2021 Applicants Forum

[Ydrl]

Received a piece of mail from SJCNY and got really confused and hopeful about an acceptance, but no. It was just to let me know that as of the 8th, they hadn’t received some things. I just submitted on the 6th.

[Starbuck420]

36 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

Received a piece of mail from SJCNY and got really confused and hopeful about an acceptance, but no. It was just to let me know that as of the 8th, they hadn’t received some things. I just submitted on the 6th.

yikes -- so, so weird that they would do this by mail in 2021

[Boomer not Ok]

Hope I'm not one of those "stereotypical" types. Blood Meridian cast a long spell over me. But so did Egan's Goon Squad and Mitchell's Cloud Atlas. ButI know the type, the guy whose memorized Hart Crane's The Bridge and cosplays Bukowski, as though living in a bar is going to magically turn you into a poet.

[mrvisser]

For the record, addressing @Boomer not Ok and @Downtozero, I'm definitely not shitting on Bukowski or Cormac or Kafka themselves, and I was worried it would look that way. It's one of those things where I'm criticizing the fandom rather than the artists, kind of like Rick and Morty. I used them as examples of just the writers that those bro types can be obsessed with. Most of my favorite writers are dead white men, so I wasn't picking on them for political reasons. And @JPReinhold makes a good point about other mediums that I hadn't considered.

[funfettuccine]

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

[Starbuck420]

12 minutes ago, Boomer not Ok said:

Blood Meridian

I get that it's bro lit on some level, but I agree. I don't think that Bukowski is remotely Cormac's peer in the bro canon

[mrvisser]

2 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I think, just to provide a range of who I tried to draw from, I mentioned Woolf, Vonnegut, Steinbeck, and maybe Norman Maclean. 

[Ydrl]

9 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I did mention at least three people I love, plus one faculty member that’s my favorite/I want to work with from each college.

[Downtozero]

8 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

For the record, addressing @Boomer not Ok and @Downtozero, I'm definitely not shitting on Bukowski or Cormac or Kafka themselves, and I was worried it would look that way. It's one of those things where I'm criticizing the fandom rather than the artists, kind of like Rick and Morty. I used them as examples of just the writers that those bro types can be obsessed with. Most of my favorite writers are dead white men, so I wasn't picking on them for political reasons. And @JPReinhold makes a good point about other mediums that I hadn't considered.

I feel you and I have definitely met (and/or dated) the stereotypical Bukowksi and Cormac fans, I guess I just haven't met many Kafka bros in my life. I would even venture to say that I wish I met more.

I also once dated someone whose favorite book was the Fountainhead and who told me he wanted to name his kid "Howard Roark" (huge red flag which I should have heeded)...lest anyone accuse me of not being conversant with the many flavors of lit bros that exist in this world.

8 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I kept making huge changes to my SOP and with each school I applied to, but I mostly avoided listing influences by name. In a couple, the sole author I name-dropped was Flannery OConnor (not by explicitly naming her as an influence, but by quoting an essay she wrote about fiction) and now I feel embarrassed/regretful because she's probably one of the most obvious references you can list in an SOP...sigh.

[NLake]

29 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I mentioned a couple poets and novelists who I feel connected to, and who have encouraged me to ask harder questions about my own writing and what the hell I’m doing with it. I remember being cautioned against mentioning only popular dead authors. First, because lots of people are going to mention them, but also because it’s helpful to show adcoms that you’ve got some awareness of and interest in what’s currently happening in the literary community. I don’t know how important or accurate that is, but the folx who gave me that advice all have MFAs.

Of course, I don’t think it would be helpful advice to follow if it causes someone to veer from their truth. If popular dead guys are the ones who have influenced or impressed or informed a person’s writing the most, I personally feel that applicants should be allowed to share that, and maybe just be sure to show in their writing sample how they are growing/changing/creating from it. 
 

That said, how I personally feel about admissions strategies means absolutely nothing. And I have no way of actually knowing how they feel about the influences applicants mention. Just scraping together bits and pieces of anecdotal and subjective evidence and making big ol’ assumptions over here. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by NLake

[shanbanan]

18 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I mentioned one poet and one sculptor in my SOP. I wanted to mention others but every time I tried to work them in, the statement felt "crowded." In the end, I decided to go with one or two influences that I could really speak to within the confines of the SOP, rather than a long list I couldn't fully unpack. Anyway, I think there are so many different and beautiful ways to tackle an SOP. That's just what worked for me. 

[chrisclements]

I did mention influential authors in my SOP, and now I'm kind of starting to regret it: DFW, Jennifer Egan, Zadie Smith, Pynchon and Denis Johnson. With DFW especially, (seeing as he is quite understandably going out of vogue atm) I think it becomes easier to dismiss someone's writing if their influences smell of lit crit guy (and for the record, I'm doing my best to expand my reading). Then again, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to just lie to the adcom folks. I was in a bit of a bind, to be honest. Hopefully it works out for me

[Ydrl]

I love how this is what we’re doing with our Valentine’s Day. Being worried writing nerds on the internet.

[NLake]

2 minutes ago, chrisclements said:

I did mention influential authors in my SOP, and now I'm kind of starting to regret it: DFW, Jennifer Egan, Zadie Smith, Pynchon and Denis Johnson. With DFW especially, (seeing as he is quite understandably going out of vogue atm) I think it becomes easier to dismiss someone's writing if their influences smell of lit crit guy (and for the record, I'm doing my best to expand my reading). Then again, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to just lie to the adcom folks. I was in a bit of a bind, to be honest. Hopefully it works out for me

I think honesty in your SOP is so important, both for you and for the adcom. I think you made a good choice, and I’m wishing you the best! 

[mrvisser]

I cringe every time I go back and read the part of my SOP where I mentioned influences. Even with all the edits I made to it, I can't believe I didn't make it sound less contrived when I talk about writers I like.

[feralgrad]

43 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I mentioned Shirley Jackson, Octavia Butler, and Nikolai Gogol. Looking back, this didn't suggest that I know what's going on in the current literary world. However, I think it showed that I've read somewhat widely. I connected each author to my own writing goals/aesthetic.

[Starbuck420]

12 minutes ago, chrisclements said:

Then again, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to just lie to the adcom folks.

I think you're right that the best thing to do in these scenarios is just to be honest, which is what you seem to have done, so, good work. IMO, in addition to just being a bad idea, it's also actually very hard to convincingly lie to these people (either directly or by omission) about what you like to read and what inspires you.

It's also true that the tenured professors who read these applications tend to be (unfortunately) much more conservative than most applicants, so I think your average tenured prof is probably going to have, honestly, a slightly less unfavorable view of DFW than many of us have. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule, but ask anyone in any sort humanities or arts discipline: the tenured profs belong to a different class than the rest of us, and as a result tend to have different priorities

11 minutes ago, chrisclements said:

lit crit guy

also, can I ask: what do you mean by this? I think we're all familiar with the guy in your mfa type (already mentioned quite recently in the thread I think) but I'm sure if this is something distinct from that or what

 

 

[woweezowee]

45 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I saw a tweet from Karan Mahajan at Brown saying that the most-referenced author in the SOPs he's reading this year is Carmen Maria Machado. 

[Starbuck420]

4 minutes ago, woweezowee said:

Karan Mahajan at Brown saying that the most-referenced author in the SOPs he's reading this year is Carmen Maria Machado. 

haha nice, good find. I love it when they share this stuff. I remember when I was first considering applying, back in 2016, multiple CNF program heads listed Maggie Nelson as their most referenced author, which is interesting because I don't hear many applicants talk about her these days. Makes me wonder (genuinely, because the culture is so volatile) how CMM will be thought of by applicants in ~5-6 yrs

Edited February 14, 2021 by Starbuck420
edit: clarity

[chrisclements]

3 minutes ago, Starbuck420 said:

I think you're right that the best thing to do in these scenarios is just to be honest, which is what you seem to have done, so, good work. IMO, in addition to just being a bad idea, it's also actually very hard to convincingly lie to these people (either directly or by omission) about what you like to read and what inspires you.

It's also true that the tenured professors who read these applications tend to be (unfortunately) much more conservative than most applicants, so I think your average tenured prof is probably going to have, honestly, a slightly less unfavorable view of DFW than many of us have. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule, but ask anyone in any sort humanities or arts discipline: the tenured profs belong to a different class than the rest of us, and as a result tend to have different priorities

also, can I ask: what do you mean by this? I think we're all familiar with the guy in your mfa type (already mentioned quite recently in the thread I think) but I'm sure if this is something distinct from that or what

 

 

Yeah, honestly i think I'm just overthinking everything. Besides, it's not like i can change it now. I think I can live with what I put down.

And I didn't really mean anything by it, I was just joking around mainly. "Guy in your MFA" etc. etc.

[Starbuck420]

1 minute ago, chrisclements said:

And I didn't really mean anything by it, I was just joking around mainly. "Guy in your MFA" etc. etc.

ah yeah, got it. I was genuinely just wondering if this was an entirely different stereotype lol 

[NLake]

9 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

I cringe every time I go back and read the part of my SOP where I mentioned influences. Even with all the edits I made to it, I can't believe I didn't make it sound less contrived when I talk about writers I like.

I struggled with this, too. I think with the space limitations and all the things I wanted to cover, it was really difficult to go over anything with the depth and sincerity I intended. Sometimes I look at the various versions I turned in and worry that committees will read them and say, “Ok, but who the heck are you?” 
 

I also think we’re being hard on ourselves and our SOPs are in reality really wonderful. Waffling between these sentiments rapidly. 

[Pinskadan]

48 minutes ago, Starbuck420 said:

haha nice, good find. I love it when they share this stuff. I remember when I was first considering applying, back in 2016, multiple CNF program heads listed Maggie Nelson as their most referenced author, which is interesting because I don't hear many applicants talk about her these days. Makes me wonder (genuinely, because the culture is so volatile) how CMM will be thought of by applicants in ~5-6 yrs

The Maggie Nelson thing is honestly really funny-- I included her as an influence in my SOPs (for poetry) because it would be genuinely dishonest to not... I mean, I'm over here planning a Bluets tattoo lol. But everyone in my undergrad was obsessed with her so I was definitely worried it might be overblown.

I also included Eduardo C Corral, Ocean Vuong, and Kate Zambreno (along with a couple younger poets with less name recognition), and tried to name drop at least one faculty member per program that I'd like to work with.

[bettedavisthighs]

2 hours ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I mentioned three writers who have heavily influenced the project I'm working on - I felt like it was important to be specific about the direction I'm trying to work towards and where I might sort of locate myself on that bookshelf, if that makes sense. All were or are women memoirists/essayists, which I am. I'm *hoping* it came off in the tone I intended, which was aspirational and not comparative. 

[Starbuck420]

17 minutes ago, Pinskadan said:

The Maggie Nelson thing is honestly really funny-- I included her as an influence in my SOPs (for poetry) because it would be genuinely dishonest to not... I mean, I'm over here planning a Bluets tattoo lol.

lol Bluets is good! I think 2016-17 was the height of The Argonauts pandemonium, which was maybe why so many CNF people (apparently) mentioned her in their statements