2021 Applicants Forum

[koechophe]

27 minutes ago, Boomer not Ok said:

. I got a feeling the cliched or insentient metaphorical axe is coming down this week for most of our apps. 

Here's legitimately hoping ? Glad you're enjoying the conversation, I always love a good discussion on criticism. 

 

6 hours ago, Gertrude. said:

Your basic premise is that there is no objective right and wrong, or better and worse. It would make MFA applications a ridiculous exercise. It would make Nobel Prizes in Writing ridiculous. Some words in some instances add more verbiage than anything else.

The idea that there is no objective "better or worse" in writing is something that I didn't realize was an actual argument people have; of course there's no objective better or worse in writing. Even the most broadly accepted means of critical literary analysis are subjective in nature, they're just subjective to the collective consciousness that we as literary critics have created. A bit of this might be the difference between (what sounds like) you being a creative writing major and me being an English  major--I deal more with popular literary criticism than creative writing majors would. Still, even though we establish "rules" in creative writing, a rational human being must recognize that these rules are not objectively "better" or "worse," they are subjective metrics developed to suit the needs and wants of what we consider to be the general academic audience.

 

6 hours ago, Gertrude. said:

Foundational also breaches another guideline: to be concrete.

And this is where I think you're still not understanding my point. Even if you are correct in removing the word (I would actually argue that "huge, foundational" is where the issue in needless repetition is and "foundational" is bringing more to the table than "huge", so "huge" should go, but that's a separate issue), your criticism of the word (just saying that it is unnecessary) is the issue. It is not enough to cite a rule and say, "therefore, based on this rule, it should go", because that fails to fully address A. what the word is actually doing and B. why there is more value in removing it than keeping it.

In other words, it's not the actual fact that you said the word needs to go; it's the fact that the way you presented it didn't supply any information about the rhetorical situation and why the word itself doesn't fit into it. 

It's a different way of thinking, but it is necessary. If you view writing as a conglomeration of universal rules and objective facts, you will end up slashing some extremely valuable writing on the basis of rule. There are times when abstraction is better than concretion. There are times when fluff is preferable to streamlined prose. Without a deep understanding of the rhetorical situation (rather than just a statement of "this is the absolute correct thing 100% of the time), you lose the ability to both adapt your writing to your audience and to recognize when other writers are doing the same.

It's not the removal of the word that's the problem; it's the mentality behind why you did it. 

[JPReinhold]

People -

1. don’t feed the troll. 
2. Where ? is ? IOWA.

[Gertrude.]

43 minutes ago, koechophe said:

And this is where I think you're still not understanding my point. Even if you are correct in removing the word (I would actually argue that "huge, foundational" is where the issue in needless repetition is and "foundational" is bringing more to the table than "huge", so "huge" should go, but that's a separate issue), your criticism of the word (just saying that it is unnecessary) is the issue. It is not enough to cite a rule and say, "therefore, based on this rule, it should go", because that fails to fully address A. what the word is actually doing and B. why there is more value in removing it than keeping it.

Every phrasing is a simplification, including “objective.”

I had one teacher with the attitude that there is no objective better. You could give anything a third grader wrote, and he would think it isn’t necessarily any worse than Shakespeare. He would want to weigh pros and cons. If he taught Directed Writing, he would give no edits. He is in the minority. There is no point to school if he is right.

Objective error in writing doesn’t mean someone claimed 1 + 1   =  3, which is literally the only objective error possible. Objective error in writing mean 9 / 10 good readers or writing professors will agree one version is preferable. If only 7 / 10 will agree, the error can only be called subjective.

It probably would be better to take out “huge” also. I actually found “foundational” more distracting because it is more an abstraction and pretentious. It gave an aura of a writer trying to impress (or indulge his idea) with a complicated or fancy form, when there was no new substance. I didn't sense the author's appreciation of the need to keep a vigil for simplification. 

Repeating things can be a valid tactic. An author might decide that comparing something to breathing wasn’t enough. She might want some elaboration, but that is usually done through an image, not a petty abstraction, like adding the word “foundational.” This is sometimes called "overwriting." It is a rookie instinct that always fades. Hemingway goes aggressively in the other direction. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Gertrude.

[Ydrl]

Guys, what the flying fuck is going on with the rest of the colleges? I haven’t heard from six of them still, how???

[funfettuccine]

1 minute ago, Ydrl said:

Guys, what the flying fuck is going on with the rest of the colleges? I haven’t heard from six of them still, how???

I’m waiting on five! I’m pretty sure one of them is out, and I know a couple others have started contacting people, but I don’t know if they’ve finished. Radio silence from the others though... and BU is one of my schools so I feel like I’m going to be waiting until, like, April to actually know what’s going on in my life. ?

[Boomer not Ok]

Hamlet's mom makes some good points here. But for me the test of "good" writing is how long the writing can sustain my interest and what at the moment I'm looking to get out of it (laughs, escape, frisson, distraction, etc.). Under this test, though, I do find myself enjoying a lot of commercial genre fiction that some discerning folk may look down on. But I do agree with the overall idea that good writing involves a kind of rhetorical manipulation of reader by writer and to some extent those rhetorical skills can be measured and judged. 

[Ydrl]

8 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

I’m waiting on five! I’m pretty sure one of them is out, and I know a couple others have started contacting people, but I don’t know if they’ve finished. Radio silence from the others though... and BU is one of my schools so I feel like I’m going to be waiting until, like, April to actually know what’s going on in my life. ?

Four of mine are out in some capacity, and the other one I care about is Maryland.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Ydrl

[cecsav]

9 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

I’m waiting on five! I’m pretty sure one of them is out, and I know a couple others have started contacting people, but I don’t know if they’ve finished. Radio silence from the others though... and BU is one of my schools so I feel like I’m going to be waiting until, like, April to actually know what’s going on in my life. ?

Yup. Waiting on seven! A couple of these have notes in Results, but if I haven't received an explicit rejection via email or portal, I'm still holding out hope. 

[Boomer not Ok]

Waiting on 9 apps. But I figure on 4 of those I’m waitlist at best. Which reminds me: did Rutgers Camden make their decisions on fiction? I’ve seen nothing in the results page about notifications for interviews or decisions. I don’t have access to Draft but maybe it’s been reported there. Anyone knows, that would help. Thanks 

[M-Lin]

1 hour ago, funfettuccine said:

I’m waiting on five! I’m pretty sure one of them is out, and I know a couple others have started contacting people, but I don’t know if they’ve finished. Radio silence from the others though... and BU is one of my schools so I feel like I’m going to be waiting until, like, April to actually know what’s going on in my life. ?

Same here... BU is probably my first choice (along with BK)! I would advise people against applying to BU in the future just because this wait is torture. Application advice: apply to schools that notify in January and February. LOL 

[M-Lin]

Also. This is cute. 

https://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/ut-graphic-tees/haruki-murakami

[Boomer not Ok]

14 minutes ago, M-Lin said:

Same here... BU is probably my first choice (along with BK)! I would advise people against applying to BU in the future just because this wait is torture. Application advice: apply to schools that notify in January and February. LOL 

Also waiting on BU. Highly unlikely I’ll get in. Also it’s a 1 yr program which I’m ambivalent about. I really think I need more time than that, though for others I can see the attraction of completing the degree in less time. Also applied to Emerson but if that works out not sure now I’d want to relocate. But Boston is a great city...

[Downtozero]

1 hour ago, Boomer not Ok said:

Waiting on 9 apps. But I figure on 4 of those I’m waitlist at best. Which reminds me: did Rutgers Camden make their decisions on fiction? I’ve seen nothing in the results page about notifications for interviews or decisions. I don’t have access to Draft but maybe it’s been reported there. Anyone knows, that would help. Thanks 

There has been a little bit of Rutgers Camden activity, which I think included one fiction acceptance. I applied too, haven't heard anything, and suspect they may be done contacting acceptances/waitlists. Their funding situation was tenuous and people were getting partially funded offers from them. 

Though, one thing about these small cohort schools with not-great funding is that all the accepted students may decline, so they may end up contacting other applicants late in the game. All conjecture, but have heard of this happening before. 

[funfettuccine]

9 minutes ago, Boomer not Ok said:

Also waiting on BU. Highly unlikely I’ll get in. Also it’s a 1 yr program which I’m ambivalent about. I really think I need more time than that, though for others I can see the attraction of completing the degree in less time. Also applied to Emerson but if that works out not sure now I’d want to relocate. But Boston is a great city...

I do think the one-year thing could go either way. On the one hand, I like the idea of something so intense, but I could also see it just not being enough time. I was really attracted to BU for the focus on travel/translation in addition to straight writing instruction... I did a French major in undergrad and have always been interested in translation, but never really pursued it. And I did my undergrad in MA (albeit not in Boston), so I have fond memories of the state. Anyway, we'll see!

[goodcynara]

Glad to hear that others are contemplating the pros and cons of a one-year program. I also applied to BU; program appears stellar. It would undoubtedly be intense, but that intensity may be somewhat offset by the fact that it is year-round. As a practical matter, when you include summer and the post-degree study abroad, the number of semesters is basically the same. Of course, one lacks the time in between semesters for one's writing to "cure," so to speak.

On the other hand, is anyone out there debating full-res vs low-res? I've been accepted to one of each and had been totally open to relocating, but in recent weeks, an 11-year relationship that had been flagging has had a blooming renaissance. Additionally, I am extremely fortunate to have a rent-controlled studio apartment by the beach and it would be madness to give it up, as the price is impossible to beat anywhere in town. New rent control laws prevent it from being sublet, so if I relocate, I might try to stay with a friend in order to avoid paying rent in two places. 

All of that is rather specific, forgive me; mainly wondering if anyone out there is weighing shifting life factors as part of their decision. Still waiting on word from eight more programs; perhaps all of this will be solved with a fully-funded offer -- both of my acceptances thus far are only partially funded. 

[koechophe]

2 hours ago, Boomer not Ok said:

But I do agree with the overall idea that good writing involves a kind of rhetorical manipulation of reader by writer and to some extent those rhetorical skills can be measured and judged. 

Oh, I agree with this too. But the I don't believe there is a universal metric that can be applied to all writing; each piece of writing must be judged individually in its rhetorical situation for value. Most of my conversations with Gertrude are pushing back against the concept that one can just take writing out of context and call things in that writing "wrong." The only way to tell if writing is wrong is within its rhetorical situation. 

2 hours ago, cecsav said:

Yup. Waiting on seven! A couple of these have notes in Results, but if I haven't received an explicit rejection via email or portal, I'm still holding out hope. 

I'm waiting on 7 too. It's been interesting lol. Honestly, if I just get one acceptance, I'll feel a lot better about life. 

[Ydrl]

2 minutes ago, goodcynara said:

All of that is rather specific, forgive me; mainly wondering if anyone out there is weighing shifting life factors as part of their decision. Still waiting on word from eight more programs; perhaps all of this will be solved with a fully-funded offer -- both of my acceptances thus far are only partially funded. 

Honestly, I’m really, really considering life factors in my decision. I’m glad I got into somewhere out of state where I can medically transition. Another things that’ll help make my decision is if I have enough of a stipend to live off campus. At NH I don’t, but I can live on campus at the rate of 8,570 dollars for an entire year.

[M-Lin]

1 hour ago, Boomer not Ok said:

Also waiting on BU. Highly unlikely I’ll get in. Also it’s a 1 yr program which I’m ambivalent about. I really think I need more time than that, though for others I can see the attraction of completing the degree in less time. Also applied to Emerson but if that works out not sure now I’d want to relocate. But Boston is a great city...

 

1 hour ago, funfettuccine said:

I do think the one-year thing could go either way. On the one hand, I like the idea of something so intense, but I could also see it just not being enough time. I was really attracted to BU for the focus on travel/translation in addition to straight writing instruction... I did a French major in undergrad and have always been interested in translation, but never really pursued it. And I did my undergrad in MA (albeit not in Boston), so I have fond memories of the state. Anyway, we'll see!

Agree that the 1-year duration could go either way. I'm also attracted to their translation seminar and the global fellowship at the end of the program. Plus opportunity to teach, small cohort, fully-funded & stipend, etc. Wish us all luck! 

I don't plan to relocate to Boston from NYC. Below are some answers I got from the program before I applied: 

1) regarding commuting from somewhere else: 

Yes, students have lived outside of Boston before.  You can plan for your literature courses to be on the same days as your workshops so that your commute is manageable.  Courses are usually 3 hours / week.  We've had students who lived primarily in NYC or even Maine.  If you're accepted to the program, we'll work with you on your schedule.

2) regarding translation courses:

You need to take 4 upper-level literature courses.  You're welcome to choose any literary translation courses to be part of those courses, even all 4 if that's what you want.

3) regarding auditing classes from other departments of BU:
Yes.  These are on a case-by-case basis depending on the professor.

4) regarding teaching: 

We usually schedule experienced teachers for the first semester.  If you haven't taught before, we'll schedule you in the spring.  There are teaching orientations and you can sit in on classes to watch your classmates teach, but we don't offer extensive teaching training.

5) regarding funding if you choose to finish in a year and a half:
If you stay for another half year, BU will cover the continuing student fee, but you won't be registered for any courses and you won't receive any extra stipend.  The funding essentially is the same for the two timelines.

Hope this helps fellow BU(fiction) applicants! 

[koechophe]

17 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

Honestly, I’m really, really considering life factors in my decision

Same here, I think most everyone would. I'm getting married in August, and so a lot of this is that we've had discussions between the two of us on where we want to live (and where will offer her the best job opportunities). We also are discussing finances, if we can end up close to one of our families, etc. I really doubt that there's many people who don't have other factors that play into their decision. 

 

(Here's hoping I actually will have to make a decision between different acceptances ? )

[goodcynara]

9 minutes ago, M-Lin said:

 

Agree that the 1-year duration could go either way. I'm also attracted to their translation seminar and the global fellowship at the end of the program. Plus opportunity to teach, small cohort, fully-funded & stipend, etc. Wish us all luck! 

I don't plan to relocate to Boston from NYC. Below are some answers I got from the program before I applied: 

1) regarding commuting from somewhere else: 

Yes, students have lived outside of Boston before.  You can plan for your literature courses to be on the same days as your workshops so that your commute is manageable.  Courses are usually 3 hours / week.  We've had students who lived primarily in NYC or even Maine.  If you're accepted to the program, we'll work with you on your schedule.

2) regarding translation courses:

You need to take 4 upper-level literature courses.  You're welcome to choose any literary translation courses to be part of those courses, even all 4 if that's what you want.

3) regarding auditing classes from other departments of BU:
Yes.  These are on a case-by-case basis depending on the professor.

4) regarding teaching: 

We usually schedule experienced teachers for the first semester.  If you haven't taught before, we'll schedule you in the spring.  There are teaching orientations and you can sit in on classes to watch your classmates teach, but we don't offer extensive teaching training.

5) regarding funding if you choose to finish in a year and a half:
If you stay for another half year, BU will cover the continuing student fee, but you won't be registered for any courses and you won't receive any extra stipend.  The funding essentially is the same for the two timelines.

Hope this helps fellow BU(fiction) applicants! 

Fantastic info, thank you! 

[goodcynara]

3 minutes ago, koechophe said:

Same here, I think most everyone would. I'm getting married in August, and so a lot of this is that we've had discussions between the two of us on where we want to live (and where will offer her the best job opportunities). We also are discussing finances, if we can end up close to one of our families, etc. I really doubt that there's many people who don't have other factors that play into their decision. 

 

(Here's hoping I actually will have to make a decision between different acceptances ? )

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! What a beautiful thing.

I don't know if you have any interest in low-res programs, but having that option is a huge comfort to me. Bennington accepted me within 24 hours, and they have another deadline in September to start January 2022. VCFA has also been wildly proactive and warm: I haven't even been accepted yet, but have had Google Meets with both the Director of Student Recruitment and the Financial Officer, who opened my eyes to new funding possibilities. (One of my LOR's was from a beloved alum of the program, but my sense is that this outreach would occur with anyone; being super nice seems to be a requirement of living in Vermont.) 

[CrankyGinger]

4 hours ago, Ydrl said:

Guys, what the flying fuck is going on with the rest of the colleges? I haven’t heard from six of them still, how???

Yeah, seriously! I'm waiting on 4, still. I've only heard from one school.

[Boomer not Ok]

3 hours ago, Downtozero said:

There has been a little bit of Rutgers Camden activity, which I think included one fiction acceptance. I applied too, haven't heard anything, and suspect they may be done contacting acceptances/waitlists. Their funding situation was tenuous and people were getting partially funded offers from them. 

Though, one thing about these small cohort schools with not-great funding is that all the accepted students may decline, so they may end up contacting other applicants late in the game. All conjecture, but have heard of this happening before. 

Thanks for this. I suspect you’re right about the acceptances and waitlists. I just find it odd that no one has indicated getting called for interviews and acceptances on Gradcafe but have posted results for Rutgers Newark. (But maybe I’ve missed seeing the posts.) OTOH maybe applicants were asked not to post results. I think some one indicated that Hunter requests this. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Boomer not Ok

[forthetruththeyburnyou]

Hi, Grad Cafe! Popping back in with a reminder that The Workshop's free I Applied to MFAs: What's next? webinar will be happening one week from today. See below for details, and let me know if you have any questions. See you there!

 

 

---

The Workshop will be hosting a *free* I Applied To MFAs: What's Next? panel for MFA applicants (as well as anyone out there who sat out this cycle, but is thinking of applying down the line) on Sunday, March 14th from 4-5:30PM Eastern.

 

Our panelists are graduates in poetry, fiction, CNF, and hybrid-genre writing from the University of Alabama, Brown, Cornell, Indiana University, Northern Michigan University, UNC-Wilmington, and Warren Wilson. Members of The Workshop team with MFAs from OSU and CU Boulder will also be in the chat helping answer questions, and the event will be spearheaded by moderator Eshani Surya (U of Arizona). We'll be answering questions on how to proceed once you've heard back from your programs, no matter your results.

Full details as well as links to our registration and Q&A forms are up on The Workshop's site at readtheworkshop.com/events.

 

 

[goodcynara]

11 minutes ago, forthetruththeyburnyou said:

Hi, Grad Cafe! Popping back in with a reminder that The Workshop's free I Applied to MFAs: What's next? webinar will be happening one week from today. See below for details, and let me know if you have any questions. See you there!

 

 

---

The Workshop will be hosting a *free* I Applied To MFAs: What's Next? panel for MFA applicants (as well as anyone out there who sat out this cycle, but is thinking of applying down the line) on Sunday, March 14th from 4-5:30PM Eastern.

 

Our panelists are graduates in poetry, fiction, CNF, and hybrid-genre writing from the University of Alabama, Brown, Cornell, Indiana University, Northern Michigan University, UNC-Wilmington, and Warren Wilson. Members of The Workshop team with MFAs from OSU and CU Boulder will also be in the chat helping answer questions, and the event will be spearheaded by moderator Eshani Surya (U of Arizona). We'll be answering questions on how to proceed once you've heard back from your programs, no matter your results.

Full details as well as links to our registration and Q&A forms are up on The Workshop's site at readtheworkshop.com/events.

 

 

Can't come soon enough! Thank you!