. Your specific research interests may not be represented in New York City. Ultimately, if you have to stay put, then look up the faculty of local universities, catalog their research interests, and get involved in their research area. The potential problem here is that you may not be passionate/motivated in the research areas that are close to you.

5. Be prepared to get rejected. Psychology is competitive. Over the 5 years I applied to graduate programs (and got rejected 4 times), I felt that I kept getting older, but the other applicants stayed the same age. To translate, I was getting older and always competing against folks in their early-to-mid 20s. I followed-up with every single rejected application, asking for feedback and ways that I can improve. Then, over the subsequent year, I went out and improved that part of my application. I knew that a PhD program was the right thing for me and I was unwilling to accept some other kind of career. Use that as motivation and not frustration.

6. What is the specific job that you want? Now that you have read my novella, make sure that the degree you are seeking is consistent with the job you want. I was not sure from your post what field in psychology interests you and/or what specific job you want. You can then work your way backward and lay out a 5-7 year plan to make it happen.

I know this was quite long, but I hope it has helpful information. Best of luck!

[Newbee2019]

Thank you so much for all the valuable suggestions.

@Romedy Kudos to you for your perseverence! And thanks a ton for sharing the lessons you learned. Helps a lot!

@t_ruth Happy to hear a PI's POV. Thank you for piching in! I will reach out to faculty in my areas of interest :)

 @HACand @Psygeek - I will look into opportunities for hands-on research while I explore the Master's option. Thanks for the pointer.

@PsyDGrad90 I have zero background in psychology apart from a 101 and the first year undergrad level statistics/research methods course. Thats why I think a master's will help me get some solid subject matter foundation, sharpening my writing skills, working in the lab etc. It feels like I'd be swimming in the deep end if I were to jump straight into PhD without any background. Perhaps experience as RA in labs, as suggested above, might provide me with some boost. I'll certainly look into it. Thank you so much for information on CUNY and the R1 vs R2 research uni categorisation! 

[psychapplicant21]

On 11/7/2019 at 5:46 PM, Romedy said:

I made the switch from a business/sales career to psychology in my early 30s. I ended up having to go back and get a second undergrad degree in psychology, but this only took 4 semesters. I then applied for PhD programs, but did not receive a single interview, and so applied to and was accepted into a master's program. It took 2 more tries to gain admission to a PhD program after completing my master's degree. I'm currently 37 and a first year student in a clinical psychology PhD program.

Here are some things I learned (often the hard way!). I hope you find them helpful.

1. Research experience is the great equalizer. If you want to get into a PhD program in Psychology, get involved in a research lab, and preferably multiple labs, right now. Publications and posters count for quite a lot. Sure, GPA and GRE are important, but research is what gets you interviews and, subsequently, offers. Start thinking about questions that are interesting and meaningful to you. If you are having trouble with specific questions, then start with broad concepts. Read recent research papers with those keywords. As a general rule, you want to be included on at least one publication and have a few poster presentations when you apply for PhD programs. Again, this is a general rule. I got into a PhD program without a publication, for example.  I'll say more about this in point 4.

2. Do not place too much weight on your age. This one cuts both ways. I often worried that I was too old, wouldn't fit in, or graduate programs would be hesitant to accept a "old" person. I found, over the course of 3 application and interview phases, that programs valued my business background with respect to time management, leadership, and "big picture" approach to research and grants. However, I did feel that I spent more time during the interview process answering the "Why now?" question (when compared against my PhD interview peers; I made it a point to ask about their experiences).  My advice? Go out of your way to completely answer why you are making a career change in your personal statement. The more you can root this in recent academic experience, the better.

3. Don't expect your past academic history/performance to count for much. My first degree was in math. I was in the honors college and completed a senior thesis that was presented at a national conference. This essentially added nothing to my current PhD applications. Recent academic work, including GRE scores, are valued much more highly than past (<5 years) academic work. Many graduate programs required a psychology degree, so my math degree was not helpful. However, this provided me the opportunity to "prove" that I was every bit as good academically in my 30s as when I was 20.

4. Be ready to relocate. I understand wanting to stay in an area, but the reality of graduate work in psychology is you apply to a person more than to a program; this is especially true at the PhD level. I had to decide whether staying in one place was more important than chasing my goals/dreams. Your specific research interests may not be represented in New York City. Ultimately, if you have to stay put, then look up the faculty of local universities, catalog their research interests, and get involved in their research area. The potential problem here is that you may not be passionate/motivated in the research areas that are close to you.

5. Be prepared to get rejected. Psychology is competitive. Over the 5 years I applied to graduate programs (and got rejected 4 times), I felt that I kept getting older, but the other applicants stayed the same age. To translate, I was getting older and always competing against folks in their early-to-mid 20s. I followed-up with every single rejected application, asking for feedback and ways that I can improve. Then, over the subsequent year, I went out and improved that part of my application. I knew that a PhD program was the right thing for me and I was unwilling to accept some other kind of career. Use that as motivation and not frustration.

6. What is the specific job that you want? Now that you have read my novella, make sure that the degree you are seeking is consistent with the job you want. I was not sure from your post what field in psychology interests you and/or what specific job you want. You can then work your way backward and lay out a 5-7 year plan to make it happen.

I know this was quite long, but I hope it has helpful information. Best of luck!

This is a really important message - I'm not yet in my 30s but I think age does crop up a lot as a worry for applications, especially given the pressure to get accepted onto a Ph.D program as soon as you graduate college. I really enjoy reading posts from applicants who have decided to change their career and apply to Psychology. Changing careers is extremely brave and I think it's great that more people are talking about this. Experience is so important and often overlooked. I decided not to apply for this round of applications to allow myself more time to gain additional research experience and think about what specifically I am interested in. How can we be expected to know exactly what area we want to research for the rest of our careers if we have only had limited research experience in one or two labs? I have three years experience doing very different research projects - some of these research questions I was fascinated by and other research areas that I thought I was interested in changed after working in this area. All experience is POSITIVE because it helps you figure out what you want (and don't want) which is equally as important.

Thank you for sharing. 

[Arcadian]

Hey, I did the opposite! Got a BA in psychology, then a PhD in neuroscience, and now I work in software development.

[Newbee2019]

All,

Thank you for your valuable feedback.

I have started looking at research opportunities. I totally appreciate the value of research experience in helping me narrow down my area(s) of interest but while I seek such opportunities in a very competitive environment, I want to get a Master's degree to gain a broad foundational knowledge as well. I have a question about Teachers College M.A. programs in Clinical Psychology and Developmental Psychology. It appears that both programs have topics that are of interest to me, in terms of both courses as well as faculty research areas. Both programs have a fairly flexible structure i.e. ability to take courses from other programs. I think I can get the foundational knowledge through either of these programs to supplement the research experience.

I am looking for insight into which program is easier to get into, given my non-traditional background and no research experience (so far).

Edit: I am assuming here that if I apply for one and dont get through, then the chances of getting into the other program during the following semester is low/close to zero. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Happy Holidays!

Edited December 24, 2019 by Newbee2019

[t_ruth]

The reputation for Teachers College is mixed. From my understanding, they are a bit of degree mill, so let in almost anyone. That said, there are also amazing faculty and so a degree from there can be a strength (it just depends on what you took, who you worked with, and other elements of your application). In general, clinical is usually more competitive than developmental. What is your ultimate career goal? What research questions do you have?

[PokePsych]

I think before deciding on clinical/developmental. Do you want to be a clinician? If yes, know that this is the hardesr area to get accepted in and not a certainty. You would probably need a lot more than a masters for that area. 

Be certain about the questions you like to answer (i.e. research interest), including theoretical approaches. This will probably require a lot of reading, but I would definitely work that out before committing to anything

[jmm0548]

Would other's suggest applying for a Master's program at an institution where you would then hope to matriculate into the PhD program?

[Clinapp2017]

1 hour ago, jmm0548 said:

Would other's suggest applying for a Master's program at an institution where you would then hope to matriculate into the PhD program?

It's happened in my program for some students, but I would not in any way bet on that happening. It's the exception, not the norm. 

[t_ruth]

5 hours ago, jmm0548 said:

Would other's suggest applying for a Master's program at an institution where you would then hope to matriculate into the PhD program?

Depends on the field. In my field, we love when our MS students stay for the PhD, because we invest a lot in them and it is great to have continuity. This of course assumes they do well in the MS. It's a good proving ground.

[PsyDuck90]

5 hours ago, jmm0548 said:

Would other's suggest applying for a Master's program at an institution where you would then hope to matriculate into the PhD program?

It really depends. As Clinapp2017 said, for clinical it really is an exception rather than the rule. The school I did my masters at has a very sought after PhD program in a very desirable city, and they put a cap on the number of alum/current MA students they would even interview for the PhD program because they wanted outsiders. 

[PsychPhdBound]

I just finished my first interview visit and will say, at least at this program, everyone was SOOOOO young. So that's definitely something to be aware of ?

[PsyDuck90]

Yeah, the vast majority will be in their early to mid 20s. I'm about to turn 30 as a 2nd year, and I am one of the older people in my whole program.

One thing to consider about age is opportunity cost. A doctorate takes 5-7 years to complete, at which time you make next to nothing. Early career psychologists start out at around $75-80k once licensed. If you are starting this process at an older age, this may delay your ability to save for retirement and start a family (especially for females). This is just something to consider when factoring the career change. Plus, it isn't uncommon to have to move at least once during the process if pursuing clinical especially (grad school, internship, and post-doc are all possible moves). 

[y3ying]

@Romedy Your post is very informative! Just wondering if you could expand on how you've completed the undergrad degree in just four terms? Was there a lot credits you were able to transfer to apply towards the bachelors psych degree? Thanks!

[Romedy]

On 2/28/2022 at 5:50 PM, y3ying said:

@Romedy Your post is very informative! Just wondering if you could expand on how you've completed the undergrad degree in just four terms? Was there a lot credits you were able to transfer to apply towards the bachelors psych degree? Thanks!

Roughly half of the credits from my first degree (B.S. in Mathematics) transferred and were counted toward my second degree (B.A. in Psychology). I had a long meeting with an academic advisor who specialized in non-traditional students transferring credits, which helped greatly. Still, I averaged 14 credit hours / semester to complete in 2 years. Was not the easiest thing, but was worth it.