2021 Applicants Forum

[ZaytandLabna]

9 hours ago, Pinskadan said:

Woah! So much activity since I last checked in. Re: the discussions around Why Apply To This School, or How Do I Deal With The Super-Selectiveness, I've been lucky to have a faculty mentor who did his MFA at one of the Prestigious ProgramsTM (and got accepted to multiple with full funding) and set my expectations from the get-go. The day I came into his office and let him know I was thinking of applying to MFAs (two years ago), he told me this:

"I would never go out of my way to push someone to go to an MFA. But if you know that's what you want, then I'll support you all the way."

He said that because he wanted me to know that the process is challenging, financially risky, and poses little chance of major career success, but that the MFA education can still be valuable in other ways. I was (and AM!) SO LUCKY to have his advice, and thought I could share some of his best advice with all of y'all as we all sit here and wait (im)patiently for our decisions to roll in ?

1. Know what you're getting an MFA for: Are you going to get the credentials you need to teach at a collegiate level? Are you going so you can have 2-3 years to work on your project? Do you want to buckle down on craft and technical construction? Are you trying to connect with other writers to gain a sense of community and professional network? Do you want to move somewhere with an active literary scene to expand your ideas and reading lists? The answer to this question will frame how you decide which programs you're interested in.

2. Plan to apply twice (or more): My professor has always told me to expect to get rejected on the first go-around, and that it's really just a happy miracle if you get in then. You can use your first application cycle to familiarize yourself with the process and that will make your applications that much stronger in the next cycle. (I'm only on my first application cycle and I'm bracing myself for rejection).

3. Don't succumb to competitiveness: It's already tremendously difficult to get into an MFA, and odds are that only one or two people per program per year will end up going on to be meaningfully successful as a writer in their career. That doesn't mean you need to be mean, or treat your peers like your competition! The fact is, their success has no bearing on your ability to succeed (and vice versa). It's best to contribute to an environment of mutual support-- and in all likelihood, your peers will have their corner of the market they're interested in and you'll have yours!

4.  Don't compromise (sorta): Unlike going undergrad, there are probably few (if any) people expecting you to get an MFA other than yourself. The only field that requires this type of degree for anything is some writing professorships, if that. To that end, only apply to (and accept) programs you'd be genuinely happy to attend! 

5. Amazing writers get rejected: Amazing writers get rejected? Amazing writers get rejected. Amazing writers get rejected!! These programs are so selective that even really really talented writers will get turned down. Admissions teams might reject an application today that they would've accepted tomorrow. As others have said, it's a crapshoot! Try not to take decisions personally, and recognize that rejections are not a condemnation of your work. Admissions teams are making hard decisions between great applicants and sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Either way, you should keep on writing!

I hope everyone is taking care and that you're all keeping busy while waiting for decisions, I know I'm going wild waiting haha

This was super helfpul!! Thank youuu 

[Ydrl]

Suddenly remembered that I forgot to submit Florida’s application. Now I’m done submitting everything.

[mrvisser]

50 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

Suddenly remembered that I forgot to submit Florida’s application. Now I’m done submitting everything.

Congrats! 

[pattycat]

12 hours ago, Pinskadan said:

5. Amazing writers get rejected: Amazing writers get rejected? Amazing writers get rejected. Amazing writers get rejected!! These programs are so selective that even really really talented writers will get turned down. Admissions teams might reject an application today that they would've accepted tomorrow. As others have said, it's a crapshoot! Try not to take decisions personally, and recognize that rejections are not a condemnation of your work. Admissions teams are making hard decisions between great applicants and sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Either way, you should keep on writing!

Thank you for sharing all of this! It's so hard to not tie my worth as a writer to these results, but you're totally right. I keep reminding myself that one of my recommenders--a very talented writer and IWW alum--was rejected across the board the first time she applied.

[sylviaplate]

On 1/9/2021 at 2:43 PM, FairleyAlfy said:

Congrats on submitting your last application! That's a good feeling! I understand the soul-crushing doom all too well. It's killing my sleep pattern. I feel like we will start hearing things in February, but who knows....I hope it's not two more months lol. 

I'm forcing myself to believe it'll be a longer wait so I don't start compulsively checking applicant portals too soon - best of luck!

[sylviaplate]

On 1/9/2021 at 3:42 PM, unfortunate ith said:

Welcome and congrats on submitting your last app! Having been through the process a couple times now, I can confirm that the wait is indeed an excruciating one which only gets harder as we enter February, since lots of programs (with some exceptions) don't start sending responses until March. (Ohio State tends to be super quick though, so you should hear back from them this month if past experience is any indication!)

My advice to others is basically: Don't feel like you need to be accomplishing a whole lot during these couple months. The wait itself can get extremely draining, and just getting through one day after the next is totally fine. So do what you've gotta do to stay afloat, be that writing, Netflix, or long walks on the beach, and don't feel bad if your perceived productivity drops for a while!

Good to know about Ohio State! Makes sense given their app was due a little bit ahead of the other places I applied. Not sure if it's exciting or scary - Ohio is one of my top programs, but because of the earlier app deadline, I didn't get the benefit of time to keep tweaking to SOP and sample as I kept applying. Oh well! Best not to linger on the 'what ifs.'

Also appreciate the advice - I'm very fortunate to be working right now, and it's been nice to have *that* to stress about instead of apps. 

[teasel]

16 hours ago, The_Realeo said:

Super weird question, but I've been wondering.  I know COVID is negatively affecting many universities at the undergraduate level.  I also have seen that applications for MBAs are way up because of economic trials.  Do you guys think that there will be more or less applicants than usual because of the pandemic?  Obviously no one knows; it's just a curiosity. 

 I think I remember reading that MFA applications went up pretty drastically around the 2008 recession and I wouldn't be surprised if applications went up this year due to COVID. Whether those candidates workshopped/revised their portfolio, articulated their goals for graduate school in their SOP, or did any research pertaining as to why certain programs are a good fit for their writing--that's another story, I think. Even if the pool is much larger, I don't know if that will make much of a difference. It was already a competitive and subjective application process to begin with, so I'm trying not to worry too much at this point! 

 

10 hours ago, Michelle Zeller said:

 

That  professor is full of shit. I've never heard anything dumber. Even I, whose MFA knowledge comes from five google searches, have already stumbled upon four claims that the SOP is thrown out. So Iowa sits there and says everyone can win a Nobel if they keep trying, and I don't care how close the applicant is to the Nobel today. I care about how he works with others. 

They check to see if the SOP sounds like the Unabomber. That's it. No one ever got in because of an SOP. They were only rejected for it. 

Everyone can't win a Nobel, and the level you start at matters. The professor is telling you how he wishes the world was, not how it is. 

 

I've talked to a number of folks in MFA programs as well as my mentors about the SOP and its importance. The writing portfolio is hands down the most important aspect of your application. If an applicant's portfolio shows promise, most adcoms move to the SOP to make sure the applicant is sane, as you have pointed out. A well-crafted SOP will also demonstrate that an applicant is ready for grad school--that they have career goals related to the MFA, that they have researched the program and can articulate why they are a good fit, and that they have some semblance of how their voice fits into the larger literary community. While I don't think the SOP is the most important aspect of the process, it seems to be a make-or-break document. If there are two applicants that show equal promise and only one available spot, no doubt the SOP is the tie-breaker. After that, they might read the LOR or CV. 

That being said, I hope you are taking care of yourself and not stressing too much. This is a learning process for all of us, and we're all sitting in the dark as of this moment while we wait to hear back. So, maybe try to be a little more polite to those who have gone to great lengths to provide their intellectual labor on your behalf. I'm anxious too, and one of the ways I'm combatting this is by writing new material and researching  non-MFA writing workshops. I figure that if I don't get in this time, at least I'll have fresh material for next year that I can get a head start on revising. Also, if you haven't reached out to creative writing faculty at your university, I would do so! I can't remember who suggested this  off the top of my head since I'm just getting caught up on this thread, but it's some solid advice! 

4 hours ago, Ydrl said:

Suddenly remembered that I forgot to submit Florida’s application. Now I’m done submitting everything.

 

Congrats!!! I'm officially done with applications too : ) Hope you are feeling better and taking good care of yourself during this crazy time. I don't know what my top three programs are since I have different reasons for choosing various programs, but the ones I've been spending the most time thinking of lately are: 

1. Michener - the faculty and the funding are amazing and I really miss living in a big city 

2. University of Minnesota - I think I told you that I was skipping this program (since it's extra competitive this year!!) , but my professors submitted recs on my behalf and I didn't want them to go to waste : )   My immediately family lives there now, and Minneapolis has some many amazing small presses. 

3. UMass Amherst - I have met a few well-known poets who've got to this program. I would also love the chance to meet and learn from Ocean Vuong, who strikes me as not only a talented poet but a kind & generous teacher.  

Obviously I would be extraordinarily grateful to get in anywhere. These are just the programs I've been thinking a lot about this past week. I miss my family a lot, and I'm not sure I'm as passionate about teaching now that we're in the middle of a pandemic and I've seen the way we've treated our educators here in the United States. *sigh* 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by teasel
typo

[teasel]

Random question, but do you guys think that adcoms vet social media and personal websites (writing-related ones, I mean) while they're narrowing down their top potential applicants? 

[JPReinhold]

2 minutes ago, teasel said:

Random question, but do you guys think that adcoms vet social media and personal websites (writing-related ones, I mean) while they're narrowing down their top potential applicants? 

I've read some rumors about this, and I think it would be possible.

I feel like my social media is an accurate representation of who I am (parent / poet / goofball / leftist) and that my website shows I can be professional and dedicated to writing. Other than that, I don't know what they'd be looking for.

I got some advice to list pubs on my CV that hadn't been included in my sample that they may also want to see? I listed my top fiction pubs on my CV (in addition to the more relevant but not THAT relevant poetry pubs) and a link to my website on top with my address and email in case they were interested.

I was a little worried about my Twitter because I am not a very serious person and I'm usually laughing at something silly, but I wouldn't want to go anywhere that required me to be serious all of the time (as I'm not capable).Maybe they check Twitter / Facebook to see if you play nice in the social media sandbox or if you're an arrogant jerk? If you're a jerk on social media, it may dissuade someone from wanting to hang out with you for 2-3 years.

Or maybe that's all just speculation and they really do choose based on your portfolio? Who knows.

[spacedumpster]

10 minutes ago, teasel said:

Random question, but do you guys think that adcoms vet social media and personal websites (writing-related ones, I mean) while they're narrowing down their top potential applicants? 

It would not surprise me, but also might be more effort than anyone would care to put in. If you're concerned about it, just set all your shit to private. I use a pseudonym on all my social media, so I think I'm good unless they're combing facial recognition databases. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by spacedumpster

[Brother Panda]

17 hours ago, spacedumpster said:

Hey feralgrad, anything floatin' around the rumor mill at your school re: the applicant pool this cycle? ? Numbers compared to previous years, stage in review, timelines, etc? Obviously everywhere is going to be different, but it might give us anxious toe-tappers a lil' something to extrapolate from.

So I just got an email from the head of my MFA department (it seems by accident) that indicates the school is accepting the same amount of students as it always has--12 students, 6 in prose and 6 in poetry. My school is fully funded, though summer funding that was once guaranteed now hangs in the air a bit. I hope this helps alleviate some fears!

[teasel]

43 minutes ago, JPReinhold said:

I've read some rumors about this, and I think it would be possible.

I feel like my social media is an accurate representation of who I am (parent / poet / goofball / leftist) and that my website shows I can be professional and dedicated to writing. Other than that, I don't know what they'd be looking for.

I got some advice to list pubs on my CV that hadn't been included in my sample that they may also want to see? I listed my top fiction pubs on my CV (in addition to the more relevant but not THAT relevant poetry pubs) and a link to my website on top with my address and email in case they were interested.

I was a little worried about my Twitter because I am not a very serious person and I'm usually laughing at something silly, but I wouldn't want to go anywhere that required me to be serious all of the time (as I'm not capable).Maybe they check Twitter / Facebook to see if you play nice in the social media sandbox or if you're an arrogant jerk? If you're a jerk on social media, it may dissuade someone from wanting to hang out with you for 2-3 years.

Or maybe that's all just speculation and they really do choose based on your portfolio? Who knows.

 

42 minutes ago, spacedumpster said:

It would not surprise me, but also might be more effort than anyone would care to put in. If you're concerned about it, just set all your shit to private. I use a pseudonym on all my social media, so I think I'm good unless they're combing facial recognition databases. 

 

I figure that if anything it's just a quick check, but I was curious to hear your thoughts! I'm not worried about my social media since it's mostly hiking pictures and random pics of my pets. They are set to private, anyway! But I do have a writing website that I included in my CV, though it didn't occur to me until now that someone might bother to take a look. I am caught in the trap of over-thinking at this point haha 

[orangeslice]

Hi all! I've been lurking over the weekend and just wanted to wish everyone a happy Monday! This wait is unbelievably tedious and I'm glad we're all hanging on together

[feralgrad]

20 hours ago, spacedumpster said:

Hey feralgrad, anything floatin' around the rumor mill at your school re: the applicant pool this cycle? ? Numbers compared to previous years, stage in review, timelines, etc? Obviously everywhere is going to be different, but it might give us anxious toe-tappers a lil' something to extrapolate from.

Unfortunately, I haven't heard much. Of course, everything in every workplace is taking longer this year. Since faculty cannot meet in person, what should be 15 minute conversations are taking place over several days via email. I'm sorry to say that you'll likely have a longer wait ?

[Starbuck420]

2 hours ago, spacedumpster said:

It would not surprise me, but also might be more effort than anyone would care to put in. If you're concerned about it, just set all your shit to private. I use a pseudonym on all my social media, so I think I'm good unless they're combing facial recognition databases. 

I don't know about social media, but people on Draft often post about visits to their personal websites from places like Ann Arbor, or Providence, or Amherst at various stages in the process. Not to feed anyone's paranoia/anxiety, but it really does seem like a few programs will occasionally google your name and poke around for a few minutes if they're really considering admitting you. It's possible (and dangerous!) to read into this too much, but it is something to be thinking about, because it is something that occasionally happens, apparently

I for one have been checking visitor data on my Wordpress site wayyyyy too much recently (bad! bad applicant! cut it out!)

[spacedumpster]

1 minute ago, Starbuck420 said:

I don't know about social media, but people on Draft often post about visits to their personal websites from places like Ann Arbor, or Providence, or Amherst at various stages in the process. Not to feed anyone's paranoia/anxiety, but it really does seem like a few programs will occasionally google your name and poke around for a few minutes if they're really considering admitting you. It's possible (and dangerous!) to read into this too much, but it is something to be thinking about, because it is something that occasionally happens, apparently

I for one have been checking visitor data on my Wordpress site wayyyyy too much recently (bad! bad applicant! cut it out!)

Aaaand cue anxiety over the fact that I don't have a website. ?

[Starbuck420]

3 minutes ago, spacedumpster said:

Aaaand cue anxiety over the fact that I don't have a website. ?

noooo! sorry. this is not something to worry about.

fwiw, no one is visiting mine, because I don't actually need to have one, lol. I really just use mine when applying for jobs as a way of linking to samples

[mrvisser]

I brought this up before, but it's just amazing to me how much confidence can sway from one day to the next. Maybe it's because we're at the bottom of the waiting valley, but mine is low right now. There are days where I think, "hell yeah, I could really compete for a spot at Iowa or Michener," and then there's today, where I think, "holy shit, I might not even be considered at the 'less-prestigious' programs I applied to."

I know we've beaten this subject to death, and that my worth is not entirely tied up to one application process; I just have to laugh at the gymnastics my brain performs in a given week.

[FairleyAlfy]

2 hours ago, mrvisser said:

I brought this up before, but it's just amazing to me how much confidence can sway from one day to the next. Maybe it's because we're at the bottom of the waiting valley, but mine is low right now. There are days where I think, "hell yeah, I could really compete for a spot at Iowa or Michener," and then there's today, where I think, "holy shit, I might not even be considered at the 'less-prestigious' programs I applied to."

I know we've beaten this subject to death, and that my worth is not entirely tied up to one application process; I just have to laugh at the gymnastics my brain performs in a given week.

Right there with you. I have nightmares of being rejected most nights with the occasional dream about being accepted. I keep telling myself that it is fine to get rejected and that I can apply next year, but some days I'm just really moody about the whole thing. What's funny is that I haven't even been rejected yet! haha

[mrvisser]

6 minutes ago, FairleyAlfy said:

Right there with you. I have nightmares of being rejected most nights with the occasional dream about being accepted. I keep telling myself that it is fine to get rejected and that I can apply next year, but some days I'm just really moody about the whole thing. What's funny is that I haven't even been rejected yet! haha

I just hate the thought of having to spend another year of working and writing in my spare time in the hopes of making it next time. First-world problems, for sure, but after this year it seems weird to imagine going back to a pre-pandemic way of life.

[FairleyAlfy]

12 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

I just hate the thought of having to spend another year of working and writing in my spare time in the hopes of making it next time. First-world problems, for sure, but after this year it seems weird to imagine going back to a pre-pandemic way of life.

Exactly, I'm ready to really get involved in a community of writers. I did want to take some time away from academics after getting my undergrad, and I think it has helped my writing tremendously, but I'm ready to get back into it. 

[fishfish24]

Hey all! You guys look great; really wish I'd gotten on here earlier to commiserate and offer some thoughts on application questions. I write poetry, fiction, and a bunch of other stuff, but I'm shooting for fiction programs. Last year I applied to Michener, Syracuse, UVA, Minnesota, Madison-Wisconsin, and Michigan. I was waitlisted at Michener, Minnesota, and Madison-Wisconsin and got into one program which then had to make covid funding cuts, so.... round two!! This year I'm waiting to hear back from:

-Michener

-NWP

-Michigan

-Vanderbilt

-Iowa

-Minnesota

-Syracuse

-Notre Dame

-U of Florida (Gainsville)

-U of Miami

-Brown

 

Grateful for the company.

[The_Realeo]

For those of us who applied to Ohio State, they're in the championship right now as we speak!  Anyone else watching with me?

[mrvisser]

9 minutes ago, The_Realeo said:

For those of us who applied to Ohio State, they're in the championship right now as we speak!  Anyone else watching with me?

I am, and I really hate Ohio State, so I'm happy to see them losing, even though I'm no Bama fan, either.

[spacedumpster]

2 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

I am, and I really hate Ohio State, so I'm happy to see them losing, even though I'm no Bama fan, either.

As is my right as a native Ohioan who is immeasurably sick of hearing about Ohio State Football for the last 31 years, I hereby dub you an Honorary Ohioan for this statement.