Fall 2018 Applicants

[wcw-phd]

On 2/10/2018 at 4:43 PM, telkanuru said:

The quality of their scholarship has little to do with whether they're entering into important contemporary debates, contributing to the development of theoretical discussions, or trying to bridge gaps to other fields and sub-disciplines. I can give you specific examples, but that feels unnecessarily mean; look at the work their students do

Just out of curiosity... Which important contemporary debates do you feel WashU is failing to enter into?

[NotAlice]

2 hours ago, telkanuru said:

Yup. 

I didn't badmouth their scholarship. Their work is generally very well done, as one might expect from well-regarded professors like Madden and Pegg. What I actually said is that it's generally very old fashioned. The quality of their scholarship has little to do with whether they're entering into important contemporary debates, contributing to the development of theoretical discussions, or trying to bridge gaps to other fields and sub-disciplines. 

They're certainly not one of the "most high quality and prestigious history programs in the Midwest". The midwest has Chicago, Notre Dame, and Michigan. Next to none of these does WUSTL even hold a candle. 

Just as an FYI, Madden is at Saint Louis University, not WUSTL. 

[dr. t]

12 minutes ago, NotAlice said:

Just as an FYI, Madden is at Saint Louis University, not WUSTL. 

Derp. I was thinking mostly of Pegg, but I clearly elided Madden into that milieu.

Edited February 11, 2018 by telkanuru

[dr. t]

56 minutes ago, wcw-phd said:

Just out of curiosity... Which important contemporary debates do you feel Wash U is failing to enter into?

If you want me to review you dissertation on an open forum, I'm afraid I'll need to get some sort of credit for the service hours.

Seriously, though, as I said above, I'm not going to tear apart anyone's diss here. That would be pretty gauche. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by telkanuru

[wcw-phd]

1 hour ago, telkanuru said:

If you want me to review you dissertation on an open forum, I'm afraid I'll need to get some sort of credit for the service hours.

Seriously, though, as I said above, I'm not going to tear apart anyone's diss here. That would be pretty gauche. 

Your unwillingness to elucidate your remarks makes everything you've said previously in this thread pretty poor form. Perhaps it would be good practice for you to know what you're talking about before going around and maligning other programs and students.

Edited February 11, 2018 by wcw-phd

[WhaleshipEssex]

13 minutes ago, wcw-phd said:

Your unwillingness to elucidate your remarks makes everything you've said previously in this thread pretty poor form. Perhaps it would be good practice for you to know what you're talking about before going around and maligning other programs and students.

I'll grant you that an example would probably do well to bolster what @telkanuru is saying. However, it's also not hard to distinguish between outdated scholarship and more contemporary work, especially if it's in your related field.

[dr. t]

I don't know how to give an example without making an example of someone, and I'm not going to do that, particularly since I should have never gone down this road in the first place. That's my bad. The original point was here:

https://forum.thegradcafe.com/topic/94487-fall-2018-applicants/?page=45&tab=comments#comment-1058555534

and it was that shitting on a program just because they rejected you (and that they were honest in why) isn't terribly mature or useful. This whole discussion of WUSTL's doctoral program is totally off track. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by telkanuru

[psstein]

2 hours ago, telkanuru said:

If you want me to review you dissertation on an open forum, I'm afraid I'll need to get some sort of credit for the service hours.

Seriously, though, as I said above, I'm not going to tear apart anyone's diss here. That would be pretty gauche. 

I don't think you have to name names, but more discuss broader trends. For example "students generally don't engage with this historiographical approach" or something like it.

For example, HoS dissertations rarely engage technical aspects of chemistry/physics/biology/astronomy anymore. There are still some people doing technical work, but it's less common with each passing year.

[TheHessianHistorian]

11 minutes ago, telkanuru said:

I don't know how to give an example without making an example of someone, and I'm not going to do that, particularly since I should have never gone down this road in the first place. That's my bad. The original point was here:

https://forum.thegradcafe.com/topic/94487-fall-2018-applicants/?page=45&tab=comments#comment-1058555534

and it was that shitting on a program just because they rejected you (and that they were honest in why) isn't terribly mature or useful. This whole discussion of WUSTL's doctoral program is totally off track. 

Nice straw man. When did I ever "shit" on Arizona's program? I maintain that they are a very good program, and I've never said anything otherwise. I'm just surprised and confused that, with my credentials and experience, they told me that I lack a "track record and foundation in Early Modern European History." I also expressed disagreement with you that Arizona is "a tier above" WUSTL, and thought it weird that WUSTL felt I was "fully qualified" (in their words) for admission into a doctoral program, while Arizona felt that after two Bachelor's degrees and 7 years' work in the field I wasn't yet qualified for entry into a Master's degree program.

Edited February 11, 2018 by TheHessianHistorian

[WhaleshipEssex]

On 2/10/2018 at 9:42 PM, telkanuru said:

I don't know how to give an example without making an example of someone, and I'm not going to do that, particularly since I should have never gone down this road in the first place. That's my bad. The original point was here:

https://forum.thegradcafe.com/topic/94487-fall-2018-applicants/?page=45&tab=comments#comment-1058555534

and it was that shitting on a program just because they rejected you (and that they were honest in why) isn't terribly mature or useful. This whole discussion of WUSTL's doctoral program is totally off track. 

To be clear, I don't think anyone was expecting a spit-roasting of someone's dissertation. I agree, that's bad form.

[TheHessianHistorian]

3 minutes ago, WhaleshipEssex said:

Have you considered that you're reading too much into what might be standard issue rejection and acceptance letters?

That quote came from a personalized email from the Arizona DGS after I got the standard issue rejection letter and inquired about weak spots in my application and how I might improve my application.

[WhaleshipEssex]

That very well may be, but as a general rule I wouldn't read too much into the language of rejection letters.

[TheHessianHistorian]

3 minutes ago, WhaleshipEssex said:

That very well may be, but as a general rule I wouldn't read too much into the language of rejection letters.

Like I said, the quote about my lacking a track record in early modern European history did not come from the rejection letter. It came from personal correspondence with the UofA director of graduate studies.

[WhaleshipEssex]

All I'm saying is that they could be working off a prepared list of responses.

[psstein]

37 minutes ago, TheHessianHistorian said:

That quote came from a personalized email from the Arizona DGS after I got the standard issue rejection letter and inquired about weak spots in my application and how I might improve my application.

As I said several pages back, I received a similar remark from Hopkins HoS last year. It was also from their department chair.

It may be as simple as a program balance issue. Had I been accepted to Hopkins HoS, they'd have had 60 percent of the incoming cohort be early modernists.

[Basura]

6 hours ago, telkanuru said:

I'm really not, and I would say that I have a substantially better handle on this than you, just given where we are in our respective tracks. And to quote USN&WR? Forbes? Really? These sorts of rankings are absolute, total nonsense. You should know that at this point of the game. And even then, 10th best program in the midwest? Is that supposed to be impressive? 

 

On this subject, would a funded MA offer from UGA be better than a PhD offer from CUNY? Especially if UGA is particularly strong in my area?

[psstein]

14 minutes ago, Basura said:

On this subject, would a funded MA offer from UGA be better than a PhD offer from CUNY? Especially if UGA is particularly strong in my area?

Depends on your area: CUNY is a good, not great grad program in a very expensive place to live.

A funded MA is almost unheard of in history.

[TMP]

2 hours ago, Basura said:

On this subject, would a funded MA offer from UGA be better than a PhD offer from CUNY? Especially if UGA is particularly strong in my area?

I'd take CUNY if the offer is funded (which I understand is a good package) over a UGA master's.  Why else would you apply to CUNY for PhD? I would hope that you gave your application to each PhD program a careful thought that you would go there if it was the only PhD option before moving to the MA programs.

[TMP]

8 hours ago, psstein said:

Two things here:

1. Not all Ivy league programs are created equal. Michigan/Berkeley/Wisconsin do better in placement than Penn/Cornell/Brown. It's not that the programs provide excellent training, though some of them do. The programs have access to resources that most of us could only dream of. Harvard/Princeton are wealthier than God. That means that they can afford to bring in visiting scholars on a weekly or biweekly basis (we do it about once a month here in Wisconsin). That means less teaching, which often leads to faster dissertation completion. It means access to rare books on campus, rather than going to research libraries like the Newberry. It means money for expenses that other universities wouldn't dream of covering. Hopkins HoS told me that they'd give me a yearly sum just for books and conference travel; I had to use it all in one year, because it didn't roll over to the next.

2. Yes, to some degree. People with a Harvard PhD are allowed to screw up a lot more than people with a UVA PhD. One scholar with a Berkeley PhD was notoriously difficult to get along with and arrogant. He produced a technically sloppy work that was well received for its analysis of a famous scientist's social networks, then engaged in a vicious debate with a reviewer. He received tenure at Harvard, but by the end of his time there (he now teaches on the W. Coast), he had managed to alienate a significant proportion of the field. 

I'll agree with @psstein.  It really comes down to resources, quality of dissertation, and the student's willingness not to take anything for granted.  I truly stress that because the student's attitude and approach to the resources available at his/her university matter.  If students are in a state of mind of knowing that although resources are there at the moment, they can suddenly not be available due to a donor forgetting to write the check for next year or state budget crisis forcing the university to cut the department's budget that might mean cutting that fellowship for a writing semester or the Fed decided not to grant FLAS to one of the area centers at the university or any other possible reason.  With the landscape of declining funds in the public arena, there is an incentive to find scholars who know how to find funds and write outstanding grant applications (thus able to continue research if the university's going through a rough time).  To do that, one must be able to mold the dissertation in multiple ways to appeal to a broad audience.

Ivy League students do have the benefit of having visiting scholars but the question is, do they take advantage of the time with the scholar to network and pick their brains for ideas and insights in their research questions and projects?

[anon1234567]

6 hours ago, Basura said:

On this subject, would a funded MA offer from UGA be better than a PhD offer from CUNY? Especially if UGA is particularly strong in my area?

Not sure how those programs compare but keep in mind New York City attracts top scholars on weekly, if not on daily, basis. And you’ll be a part of the greater NYC consortium, Columbia-NYU-CUNY. That has a big payoff. 

We had a course offered last fall that was structured on bringing in a new scholar every week to lecture to us on a relevant topic to the discussion, which included the scholar’s own work. Basically a private workshop. Scholars from Penn, Brown, Harvard, and MIT. 

And if it isn’t Columbia or NYU inviting or hosting weekly scholars or workshops, it is scholarly societies that are based in New York doing it.

[anon1234567]

I had another course that included bringing in a scholar in residence from England to work with students, and consult privately on projects. This course also invited biweekly lectures from visiting scholars from the chemical heritage foundation, Hopkins, and Indiana-Bloomington. As a consotrium member you can take those courses. 

Most importantly, NYC has archives! Aside from the NY public library, Columbia has extensive archives, including the Butler library (rare books, and we just acquired medieval Islamic texts), Harriman institute, etc. All on campus.

NYU has impressive archives (Fales Library and special collections). And very accessible. There is the New York historical society archives, I think hosted at NYU library as well. 

There are special grants that only consortium grad students are elibgible for, but some of those maybe just open to Columbia and NYU grad students for now. 

In your decisions, the NYC consortium should not be taken lightly.

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by anon1234567

[OHSP]

8 hours ago, Basura said:

On this subject, would a funded MA offer from UGA be better than a PhD offer from CUNY? Especially if UGA is particularly strong in my area?

I second @anon1234567--being in nyc means having access to vast resources/networks and that's invaluable. The faculty at CUNY grad centre (across departments) is also impressive--I'm at NYU but go to grad centre events/workshops etc pretty frequently and work with someone in the history department. People will warn you about the money and the cost of NYC etc, but I'm an international student (so my stipend is taxed upfront), so week to week I'm living on just under the CUNY fellowship and it's completely liveable. Obviously you won't be living in the village but I'm 30 minutes from school on the subway. There are difficult things about living in nyc but it's not as super expensive as people (usually people who've never lived in NYC) led me to believe before I moved here. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the consortium, CUNY, NYU, nyc archives etc

Edited February 11, 2018 by OHSP

[gsc]

6 hours ago, TMP said:

I'd take CUNY if the offer is funded (which I understand is a good package) over a UGA master's.  Why else would you apply to CUNY for PhD? I would hope that you gave your application to each PhD program a careful thought that you would go there if it was the only PhD option before moving to the MA programs.

Relatedly, if you turn down CUNY now, it is very unlikely you would get another acceptance there in two years' time. 

[Qtf311]

The NYC consortium is one of the major reasons why I am moving back to NY for grad school.  My POIs are also very high on the program.  Can anyone share any experiences with it? Positive or negative?  Or just general thoughts on it?  I’m really looking forward to taking advantage of it.

[Guest1101]

15 minutes ago, Qtf311 said:

The NYC consortium is one of the major reasons why I am moving back to NY for grad school.  My POIs are also very high on the program.  Can anyone share any experiences with it? Positive or negative?  Or just general thoughts on it?  I’m really looking forward to taking advantage of it.

I also would like to hear some experience! My POI from Stony Brook also said that SBU has an advantage of being in the NYC consortium. As an international applicant, I am not sure if it is possible to travel from SBU to NYC to take courses, attend seminars, or make use of the archives? Does anyone have the similar experience? Thanks!