2021 Applicants Forum

[woweezowee]

45 minutes ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I saw a tweet from Karan Mahajan at Brown saying that the most-referenced author in the SOPs he's reading this year is Carmen Maria Machado. 

[Starbuck420]

4 minutes ago, woweezowee said:

Karan Mahajan at Brown saying that the most-referenced author in the SOPs he's reading this year is Carmen Maria Machado. 

haha nice, good find. I love it when they share this stuff. I remember when I was first considering applying, back in 2016, multiple CNF program heads listed Maggie Nelson as their most referenced author, which is interesting because I don't hear many applicants talk about her these days. Makes me wonder (genuinely, because the culture is so volatile) how CMM will be thought of by applicants in ~5-6 yrs

Edited February 14, 2021 by Starbuck420
edit: clarity

[chrisclements]

3 minutes ago, Starbuck420 said:

I think you're right that the best thing to do in these scenarios is just to be honest, which is what you seem to have done, so, good work. IMO, in addition to just being a bad idea, it's also actually very hard to convincingly lie to these people (either directly or by omission) about what you like to read and what inspires you.

It's also true that the tenured professors who read these applications tend to be (unfortunately) much more conservative than most applicants, so I think your average tenured prof is probably going to have, honestly, a slightly less unfavorable view of DFW than many of us have. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule, but ask anyone in any sort humanities or arts discipline: the tenured profs belong to a different class than the rest of us, and as a result tend to have different priorities

also, can I ask: what do you mean by this? I think we're all familiar with the guy in your mfa type (already mentioned quite recently in the thread I think) but I'm sure if this is something distinct from that or what

 

 

Yeah, honestly i think I'm just overthinking everything. Besides, it's not like i can change it now. I think I can live with what I put down.

And I didn't really mean anything by it, I was just joking around mainly. "Guy in your MFA" etc. etc.

[Starbuck420]

1 minute ago, chrisclements said:

And I didn't really mean anything by it, I was just joking around mainly. "Guy in your MFA" etc. etc.

ah yeah, got it. I was genuinely just wondering if this was an entirely different stereotype lol 

[NLake]

9 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

I cringe every time I go back and read the part of my SOP where I mentioned influences. Even with all the edits I made to it, I can't believe I didn't make it sound less contrived when I talk about writers I like.

I struggled with this, too. I think with the space limitations and all the things I wanted to cover, it was really difficult to go over anything with the depth and sincerity I intended. Sometimes I look at the various versions I turned in and worry that committees will read them and say, “Ok, but who the heck are you?” 
 

I also think we’re being hard on ourselves and our SOPs are in reality really wonderful. Waffling between these sentiments rapidly. 

[Pinskadan]

48 minutes ago, Starbuck420 said:

haha nice, good find. I love it when they share this stuff. I remember when I was first considering applying, back in 2016, multiple CNF program heads listed Maggie Nelson as their most referenced author, which is interesting because I don't hear many applicants talk about her these days. Makes me wonder (genuinely, because the culture is so volatile) how CMM will be thought of by applicants in ~5-6 yrs

The Maggie Nelson thing is honestly really funny-- I included her as an influence in my SOPs (for poetry) because it would be genuinely dishonest to not... I mean, I'm over here planning a Bluets tattoo lol. But everyone in my undergrad was obsessed with her so I was definitely worried it might be overblown.

I also included Eduardo C Corral, Ocean Vuong, and Kate Zambreno (along with a couple younger poets with less name recognition), and tried to name drop at least one faculty member per program that I'd like to work with.

[bettedavisthighs]

2 hours ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I mentioned three writers who have heavily influenced the project I'm working on - I felt like it was important to be specific about the direction I'm trying to work towards and where I might sort of locate myself on that bookshelf, if that makes sense. All were or are women memoirists/essayists, which I am. I'm *hoping* it came off in the tone I intended, which was aspirational and not comparative. 

[Starbuck420]

17 minutes ago, Pinskadan said:

The Maggie Nelson thing is honestly really funny-- I included her as an influence in my SOPs (for poetry) because it would be genuinely dishonest to not... I mean, I'm over here planning a Bluets tattoo lol.

lol Bluets is good! I think 2016-17 was the height of The Argonauts pandemonium, which was maybe why so many CNF people (apparently) mentioned her in their statements

[bettedavisthighs]

42 minutes ago, Pinskadan said:

The Maggie Nelson thing is honestly really funny-- I included her as an influence in my SOPs (for poetry) because it would be genuinely dishonest to not... I mean, I'm over here planning a Bluets tattoo lol. But everyone in my undergrad was obsessed with her so I was definitely worried it might be overblown.

I also included Eduardo C Corral, Ocean Vuong, and Kate Zambreno (along with a couple younger poets with less name recognition), and tried to name drop at least one faculty member per program that I'd like to work with.

 this is sort of unrelated to the topic at hand but I just started listening to the podcast The Maris Review (it's so good) and I can't stop thinking about the episode with Kate Zambreno. She is so fucking cool and smart. I could listen to her talk about writing for hours. 

[pattycat]

Just popping in to say I hope everyone’s hanging in there. I’ve been a little too paralyzed with anxiety to participate.
I’m guessing Iowa will notify tomorrow or at least sometime this week (Michener as well), so good luck to all who applied there! 

[mrvisser]

2 minutes ago, pattycat said:

Just popping in to say I hope everyone’s hanging in there. I’ve been a little too paralyzed with anxiety to participate.
I’m guessing Iowa will notify tomorrow or at least sometime this week (Michener as well), so good luck to all who applied there! 

Whoa really? Shit; better get myself in order.

[cecsav]

5 hours ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I did. Specifically Taneum Bambrick, Marie Howe, Sharon Olds, Ruth Williams, and Naomi Shihab Nye. 

[funfettuccine]

4 hours ago, feralgrad said:

I mentioned Shirley Jackson, Octavia Butler, and Nikolai Gogol. Looking back, this didn't suggest that I know what's going on in the current literary world. However, I think it showed that I've read somewhat widely. I connected each author to my own writing goals/aesthetic.

Interesting. I'd heard it's "good" to show you're well-read/in tune with what's going on in the literary landscape today, but I also think it's a useless exercise to try to make the application process into a game that is possible to win by doing the "right" things wherever possible. By which I mean it makes sense to name people you actually care about, whether they're dead, obvious, whatever.

I mentioned Curtis Sittenfeld, Ling Ma, Halle Butler, Mary Gaitskill, and Ottessa Moshfegh everywhere, I think, and I'm pretty sure I threw Elif Batuman into one longer SOP. My hope is that someone will read that after reading my sample and be like, "OK, I get it," but honestly, who TF knows.

Edited February 14, 2021 by funfettuccine

[sylviaplate]

5 hours ago, funfettuccine said:

Did anyone actually mention their influences in their apps? I threw a few in my SOPs... curious what other people did, and if you mentioned anyone, who they were!

I did - a lot of the articles/tips I read about SOPs suggested it, as it gives the adcoms a good sense of who you are as a reader, which of course influences you as a writer. I mentioned Kim Addonizio, Sharon Olds, Hanif Abdurraqib, and I think Rita Dove. Looking back, I wish I'd just included one or two so it didn't seem like I was just giving a laundry list to seem widely read, but no going back!

I only name-checked a prof. at one school (Khadijah Queen at CU Boulder) - I figure they can spot a suck-up pretty easily, so if I couldn't honestly say that a professor had a big impact on me or sparked my curiosity, I left it out. (Not a dig on any professors at the programs to which I applied, but rather I've only read their writing that's available for free online and can't speak to their wider body of work). 

Oh, and I used a Mary Karr quote about memory/reality relating back to my writing interests. Felt a little schmooze-y to use in my Syracuse app, but at that point in the app process I was too exhausted to change it.

[eternalwhitenights]

5 hours ago, feralgrad said:

I mentioned Shirley Jackson, Octavia Butler, and Nikolai Gogol. Looking back, this didn't suggest that I know what's going on in the current literary world. However, I think it showed that I've read somewhat widely. I connected each author to my own writing goals/aesthetic.

Um, hello, we might be soulmates? I'm looking at my copy of "Kindred" on my bookshelf as I type this, and I majored in Russian Studies pretty much precisely because I wanted to be able to read Dostoyevsky (and other Russian authors) in the original someday. Unfortunately, I haven't ventured onto Gogol himself yet, but Dead Souls is 1000% on my to-read list.

[Ydrl]

2 hours ago, pattycat said:

Just popping in to say I hope everyone’s hanging in there. I’ve been a little too paralyzed with anxiety to participate.
I’m guessing Iowa will notify tomorrow or at least sometime this week (Michener as well), so good luck to all who applied there! 

 

2 hours ago, mrvisser said:

Whoa really? Shit; better get myself in order.

Wait, I emailed Michener and they said end of February early March. Not quite there yet. Hold your horses for Michener at least.

[rcsteel]

3 hours ago, pattycat said:

Just popping in to say I hope everyone’s hanging in there. I’ve been a little too paralyzed with anxiety to participate.
I’m guessing Iowa will notify tomorrow or at least sometime this week (Michener as well), so good luck to all who applied there! 

Where did you hear this from? I’m both excited and terrified of the prospect of this being true.

[pattycat]

Just now, rcsteel said:

Where did you hear this from? I’m both excited and terrified of the prospect of this being true.

Don’t worry—I’m not actually in the know. I’m just basing it on past years. 

[anna23]

hi! just wondering if anyone can provide more info on the stereotypical "Bukowski mfa bro"? Bukowski is one of my favorite authors and it's interesting to see people mention those who read him as pretentious? just wanted to see more about that and why he falls into the stereotype? I guess I just honestly I haven't really heard that from anyone. I mostly hear about 'infinite jest' and others shitting on people who love it. I guess it's all really dumb in a way, but, now I'm wondering if people view me negatively when I mention my love for Bukowski. 

also I love Nikolai Gogol! I'm a Russian speaker myself so I find Russian authors to be extraordinary and pretty dark to be honest (which I like). Reading Gogol's and Tolstoy and Dostovesky's works in Russian is particularly meaningful and the English translation doesn't really hold up as much but those works are remarkable for sure in any language. anyways! just my two cents!  hope everyone is hanging in there. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by anna23

[largeheartedboy]

4 hours ago, bettedavisthighs said:

 this is sort of unrelated to the topic at hand but I just started listening to the podcast The Maris Review (it's so good) and I can't stop thinking about the episode with Kate Zambreno. She is so fucking cool and smart. I could listen to her talk about writing for hours. 

The Maris Review is one of two podcasts I regularly listen to. The host is the funniest person on Twitter, and is responsible for Slaughterhouse 90210, the genius Tumblr that matched TV & movie stills with literary quotes (and spawned a book).

The other podcast I love is BOMB's FUSE (which hasn't been updated since June), where artists/authors/musicians interview each other. The first, featuring authors Mira Jacob and Scott Cheshire, is a great place to start.

[TroyMcClure]

3 minutes ago, anna23 said:

hi! just wondering if anyone can provide more info on the stereotypical "Bukowski mfa bro"? Bukowski is one of my favorite authors and it's interesting to see people mention those who read him as pretentious? just wanted to see more about that and why he falls into the stereotype? I guess I just honestly I haven't really heard that from anyone. I mostly hear about 'infinite jest' and others shitting on people who love it. I guess it's all really dumb in a way, but, now I'm wondering if people view me negatively when I mention my love for Bukowski. 

also I love Nikolai Gogol! I'm a Russian speaker myself so I find Russian authors to be extraordinary and pretty dark to be honest (which I like). Reading Gogol's and Tolstoy and Dostovesky's works in Russian is particularly meaningful and the English translation doesn't really hold up as much but those works are remarkable for sure in any language. anyways! just my two cents!  hope everyone is hanging in there. 

I hear poets say that he has inspired a lot of talentless people. And they think his lineation is crap. But I'm a fiction writer/some numb nuts on the internet, so I'm not the best person to judge his lineation.

[mrvisser]

2 minutes ago, anna23 said:

hi! just wondering if anyone can provide more info on the stereotypical "Bukowski mfa bro"? Bukowski is one of my favorite authors and it's interesting to see people mention those who read him as pretentious? just wanted to see more about that and why he falls into the stereotype? I guess I just honestly I haven't really heard that from anyone. I mostly hear about 'infinite jest' and others shitting on people who love it. I guess it's all really dumb in a way, but, now I'm wondering if people view me negatively when I mention my love for Bukowski. 

also I love Nikolai Gogol! I'm a Russian speaker myself so I find Russian authors to be extraordinary and pretty dark to be honest (which I like). Reading Gogol's and Tolstoy and Dostovesky's works in Russian is particularly meaningful and the English translation doesn't really hold up as much but those works are remarkable for sure in any language. anyways! just my two cents!  hope everyone is hanging in there. 

I think I picked Bukowski because of a humorous Vice article called "The A to Z of Softbois." Here's the entry on him:

"Fun activity: Spend a particularly disappointing night of candle-lit fingering on a softboi’s floor mattress and wonder how he’s got this far in life without seemingly ever satisfying a sexual partner. Then spot a well-thumbed copy of Charles Bukowski’s Women on the floor next to said mattress and let the hollowing despair wash over you."

 

Just to be clear, I've never read Bukowski and don't think badly of people who read him. I don't really think badly of anybody that's a fan of a particular author, unless it's Ayn Rand. I also don't think badly of Cormac McCarthy, who I also mentioned. I actually like McCarthy a lot. I just kind of pulled examples out randomly, regarding who I thought bro-types might obsess over. David Foster Wallace is definitely a typical example, but I think he's pretty cool as well. I guess I kind of opened a can of worms with my argument.

[eternalwhitenights]

4 minutes ago, anna23 said:

hi! just wondering if anyone can provide more info on the stereotypical "Bukowski mfa bro"? Bukowski is one of my favorite authors and it's interesting to see people mention those who read him as pretentious? just wanted to see more about that and why he falls into the stereotype? I guess I just honestly I haven't really heard that from anyone. I mostly hear about 'infinite jest' and others shitting on people who love it. I guess it's all really dumb in a way, but, now I'm wondering if people view me negatively when I mention my love for Bukowski. 

also I love Nikolai Gogol! I'm a Russian speaker myself so I find Russian authors to be extraordinary and pretty dark to be honest (which I like). Reading Gogol's and Tolstoy and Dostovesky's works in Russian is particularly meaningful and the English translation doesn't really hold up as much but those works are remarkable for sure in any language. anyways! just my two cents!  hope everyone is hanging in there. 

Я говорю русскый язык тоже!! Очень приятно! ?

[anna23]

3 minutes ago, TroyMcClure said:

I hear poets say that he has inspired a lot of talentless people. And they think his lineation is crap. But I'm a fiction writer/some numb nuts on the internet, so I'm not the best person to judge his lineation.

Ohhhh, interesting... hmn. I appreciate your response, I like to see other people's viewpoints so it's interesting to see what others think!

 

2 minutes ago, mrvisser said:

I think I picked Bukowski because of a humorous Vice article called "The A to Z of Softbois." Here's the entry on him:

"Fun activity: Spend a particularly disappointing night of candle-lit fingering on a softboi’s floor mattress and wonder how he’s got this far in life without seemingly ever satisfying a sexual partner. Then spot a well-thumbed copy of Charles Bukowski’s Women on the floor next to said mattress and let the hollowing despair wash over you."

 

Just to be clear, I've never read Bukowski and don't think badly of people who read him. I don't really think badly of anybody that's a fan of a particular author, unless it's Ayn Rand. I also don't think badly of Cormac McCarthy, who I also mentioned. I actually like McCarthy a lot. I just kind of pulled examples out randomly, regarding who I thought bro-types might obsess over. David Foster Wallace is definitely a typical example, but I think he's pretty cool as well. I guess I kind of opened a can of worms with my argument.

Oh, yeah I didn't think you were thinking badly! I'm going to read that Vice article because just that excerpt alone is really funny. I must be that person because I definitely have his copies on my bookshelf front and center.... haha.

[anna23]

2 minutes ago, eternalwhitenights said:

Я говорю русскый язык тоже!! Очень приятно! ?

Ой да! Привет :)  Приятно познакомиться!