GRExit Thread

[PsychApplicant2]

10 minutes ago, EileanDonan said:

Honestly, I have to wonder what would happen if we all (non-psych included) collectively refused to take and/or send in our scores to programs. Would that be enough of a final push against the GRE, or would schools just shrug and not accept students for a year? Sigh.

Haha! I don't know, but the list of programs waiving the GRE continues to grow!  

[justacigar]

I posted about #GRExit over at Student Doctor Network to gauge faculty reactions to the GRE no longer being a requirement and I have to say, I've changed my tune a bit about the usefulness of the GRE. One person had a really great point that the GRE can be a way to offset other areas where resources were low, i.e. attendance at a small undergraduate university with little opportunity for lab positions or posters/pubs. I always saw the GRE as a barrier to folks with low resources, which I still believe is the case, but now have an additional perspective about when the GRE shows utility. Opportunities to engage in research look vastly different dependent on location. The GRE could help show evidence of academic fitness to offset low opportunities elsewhere. Other people mentioned that the GRE does in fact predict grad school outcomes, contrary to what I've heard before.  

I think the real problem lies within the price gouging of ETS, and the ridiculous amount of money applicants have to spend on application materials (not just the GRE but also app fees, transcripts, interview costs, etc.) - it makes me wonder, if the GRE wasn't so damn expensive, would we still have the same visceral hatred for it? 

[Mickey26]

UGuelph "IMPORTANT: The GRE will not be accepted for Fall 2021 applications." https://www.uoguelph.ca/psychology/graduate/ccap/admissions (Finally updated their website LOL)

**of note, all of UGuelph's psych programs are not accepting GRE scores this application. 

 

UTSC Clinical "***UPDATE July 2020***: Applicants applying in the 2021-22 admissions cycle will not be required to submit GRE scores (general or subject tests scores) when applying to the MA or PhD program." https://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/psych/admissions-how-apply

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Mickey26

[Bald Academic]

Does anyone have any information about University of Minnesota in regards to GRE requirement?

[justacigar]

1 hour ago, Mickey26 said:

UGuelph "IMPORTANT: The GRE will not be accepted for Fall 2021 applications." https://www.uoguelph.ca/psychology/graduate/ccap/admissions (Finally updated their website LOL)

**of note, all of UGuelph's psych programs are not accepting GRE scores this application. 

 

UTSC Clinical "***UPDATE July 2020***: Applicants applying in the 2021-22 admissions cycle will not be required to submit GRE scores (general or subject tests scores) when applying to the MA or PhD program." https://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/psych/admissions-how-apply

 

Not accepting vs not required is such a huge difference. Would be so great if more programs followed suit this cycle!

[PsychApplicant2]

8 minutes ago, justacigar said:

Not accepting vs not required is such a huge difference. Would be so great if more programs followed suit this cycle!

Agreed. Not required is basically saying "we can't force you to take the GREs but we're still going to favor students who submit scores." I only know of one clinical psych program in America that doesn't accept them.

Edited July 7, 2020 by PsychApplicant2

[higaisha]

5 hours ago, justacigar said:

I posted about #GRExit over at Student Doctor Network to gauge faculty reactions to the GRE no longer being a requirement and I have to say, I've changed my tune a bit about the usefulness of the GRE. One person had a really great point that the GRE can be a way to offset other areas where resources were low, i.e. attendance at a small undergraduate university with little opportunity for lab positions or posters/pubs. I always saw the GRE as a barrier to folks with low resources, which I still believe is the case, but now have an additional perspective about when the GRE shows utility. Opportunities to engage in research look vastly different dependent on location. The GRE could help show evidence of academic fitness to offset low opportunities elsewhere. Other people mentioned that the GRE does in fact predict grad school outcomes, contrary to what I've heard before.  

I think the real problem lies within the price gouging of ETS, and the ridiculous amount of money applicants have to spend on application materials (not just the GRE but also app fees, transcripts, interview costs, etc.) - it makes me wonder, if the GRE wasn't so damn expensive, would we still have the same visceral hatred for it? 

I think those are all arguments for making it optional and not banning it outright, and the fact that those arguments are helping programs justify making it mandatory is unfair. The evidence i've seen for the predictive utility of the GRE was weak, and weak/mixed validity is seen across disciplines (bio, physics). The most it can (almost) do is predict grad GPA, which is basically irrelevant in the greater scheme of academic accomplishment. Tbh even if it was free, people should only take the GRE if they want to, and it makes perfect sense to supplement a lower GPA/etc. Can you tell I hate this exam? LOL 

[Mickey26]

48 minutes ago, justacigar said:

Not accepting vs not required is such a huge difference. Would be so great if more programs followed suit this cycle!

Absolutely agree 110%. Myself and other graduate students are currently advocating for "not accepting scores at all." But my institution hasn't even made a decision yet! *fingers crossed* There is still hope!

[Dazen]

I might be in the minority on this one, but I really hope most schools don't move to "not accepting" to Psych GRE. It's a huge help for those of us who don't come from a psych academic background and want to bolster our applications beyond the few required psych courses. Would be totally fine with it being optional though.

[justacigar]

12 hours ago, higaisha said:

I think those are all arguments for making it optional and not banning it outright, and the fact that those arguments are helping programs justify making it mandatory is unfair. The evidence i've seen for the predictive utility of the GRE was weak, and weak/mixed validity is seen across disciplines (bio, physics). The most it can (almost) do is predict grad GPA, which is basically irrelevant in the greater scheme of academic accomplishment. Tbh even if it was free, people should only take the GRE if they want to, and it makes perfect sense to supplement a lower GPA/etc. Can you tell I hate this exam? LOL 

I definitely agree with your points, and I'm right there with you. Studying for the GRE was the bane of my existence, and I don't think the quant section is relevant for psych except for the teeny tiny portion of statistics questions. It's just a lot more complicated than I originally thought. I'm concerned that leaving it as optional might still have negative consequences like we've been contemplating on this thread if faculty end up favoring applicants that submit scores. UGH it's just a clusterfuck. 

[justacigar]

10 hours ago, EmpatheticMastermind said:

I might be in the minority on this one, but I really hope most schools don't move to "not accepting" to Psych GRE. It's a huge help for those of us who don't come from a psych academic background and want to bolster our applications beyond the few required psych courses. Would be totally fine with it being optional though.

I definitely can't imagine they would totally remove the Psych GRE as an optional submission for exactly that reason. It would be really cool if programs that usually require the Psych GRE move to having it as optional! I wonder how much more competitive programs like UCSD/SDSU will be this year as people take advantage of the fact the Psych GRE is optional this year. The pool of applicants could be huge! 

[PsychApplicant2]

1 hour ago, justacigar said:

I definitely agree with your points, and I'm right there with you. Studying for the GRE was the bane of my existence, and I don't think the quant section is relevant for psych except for the teeny tiny portion of statistics questions. It's just a lot more complicated than I originally thought. I'm concerned that leaving it as optional might still have negative consequences like we've been contemplating on this thread if faculty end up favoring applicants that submit scores. UGH it's just a clusterfuck. 

Currently dying over studying for quant right now, lol. I think the writing portion is important though (and usually psych majors do very well on that part) but we'll see.This year is definitely going to be interesting for admissions!

[Schy]

Just now, PsychApplicant2 said:

Currently dying over studying for quant right now, lol. I think the writing portion is important though (and usually psych majors do very well on that part) but we'll see.This year is definitely going to be interesting for admissions!

GregMAT is a wonderful source! I think there's some free stuff up on youtube, but to become a member and join his zoom classes its only 5 dollars a month. 

[PsychApplicant2]

7 minutes ago, Schy said:

GregMAT is a wonderful source! I think there's some free stuff up on youtube, but to become a member and join his zoom classes its only 5 dollars a month. 

It's funny you say that, because I'm on one of his zoom classes now. ?

[Schy]

10 minutes ago, PsychApplicant2 said:

It's funny you say that, because I'm on one of his zoom classes now. ?

LOLLLLL what a coincidence! I'm looking forward to going to my first! I only found out about him recently, I'm very happy there are people out there willing to help for almost no money at all. 

[EileanDonan]

45 minutes ago, PsychApplicant2 said:

Currently dying over studying for quant right now, lol. I think the writing portion is important though (and usually psych majors do very well on that part) but we'll see.This year is definitely going to be interesting for admissions!

I haven't heard of the writing section being particularly valued (as compared to the other sections), at least as a general rule. More so if you've already completed some kind of primary authorship. Perhaps some PI's appreciate it more than others? Certainly willing to hear evidence to the contrary, however, especially since that section was by far my best. ? Would be more than happy to see a revamping of the quant section, I never liked feeling I needed to learn "GRE math" as opposed to just, you know, actual math.

Edited July 7, 2020 by EileanDonan

[PsychApplicant2]

Just now, EileanDonan said:

I haven't heard of the writing section being particularly valued (as compared to the other sections), at least as a general rule. More so if you've already completed some kind of primary authorship. Perhaps some PI's appreciate it more than others? Certainly willing to hear evidence to the contrary, however, especially since that section was by far my best. ? Would be more than happy to see a revamping of the quant section, I never liked feeling I needed to learn "GRE math" as opposed to just, you know, actual math.

Oh I actually have no idea, I just was saying for Psych majors the writing section would probably be easier for us because we're so used to writing papers and such haha! And yeah, GRE math sucks. It's basically just "how quickly can you solve this problem that we're trying to trick you on?" I do like the stat questions at the end though. 

[Dazen]

23 minutes ago, EileanDonan said:

I haven't heard of the writing section being particularly valued (as compared to the other sections), at least as a general rule. More so if you've already completed some kind of primary authorship. Perhaps some PI's appreciate it more than others? Certainly willing to hear evidence to the contrary, however, especially since that section was by far my best. ? Would be more than happy to see a revamping of the quant section, I never liked feeling I needed to learn "GRE math" as opposed to just, you know, actual math.

Yeah, what I've heard is that the V+Q matters much more than the writing score, especially if you can demonstrate writing competence another way. GRE math is definitely annoying, but it is luckily pretty helped by learning test-taking tricks. I was always surprised by how it wasn't necessarily that advanced compared with the SAT, just very specific. But I was also an engineering/applied math major so YMMV

[justacigar]

32 minutes ago, EileanDonan said:

I haven't heard of the writing section being particularly valued (as compared to the other sections), at least as a general rule. More so if you've already completed some kind of primary authorship. Perhaps some PI's appreciate it more than others? Certainly willing to hear evidence to the contrary, however, especially since that section was by far my best. ? Would be more than happy to see a revamping of the quant section, I never liked feeling I needed to learn "GRE math" as opposed to just, you know, actual math.

I'm assuming a lower writing score would be a bit of a red flag, but once you reach 4.5 - 6 I can't see it making a huge difference compared to actual writing samples/experience. Who knows though, I feel like some faculty are very particular about cutoff scores/using the GRE as guidance for admissions decisions

[Mickey26]

1 hour ago, EileanDonan said:

I haven't heard of the writing section being particularly valued (as compared to the other sections), at least as a general rule. More so if you've already completed some kind of primary authorship. Perhaps some PI's appreciate it more than others? Certainly willing to hear evidence to the contrary, however, especially since that section was by far my best. ? Would be more than happy to see a revamping of the quant section, I never liked feeling I needed to learn "GRE math" as opposed to just, you know, actual math.

Yeah tbh I also heard they don't care about the writing portion, although to me, that seems like the section you SHOULD care about the most?? LOL Who knows how admissions works LOL Better clarification on the admissions process, including how they're factoring GRE scores if they do take them but aren't required, would be fantabulous and I can sit back and say my work here is done 

/endrant

[philoquant]

19 hours ago, Mickey26 said:

Yeah tbh I also heard they don't care about the writing portion, although to me, that seems like the section you SHOULD care about the most?? LOL Who knows how admissions works LOL Better clarification on the admissions process, including how they're factoring GRE scores if they do take them but aren't required, would be fantabulous and I can sit back and say my work here is done 

/endrant

In my old field they didn't care about the writing section because doing the gre essays doesnt  indicate you know how to write an article. I'm guessing some in psychology feel the same way.

[broski]

Posted this on the 2021 Canada thread but University of New Brunswick Clinical + Experimental not requiring General and Psych GREs for this cycle 

https://www.unb.ca/fredericton/arts/departments/psychology/grad/clinical/admission.html

[expensiveswimmer]

Hofstra Clinical is waiving the Psych GRE requirement!

[Mickey26]

WesternU waives GRE for Clinical & I/O.

https://www.psychology.uwo.ca/graduate/future_students/application_process.html

[PsychApplicant2]

University of Tennessee Knoxville just waived their GRE requirement too 

Edited July 9, 2020 by PsychApplicant2