Venting Thread - 2019 Applicants

[Ikari Gendo]

1 hour ago, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

Last night I dreamt that I had an 'Admissions Decision' letter from CUNY in my inbox. I woke up before I could read what it said. The wait is clearly getting to me.

A few days ago, I had a similar dream, getting an e-mail from Kit Fine. Was not able to read it as well.

Now I leave my phone exactly where it was in my dream, when I go to bed.

[strongkleeneevalscheme]

2 hours ago, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

That sounds like a fair assessment.

If it's any consolation, I have been absolutely wiped out - not even a waitlist - on all Top 10 programs other than NYU and Columbia. Stanford, Pitt, Berkeley, UCLA, Yale and Harvard all seem to have passed me over. If you have even a waitlist from one of these programs, then you're doing better than me. The silver lining is that none of these schools are particularly good fits, and that every school (excepting CUNY and NYU, from which I haven't yet heard) at which I have a strong POI has accepted me. Then again, so far those have all been schools outside the Top 10. So I have no idea whether to be optimistic or pessimistic about what I'm about to hear.

It's very hard for me to judge how I would have gelled with a number of these departments, which is part of the reason that this constricting sensation is so unnerving. Granted, the bulk of my independent studies and research, including my writing sample, was decidedly historical in nature, which seems to put me at odds with a formally rigorous department like MIT or Rutgers. However, I think it's fair to say that this reflects, in large part, the resources I had access to as an undergraduate, and it goes without saying that I did not select my alma mater with a philosophical career in mind. While I admit that on paper, my research interests surely appear more compatible with the more traditional concept-analysis style of good old fashioned philosophizing that you can see all over the roster at Berkeley and Pittsburgh, than with the logician-philosophers at, say, USC, I really did attempt to stress in my applications that I adored all of my work in philosophical logic and attempted to make use of every opportunity I had to advance my studies in that direction. In fact, I'd say that the reason I focused my research in my last year of undergrad on a historical program, rather than engaging with more recent formal philosophy, has more to do with confidence than with motivation or, dare I say, talent. Of course, my studies went well off the beaten path, but I was careful not to go too far astray from the areas of competence of my mentors at my college, and I feel like this apprehension ended up closing some doors for me in ways I didn't expect. I don't exactly regret anything, and actually doubt I'd change much of my undergrad experience. It's just a little frustrating to simultaneously know how much of this process relies on a compounding series of small things that are mostly out of my control, and yet still feel like I should have somehow known to allocate my time differently. Mostly I'm bummed I won't get to work with Stephen Yablo... What a hunk ? 

Hope you don't mind the little blogwork, but this is the venting thread after all! 

EDIT: Realized immediately after posting this how stupid I was to call my undergrad experience anything but wondrously eye-opening and totally transformative. I really should get a cup of coffee already and stop complaining about being exposed to 'the wrong kind' of late 20th century analytic philosophy of language. For all I know, I could have ended up doing marketing psychology if not for the sheer luck of meeting a score of incredible teachers and peers, and falling in love with an entire world of letters that I had no real reason to ever know existed. Sorry for the absurd self-pity, my devoted readers!

Edited March 3, 2020 by strongkleeneevalscheme

[ShadyCarnot]

15 minutes ago, strongkleeneevalscheme said:

It's very hard for me to judge how I would have gelled with a number of these departments, which is part of the reason that this constricting sensation is so unnerving. Granted, the bulk of my independent studies and research, including my writing sample, was decidedly historical in nature, which seems to put me at odds with a formally rigorous department like MIT or Rutgers. However, I think it's fair to say that this reflects, in large part, the resources I had access to as an undergraduate, and it goes without saying that I did not select my alma mater with a philosophical career in mind. While I admit that on paper, my research interests surely appear more compatible with the more traditional concept-analysis style of good old fashioned philosophizing that you can see all over the roster at Berkeley and Pittsburgh, than with the logician-philosophers at, say, USC, I really did attempt to stress in my applications that I adored all of my work in philosophical logic and attempted to make use of every opportunity I had to advance my studies in that direction. In fact, I'd say that the reason I focused my research in my last year of undergrad on a historical program, rather than engaging with more recent formal philosophy, has more to do with confidence than with motivation or, dare I say, talent. Of course, my studies went well off the beaten path, but I was careful not to go too far astray from the areas of competence of my mentors at my college, and I feel like this apprehension ended up closing some doors for me in ways I didn't expect. I don't exactly regret anything, and actually doubt I'd change much of my undergrad experience. It's just a little frustrating to simultaneously know how much of this process relies on a compounding series of small things that are mostly out of my control, and yet still feel like I should have somehow known to allocate my time differently. Mostly I'm bummed I won't get to work with Stephen Yablo... What a hunk ? 

Hope you don't mind the little blogwork, but this is the venting thread after all! 

EDIT: Realized immediately after posting this how stupid I was to call my undergrad experience anything but wondrously eye-opening and totally transformative. I really should get a cup of coffee already and stop complaining about being exposed to 'the wrong kind' of late 20th century analytic philosophy of language. For all I know, I could have ended up doing marketing psychology if not for the sheer luck of meeting a score of incredible teachers and peers, and falling in love with an entire world of letters that I had no real reason to ever know existed. Sorry for the absurd self-pity, my devoted readers!

vent! vent! vent!

[711fanatic]

1 hour ago, strongkleeneevalscheme said:

It's very hard for me to judge how I would have gelled with a number of these departments, which is part of the reason that this constricting sensation is so unnerving. Granted, the bulk of my independent studies and research, including my writing sample, was decidedly historical in nature, which seems to put me at odds with a formally rigorous department like MIT or Rutgers. However, I think it's fair to say that this reflects, in large part, the resources I had access to as an undergraduate, and it goes without saying that I did not select my alma mater with a philosophical career in mind. While I admit that on paper, my research interests surely appear more compatible with the more traditional concept-analysis style of good old fashioned philosophizing that you can see all over the roster at Berkeley and Pittsburgh, than with the logician-philosophers at, say, USC, I really did attempt to stress in my applications that I adored all of my work in philosophical logic and attempted to make use of every opportunity I had to advance my studies in that direction. In fact, I'd say that the reason I focused my research in my last year of undergrad on a historical program, rather than engaging with more recent formal philosophy, has more to do with confidence than with motivation or, dare I say, talent. Of course, my studies went well off the beaten path, but I was careful not to go too far astray from the areas of competence of my mentors at my college, and I feel like this apprehension ended up closing some doors for me in ways I didn't expect. I don't exactly regret anything, and actually doubt I'd change much of my undergrad experience. It's just a little frustrating to simultaneously know how much of this process relies on a compounding series of small things that are mostly out of my control, and yet still feel like I should have somehow known to allocate my time differently. Mostly I'm bummed I won't get to work with Stephen Yablo... What a hunk ? 

Hope you don't mind the little blogwork, but this is the venting thread after all! 

EDIT: Realized immediately after posting this how stupid I was to call my undergrad experience anything but wondrously eye-opening and totally transformative. I really should get a cup of coffee already and stop complaining about being exposed to 'the wrong kind' of late 20th century analytic philosophy of language. For all I know, I could have ended up doing marketing psychology if not for the sheer luck of meeting a score of incredible teachers and peers, and falling in love with an entire world of letters that I had no real reason to ever know existed. Sorry for the absurd self-pity, my devoted readers!

Very wholesome post, I am sure wherever you end up going will allow you to continue falling in love with the world of letters  

[lifeofpipi]

I graduated last year and am applying to MA programs right now while working full time. Really hope that I could go back to school this fall and am quite anxious about the results...  am on the waitlist at Simon Fraser currently and fingers crossed that I get off it and/or receive acceptances elsewhere... Can't help checking the app portals and grad cafe multiple times every day while I'm in the office lol.

[legush]

3 hours ago, lifeofpipi said:

I graduated last year and am applying to MA programs right now while working full time. Really hope that I could go back to school this fall and am quite anxious about the results...  am on the waitlist at Simon Fraser currently and fingers crossed that I get off it and/or receive acceptances elsewhere... Can't help checking the app portals and grad cafe multiple times every day while I'm in the office lol.

Same mate. I applied to a bunch of MAs in Canada and got into York, Ryerson, Western, Carleton, and got wait-listed today at SFU. Still waiting to hear back from UofT, Victoria, and Queens. If I get into SFU and UofT, it's going to be a difficult decision between those two and Western (and to some extent York since their funding is very good).

[lifeofpipi]

43 minutes ago, legush said:

Same mate. I applied to a bunch of MAs in Canada and got into York, Ryerson, Western, Carleton, and got wait-listed today at SFU. Still waiting to hear back from UofT, Victoria, and Queens. If I get into SFU and UofT, it's going to be a difficult decision between those two and Western (and to some extent York since their funding is very good).

congrats on the acceptances! SFU is the only Canadian program I applied to. My top choice is Tufts. Idk how exactly SFU compares to Tufts and I know that each program's evaluation process is a bit different, but my sense is that applications to Tufts are more competitive than SFU. Now I'm quite worried that I won't get into Tufts given that I'm waitlisted at SFU. The wait is driving me nuts

[twillow]

I have a few acceptances luckily, but I'm pretty upset at the criminally low stipends being offered. I'm looking at you California. So anyway I'll probably be passing on one of my top choice programs (UC Irvine) because there is no way I could afford to live there.

[Flossifer]

What are the stipends for the programs you're referring to?

[you'll_never_get_to_heaven]

I feel like a bit of a jerk in saying this, but it's a vent thread so I will: sometimes I see the work current grad students are putting out (at conferences, or informally in some way if I use my tuition benefit from my job, etc.), and I do not believe that I wouldn't deliver far better and relevant work if I had access to the same resources with a fully-funded offer. They are safer students, not better students. I refrained from referencing any sob story in my applications about this or that event during my undergrad, and sometimes I feel like I should've done so because those events do have a significant influence on my scholarly work. It just seemed smarmy to do so, but if would've landed me a fully funded offer - shit, I would've done it. I didn't graduate from a pedigree school (although it is an excellent SLAC), but our external reviewers told the dept chair that we had the strongest group of majors of any school in our college association. I didn't think my department chair would be all that surprised that I didn't get into X or Y school, but his response was shock and some anger. He even asked who else wrote letters for me! 

[Ikari Gendo]

"They are safer students, not better students."

This plays a huge part, you cannot overestimate its importance for some programs, if not all.

Especially given that they will be "pouring" some financial resources to people who they admit. They (rightly) expect some kind of results at the end, whether publications in top tier journals or whatever. They can have a reliable expectation from safer students, but not from better and not "safer" ones.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Ikari Gendo

[711fanatic]

27 minutes ago, you'll_never_get_to_heaven said:

I feel like a bit of a jerk in saying this, but it's a vent thread so I will: sometimes I see the work current grad students are putting out (at conferences, or informally in some way if I use my tuition benefit from my job, etc.), and I do not believe that I wouldn't deliver far better and relevant work if I had access to the same resources with a fully-funded offer. They are safer students, not better students. I refrained from referencing any sob story in my applications about this or that event during my undergrad, and sometimes I feel like I should've done so because those events do have a significant influence on my scholarly work. It just seemed smarmy to do so, but if would've landed me a fully funded offer - shit, I would've done it. I didn't graduate from a pedigree school (although it is an excellent SLAC), but our external reviewers told the dept chair that we had the strongest group of majors of any school in our college association. I didn't think my department chair would be all that surprised that I didn't get into X or Y school, but his response was shock and some anger. He even asked who else wrote letters for me! 

 

19 minutes ago, Ikari Gendo said:

"They are safer students, not better students."

This plays a huge part, you cannot overestimate its importance for some programs, if not all.

Especially given that they will be "pouring" some financial resources to people who they admit. They (rightly) expect some kind of results at the end, whether publications in top tier journals or whatever. They can have a reliable expectation from safer students, but not from better and not "safer" ones.

The safer vs. better thing makes a lot of sense. What would you say a "safe" student looks like to a school, vs. a better student that is riskier?

[Ikari Gendo]

10 minutes ago, 711fanatic said:

 

The safer vs. better thing makes a lot of sense. What would you say a "safe" student looks like to a school, vs. a better student that is riskier?

Any department that funds a student for his or her time during the program expects certain things: (At least) Decent TA'ship (which requires good people skills), high potential/skills in philosophy (so he or she can produce quality academic work such as articles etc.) etc.

A student that meets such criterion can be taken to be a "safe" student, in the sense that it is likely that the student can meet these expectations.

On the other hand, if the person has superb potential/skills in philosophy, but terrible people skills (so his/her being a TA might yield problems), the department has almost no reason to take the risk.

While this might sound quite cold-blooded, at the end, it is a trade or an investment: The department provides certain things and expects the student to provide some kind of yield.

Though note that I am a non-US grad student, so this might be completely wrong. Just speaking from experience as a person who got rejected from the master's program of the department I got my undergraduate degree.

Also: Do not miss that I have been rejected from 4 programs that I have applied so far. It is quite likely that my SoP and/or writing sample is not of the quality I thought they were or that simply my people skills are not good enough to be there.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Ikari Gendo

[sisyphushappy]

Finally got that sweet, sweet Cornell rejection. I wish I’d reflected more thoughtfully on where to apply, and also applied to more than six schools.

After applying to a few admittedly poor fits, CUNY and Columbia are my last two pending. They’re somewhat better fits. I am dying for news.

[HopOnMyCrates]

On 3/3/2020 at 11:40 AM, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

Do you think you'd accept CUNY over UT? I'm also excited (and hopeful) about CUNY, but the truth is that their placement record isn't particularly compelling, especially given their top-15 ranking.

Current CUNY GC student here. While I've only been here for a year, I've talked with a number of more senior students and there are a couple of factors that, while they may not entirely exculpate CUNY's less-than-stellar placement record, do give some explanations. First is that a significant number of PhD students are international students-- I'd say at least 1 in 3. Couple that with the financial stress of living in NYC on a graduate student stipend and it can cause people to leave before finishing the dissertation. Differently, those who are not dissuaded by this may get caught up with teaching extra courses at the expense of neglecting writing their dissertation. These two types of cases in mind, it is not entirely easy to place people in jobs when they don't actually get their PhDs. Another difficulty is that some of the program's key areas, Phil of Logic+Math, Mind, and Language, and of course the pull that Carroll et al. have for Aesthetics, have not been areas that hire as frequently as, say, Ethics, Social Phil, and Political Phil (just doing some cursory looking at https://www.aerodatalab.org/philjobs-trends ). It might be the case that CUNY is not preparing competitive applicants for these less popular areas compared to other schools with similar strengths. On that, however, I can't say much -- they're not my AOSes so I don't really keep up with those hires/trends.

When CUNY does finally send out decisions, people on here can feel free to message me with any questions about the program and I'll do my best to answer. There will be a prospective students day in early April, so hopefully y'all get your decisions sooner rather than later in order to make the appropriate travel arrangements.

[Estudiante Graduado]

On 3/3/2020 at 10:40 AM, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

Do you think you'd accept CUNY over UT? I'm also excited (and hopeful) about CUNY, but the truth is that their placement record isn't particularly compelling, especially given their top-15 ranking.

It's not clear to me that the UT placement record is that much better than CUNY's. In fact, if you look at the people who ARE successfully placed at CUNY, most of them are in your AOI, so I wouldn't let that weigh TOO heavily on you. I hope you hear something from them. I'm pretty excited about having gotten into CUNY after thinking I was going to get shut out of the top 15 (also waitlisted at UNC), but I'm still considering my options.

[malaphor]

Does anyone have any insight about movement on a funding waitlist? I've been admitted to Georgetown (one of my top choices, a very good fit for my aoi) but waitlisted for funding. I've only heard of one funded offer from them, this cycle. I understand that my offer, as it stands, is basically another version of a waitlist, but I'm pretty anxious to know more about how this works if only to get some sense of the odds that I may end up with a funded offer there. Or just some data, if anyone has it. 

[711fanatic]

7 minutes ago, malaphor said:

Does anyone have any insight about movement on a funding waitlist? I've been admitted to Georgetown (one of my top choices, a very good fit for my aoi) but waitlisted for funding. I've only heard of one funded offer from them, this cycle. I understand that my offer, as it stands, is basically another version of a waitlist, but I'm pretty anxious to know more about how this works if only to get some sense of the odds that I may end up with a funded offer there. Or just some data, if anyone has it. 

One of 6! Congrats on that. I don't know anything about their funding situation, but I am personally outraged that they accepted 6/170 of their applicants and can't even offer y'all funding. Good luck!

[sisyphushappy]

Saw that two CUNY acceptances went out!  

[malaphor]

1 hour ago, 711fanatic said:

One of 6! Congrats on that. I don't know anything about their funding situation, but I am personally outraged that they accepted 6/170 of their applicants and can't even offer y'all funding. Good luck!

Thank you! They certainly have funding, they offer 5-6 assistantships a year. I don't know what they're playing at. I wonder if they are waiting for a self-selecting outcome. As in, how many people accept other offers and who sticks around. It is painful. 

[UndergradDad]

711fanatic, 

My understanding is that programs sometimes are given more assistantships some years than others depending on the funding they are given from year to year ( I spoke with a professor about this at a program over the phone (not Georgetown) ).  Then they might have to go back to fight for the extra ones they want so can't promise them until they either get a final okay or are shut down on the extra funding.

[Coconuts&Chloroform]

Not venting, just passing time here:

Any historians of modern philosophy have any thoughts on Spinoza's view of the semantics of proper names? In a letter to Simon de Vries, March 1663 (see Spinoza, Ethics, ed. Feldman, Hackett 1992 p. 267), Spinoza offers the following cryptic remarks:

However, you want me to explain by example - though it is not at all necessary - how one and the same thing can be signified by two names. Not to appear ungenerous, I will give you two examples. First, by 'Israel' is meant the third patriarch; by 'Jacob' is meant that same person, the latter name given to him because he seized his brother's heel...

Now I'm not entirely sure what to make of this. Prima facie, it seems as though Spinoza is advancing some kind of descriptive theory of names, since he takes care to articulate different descriptions associated with each of the two names. On the other hand, he says that the meaning of 'Jacob' is that same person as the meaning of 'Israel'. Clearly on this view the terms share the same meaning, and their meaning just is their referent - that same person. So what are we to make of Spinoza's theory of proper names, here? Is it a descriptivist theory, or was Spinoza a Millian avant la lettre?

[sisyphushappy]

Venting ahead? I’m starting to feel less hopeful lately. I’ve only got two schools left to hear from, after one waitlist and three rejections. 

I had a 3.52 UG GPA and a pretty bad quant score on the GRE. My letters and writing sample are probably quite good, considering the waitlist result. Had lots of awards too. I was pre-med for several years, which was a GPA-killing disaster, but I worked hard as hell to repair my GPA and used to be quite proud that I pushed it back over the 3.5 hump.

I hate the feeling of knowing that even in the best circumstances, I am a candidate that everyone looking at my apps likely had huge hesitations about. Have you experienced imposter syndrome? It feels terrible knowing that there is quantitative evidence that I’m not wrong in feeling that way.

I have a miserable post-UG job and want to go to grad school more than anything. While I know I’ll be okay if I have to reapply next year, I am dreading being shutout.

The anticipatory despair is overwhelming, but I guess it’s also motivation to never be a “risky” candidate for anything ever again. I can at least improve my GRE and continue sitting in on classes at my alma mater.

P.S. I hear all the cool kids are declining their Northwestern offers.

[Olórin]

1 hour ago, sisyphushappy said:

Venting ahead? I’m starting to feel less hopeful lately. I’ve only got two schools left to hear from, after one waitlist and three rejections. 

I had a 3.52 UG GPA and a pretty bad quant score on the GRE. My letters and writing sample are probably quite good, considering the waitlist result. Had lots of awards too. I was pre-med for several years, which was a GPA-killing disaster, but I worked hard as hell to repair my GPA and used to be quite proud that I pushed it back over the 3.5 hump.

I hate the feeling of knowing that even in the best circumstances, I am a candidate that everyone looking at my apps likely had huge hesitations about. Have you experienced imposter syndrome? It feels terrible knowing that there is quantitative evidence that I’m not wrong in feeling that way.

I have a miserable post-UG job and want to go to grad school more than anything. While I know I’ll be okay if I have to reapply next year, I am dreading being shutout.

The anticipatory despair is overwhelming, but I guess it’s also motivation to never be a “risky” candidate for anything ever again. I can at least improve my GRE and continue sitting in on classes at my alma mater.

P.S. I hear all the cool kids are declining their Northwestern offers.

I tend to think people have a look at transcripts (not just GPA). They can tell a lot from those. An especially good sign is when grades improve over time. An especially bad sign is when a 4.0 is earned by taking dud classes.

Funny enough, my position was similar to yours. I had a job for several years after UG, which ended up being an excellent experience before grad school. Saving money didn't hurt either.

I also had a 3.4 GPA in college (I didn't learn about grad school until my senior year, so I thought grades meant nothing until that point). And I was shut out the first time I applied. Everything turned out fine eventually, aside from the fact that I now dream about having benefits again. But really, I had time to accumulate furniture and amenities for a full apartment over several years before grad school, and my home life is COMFY because of that.

Also, a lot of programs really don't prioritize the GRE quant score (fewer and fewer programs even prioritize any part of the GRE; they seem to be recognizing...finally...that a GRE score is a pretty good metric for assessing how one performed on the GRE, but a pretty bad metric for predicting how successful one will be in a graduate program).

Just saying that if you're an imposter, then I am too. But, uh, I'm definitely not an imposter, and neither are you. You'd be amazed how messy people's transcripts are, and how varied their other quantitative metrics are.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Olórin

[Mischief]

1 hour ago, sisyphushappy said:

Venting ahead? I’m starting to feel less hopeful lately. I’ve only got two schools left to hear from, after one waitlist and three rejections. 

I had a 3.52 UG GPA and a pretty bad quant score on the GRE. My letters and writing sample are probably quite good, considering the waitlist result. Had lots of awards too. I was pre-med for several years, which was a GPA-killing disaster, but I worked hard as hell to repair my GPA and used to be quite proud that I pushed it back over the 3.5 hump.

I hate the feeling of knowing that even in the best circumstances, I am a candidate that everyone looking at my apps likely had huge hesitations about. Have you experienced imposter syndrome? It feels terrible knowing that there is quantitative evidence that I’m not wrong in feeling that way.

I have a miserable post-UG job and want to go to grad school more than anything. While I know I’ll be okay if I have to reapply next year, I am dreading being shutout.

The anticipatory despair is overwhelming, but I guess it’s also motivation to never be a “risky” candidate for anything ever again. I can at least improve my GRE and continue sitting in on classes at my alma mater.

P.S. I hear all the cool kids are declining their Northwestern offers.

Hey Sisyphus,

I absolutely recognize this feeling and feel it most days, if not a few times a day (even in my MA, where I frequently wonder when everyone will catch on that they made a huge mistake by admitting me). My undergraduate cumulative GPA was about a 3.2, and I have an F and a mix of ILL and INC marks in one year that I had health problems peak. My view of myself when I'm feeling down is basically as you describe: why would any committee pick me rather than people who have no grade lower than an A (4.0) on their transcript? How could anyone on admissions committee take a chance on me or be willing to go bat for me when I am such a fuck up! I can imagine that if you're already feeling this way, a shitty job will make you feel worse.

All of this said, I hope you have taken some solace in the fact that you made the waitlist at Northwestern and that, regardless of whether you start a program in the Fall, you will take this as an indication of your viability as a candidate. It is not unreasonable to think that people with consistent and higher grades than you, and with higher Quant scores than you, were rejected, which can give you some indication that your undergraduate background + GRE scores don't determine whether you will get in somewhere (this year or next).