Sherrinford

If you want my opinion, you don't need a Masters. There are different pros to getting one, but there are cons too. In some cases, it can even hurt you because some programs prefer to take undergrads. You have entry level research experience which is enough to get a lot of RA jobs/volunteering opportunities. A lot of getting into a research lab is just timing. In my opinion, if moving is an option, try to move to a place that has research labs available that you can apply to. Take at least a year to really solidify some research experience in a specific sector that you're interested in (e.g. anxiety, psychotic disorders). The more specific your research focus can be, the better. Being a little general/flexible is not bad either, but too general or too many interests will not really help you. When you apply to research labs in PhD programs, you're applying for usually very specific research focii (is that a word?). You need to retake the GREs though, that math score is terrible. You will want at least a 160 in Verbal, and a Math around a 157. Take the extra year to do more research, maybe some clinical volunteering on the side, and study for the GREs. Also use this as an opportunity to decide whether a PhD is really for you (they are heavily research degrees and a big commitment so really decide this is what you want to pursue). Best of luck. S

4 times? I have to say I'm a bit surprised given your stats and the research experience you have. 1. GREs. The top programs may have high cut-offs. If you've already applied 4 times, why NOT take the GRE again especially as you've devoted so much time towards this. Aim for at least 160 on Verbal. Math is a little less important but don't go below a 156. 2. Your Personal Statement...INCREDIBLY important. Talk to your PIs, psychology professors you like, your mentors. They are the people who know you and can give you good feedback on your statement. On that note: 3. Letters of rec. Do you have 3 solid writers? Or at least two really good ones that can attest to your research ability? 4. This in my opinion is the most important thing and where a lot of great applicants mess up. Are the experiences and skills you have, as well as your specific goals/interests, directly relevant to the research lab you are applying to? The better fit you are for a specific lab, the higher the chance you'll get an interview or ultimately get in. Apply smart! Quality over quantity in terms of apps. I hope any of this has been helpful for you.

The 6th year doctoral students in my program feel the same anxiety. "Impostor syndrome" is unfortunately something common in research and academia in psych, largely due to the competitive and scholarly requirements of grad programs. But chances are you've already faced (or are facing) your demons in order to pursue your passion. Remind yourself of the progress you've already made, rather than getting disoriented by how far you have left to go. It's the little victories and milestones that give you the strength to keep going. A regular system of self-care such as therapy, exercise, friends/family, and Twilight Zone reruns will go a long way in buffering you against the stressors of the program. Finally, don't be afraid to ask for help. You of all people (a student of psychology/social work) should understand the importance of taking care of yourself!

The greater emphasis on research does not necessarily mean the quality of breadth of clinical training is reduced (I would look into APPIC match statistics to get an idea). Additionally, look into the clinical handbooks for some PhD programs if you have doubts about the clinical training you would receive. There is nothing wrong with wanting to go into a practice-oriented career. However, if your hesitancy to go the PhD route is due to worries about the depth of clinical training or focus on research, I think it would behoove you to gather more information, talk to those in both kinds of programs, as well as examine statistics so that you are as informed as possible before making a 5-6 year commitment (especially as one of the options is associated with significant amounts of debt). If you were completely averse to research, my advice might have been different. But as you do have some research experience and are open to further research, I don't think you should discount clinical PhDs as they would still very well prepare you for a career in clinical practice (and likely save you from monumental debt). Having said that, there are great PsyDs out there that have very good reputations and provide decent funding (relative to many PsyDs). Rutgers and Baylor College to name a few.

If funding is important to you, be aware that very few PsyD programs offer full funding for their students. You should do some research into the average debt for the PsyD program you look into as well. I would also be curious on why you would prefer to pursue a PsyD as opposed to a PhD, especially as you are open to taking time to acquire more research experience before applying to programs. You already have research experience and could no doubt get further experience before 2019 obtaining more relevant LORs as well. Forums such as these are a good source of information. There's another one called studentdoctorforums you may want to look into. I also suggest going through this PDF: http://mitch.web.unc.edu/files/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf One last thing I will say is that most people who complete clinical psych PhDs end up going into practice (despite it being a research-oriented degree).

Well, first of all, you have a lot of great experience and you shouldn't undermine that. I've found that while ideally your research experience would be a good match with whatever labs/schools you apply to, it is not necessarily a hindrance if it does not match. What is more important is the quality of your experiences wherever you did work. What kind of things did you do there? How much responsibility did you have? What skills did you acquire? Did you present work or create posters? Are your recommendations solid? Etc. Do you have any mentors you could talk to for advice? Or maybe anyone in school psych who you could ask? Depending on the expectations of the programs you apply to, it might be worth applying. But if your timeline isn't stringent, taking another year to accumulate more experience and really hone down on your specific goals and interests is a solid backup plan.

I do not know about that specific program, but if it's anything like Columbia's clinical psychology Masters program (through Teacher's College), it is a very expensive Masters without much funding. It is a good program but just a costly one and not something I would necessarily recommend. Have you considered applying to doctoral programs in the US? Finally, just wanted to say that your story is quite inspiring. Even after such a huge shakeup in your life, you were able to recover and continue working towards your long term passions. I have no doubt you'll get there, I think it's just a matter of figuring out the most effective/pragmatic way of reaching it.

Research experience is one of the most important (if not the most important) things you will need to be accepted into a funded program.You can certainly volunteer in a lab without being a student, however your lack of experience might make it difficult. I would make my suggestions based on how certain you are that a career in psychology is what you want to pursue. If you are very serious, you should consider doing a Masters in Psych (one that has an experimental thesis requirement ideally). It is not necessary, but it will give you time to prove you can handle graduate level psych coursework, get involved in research, do a thesis, get letters of rec, and just develop a better sense of what you want to study/research. If you choose to go this route, I would do some research into the average debts incurred by programs such as NYU and Columbia. Great programs, but quite expensive and not necessary for pursuing a PhD when you can attend a different institution and still get quality research experience. If you are not sure about psychology or research, perhaps just look into trying to get research experience. Email different research labs, explain your situation and be sincere, maybe you can get your foot in somewhere. Maybe you can take some post-Bach classes in psych to show you can do the work. Then once you're involved in research, you can see if you really like it and continue developing experience to apply to programs.

It's a tough situation, you did what was best for your career and made a hard choice. I will say that there is no guarantee you would have been happier in a program that wasn't as good a fit as this one, even if you were closer to your friends/support. On one hand, it is easier to find new support and make new friends than it is to be happy/content in a program you don't feel is a good fit. It does sound like you're really stressed though. Perhaps this is a crazy suggestion, but have you considered seeing a therapist? Many psychology grad students do so as the program is quite intense and stress-provoking. It could help you organize what you're feeling.

It's tough to say. You have a lot of good questions and it's great that you're really thinking about your future. I think something that would help is to talk to some psychology professors at your university (which I'm sure you're aware is one of the top research schools in the country) and also talk to the admissions person to get their opinion on your situation. You could tell them your ultimate career goals and your current experience, and they could make suggestions on how you should proceed. Before committing or applying to any kind of program, you should use this time to explore what your specific career goals are, what routes are available, and whether you enjoy research or not. Another note, the majority of funded clinical psych doctoral programs (and many Counseling PhDs) will emphasize research (and thus having research experience is important for admittance). That is not to say that the clinical training you'd receive at such programs would be lacking or diminished in any way. I believe the statistic is that somewhere around 70% of people in clinical psych PhDs go on to do clinical work rather than pursue research careers.

Clinical psych PhDs? I would imagine they still had a good deal of research experience that they obtained either during the bachelors or post-Bach.

I'm not really sure, it really depends on what your career goals are. I am not sure it would be worth it unless you want to pursue research in psychology that's relevant to speech pathology. On the other hand, a Master's thesis is a great way to demonstrate you can design, collect, and analyze data on a research project. It's hard to give you advice because you don't seem very certain about what specific goal to pursue. I was in a slightly similar situation when I finished my Bachelors (Psych), I was uncertain what kind of career I wanted. I pursued a Masters degree (Psych) and got involved in research and honed my specific interests before applying to doctoral programs. Clinical psychology doctoral programs are very, very competitive. You should do some research on your own and maybe looking through forum posts to get an idea of what the degree involves, the kind of work you can do, the average credentials of admitted applicants etc. Here's a starting point: http://mitch.web.unc.edu/files/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf

I can't answer all your questions, but having quality research experience is absolutely a requirement for funded clinical psych PhD programs. If you just want to do therapy and work with clients, you could go for a PsyD but you would be likely taking out significant loans to be able to attend. If your end goal is practice, there could be cheaper and quicker routes (such as an MSW or other counseling degrees). A PhD is a research degree and that is what you'll be doing a lot of in a doctoral program. I would urge you to try to gain research experience not only because it will be beneficial when you apply to programs, but also just to see if it's work that you enjoy and can see yourself doing.

If your end goal is pursuing a clinical psychology PhD or any kind of career in a research, I think this would be a great opportunity for you. However, it would be best to get involved in research that is relevant to your longer term interests. Usually schools allow you to work at other labs for your thesis if it is a better fit. Have you looked at other research labs you could work in? Maybe talk to your academic adviser and see if it is possible. If it isn't, and your option is to either do the thesis or not do it, I would suggest doing the thesis because being able to say you conducted your own research and did the analysis and wrote-it up is great. My MA thesis wasn't exactly related to what I want to study in my doctorate, but it was pretty close. Being able to match my own research experience with the labs I applied to for my doctorate was a very important aspect of the application process. One thing, I did have a bunch of research experience that wasn't related to what I wanted to pursue. When talking about it in my personal statement, I tried to find common ground and talk about what kind of skills I gained and lessons I learned that helped me continue to develop my research interests/goals. So if you do decide to work in that research lab, bear in mind that you will have to be able to do this as well. You're not in NY are you? That lab you want to work in...would coincidentally be a great fit for my interests, haha.

Bumping this thread as I will be a grad student starting in the Fall. Looking for an apartment with a lease that would start August, or July at the earliest. It has been tough...I really want to live alone (so a 1 bedroom). My budget is $800 a month including utilities and everything. Anyone have any leads? Haha.

One has a world renown reputation, the other is lesser known. Both have amazing research faculty doing great work. The one caveat about TC Is that you do pay for the name and you should do some Math to calculate how much the degree would cost. If the financial aspect isn't an issue for you, I would decide which school to apply to based on which faculty members you'd like to do research with (although it is possible to do research at a different school from the one you are attending). I have several friends who've gone to both schools, who've gone on to enter funded clinical psych programs.

Thank you very much guys! This forum has been a great hub of emotional support for this very TRYING process.

I thought it was all done and dusted and I was prepared to apply again this Fall, but I got accepted into my top choice (Binghamton U.) off the waitlist. I wish the best of luck to everyone here!

It sounds like you had an internal battle of values and one side won over. You realized a good fit and being closer to family are more important than the finances. I don't see anything wrong with this. In fact, it's great that you were able to make a decision based on your own intuition and judgment. It's not like you'll be taking on 100k more in loans or something at ASU (at least not based on what you said). Although it's scary and you worry that you may have made the wrong choice, at this point it is best to go forward with the choice you made for better or for worse. You'll make it work.

Realistically, I would say it would be very difficult for you because of 2 factors. Your GPA and the fact that you are geographically limited to Canada. While it isn't impossible, it will be tough due to the sheer nature of how competitive programs are. That's the hard part but you do have options. I was in the same boat except I had much less research experience than you out of undergrad. Doing a Masters in Clinical Psych made sense because I could prove that I can handle graduate level coursework (I obtained a near 4.0 GPA) while giving me many opportunities to get involved with research. While I was not admitted into a program this cycle, I did get a number of interviews so it was definitely a good decision for me personally to have gotten my MA. Still, most MA programs are not funded so that might be a challenge. There may be alternatives, can you take additional coursework at your school to help raise your GPA? That may be tough as your cumulative is rather low. Talking to your mentors is a good idea about what the best course of action would be. Having said that, the positive is that outside of GPA, everything you're doing/have done is fantastic in terms of the research experience. I have no doubt that you will eventually get admitted into a program.

Thank you so much! I absolutely did, hopefully the outcome is different next time haha.

Well, just got rejected (was on the waitlist) by my last school. Guess it means one of the people offered admission accepted. At least this horrific process is over for now and I have a few months reprieve before beginning it all again.

Yup to the former. I emailed my POI and he told me that I was on the waitlist but that it wasn't very long and encouraged me to wait if I was still interested in the program.

Thank you! All I was told was that they generally let people know at the end of February...which is why it's kind of weird. I'm nervous about emailing for an update as I certainly don't want to put on pressure or anything like that. Though maybe I should...

Not been told I'm on any waitlist, but I just haven't heard at all from a couple of the programs I interviewed at. I'm confused because I thought they would have at least outright rejected me by now. Be honest, is there any hope at all? I've essentially resigned myself irregardless.