Baby on the way

[LittleDarlings]

Didn't know it was bad to want to be MARRIED and RESPONSIBLE before getting pregnant.. Hmmm what an awful goal.

Anyways I think I said it was possible for the OP to do this I just said it wasn't responsible to do.. Is that wrong? I mean in my post so many people said "oh wait wait" so.... Yeah. Like I said I'm sure he can do it, he has no choice at this point so I'm sure he will figure it out.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Pinkster12

[St Andrews Lynx]

Support? Umm I think I was pretty supportive in the first post. I said "good luck" that's about as supportive as I can be with such irresponsible behavior.

You want to get an MSW in Social Work.

You have mentioned an interest in counselling.

The first thing you do when a forum member says "X has happened - I need advice." is to respond with "I can't believe you were so irresponsible as to let X happen!"

...Does anybody else notice a problem here?

 

Pinkster, if you want to last 5 minutes in a Social Work program, you need to accept a couple of things. 

• When people tell you "X has happened (note the past tense) and I need help dealing with X" it is completely useless to berate them about how stupid they were for allowing X to happen. They can't turn back the clock. They can't undo what has already happened. For that reason alone it is horrible to condemn instead of assist them.
• In the course of your Social Work job, you will come across clients who have made TERRIBLE lifestyle decisions. This post is actually an example of the best-case scenario - somebody does everything right (use contraceptives, is in a steady relationship) and Thing X has happened anyway. In the course of your Social Work job you are going to come across clients who have consciously made a series AWFUL decisions: they've done everything wrong, their lifestyle choices have been ill-informed to the point where you have to suspend your disbelief that they actually did *that*. Their choices are based on principles you fundamentally disagree with from the core of your being. THESE PEOPLE NONETHELESS ARE COMING TO YOU FOR CONSTRUCTIVE, NON-JUDGEMENTAL ADVICE. If you cannot put aside your narrow-minded prejudices, inability to empathise or tone of moral superiority then you shouldn't be a Social Worker. Full stop.

 

...I can't believe I even had to write this.

[LittleDarlings]

I know what social work entails I always used to work at a family planning clinic so I saw people like this all the time and it was fine. I have the ability to put my personal feelings aside BUT at this moment I'm not a Social worker so.... I can say what I want. Even my therapist has blatantly questioned stuff I have said to her and she has a high client base so I'm not SUPER worried.

You can't just co-sign what everyone says, if you are looking for guidance then you have to give an opinion. I'm not going to lie I didn't provide a ton of guidance to the OP but I'm sure he will figure it out.. I mean honestly what are his options? He HAS to figure it out.

"Jelly"... Ok then. More like honest

Edited December 18, 2013 by Pinkster12

[memyselfandcoffee]

well i know this getting off topic, but i think pinkster12 is jelly

 

to OP,Congrats, people always say there is never a right time to have children. think in the future which decision you will regret more. only you and your girlfreind can honestly ( and be honest, not PC) answer that question.

it will be hard work, my sister has two small kids and has demanding jjob (expected to work 12 hr/days) and while she is tired and run off her feet, I know she doesn't regret her kids for a second.

 

 

good luck with your decision

[Maziana]

Pinkster... your comments have been kind of inappropriate.

 

I didn't want to derail the conversation, but I don't think it's cool  to 1) not provide advice or support, only unhelpful judgment in a totally understandable/common situation, 2) assuming that the OP has no options and should have to figure out everything on his own, 3) ignoring scientific data, undermining other people's experiences with birth control, and relying on your own prejudices and anecdotal experience about birth control...

 

You're allowed to think what you want, but being a bit more empathetic or at least willing to consider other's experiences/points of views would make for better and more on-topic discussion. 

Ok, sorry for the derail. Again, good luck, OP. 

[LittleDarlings]

Common situation? Umm sorry that doesn't commonly happen to me or people I know. Again I can only go by what I know and have seen. We all know how babies are made (at least I would think we do) so I don't understand the excuses. I honestly don't. I can acknowledge that pregnancy can happen when using contraceptives (rarely but it happens) I didn't ignore scientific proof, I'm saying it doesn't happen as much as people claim. We don't even know that happened to the OP. As far as his options he sounds like he intends to keep it he asked how hard it would be or something like that... So obviously he intends to have a kid now. I'm sure he will figure out if it's doable... If he is already in the program and already got a pregnant girlfriend at some point he will figure out if it's doable right? So no he doesn't have a ton of options. I get that it was probably wrong to say but I mean sorry the truth sucks sometimes.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Pinkster12

[MrPootawn]

Hello Everyone,

 

Thank you very much for the advice/support and words of encouragement.  It's great to hear about other examples of grad students completing their degrees while having a child.

 

I don't mean to feed the trolls but since Pinkster hijacked this thread I'll make a couple of points in response.

 

1.  I am doing my PhD in molecular biology, and I did my BSc in biology.  I am quite familiar with how reproduction works, but thanks for the reminder.

2.  we were using protection (BC) and it was being used as instructed

 

Thank you again everyone and please continue on with any advice or examples, they are much appreciated.

[gellert]

Congratulations!! A good friend of mine, now a TT professor at an R1 university, had a child during dissertation phase of grad school.  Both he and his wife graduated on time and got jobs at the same university (different fields).  It can definitely be done!   My friend and his wife have no regrets, I know.

Edited December 18, 2013 by gellert

[LittleDarlings]

Lol a PhD in bio and unable to protect yourself from an unplanned pregnancy... That a shame.

[juilletmercredi]

Congratulations MrPootawn!

 

I personally am childless, but there are several people in my doctoral program (at all stages) who have children, mostly babies.  Almost all of them had the baby after beginning grad school.  Think of it as having a baby during a very demanding job - there are plenty of high-powered lawyers and doctors out there who have babies, so why not a grad student?

 

In addition, I am dissertating currently and I always joke that if I wanted to have a baby during grad school, this is the best time.  I work from home 90% of the time while writing, and I can also analyze my data from home (social scientist).  I will say that you do need some quiet time free from distractions to write, so I do know some dissertating friends who have engaged a babysitter 3 days a week or use daycare services a few days so they can get some solid writing time.  You may also find yourself writing later at night after the baby is asleep (so maybe frm 7 or 8 pm to 12 or 1 am) or early in the morning before he/she wakes up (although good luck with that; babies wake up mad early).

 

I also know med students who have had children, either before or during their programs.  I have some med school friends and they say that while it's time consuming, it's not as overly onerous as people make it out to be.

 

Good luck!  I hope you and your girlfriend take some time to just enjoy her pregnancy, if you decided to keep it.

[perfectionist]

Congrats! There is never an "easy" time to have a child. I know 3 women in the grad program at my undergrad that have had or are having children (2 of which were on purpose) during their PhD and they are still on track for graduation. They have the support of their husbands and seemingly have the support of their advisers.

[nohika]

Common situation? Umm sorry that doesn't commonly happen to me or people I know. Again I can only go by what I know and have seen. We all know how babies are made (at least I would think we do) so I don't understand the excuses. I honestly don't. I can acknowledge that pregnancy can happen when using contraceptives (rarely but it happens) I didn't ignore scientific proof, I'm saying it doesn't happen as much as people claim. We don't even know that happened to the OP. As far as his options he sounds like he intends to keep it he asked how hard it would be or something like that... So obviously he intends to have a kid now. I'm sure he will figure out if it's doable... If he is already in the program and already got a pregnant girlfriend at some point he will figure out if it's doable right? So no he doesn't have a ton of options. I get that it was probably wrong to say but I mean sorry the truth sucks sometimes.

 

See, sweetie, what you need to understand is that your experiences do not generalize well to the rest of the world. That's how stereotypes are created and perpetuated. One of my close friends got pregnant while she was both on BC and using a condom. Gasp! She obviously is a terrible person, right? Not a good mother to an adorable 4-year-old. Oh, and she's not married!

 

Also, your comments about being 'married' and 'responsible' are adorable. Guess what! You can be married and the most irresponsible arsehat on the planet. Marriage does not make you responsible. In quite a few cases, getting married is the worst decision you can make. Staying married because of children can be an equally horrific decision.

 

You can have your opinions. You can have your way of planning your life, and your perceptions. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM MORE RIGHT/BETTER/SMARTER/etc THAN EVERYONE ELSE'S. Just because you wouldn't have kids before getting married DOES NOT make someone who does so irresponsible, uneducated, or liars. The OP seems to have a stable, loving relationship. Just because they don't have a piece of paper that claims them legally binded means nothing.

 

I kind of hope you never get into an MSW program and go into counseling because I think you would do a lot more harm than good with these kind of attitudes. Especially with the changes in society's population today.

 

To the OP, it's hard, yeah. But I know several people in my program with kids (two are pregnant with their second) and they're both doing well. The first two years of med school are actually better than the last two when it comes to having kids (I have quite a few med student friends), so that's something to take into consideration if you want more. Congrats and best of luck to you in the future.

[LittleDarlings]

Maybe you didn't notice but I was already accepted into one 

Anyways I didn't say you HAVE to be married to have kids, it is ideal though.  The whole point is broken condoms and failed BC aren't THAT common.  Like I said I have used both and I'm not pregnant so...

 

The OP is in school and having a kid with a crap income... yeah that is super responsible..

Edited December 18, 2013 by Pinkster12

[nohika]

Maybe you didn't notice but I was already accepted into one 

Anyways I didn't say you HAVE to be married to have kids, it is ideal though.  The whole point is broken condoms and failed BC aren't THAT common.  Like I said I have used both and I'm not pregnant so...

 

The OP is in school and having a kid with a crap income... yeah that is super responsible..

 

Who are you to say what's 'ideal', though? What gives you the right to judge the OP for what YOU consider bad decisions?

 

The answer is NO ONE.

 

And they're not common, no. But statistically, SOMEONE has to lose the lottery, and it looks like the OP did. Just because you haven't had it happen doesn't mean it hasn't. For example, I could make this claim: "Oh my gosh, I drank OJ and don't have cancer! That must mean orange juice prevents cancer." See how stupid it sounds?

 

I'm just shaking my head at you right now, I'm afraid. The OP actually has more of an income PLUS a stable relationship than a lot of people have kids. Can you even step back to gain some perspective to see exactly how judgmental you're coming across?

 

The OP is being /incredibly/ responsible. Shit happens. And the OP and his girlfriend are dealing with it in a mature, responsible way by accepting mistakes happen and preparing to take care of the child. That's far better than sitting at your computer trashing someone else for not making the same decision you would have made for YOUR life and YOUR body. Not everyone is the same. I hope you figure that out sooner rather than later.

 

And congrats. Good luck with all you'll learn. Maybe some of it might sink in.

[LittleDarlings]

Ok sorry I don't make mistakes like that... Not using a backup form of contraceptive is pretty irresponsible but hey whatever. I'm sure you were there to see your friends birth control methods huh? She would never lie to save face right? I mean it looks way better to say "oh I was on all this birth control and using condoms and everything and STILL got pregnant" than to say "oops I'm irresponsible"

Edited December 18, 2013 by Pinkster12

[nohika]

Ok sorry I don't make mistakes like that... Not using a backup form of contraceptive is pretty irresponsible but hey whatever. I'm sure you were there to see your friends birth control methods huh? She would never lie to save face right? I mean it looks way better to say "oh I was on all this birth control and using condoms and everything and STILL got pregnant" than to say "oops I'm irresponsible"

 

If you don't trust your friends to tell you the truth, then I'm really sorry for the people you might call friends (if you have any). Not everyone needs to lie to feel better about themselves or their decisions. Not everyone needs to worry about "saving face" when they have people who care about them and would accept them for who they are and what they've done no matter whether it was a genuine mistake or an accident. Sometimes you have to take things at face value and trust the person you're talking with. That's what friends do, after all. They trust each other.

 

I'm done with this thread, at least for now. I very much hope that you gain some perspective before you acquire the degree you're seeking because I believe it would benefit you a great deal.

[biotechie]

The OP is in school and having a kid with a crap income... yeah that is super responsible..

 

I don't think you know how funding for most molecular biology programs works.... He probably has a pretty decent stipend (larger than a MS program or other fields as far as PhD programs go) with healthcare and his girlfriend also has a job. That sounds pretty good to me, and I"m sure they can work it out. They even have a house and two cars. I'm in a molecular biology PhD program and I'm fairly sure if I had to, I could support a child and not be destitute on my stipend... and that's not even including or thinking about the income my boyfriend has. Am I going to get pregnant? Probably not, because that would require him to be a lot closer than 13 hours away and that I was no longer infertile (according to doctors, but I haven't "tested" it). However, I could deal with it if it did occur.

 

On top of the fact that he and his girlfriend have a stable income and aren't accruing debt because of his school, once you pass the first couple of years of a molecular biology program, your coursework consists almost entirely of lab work and seminars. You design the experiments and work on generating something new in the field to publish and generate your dissertation (and hopefully a few papers). He can work his own schedule as long as he generates his data, and at that point it is more like working a job with weird hours than going to classes all day.

 

As far as maturity and responsibility goes, as a 4th year, the youngest this guy probably would be is about 25, but these days, lots of us are older than 21 when we start. On a daily basis, he may handle things that could be really dangerous if he wasn't handling it responsibly (i.e. radiation, human cancer cell lines, etc). He has had to have responsibility to adequately pursue his studies... or he wouldn't have made it this far.

 

This means that it is possible for him to be the type of supportive father he will want to be, and I have no doubt that he will successfully graduate AND be an awesome dad.

Edited December 18, 2013 by biotechie

[LittleDarlings]

Haha I have friends thanks, funny enough my friend is going through this same thing right now. She JUST found out she's pregnant and I have actually been pretty decent with her even though I think she's making the most awful decision but whatever. That's the whole reason this post even stood out to me and I felt the need to say something. People are just so irresponsible nowadays.. I'm so glad I'm not. I haven't had so much as a pregnancy scare so I just don't get it but whatever.

Well I'm sorry you're infertile that's really sad... But anyways why would anyone want to be pregnant in school, in a PhD program.. Whatever

Edited December 18, 2013 by Pinkster12

[Monochrome Spring]

 

 

You are being both blatantly rude and ignorant, and don't try to defend yourself by saying it's "truth" because you are giving opinionated comments that contradict science. Just because the OP is having an unexpected child does not mean that he doesn't know how they are made, does not mean that he doesn't know how to use birth control, and does not mean that he isn't looking forward to this new child. It does mean that his girlfriend got pregnant when they didn't expect it. Despite the low probability of getting pregnant while using birth control, it can happen, and did.

 

Since you don't appear to know how statistics work, I'll explain it for you: even if there is only a low probability of something happening to a person, there are still people that it happens to, as is the case here. That doesn't make those people irresponsible. The OP wasn't even trying to get opinions on this unexpected child's conception. He wants to know how to manage a child in graduate school.

 

Maybe you should take a look at yourself before you give someone else life advice. You are obviously at a different point in your life than the OP, and how you want to live your life is irrelevant. Not only are you younger, you're also less mature both emotionally and academically. In addition to that, you seem to have a warped perception of what being married and having children entails. As someone who is seeking graduate school as a way to get a husband, you obviously have no idea what it means to be in a PhD program or be in a long-term relationship, which includes owning a home and being relatively financially secure. I've also just become aware that you have poor reading comprehension, as you somehow think that the original poster has a "crap income".

 

I agree with Nohika that you should never become a social worker. You are obviously far too insecure with yourself to make sound judgements about anyone else's life, and you will probably do more harm than good.

[LittleDarlings]

Lol monochrome it's a little late on the social work thing.. Like I said I'm glad I didn't make THOSE mistakes.

 

I also never said that I was going to school to find a husband solely.  I am going to school to pursue a career, finding a husband is a major want but I mean I could find that before I start a program and be just as satisfied. 

Edited December 18, 2013 by Pinkster12

[juilletmercredi]

I initially had planned to follow the mantra of "If we ignore her, perhaps she will stop commenting and go away."

 

I don't wish that Pinkster12 never gets an MSW.  As she mentioned, she already got into a program.  Furthermore, we were all 22 once and we all probably believed things that would embarrass us now.  She has 2 years in the program and then many years to grow and mature.  Perhaps one day she'll look back on this thread and feel ashamed of herself.  And perhaps she won't, but maybe she'll be an excellent counselor in several other ways.

 

I do want to address two things, though.  One - even when used correctly most of the time, condoms have a 14% failure rate and hormonal birth control pills, a 5% failure rate.  There are 3.2 million unintended pregnancies in the country every year - half of all pregnancies.  That means about 5% of women will have an unintended pregnancy in their lifetime. - if you have 10 female friends, 2 of them will likely have an unintended pregnancy at some point in their life.  And since a little less than half (48%) of those pregnancies occur in women who were using birth control consistently and correctly, one of those friends will have been on birth control when it happens.  That's not even including the women who were using birth control, but not perfectly.  So yes, they are THAT common.  I have a friend who got pregnant after she was sterilized!  And I know several women who got pregnant using IUDs, which have a less than 1% failure rate.  It happens.

 

In addition to that, many women who have abortions choose to tell no one about it or only a few friends.  My closest friends don't know about mine (I got pregnant...on birth control!); it happened before I even met them.  I didn't tell my college friends at the time either.  So it's entirely possible that some of your friends who you think have not gotten pregnant on birth control actually have and you just don't know it.

 

Two, there's nothing irresponsible about getting pregnant with a lower income.  The OP says that he owns a home and 2 vehicles with his partner, so I'm guessing that at the least they are middle-income.  They also have family support.  But furthermore, there are many many people in the world who live on very low incomes.  As a social worker, you will be working with them almost exclusively.  Everyone has the right to have children, and it is not at all helpful (especially as a future social worker) to tell those people that they should have been "more responsible," first of all since they often don't have the resources to be what you consider "responsible" (birth control requires access to a doctor, transportation to get there, and money for prescriptions; condoms require money and transportation too); second of all because the child is already here and can't be put back by your finger-wagging; and third and most importantly because there's nothing irresponsible about having children when you're poor.  Either way the OP needs help now, not five weeks ago.

Edited December 18, 2013 by juilletmercredi

[Pol]

Somebody please throw a bowling ball at that pinkster troll.

[LittleDarlings]

Ok but who got the OP into the predicament that he is in? Like honestly? 

 

I get the whole it COULD happen, I don't know anyone it has happened to but I get it, it happens but still.. It's just annoying like seriously people get themselves in these positions and then freak out, whose fault is it.. honestly. 

 

I have thought a lot about the fact that when I am working I am going to see people like this and I am obviously going to have to tell them how "oh it's ok blah blah" and that does worry me BUT there are other aspects I like and I won't have to deal with totally irresponsible people all day every single day I figure. 

Edited December 18, 2013 by Pinkster12

[LittleDarlings]

I'm not even going to sit up and lie about this anymore because it's dumb, I'm just jealous.  I have no control over being so jealous.  I wasn't lying about never having a scare or being responsible.  For the most part I have always been fairly responsible when it came to BC and condom usage and even in the very VERY RARE times that I may not have been the absolute MOST responsible person I still didn't get pregnant, but I always did things to prevent getting pregnant like taking a Plan B if I needed. Anyways I don't even know the OP I don't really care that much.  I still think that if you don't want kids then be careful but whatever. This post popped up literally like 5 mins after my friend told me she is pregnant and so it was definitely not my day.  I don't feel bad about what I said though and I'm still going to school for social work and counseling.

 

And yes I understand how "long term relationships" work and I don't care a lot about PhD programs because.. I'm never going to pursue one.  Just being honest. 

[ratlab]

You are infuriatingly ignorant and you are going to make a terrible social worker.  Do the whole world a favor and go on eharmony.com to find your spouse and have your 1950's lifestyle marriage and baby rather than add a horrible counselor to the lives of the people who need it most. You need a wake up call.

 

As for the OP, I wish you all the best. I am sure it will work out :-).

Edited December 18, 2013 by ratlab